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Retired Numbers


philosophe-rouge
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26 members have voted

  1. 1.

    • 5- Guy Lapointe
      7
    • 12- Yvan Cournoyer
      18
    • 18- Serge Savard
      7
    • 19- Larry Robinson
      69
    • 29- Ken Dryden
      34
    • 33- Patrick Roy
      62
    • Other - Mention below
      7


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This shouldn't be a question or a discution.

This guy braught 2 stanley cups to the team. He is a hall of fame player. He is the greatest goalie that the ligue ever had. It only makes complete sens.

Anyhow that incident between him and the organisation was something out of his control. We have to stop blaming him about that event.

Mario Tremblay and GM "Pinotte" was the WORST ever in the history of the habs. No can deny that.

They have done the worst trades in the history of the habs. And we are still paying for it today. You know what we have left out of that ROY trade ?? Sundstrom !!!! can you beleive this ? And now he is gone... which don't matter cuz he wasn't good anyhow.

So my point is.. YES Patrick Roy left in a BAD way. BUT he is a very proud man and I would of done the SAME. No one wants to be embarrased like he did. Tremblay did this on purpose as he wanted ROY to know he was boss. Things like this is very unprofessional from his part.. and so ROY reacting like this was only normal. Knowing that the crowd we have in Montreal is only nice to you till your last game.

So.. with that being said...

YES ROY should have his number ritired here in Montreal... and by not doing so it would be denying that ROY was one of the BEST goalie that ever played for Montreal.

And as for when it should be retired ?

Why wait years ? Gretzky, Lemieux had their numbers retired right away ?

number 33 was the greatest ever... why wait ? and for what ?

Yes guys like number 19 Larry Robison deserves to have their number retired. BUT not to compare the players... but.. ROY is ROY. I mean comon.

I SAY DO IT ASAP ! No good reason to wait anyhow.

cheers PAT !!!

still wish you come back for ONE MORE YEAR WITH THE HABS !!!!

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Guest Nikedine
This shouldn't be a question or a discution.

This guy braught 2 stanley cups to the team. He is a hall of fame player. He is the greatest goalie that the ligue ever had. It only makes complete sens.

Anyhow that incident between him and the organisation was something out of his control. We have to stop blaming him about that event.

Mario Tremblay and GM "Pinotte" was the WORST ever in the history of the habs. No can deny that.

They have done the worst trades in the history of the habs. And we are still paying for it today. You know what we have left out of that ROY trade ?? Sundstrom !!!! can you beleive this ? And now he is gone... which don't matter cuz he wasn't good anyhow.

So my point is.. YES Patrick Roy left in a BAD way. BUT he is a very proud man and I would of done the SAME. No one wants to be embarrased like he did. Tremblay did this on purpose as he wanted ROY to know he was boss. Things like this is very unprofessional from his part.. and so ROY reacting like this was only normal. Knowing that the crowd we have in Montreal is only nice to you till your last game.

So.. with that being said...

YES ROY should have his number ritired here in Montreal... and by not doing so it would be denying that ROY was one of the BEST goalie that ever played for Montreal.

And as for when it should be retired ?

Why wait years ? Gretzky, Lemieux had their numbers retired right away ?

number 33 was the greatest ever... why wait ? and for what ?

Yes guys like number 19 Larry Robison deserves to have their number retired. BUT not to compare the players... but.. ROY is ROY. I mean comon.

I SAY DO IT ASAP ! No good reason to wait anyhow.

cheers PAT !!!

still wish you come back for ONE MORE YEAR WITH THE HABS !!!![/quote:ff3287a484]

Well said! :D

The three great ones, #33 Roy, #66 Lemieux, #99 Gretzky. It ain't that hard to see the pattern. :wink:

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Guest Lafleurs Guy

Patrick Roy should and will have his number retired... eventually. Others should come first though, as they have waited too long.

Tremblay was partially responsible for what happened. He was an idiot and the Habs paid dearfully for that. However, to absolve Roy of all blame is being overly charitable. Nobody made him storm off... He was angry, fair enough, he had a right to be, but to quit on his team like that was horrific. Roy himself has said he was wrong to do what he did.

Having said all that, he deserves to have his number to be retired. I can certainly forgive him for his part in the fiasco. Despite the way things ended, he's a legend and has earned the right to have his number retired.

