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Habs Clean house. Bergevin, Timmins, Wilson Terminated


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New Contract?  

13 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you feel MB deserves a new contract?

    • Yes,,, he's earned it.
      1
    • Absolutely not,,, he hasn't earned it.
      11
    • Undecided
      1

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2 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

As I've said, I like Madden Jr. the most of rumored candidates, but my feeling is that they'll likely put someone in place who is less experienced and will take orders from Gorton. I don't think Gorton was brought in to be a figurehead, he was brought in for his expertise at rebuilding. So to me, someone like Darche or Lapointe fits the bill of being the spokesperson for the front office without necessarily challenging Gorton for top billing on how to build the team. Martin Brodeur could be an option too, in addition to Roberto Luongo and then there's also Daniel Dore, who has ties to Gorton and could be moved to a GM role from a scouting role.

I think this is Molson's way of getting the best GM he could find (Gorton) while having a french figure head called the GM.

We're looking at the Wizard of Oz here.

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2 hours ago, CANADIENS27 said:

What took Molson so long?  

I suspect they wanted to wait till the summer but with things being this bad they had to finally make a move. 

21 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

As I've said, I like Madden Jr. the most of rumored candidates, but my feeling is that they'll likely put someone in place who is less experienced and will take orders from Gorton. I don't think Gorton was brought in to be a figurehead, he was brought in for his expertise at rebuilding. So to me, someone like Darche or Lapointe fits the bill of being the spokesperson for the front office without necessarily challenging Gorton for top billing on how to build the team. Martin Brodeur could be an option too, in addition to Roberto Luongo and then there's also Daniel Dore, who has ties to Gorton and could be moved to a GM role from a scouting role.

For sure. And there's a lot that falls under a GM's duties, its entirely possible Gorton doesnt do (or doesnt like to do) one aspect of that well (contracts for example) and wants a Gm to handle most of that stuff.

 

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6 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

I think people underestimate the odds of Roy being named. He has already met with Molson 2 or 3 times and made it known he was looking to return to the NHL as a coach or GM. 

I never thought I'd be into Patrick as a coach here, but I'd take him. He'd be better than Ducharme and might be good at coaching a rebuilding club.

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1 minute ago, campabee82 said:

I think people underestimate the odds of Roy being named. He has already met with Molson 2 or 3 times and made it known he was looking to return to the NHL as a coach or GM. 

The way he left Colorado may not support that point of view. He certainly left the impression that he wanted full control of day to day operations. I could live with giving Roy a look as a replacement coach for DD personally. The year is pretty much shot so there's not much to lose. Not sure i feel the same way about the GM position.

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2 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

As I've said, I like Madden Jr. the most of rumored candidates, but my feeling is that they'll likely put someone in place who is less experienced and will take orders from Gorton. I don't think Gorton was brought in to be a figurehead, he was brought in for his expertise at rebuilding. So to me, someone like Darche or Lapointe fits the bill of being the spokesperson for the front office without necessarily challenging Gorton for top billing on how to build the team. Martin Brodeur could be an option too, in addition to Roberto Luongo and then there's also Daniel Dore, who has ties to Gorton and could be moved to a GM role from a scouting role.

I like those options except For Brodeur  - if the rules of engagement are that Gorton has the ultimate hammer over Roy, I would certainly entertain Patrick as the key words that Molson is using in his presser is that the two of them - Gorton and the GM have to be aligned on the accountability and recommendations to be made on improving the organization. The two heads better than one.... It would not surprise me if it is Roy. 

After how Brodeur impeded and kept Binnington from the Blues buried in the minors, IMO based on that, he is chit on development and player evaluation. I know that's only 1 personal reflection of insider knowledge, but Brodeur doesn't do it for me whatsoever and has zero continuity or experience.  

