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So, I personally can't detect a system can anyone else? why on earth is this guy still here? the man who hired him should be fired not just for this but this alone would be enough on most teams! The players we have did not just forget how to play! and while we may not be a powerhouse team we are far better than this even with Price and Webber out! I would have thought we would play for under 500 but this is sad!

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What I heard on a radio talk station

Probably because if they get rid of him they would be paying 3 guys (  DD, CJ and whomever they hire ) 

And if MB isn't  coming  back the new GM would want to hire his own guy as coach  so it would be a real messy situation 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

What I heard on a radio talk station

Probably because if they get rid of him they would be paying 3 guys (  DD, CJ and whomever they hire ) 

And if MB isn't  coming  back the new GM would want to hire his own guy as coach  so it would be a real messy situation 

 

 

I don't understand that reasoning. Fire MB and appoint Timmins interim GM then fire DD and do the same with either Richardson or Burrows,,,, oh wait,,,, the French thing and not  offending Legault is more important.:rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, H_T_L said:

I don't understand that reasoning. Fire MB and appoint Timmins interim GM then fire DD and do the same with either Richardson or Burrows,,,, oh wait,,,, the French thing and not  offending Legault is more important.:rolleyes:

This is it in a nutshell. 

The team needs a shakeup. You do that one of two ways: you make a trade or you change coaches.   I dont think we should be making crazy trades right now. Let the new GM mold the team the way he wants to.    Interim positions make sense right now but, as you said, that would upset the media.

I still wonder if Julien would come back since he's still getting paid... 

 

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

This is it in a nutshell. 

The team needs a shakeup. You do that one of two ways: you make a trade or you change coaches.   I dont think we should be making crazy trades right now. Let the new GM mold the team the way he wants to.    Interim positions make sense right now but, as you said, that would upset the media.

I still wonder if Julien would come back since he's still getting paid... 

 

Julien has just been hired to lead the Sprengler Cup staff.

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The players are not idiots they have been in this sport as long as they have been alive for the most part so when they get a wingnut for a coach they just tune out. they don't want to lose per say but after giving it a go with a coach if it is not working they start tuning him out, it is over for DD even if the team picks it up a bit we are toast for this year so we are going to need someone to guide us to a new future whatever that may be and it sure as hell is not MB or DD! I have always found that Timmins was a fair judge of talent but he seems to like the underdog type players rather than the sure thing types in the draft and we have had a couple of steals but right now we need to get some real all around talent in the wings so he can go too! This team has been treading water since the early 80's really we have had a couple of cups since then but nothing consistent the 86 cup was some of the old guard from the 70's mixed with some great youth and Roy and the 93 cup was a bit of the same some old gaurd with some youth mixed with a couple of good trades after that it all went to hell! Corey fired Savard who probably would have made the moves to get the team on track the he hired two former players who just did not have the chops to get the job done! We have not had the right people in place since then and until we do we are toast! it is as simple as that. how can a GM not be able to understand what is missing from his D corps for as long as MB has? he was a Dman! what the hell! and even if his view of what makes a good D corps was wrong how can he not have figured it out by now! MB's list of huge failures is insane! he gets rid of the entire LHD Marky Emelin and Beau and replaces them with Alzner! huge fail! with that he wasted years of prime Price and Webber! he played hardball with Marky and Radulov who went on to have many more great years in Dallas heck he is still playing there now! it just goes on and on! for every great move he makes he seems to make two bad ones! enough is enough! get rid of this clown and his gang of merry men and lets get some real hockey people running this team asap it is criminal to take the greatest team in the sport and tarnish it so badly! I think that Molson cares deeply about this team his family had it for a long time and he grew up seeing the team win he knows what it feels like and what it means to people I truly hope he gets this done if not sell it.

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9 hours ago, H_T_L said:

I don't understand that reasoning. Fire MB and appoint Timmins interim GM then fire DD and do the same with either Richardson or Burrows,,,, oh wait,,,, the French thing and not  offending Legault is more important.:rolleyes:

Tony Marinaro went on radio today and might be the first media member to openly call out the Habs for their pro-French stance. He said outright that Cedric Paquette is not an NHL player and wouldn't be here if he wasn't Francophone. He added that "we're run by a guy from Quebec and we have the most Quebecers in the entire league and look where that's gotten us, 3rd worst in the entire league behind an expansion team."