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I love Roy like everyone else but come on. People get benched all the time and dont demand trades. Goalies get left in the game when gettin shelled sometimes and dont flip out. How about pitchers in baseball. Sometimes they are left in to get killed but they dont react like a 10 year old. He is a pro! If he let up 20 goals dont cry about it. Say u had a bad night and u wished the coach realized u were off from the start and that he should have been taken u out sooner to give the team a chance to win and say u will be ready for the next game. I mean come out of the game, walk into the dressing room, throw some stuff around, break a few sticks and get the frustration out. Dont be like a 12 year old boy who brought the only puck to the pond and gets mad then leaves with the puck lol

As for his number being retired. Def. to early. This Montreal. There are others who deserve the honor and they should come first. Its not like in Boston where they retired Bourque and Neely

s number relatively soon. They had their hall of famers already in the rafters. Montreal still owes a few of their players that honor before giving it to someone who just recently retired. Even if he is one of the greatest goalies of all time.

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Guest habfan72

I have to agree, we don't have to wait until the guy passes away. On the same page, the other older players must get their jersey's retired. Like Dryden 29 (Classiest man in the sport of hockey), 19 (Robinson), Savard and so on... I don't have all the numbers. Maybe make up another thread to poll who should be retired next.

First of all, Roy and the Habs organization need healing. I think the elements of the old organization (Corey, Houle, and Tremblay) are gone. This is a good time to settle things and make up. Rocket Richard also had bad blood with the Habs' organization. Later, he was treated as a hero whenever he is around. I'd expect the same for Roy.

About who's fault? I saw the game on television. I remember the next day when he was attending a charity event in his name the next day. He said the thing he had done is most regretful. At the same time, the guy has emotion, pride, and the drive to be the best competitor. He wants to win. With Roy in nets, we got far. In 86, the cup, from 87 conference finals, 88 gosh, I don't remember, 89 we got to the cup final, in 93, we won the cup at home. The guy does deserve credit. Look at him now, he won the memorial with Quebec. He pushes his guys with no coaching experience! It doesn't matter. He wants to win at all costs and go all the way to a championship!

I'd say, bring him back in the organization first and mend our wounds and move on. When he is around, people will cheer "Roooah" on the scoreboard. I bet'cha 100%.

The habs must show class, respect, and a sense of pride for our successful history. Roy is part of that.

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Guest leafsreallysuck
I have to agree, we don't have to wait until the guy passes away. On the same page, the other older players must get their jersey's retired. Like Dryden 29 (Classiest man in the sport of hockey), 19 (Robinson), Savard and so on... I don't have all the numbers. Maybe make up another thread to poll who should be retired next.

First of all, Roy and the Habs organization need healing. I think the elements of the old organization (Corey, Houle, and Tremblay) are gone. This is a good time to settle things and make up. Rocket Richard also had bad blood with the Habs' organization. Later, he was treated as a hero whenever he is around. I'd expect the same for Roy.

About who's fault? I saw the game on television. I remember the next day when he was attending a charity event in his name the next day. He said the thing he had done is most regretful. At the same time, the guy has emotion, pride, and the drive to be the best competitor. He wants to win. With Roy in nets, we got far. In 86, the cup, from 87 conference finals, 88 gosh, I don't remember, 89 we got to the cup final, in 93, we won the cup at home. The guy does deserve credit. Look at him now, he won the memorial with Quebec. He pushes his guys with no coaching experience! It doesn't matter. He wants to win at all costs and go all the way to a championship!

I'd say, bring him back in the organization first and mend our wounds and move on. When he is around, people will cheer "Roooah" on the scoreboard. I bet'cha 100%.

The habs must show class, respect, and a sense of pride for our successful history. Roy is part of that.[/quote:080816c147]

Amen to that. :D

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In the real world you are judged by your actions and Roy reacted like a 5 year old when he was left out to face the Wings for a few too many goals. I have no respect for a guy that allowed his ego to DISRESPECT this franchise, it's fans and the managment that he handcuffed into trading him. I'd have traded him to Timbuktu before moving him to a contender which Colorado already was. Had you left either Thibeault or Fiset in nets that season they would have won the Cup. We gave ROY a Cup by moving him and he gave us the finger on the way out.

You can say what you want but somebody will come along and blow his records out of the water in a league designed to produce goals. Roy's oversized equipement (now illegal) and the teams defence ahead of him (he always had a good D or offense in Colorado) have led to his status today. Am I saying he wasn't good? Of course not, only an idiot would say Roy wasn't one of the best, I am saying that before we sancify him and turn him into a Saint let's be realisitic. He betrayed this team and the fans by his actions. I'd be OK with that if he ever ONCE apologized or showed remorse for his regrettable actions. his Ego will never allow him to concede that he made a mistake and in his mind...we should apoogize to him for HIS conduct.