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24 minutes ago, claremont said:

I like those options except For Brodeur  - if the rules of engagement are that Gorton has the ultimate hammer over Roy, I would certainly entertain Patrick as the key words that Molson is using in his presser is that the two of them - Gorton and the GM have to be aligned on the accountability and recommendations to be made on improving the organization. The two heads better than one.... It would not surprise me if it is Roy. 

After how Brodeur impeded and kept Binnington from the Blues buried in the minors, IMO based on that, he is chit on development and player evaluation. I know that's only 1 personal reflection of insider knowledge, but Brodeur doesn't do it for me whatsoever and has zero continuity or experience.  

If Roy isn't the big dog it would just cause issues, look what happened in Colorado?  He wants to call the shots and his ego would allow nothing else.  Having Roy as GM under Gorton is a recipe for disaster

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10 minutes ago, habsisme said:

Given Molson's comments (and I don't think he's doing it now). Who would be a visible minority or a woman who spoke french who could do the GM job?

I listed a couple of names earlier but there are about 3 or 4 women who have been involved in Hockey Canada that would probably do an admirable job. certainly more qualified than some of the (male) names being thrown around. 

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1 minute ago, maas_art said:

I listed a couple of names earlier but there are about 3 or 4 women who have been involved in Hockey Canada that would probably do an admirable job. certainly more qualified than some of the (male) names being thrown around. 

someone on radio suggested if not a female GM an assistant female GM. Personally, especially at least the assistant position, I would like to see a minority candidate. someoone we could groom for the job (or given the opportunity)

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14 minutes ago, maas_art said:
 
Interesting. i wouldnt have thought Briere would rank that highly.  2 years of management, all in the ECHL... unless he's indeed being hired to be a figure head/mouthpiece for Gorton. 

Yes, but despite what Molson says publicly, my feeling is that they're looking for a GM with limited powers. An inexperienced person would take that opportunity, an experienced one with better qualifications might not want to and may wait for a better opportunity with more control.

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Molson said the next general of the Canadiens, who the team said Sunday must be able to communicate in both English and French, could potentially have no previous experience as a general manager in the NHL. He noted that Bergevin had not previously held the title of general manager when he was hired in 2012.

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Montreal Canadiens president, CEO and co-owner Geoff Molson confirmed Monday that newly hired executive vice president of hockey operations Jeff Gorton has signed a long-term deal with the franchise. 

Molson said Gorton will work in tandem with a yet-to-be-hired general manager to guide the organization after general manager Marc Bergevin was fired on Sunday. He noted it will be among the responsibilities of the duo to handle all decisions regarding the team's coaching staff.

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Lol really not loving all the talk about a diversity hire, for the sake of diversity. 
lol we can’t afford to take a chance on Roy due to the importance of this position, just can’t risk it. But heck, why not try something even riskier, with someone even less qualified, because diversity… 

Don’t get me wrong, Gorton already has the position that I thought best suited Roy, so I’m not exactly pulling for him at this point. But I’ll be super darn disappointed if we go this direction instead…

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I strongly feel Gorton is the GM in all but name and whatever bilingual person they hire will only have the menial duties of a GM.     This is Molson's way of picking "the best candidate" without limiting himself to the bilingual requirement.   It's so transparent its laughable almost.   

 

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6 minutes ago, AH64 said:

As for Roy and what happened in colorado he wanted duchene out and sakic wanted to keep him and look at what ended up happening Roy was right. i think Roy would be fantastic for the organization. 

Except that Duchene turned into:  Bowen Byram, Kyle Turris, Andrew Hammond, Shane Bowers & Matt Stienburg.... so keeping him for a little longer wasnt the worst idea ;) 

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2 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Yes, but despite what Molson says publicly, my feeling is that they're looking for a GM with limited powers. An inexperienced person would take that opportunity, an experienced one with better qualifications might not want to and may wait for a better opportunity with more control.

5 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

I strongly feel Gorton is the GM in all but name and whatever bilingual person they hire will only have the menial duties of a GM.     This is Molson's way of picking "the best candidate" without limiting himself to the bilingual requirement.   It's so transparent its laughable almost.   