I don't think it's as black and white as that. Drouin is a player I like and one who brings an element we don't get from anyone else. Danault was a good player when he was here. But yeah, Marinaro is bang on when he implies the Habs have reached on the rest... Savard has played like garbage all year and hasn't seen any repercussions for it. Perreault had one good game and that's it. Paquette shouldn't be in the NHL. Montembeault played a good game recently but doesn't look NHL-quality right now either. If the Habs had Lafreneiere, I'm all for it. But if they think Danault or Desharnais is a 1C or that Perreault is a 3C, then they're dreaming and overrating players for no reason.

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

Tony Marinaro went on radio today and might be the first media member to openly call out the Habs for their pro-French stance. He said outright that Cedric Paquette is not an NHL player and wouldn't be here if he wasn't Francophone. He added that "we're run by a guy from Quebec and we have the most Quebecers in the entire league and look where that's gotten us, 3rd worst in the entire league behind an expansion team."

I don't think it's as black and white as that. Drouin is a player I like and one who brings an element we don't get from anyone else. Danault was a good player when he was here. But yeah, Marinaro is bang on when he implies the Habs have reached on the rest... Savard has played like garbage all year and hasn't seen any repercussions for it. Perreault had one good game and that's it. Paquette shouldn't be in the NHL. Montembeault played a good game recently but doesn't look NHL-quality right now either. If the Habs had Lafreneiere, I'm all for it. But if they think Danault or Desharnais is a 1C or that Perreault is a 3C, then they're dreaming and overrating players for no reason.

It starts with MB who likes to tell everyone that he was a journeyman defensman - but he also likes remind people that he played next to Al Macinnis when he won his norris.   This is his philosophy to a T.  Players are interchangeable.  Its why he's always seen quantity over quality.   Petry, Edmundson, Chairot, Wideman, Romanov, Kulak - yes, even Savard - are all NHL defensmen. It doenst matter to MB that none except Petry are true top 4.  He's got 7 or 8 guys that are all top 6, so we'll just throw them out there & it will sort itself out.

I think every member of habs brass deserves criticism at this point.

Molson is the only person who can fire MB but has essentially gone into hiding.

Mb built this horror show of a team and while we cant really fault him for Price or Edmundson being out, this team was not good enough - even if they hadnt missed any games.  He knew Weber was gone & replaced him with Savard who has played like hot garbage.  He watched Danault walk & replaced him with Pacquette Calling his play hot garbage would be an insult to garbage.  The JK offer sheet was unexpected (and frankly i dont fault him for not matching) but Dvorak is not a replacement for a top 6 centre, that appears to be clear.   This team is totally MB's fault.

And that brings us to Ducharme. I am sure he is a nice guy. I am sure he is losing tons of sleep right now. I wouldnt be surprised it one day he shows up & his thick head of hair starts to look more like Julien or Therriens's   But he's in so far over his head now i feel sorry for him.  I just dont understand how he still has a job.  I know firing him likely wont make any real difference but keeping him in just makes Brendan Gallagher look more sad every time i see him after a game.  

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14 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Tony Marinaro went on radio today and might be the first media member to openly call out the Habs for their pro-French stance. He said outright that Cedric Paquette is not an NHL player and wouldn't be here if he wasn't Francophone. He added that "we're run by a guy from Quebec and we have the most Quebecers in the entire league and look where that's gotten us, 3rd worst in the entire league behind an expansion team."

I don't think it's as black and white as that. Drouin is a player I like and one who brings an element we don't get from anyone else. Danault was a good player when he was here. But yeah, Marinaro is bang on when he implies the Habs have reached on the rest... Savard has played like garbage all year and hasn't seen any repercussions for it. Perreault had one good game and that's it. Paquette shouldn't be in the NHL. Montembeault played a good game recently but doesn't look NHL-quality right now either. If the Habs had Lafreneiere, I'm all for it. But if they think Danault or Desharnais is a 1C or that Perreault is a 3C, then they're dreaming and overrating players for no reason.

Good thing Legault has a development plan to get more Quebecers into the NHL. :lol: In 9-10 years maybe we'll have a glut of awesome Quebec-born players.

I agree, I'm all for having awesome French-speaking players on the team. I'm fine with the people at the top (President, General Manager, etc.) speaking French. I don't agree with having to hire a French-speaking coach or acquiring incredibly weak French-speaking players.