His jersey should never hang from above....it will only diminish the ones that bled for their team....not abandoned it. He should have put the team first and taken the abuse to his Ego and become a legend in this town instead of a tired debate as to his worth. What a wasted opportunity to prove he was the greatest of all time.

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Guest leafsreallysuck
I'd be OK with that if he ever ONCE apologized or showed remorse for his regrettable actions. [/quote:06872d8f96]

I think he did just that after it happened. And this was not a one game thing, the team was managed by a few guys who should of never been nominated. Did Roy have any problems with any of the previous management team (coaches included). No, maybe that says something. The guy along with François Allaire revolutionized that position. I'm not saying it should happen this year but you make it sound like he got it easy with great D's in front of him and huge equipement. It wasn't always the case believe me. The guy is a proven winner and I'd rather have an arrogant proven winner than what we've had since. :wink:

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..........You can say what you want but somebody will come along and blow his records out of the water in a league designed to produce goals. Roy's oversized equipement (now illegal) and the teams defence ahead of him (he always had a good D or offense in Colorado) have led to his status today. .............He should have put the team first and taken the abuse to his Ego and become a legend in this town instead of a tired debate as to his worth. What a wasted opportunity to prove he was the greatest of all time.[/quote:6a696e2237]

1 - It will be pretty tough in today's hockey for someone to match his records - maybe Brodeur

2 - his equipment was legal when he played , so saying that it would have been illegal now is irrelevant, besides Hasak, Belfour etc all played during the same era and they have still a ways to go to match him

3 - he never would have become what he is today if he stayed in Montreal. At that time Montreal was being run down by Houle and Tremblay , two guys who couldn't manage or coach a pee wee team.

PS Montreal can't continue to retire almost everyone's # 's ( # 19, # 29, # 33 # 23 etc ) - pretty soon everyone will be wearing football #'s

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Guest leafsreallysuck
[.......... The guy is a proven winner and I'd rather have an arrogant proven winner than what we've had since. :wink:[/quote:241ff593eb]

lol.....I like that analogy.

I too would rather have an arrogant winner rather than a humble loser[/quote:241ff593eb]

8) Man that whole Corey era in the end. Image was more important than winning :roll: Thank god for Bob the builder.

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..........You can say what you want but somebody will come along and blow his records out of the water in a league designed to produce goals. Roy's oversized equipement (now illegal) and the teams defence ahead of him (he always had a good D or offense in Colorado) have led to his status today. .............He should have put the team first and taken the abuse to his Ego and become a legend in this town instead of a tired debate as to his worth. What a wasted opportunity to prove he was the greatest of all time.[/quote:47cd028c76]

1 - It will be pretty tough in today's hockey for someone to match his records - maybe Brodeur

2 - his equipment was legal when he played , so saying that it would have been illegal now is irrelevant, besides Hasak, Belfour etc all played during the same era and they have still a ways to go to match him

3 - he never would have become what he is today if he stayed in Montreal. At that time Montreal was being run down by Houle and Tremblay , two guys who couldn't manage or coach a pee wee team.

PS Montreal can't continue to retire almost everyone's # 's ( # 19, # 29, # 33 # 23 etc ) - pretty soon everyone will be wearing football #'s[/quote:47cd028c76]

That's my point. He got those records with equipement that was legal THEN but not any longer. It'll be much harder to beat his records now in this league that is goal oriented. That is why when he's compared to the greats before him it's a joke. Those guys played with hardly any equipement and no masks!! How can you compare Roy's achievements with those that stood before pucks with nothing to save their faces!! He played in an era that allowed jerseys that were 6 sizes too big that cought anything shot at the net. Brodeur has a shot and by the time he's done will be greatest of all time. He will do this in an era whose focus is goal scoring. He will also have a Gold medal that Roy never had.

He became what he is today because he forced the hand and was traded to Colorado where he won with a team that couldn't lose. Are you saying the Av's were NOT capable of winning without him? That's not true. I'd love to see where he'd be if he had been traded to some other team that didn't have the depth or talent the Av's did back then.

