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(just to be brief, only the link is quoted from the above post)

And here's the other article posted in the "State of the Habs" thread:

http://montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/nhl/montreal-canadiens/brendan-kellys-what-the-puck-the-montreal-canadiens-have-been-badly-managed-for-23-years

With those articles in mind, and without quoting the several posts who quoted my last one, I will simply say I was commenting that it was my opinion that the Habs are about to sink even lower than they have since the Roy trade. These articles mention how badly they have been managed since then. It is my opinion (you're free to disagree, of course) that this current management has just reached a new low, and that I fully expect the next 23 years to produce an even worse result than the last 23 years. I could be wrong, naturally, but it seems to me that they went from being just inept and incompetent, to now being elitist, arrogant, dishonest, inept and incompetent.

Therefore, it is my opinion that this talk about "we don't care how we win, as long as we win the Cup" is so unrealistic it's almost laughable.

This team will not come anywhere near a Cup run until major changes happen, and even then, it will probably take at least a full generation to fix the problems this current regime has happily created. And that's only if they are fixable at all. It's quite possible the Montreal Canadiens will never win another Cup in our lifetimes.

This is not even close to the same team I've been rooting for for decades. I think the "ghosts" have finally showed up, because this team, this franchise, is nothing more than a ghost of what it once was.

I will guarantee it: The Las Vegas Outlaws will win the Stanley Cup long before the Montreal Canadiens ever win another one.

There`s no doubt that many Habs fans, like yourself and myself included are not happy with the state of affairs regarding the way this team has been managed; last year`s debacle and the recent trade that rocked the boat.

However one bright light for me personally in the management staff is Mr. Muller. As to how much influence he has behind the bench remains to be seen.

Yes some of us will be holding our collective noses as we cheer our Habs on, but for me personally I`d rather we win the Cup regardless of who manages this team because in the end it`s our Habs we`re supporting, not necessarily the GM or staff behind the bench.

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(just to be brief, only the link is quoted from the above post)

And here's the other article posted in the "State of the Habs" thread:

http://montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/nhl/montreal-canadiens/brendan-kellys-what-the-puck-the-montreal-canadiens-have-been-badly-managed-for-23-years

With those articles in mind, and without quoting the several posts who quoted my last one, I will simply say I was commenting that it was my opinion that the Habs are about to sink even lower than they have since the Roy trade. These articles mention how badly they have been managed since then. It is my opinion (you're free to disagree, of course) that this current management has just reached a new low, and that I fully expect the next 23 years to produce an even worse result than the last 23 years. I could be wrong, naturally, but it seems to me that they went from being just inept and incompetent, to now being elitist, arrogant, dishonest, inept and incompetent.

Therefore, it is my opinion that this talk about "we don't care how we win, as long as we win the Cup" is so unrealistic it's almost laughable.

This team will not come anywhere near a Cup run until major changes happen, and even then, it will probably take at least a full generation to fix the problems this current regime has happily created. And that's only if they are fixable at all. It's quite possible the Montreal Canadiens will never win another Cup in our lifetimes.

This is not even close to the same team I've been rooting for for decades. I think the "ghosts" have finally showed up, because this team, this franchise, is nothing more than a ghost of what it once was.

I will guarantee it: The Las Vegas Outlaws will win the Stanley Cup long before the Montreal Canadiens ever win another one.

Hey.........they still have the torch!!!

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However one bright light for me personally in the management staff is Mr. Muller. As to how much influence he has behind the bench remains to be seen.

The thing is though, they brought in Muller and only a couple of weeks later traded PK. Im not suggesting Muller had anything to do with instigating it but you just appointed the guy as basically #2 on the coaching staff (he's an associate coach, everyone else are assistants) and you dont talk to him at all about trading one of the cornerstones of the team? I dont buy it.

Now, as i said, Muller likely didnt have huge input but i suspect he knew about the deal before it was done & probably gave it his blessing. Maybe, as the new guy, he didnt want to rock the boat, but you have to wonder how much he will toe the party line and as such, how much an impact he may or may not have for us.

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Maybe he didn't toe the line but thoght it was a good move. Muller won't have to worry too much as MB was the man willing to stand up and make this move and if he was big enough to do it he sure din't need permission from anyone else in the organization other than Molson. Muller, MT's or anyone else's opinion is moot as whether they agree or disagree MB pulled the trigger and made it happen. I don't think Poile appraoched MT or anyone other than MB about the trade and he finalised it through how they would pay out Weber's contract. Sounds like a bit of a witch hunt when the witch is standing at the door.

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The thing is though, they brought in Muller and only a couple of weeks later traded PK. Im not suggesting Muller had anything to do with instigating it but you just appointed the guy as basically #2 on the coaching staff (he's an associate coach, everyone else are assistants) and you dont talk to him at all about trading one of the cornerstones of the team? I dont buy it.