Reaching to acquire some of these guys has been terrible. You mentioned them all. Savard, Paquette, Montembeault, Perreault. None of these guys will help this organization get anywhere. Unless Bergevin is a genius and is attempting to get the first overall pick.

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1 hour ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Good thing Legault has a development plan to get more Quebecers into the NHL. :lol: In 9-10 years maybe we'll have a glut of awesome Quebec-born players.

I agree, I'm all for having awesome French-speaking players on the team. I'm fine with the people at the top (President, General Manager, etc.) speaking French. I don't agree with having to hire a French-speaking coach or acquiring incredibly weak French-speaking players.

Reaching to acquire some of these guys has been terrible. You mentioned them all. Savard, Paquette, Montembeault, Perreault. None of these guys will help this organization get anywhere. Unless Bergevin is a genius and is attempting to get the first overall pick.

I know who can impact the amount of French speaking players on the team and that person in not even in the Montreal Canadiens organization. The person who can drastically change the amount of French speaking players is none other than Legault himself!!! How you ask, what is the number one reason most UFA's do not sign in Quebec or Canada for that matter? Taxes, and who controls the tax rates the Premier's i.e. Legault! If he really wants an influx of Quebec players he needs to consider lowering the tax rate or finding some other way to alleviate it.

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It seems pretty obvious that he's in over his head and doesn't know what to do next. Without the leadership of Weber & Price and the play of both this team is lost. I completely understand the frustration and everyone wanting to get rid of the coach and GM. The only catch is, as hard as this is to watch does anyone really want a quality new coach to come in just as maybe Edmonson and Price are close to coming back? What happens when the new coach turns things around the team makes a run and then at least plays decent hockey and we look and play better but just miss the playoffs. Is that better than watching the new coach struggle and the team staying unorganized and staying in the bottom of the standings then actually having a shot at a great draft choice? I am one that always wants to win and am always hoping for the long shot or miracle run. This year though we are getting so far down and back..........well?  

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9 hours ago, campabee82 said:

I know who can impact the amount of French speaking players on the team and that person in not even in the Montreal Canadiens organization. The person who can drastically change the amount of French speaking players is none other than Legault himself!!! How you ask, what is the number one reason most UFA's do not sign in Quebec or Canada for that matter? Taxes, and who controls the tax rates the Premier's i.e. Legault! If he really wants an influx of Quebec players he needs to consider lowering the tax rate or finding some other way to alleviate it.

Nah, I'm not a fan of lowering taxes to entice rich athletes to play in Quebec. :lol: Maybe if Montreal didn't have to revenue share with other NHL teams it wouldn't be so bad. Other teams might not be able to push up against the cap as much and we'd have a small advantage in being able to spend to the cap as much as we wanted.

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27 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Nah, I'm not a fan of lowering taxes to entice rich athletes to play in Quebec. :lol: Maybe if Montreal didn't have to revenue share with other NHL teams it wouldn't be so bad. Other teams might not be able to push up against the cap as much and we'd have a small advantage in being able to spend to the cap as much as we wanted.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough  my point was that Legault has the power for the changes he is griping about. So he either needs to step up or shut up, preferably the later.

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  • H_T_L changed the title to Ducharme
16 hours ago, campabee82 said:

Maybe I wasn't clear enough  my point was that Legault has the power for the changes he is griping about. So he either needs to step up or shut up, preferably the later.

You were clear enough. I agree with your solution,  and I am not in Quebec. 

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20 hours ago, campabee82 said:

Maybe I wasn't clear enough  my point was that Legault has the power for the changes he is griping about. So he either needs to step up or shut up, preferably the later.

Gotcha gotcha! Even Legault couldn't withstand the political pressure he would receive from that type of legislation.

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On 11/26/2021 at 10:43 AM, campabee82 said:

I know who can impact the amount of French speaking players on the team and that person in not even in the Montreal Canadiens organization. The person who can drastically change the amount of French speaking players is none other than Legault himself!!! How you ask, what is the number one reason most UFA's do not sign in Quebec or Canada for that matter? Taxes, and who controls the tax rates the Premier's i.e. Legault! If he really wants an influx of Quebec players he needs to consider lowering the tax rate or finding some other way to alleviate it.