If Gainey, Robinson and other greats STILL haven't been reitred when they bled our colors can you seriously debate that Roy should be among them?? None of the jersys hanging above now or soon to be retired were ever worn by anybody who so disgraced the team by his own selfish ego driven tantrum. He could have taken the abuse, shown remorse for his actions, not reacted and forced a trade but he chose to act in his own interest and ignore the team. He gave the team no choice but to deal him and gave them no leverage to obtain anything at all. When everybody knows your player refuses to play for you, you have no basis for negotiating a deal.

Alot of people say Roy was proud. What, the Gainey's and Robinson's that took abuse and booing weren't? Did you ever see them react the way Roy did? Every star the Habs ever had was either booed or humiliated, including the Rocket at some point but did you ever see any of them hurt the team the way Roy did? Did you ever see them put themselves AHEAD of the teams best interests? If you want your jersey hanging and retired you need to conduct yourself in a way that befits membership in an exclusive club. Who cares that he won Cups? It's what he is and not his record that gets him in. It's what he brought to this team and in the end that is disgrace. Ultimately, his final regrettable actions that he never apologized for in a meaningful way disallowed him from ever being considered. You are what you do. Little do I care that he won 2 Cups with us.... so did Carbo. Should we hang his jersye up too? Or Breezer? He won one with us. Desjardins? He had a hattrick in '93 and won a game for us in overtime. He retiring so it would be nice to retire his number too just to be nice.

Roy's actions speak of what he is and he does not deserve to be retired. Maybe in Colorado where they don't have the history we have but not here. Many other greats have to be retired first because of their accomplishments and dedication to the team before Roy can be considered. Even then, he needs to come clean and admit he screwed up big time and make ammends. Then even I'll be OK with it. And that's saying something!!

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Guest Nikedine
Brodeur has a shot and by the time he's done will be greatest of all time. He will do this in an era whose focus is goal scoring. He will also have a Gold medal that Roy never had.[/quote:fc7b886df8]

Wait a minute.... In an era whose focus is goal scoring? Didn't Broduer win his cups playing in the most defensive team in the league during some of the most defensive seasons in NHL-history? :?

So to be the best goalie ever with your criterions he would have to win like 2-3 cups in the final 4-6 years of his career. Or am I wrong?

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Guest Nikedine
Brodeur has a shot and by the time he's done will be greatest of all time. He will do this in an era whose focus is goal scoring. He will also have a Gold medal that Roy never had.[/quote:c49c011297]

Wait a minute.... In an era whose focus is goal scoring? Didn't Broduer win his cups playing in the most defensive team in the league during some of the most defensive seasons in NHL-history? :?

So to be the best goalie ever with your criterions he would have to win like 2-3 cups in the final 4-7 years of his career. Or am I wrong?[/quote:c49c011297]

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Guest Dumoulin27

There's no doubt he'll have his #33 hangin from the rafters. I think that when it eventually happens it will be one of the best ceremonies ever. For all those people who still hold a grudge against St. Pat they should forget about it. It's been over 10 years now! Get a life!

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Guest habs_fan1160
After the way he deserted the team, absolutely not. Never, no way no how.[/quote:792aa533b7]

He didn't "Desert" the team. He got into a slump and the fans including the coach at the time treated him like crap.

Who in their right mind would want to play for fans like that?

And besides a player can't trade himself...the coach at the time traded him.

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Roy was a winner and he'll be in the Hall of Fame when his time comes.

the Hab player that most deserves to be in the Hockey Hall of Fame is Claude Provost.... his job was to shut down the opposition's top players... players such as Gordie Howe,Bobby Hull,Stan Mikita,Frank Mahovlich,Bobby Orr,Phil Esposito.... all in their prime.... he did it with such efficiency he ended up winning "9" Stanley Cup rings with the Habs.... Bob Gainey played the same roll with the Habs during the 70's and 80's, and got in the Hall of Fame.... only two players in NHL history have won more Stanley Cups then Claude Provost>(Beliveau 10,and Henri Richard 11)...then again any Hall of Fame that admits Clarke Gillies and Harold Ballard... can it really be called a "Hockey Hall of Fame"?..... Go Habs Go

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Guest Lafleurs Guy
In the real world you are judged by your actions and Roy reacted like a 5 year old when he was left out to face the Wings for a few too many goals. I have no respect for a guy that allowed his ego to DISRESPECT this franchise, it's fans and the managment that he handcuffed into trading him. I'd have traded him to Timbuktu before moving him to a contender which Colorado already was. Had you left either Thibeault or Fiset in nets that season they would have won the Cup. We gave ROY a Cup by moving him and he gave us the finger on the way out.