You both may be quite correct - my 35 years plus of management experience has taught me that there can only be 1 "ultimate rooster in the henhouse". The question becomes is that Molson as chair that decides upon a collision of directions in this duopoly of Gorton and the new GM where the 2 heads can't align and agree, or is it Gorton?. Is Roy or another candidate smart enough to swallow some pride, and if the GM finds an issue of disagreement, then Molson has to choose one and start over. I don't know enough about Gorton's ego but human nature is that he will hire someone who is not an immediate threat or bombastic. In Mgmt. theory, one should always hire a junior who offers outlets of intelligence that are smarter than their manager. It's the only way an organization gets better and gets leverage. Most Managers will hire development personnel out of egotistical protection ("Don't outshine the boss" syndrome). It's absolutely stupid behaviour and prehistoric thinking. Whoever the GM is, will be forced to prove their mettle that they are not a puppet from the get go, so they had better hire someone with character from the outset. 

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you would think Gorton is intelligent enough that he wouldn't  take he job if he's going to be Molson's puppet .

Like wise the so called next GM they hire probably wouldn't take the job if he doesn't have full autonomy to do the job  

I guess it all depends what everyone's role , responsibilities , reporting structure are 

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In today's presser, Molson referenced 5 years of drafting and 45 players with another 11 on the way. Clearly Molson seems to be disappointed on the development curve much like most of us, so I suspect Gorton's first priority will be to stockpile some picks, build thru the draft, and ensure the prospect pool is managed properly. This quote may be a good sign of the preliminary discussions and directions with Gorton on first review, and that seems to be his prior modus operandi.

Of the 5 years and 45, the only ones of note in my analysis are

 2017 - only 3 of 7 - Poehling, injured Josh Brook, Primeau,  2018) - 11 picks - may have only struck on 4 - KK was moved for Dvorak - probably a downgrade based on potential of a 3rd overall pick, Ylonen TBD, Romanov a starter, jury out on Jordan Harris as to whether we can sign him - the rest are unlikely 2019) 10 picks - struck on 2-3 plus a longshot - Caufield, Norlinder, Struble - longshot is Harvey-Pinard 2020) 8 picks - maybe 3 - Guhle, Mysak, Farrell - Tuch was injured 2021) 9 picks - too early - Mailloux debacle, Kidney and Simoneau - small - Joshua Roy looks like a steal

in "Ted Fashion" (meant as an analysis compliment), I looked at Gorton's draft history 

2006 Bruins - he had a steal of a draft - Kessel, Marchand, Lucic - one college kid in Kessel, 1 nameless Russian, and the other 4 picks were from the Q and WHL

2016 - NYR - 6 picks but nothing in the first 2 rounds and nothing panned out - he was dealt this hand

2017 NYR - 2 first rounders 7 & 21 - Filip Chytil only one of note - most players Euro or CHL

2018 - NYR - 3 first rounders -  K'Andre Miller from USNDTP and Russian Kravtsov is a work in process - nothing spectacular but again mostly euros and CHL

2019 - NYR - 2nd overall - Kakko, first time he took 2 players from USHL program

2020 - NYR - 2 first rounders - Lafraniere and Braden Schneider, and 2nd round Will Cuyle (who I think will be good). Again most players from CHL 

2021 - He didn't run this draft as he was fired in May - Nothing notable

My takeaways from this brief analysis - 1) He will acquire top draft picks and try to get multiple first rounders 2) Tendency to draft from the CHL leagues of the OHL, WHL QMJHL and the USHL - seems to shy from those going the college route with exception of K'Andre Miller but he got him out of Wisconsin early. 

I did not go into trade history but Gorton acquired Coyotes first rounder and the infamous Tony Deangelo for Derek Stepan and Anti Raanta - so he's not afraid to go after another team's prospects. Gorton had a short fuse when it came to Deangelo's on ice behaviour. 

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