The "taxes" argument is overblown, see Allan Walsh (who should know) explain:

 

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35 minutes ago, Graeme-1 said:

The "taxes" argument is overblown, see Allan Walsh (who should know) explain:

 

Which is fine for Allan Walsh to say, but there have been players who have flat out said that taxes went into their decision on choosing places like Dallas, Tampa, etc. as places to play. I think both Radulov and Bergevin referenced that as one of the reasons Radulov opted for Dallas over Montreal given similar salaries but much higher take-home pay in Texas. If someone said to a player, here's a million dollars, you can keep 80% of it or here's a million dollars, you can keep 50% of it and get some financial advisors to pull off some fancy accounting maneuvers to bring it up to 75%. I think this statement over-estimates people wanting something simple as a set-up and not wanting to have to juggle money around and pay financial advisors when they can have the same or more by doing less work. Plus, you never know if governments will close loopholes like this at any moment. I'll trust what comes from players own mouths as their perception of taxes and how it influences them as opposed to what an agent thinks they could do in theory.

 

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

Which is fine for Allan Walsh to say, but there have been players who have flat out said that taxes went into their decision on choosing places like Dallas, Tampa, etc. as places to play. I think both Radulov and Bergevin referenced that as one of the reasons Radulov opted for Dallas over Montreal given similar salaries but much higher take-home pay in Texas. If someone said to a player, here's a million dollars, you can keep 80% of it or here's a million dollars, you can keep 50% of it and get some financial advisors to pull off some fancy accounting maneuvers to bring it up to 75%. I think this statement over-estimates people wanting something simple as a set-up and not wanting to have to juggle money around and pay financial advisors when they can have the same or more by doing less work. Plus, you never know if governments will close loopholes like this at any moment. I'll trust what comes from players own mouths as their perception of taxes and how it influences them as opposed to what an agent thinks they could do in theory.

 

I don't recall specific instances of players saying this (even with Radulov IIRC it was the media speculating taxes being the reason, but I could be wrong). In any case, even if there's a couple anecdotes, I haven't seen any sort of indication (player surveys, NHLPA pushing, etc) this is a widespread concern, and what's interesting about one of the bigger player agents saying this is agents are the ones advising their clients on which deals to take and are probably even more concerned with the raw financials than players (who can care more about the city, team quality, commitment to their current team, etc).  Now maybe Walsh is an outlier among agents thinking this way, or maybe he's being misleading in this tweet (although to what end, I'm not sure), but my instinct is to take this at face-value.

On the other points:

  1. US top tax bracket, including medicare, is around 40%, even without state taxes, so for mult-million dollar deals, getting to 20% would actually be significantly better than US tax rates (although I assume there may be tricks on US-side)
  2. I disagree on the "keep" vs "fancy accounting manuevers": I assume every player with a half decent agent is doing fancy tax maneuvers: unless the player wants to spend all the money right away, they'd need to find ways to protect growth on the money from taxes (not sure how well RCAs accomplish this, but having the money in your hand isn't automatically preferable when that leads to taxation concerns, in either country)
  3. RCA's are by design, not a loophole. While I suppose the tax law could change to remove RCAs, that would be unlikely to impact existing ones and more likely to outlaw them going forward. And in the US raising taxes is a concern (in particular in blue states like Washington where leaders are regularly trying to find a way add a state income tax on high earners).
  4. I just haven't seen much evidence of low-tax states/provinces having a significantly easier time signing players than high-tax states/provinces. The two exceptions are Tampa and Vegas, but those are 2 of the best run franchises in attractive cities and it makes sense players want to play there regardless of taxes. Similarly, Ohio and Alberta are relatively low-tax jurisdictions, yet players can't seem to wait to get out.  For Montreal, I suspect the biggest concern with free-agents is worries about the language, media, and at least compared to southern US cities, maybe the weather.
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Having a tax accountant is not "fancy accounting maneuvers", it is just common sense once your income reaches a certain level. I would be very surprised if there is a regular NHL player without one.

There are several "elephants in the room" other than taxes that concern players considering a move to Quebec.

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With Gorton in, I wonder whether the team would consider Geoff Ward as a coaching candidate. Ward was an assistant in Boston while Gorton was there as assistant GM. Ward was also the head coach in Hamilton for a year as the Habs' affiliate. He's from Ontario, not sure whether he has any working knowledge of French.

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