You can say what you want but somebody will come along and blow his records out of the water in a league designed to produce goals. Roy's oversized equipement (now illegal) and the teams defence ahead of him (he always had a good D or offense in Colorado) have led to his status today. Am I saying he wasn't good? Of course not, only an idiot would say Roy wasn't one of the best, I am saying that before we sancify him and turn him into a Saint let's be realisitic. He betrayed this team and the fans by his actions. I'd be OK with that if he ever ONCE apologized or showed remorse for his regrettable actions. his Ego will never allow him to concede that he made a mistake and in his mind...we should apoogize to him for HIS conduct.

His jersey should never hang from above....it will only diminish the ones that bled for their team....not abandoned it. He should have put the team first and taken the abuse to his Ego and become a legend in this town instead of a tired debate as to his worth. What a wasted opportunity to prove he was the greatest of all time.[/quote:7ec6da4dcc]

He apologized the next day.

Look, everyone knows the guy made a mistake, Roy himself has acknowledged it. You're right about him acting like a child, he should never have done it and he embarrassed himself in the process. I think we can find it in our hearts to forgive him though.

He won us 2 cups, set numerous goaltending records and was flat out terrific. All of this nonsense about large equipment really is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Morevoer, to say that the Avs would've won the cup with Thibeault is just plain ridiculous, they never would've got past Detroit. You want to come up with arguments against Roy, fine. I'm sure you can find things to criticize about his game. The fact remains though that he is largely acknowledged as the best goalie of his time.

Bottom line is, he's earned the right to have his number retired. The Canadiens, being the class organization that they are, will honour him. As they should. He deserves it.

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In the real world you are judged by your actions and Roy reacted like a 5 year old when he was left out to face the Wings for a few too many goals. I have no respect for a guy that allowed his ego to DISRESPECT this franchise, it's fans and the managment that he handcuffed into trading him. I'd have traded him to Timbuktu before moving him to a contender which Colorado already was. Had you left either Thibeault or Fiset in nets that season they would have won the Cup. We gave ROY a Cup by moving him and he gave us the finger on the way out.

You can say what you want but somebody will come along and blow his records out of the water in a league designed to produce goals. Roy's oversized equipement (now illegal) and the teams defence ahead of him (he always had a good D or offense in Colorado) have led to his status today. Am I saying he wasn't good? Of course not, only an idiot would say Roy wasn't one of the best, I am saying that before we sancify him and turn him into a Saint let's be realisitic. He betrayed this team and the fans by his actions. I'd be OK with that if he ever ONCE apologized or showed remorse for his regrettable actions. his Ego will never allow him to concede that he made a mistake and in his mind...we should apoogize to him for HIS conduct.

His jersey should never hang from above....it will only diminish the ones that bled for their team....not abandoned it. He should have put the team first and taken the abuse to his Ego and become a legend in this town instead of a tired debate as to his worth. What a wasted opportunity to prove he was the greatest of all time.[/quote:2baa40263b]

He apologized the next day.

Look, everyone knows the guy made a mistake, Roy himself has acknowledged it. You're right about him acting like a child, he should never have done it and he embarrassed himself in the process. I think we can find it in our hearts to forgive him though.

He won us 2 cups, set numerous goaltending records and was flat out terrific. All of this nonsense about large equipment really is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Morevoer, to say that the Avs would've won the cup with Thibeault is just plain ridiculous, they never would've got past Detroit. You want to come up with arguments against Roy, fine. I'm sure you can find things to criticize about his game. The fact remains though that he is largely acknowledged as the best goalie of his time.

Bottom line is, he's earned the right to have his number retired. The Canadiens, being the class organization that they are, will honour him. As they should. He deserves it.[/quote:2baa40263b]

He did apologize the next day...but remorse isn't just words it is actions. He did nothing aside from apologizing to redeem himself.

This is what his actions cost us: We got forced into trading him for next to nothing because he said he'd NEVER play for us again. That handcuffs you and basically leaves you no room to make a decent trade. That, to me, negates the achievements he had while he was here. We felt the effects of his actions for a long time while he moved on to a perrenial winner to achieve even more. It only proves it all about him.

Large equipement is NOT irrelevant since he used it to his advantage. The Av's would have won with a monkey in nets and you know it. Thibault AND Fiset were doing just fine winning before Patrick came along and that team was destined to win. The Nordiques didn't go to Colorado and sudenly become a force to reckon with once Roy got there. They were better than the Habs in many ways before they left. Afetrwards, they bought talent with their unlimited funds and Roy had a D to contend with. It's not like he did it alone.

In my opinion, people will either want him in or out and no amount of debate will ever change their opinions. This is a white or black issue for most including myself. I say never let him in and you say he should get in. Both opinions are valid because they are opinions and we are fans!!! If he gets retired so what? It's not like I'll stop being a Habs fan cuz they retired an undeserving jersey.

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Guest Lafleurs Guy

"The Av's would have won with a monkey in nets and you know it. Thibault AND Fiset were doing just fine winning before Patrick came along and that team was destined to win. The Nordiques didn't go to Colorado and sudenly become a force to reckon with once Roy got there. They were better than the Habs in many ways before they left. Afetrwards, they bought talent with their unlimited funds and Roy had a D to contend with. It's not like he did it alone. "

I've never been a huge fan of Roy anyway, but I think most people agree that he should be honoured. Having said that, I don't blame those who have it out for him because he really did bring this on himself. You don't want his number retired? Fair enough. I think you've given some pretty good reasons for him to be ignored. Personally, I'd still honour him but I can understand where your coming from.

The issue of large equipment is irrelevant in this discussion. He wore what he wore because it was allowed. All the other goalies looked like the Michelin man too but they weren't able to match his stats. Is he the best goalie of all time? I think that's a discussion for another thread and then you can bring up the size of his equipment. It really isn't important in this discussion though. Did he have bigger equipment than everyone? I just don't really care.

The only issue that I will take up with you though is your comment about anybody being able to have led the Avs to the cup. The Avs (with Thibeault as their goalie) had been favorites for years but couldn't put it together. Roy came in and was SPECTACULAR against the Wings. There's no way they make it past Yzerman & co. without Roy.

You don't like him, fair enough. But give credit where its due. Just because you say a trained monkey could have got the Avs to the cup doesn't make it so. Its not a coincidence that as soon as he arrived they won their first cup. The guy's won the Conn Smythe THREE times, more than anyone in the history of the NHL. Don't let your animosity towards him cloud your objectivity.

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Guest Habsters

Roy's oversized equipement (now illegal) and the teams defence ahead of him (he always had a good D or offense in Colorado) have led to his status today. Am I saying he wasn't good? Of course not, only an idiot would say Roy wasn't one of the best, I am saying that before we sancify him and turn him into a Saint let's be realisitic. He betrayed this team and the fans by his actions. I'd be OK with that if he ever ONCE apologized or showed remorse for his regrettable actions. his Ego will never allow him to concede that he made a mistake and in his mind...we should apoogize to him for HIS conduct.

_______________________________________________________________________

You brought up a point that has been bugging me for a while with this on going debate about Roy's number being retired or not. It should be remembered that Roy went through many a slump when he played in MTL also as mentioned by RushDP his oversized equipment was legal at the time.

But Roy himself has in the past said that he used loopholes in the rules with the oversized equipment. Did the equipment being oversize make him better? IMO it did... probably prolonged his carrere. The interresting thing is that Roy (once he retired) has said that the equipment was getting too big and should be looked at by the league, something that the League finnaly did do and should have done a long time before.

Is Roy the greatest goalie ever, that's debatable, I dont think so for me Sawchuk was the best followed closely by Plante.

Roy was probably the best at bending the rules, personally I dont want to see his number retired anytime soon, also those who think he brought the Cup to MTL it should be remembered that it's a team game. Yes he was a huge factor in MTL winning it but he was not alone he had teammates around him... some are now managing this team let's not forget their contributions.

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Lafleurs Guy,

Good post and I'll agree with you that the discussion of the large equipement should perhaps be in another thread so let's drop that issue altoegther.

I am of the opinion, and many others may agree, that when the Av's move to Colorado, they were ready to win it all. If Thibault failed there was always Fiset but the Av's were too much for the Red Wings whether Roy was there or not. It would not have made a difference in the end because they were a legitimate contender.

I don't allow my animosity to cloud my objectivity because I have no animosity towards Roy. I only state my opinion, I don't hate the guy. None of us here knows the real guy just his public image so therefore I can't dislike the guy to the point that my objectivity is not correct. I simply believe that what he did to the franchise, hwich had long lasting repercussions, negates any good he ever did here and that time does not heal all wounds. Nor should it. If we retire somebody's number based on their worth to the organization then their ENTIRE history of conduct should be judged not just select deeds that were positive in his favor.

Good debate!!!

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