Now, as i said, Muller likely didnt have huge input but i suspect he knew about the deal before it was done & probably gave it his blessing. Maybe, as the new guy, he didnt want to rock the boat, but you have to wonder how much he will toe the party line and as such, how much an impact he may or may not have for us.

Possible their minds were made up, they clearly didn't listen to their analytics guy.

I don't think Muller if he was for or against the trade, made much difference. Seemed to me, that MB's decision was made and no one was going to change his mind.

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So, if we won the cup with present compnay you wouldn't be happy?

I've been waiting since Roy, I'd be ecstatic!!!!

Honestly, if it appeared that the Habs were making a Cup run, that would peak my interest. If they won the Cup, I would be the first to admit I was wrong. But being a betting man, I would place the odds at well over 100-1 against either of those events happening, and I'm talking over the period of the next 10-15 years at least. I've been waiting since 1993 also (when I first started cheering for the team), but I have simply decided to stop drinking the kool-aid this franchise is dispensing.

There`s no doubt that many Habs fans, like yourself and myself included are not happy with the state of affairs regarding the way this team has been managed; last year`s debacle and the recent trade that rocked the boat.

However one bright light for me personally in the management staff is Mr. Muller. As to how much influence he has behind the bench remains to be seen.

Yes some of us will be holding our collective noses as we cheer our Habs on, but for me personally I`d rather we win the Cup regardless of who manages this team because in the end it`s our Habs we`re supporting, not necessarily the GM or staff behind the bench.

No disrespect here, either to you or Mr. Muller, who I've always liked as a player and coach, but as the only non-Francophone in the bunch, I don't see his hiring as this "bright light" but instead just another setup for disappointment. Case in point is the Subban trade. Personally, I think he would have strongly opposed it, but because of his tenuous, limited position, he was forced into the role of being "politically correct" as it were, and I've really begun to dislike that concept. In my opinion, he's a band-aid....a cover-up for lots more of the same from the same ol' foxhole guys.

And as far as supporting the Habs, and "not necessarily the GM or staff behind the bench," they're all part of the same organization. You can't have the team on the ice without the team off the ice. That's my whole point....I love hockey, but I hate what Gary Bettman has done to the game. I love the Canadiens, but I hate what has become of the spirit of this franchise. And I love the players, but I cannot STAND to see their efforts not only wasted, but destroyed because of some elitist, selfish, dishonest, unfair, incompetent, stubborn, rude, insulting, senseless, cold-hearted and irresponsible coaching and management personnel and their mind-boggling decisions. A good coach and a good GM would simply have found a way to supplement the great talent P.K. Subban brought each and every night and built a championship contender around it.

Hey.........they still have the torch!!!

Careful.....I hear they're shopping for a better deal, now that the torch is an unrestricted free agent. There's rumors the Inanimate Carbon Rod wants to come to Montreal. Maybe they can get a package deal that includes a guarantee that Mario Tremblay will be the next head coach. After all, he speaks French.

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No disrespect here, either to you or Mr. Muller, who I've always liked as a player and coach, but as the only non-Francophone in the bunch, I don't see his hiring as this "bright light" but instead just another setup for disappointment. Case in point is the Subban trade. Personally, I think he would have strongly opposed it, but because of his tenuous, limited position, he was forced into the role of being "politically correct" as it were, and I've really begun to dislike that concept. In my opinion, he's a band-aid....a cover-up for lots more of the same from the same ol' foxhole guys.

And as far as supporting the Habs, and "not necessarily the GM or staff behind the bench," they're all part of the same organization. You can't have the team on the ice without the team off the ice. That's my whole point....I love hockey, but I hate what Gary Bettman has done to the game. I love the Canadiens, but I hate what has become of the spirit of this franchise. And I love the players, but I cannot STAND to see their efforts not only wasted, but destroyed because of some elitist, selfish, dishonest, unfair, incompetent, stubborn, rude, insulting, senseless, cold-hearted and irresponsible coaching and management personnel and their mind-boggling decisions. A good coach and a good GM would simply have found a way to supplement the great talent P.K. Subban brought each and every night and built a championship contender around it.

No disrespect perceived here. I mostly agree with you regarding the unfortunate politicizing of our Habs, the incompetence by the current management and the disconnected way with which they seem to patronize the fans. Bettman included for the way the game has gone.

The question is how does one still support our Habs yet show displeasure toward its management in a practical way.

I suppose these forums are one way. By simply venting, and hoping that public pressure will be enough win the day. :mellow:

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For all the 'trouble in the room' folks, whether you blame Max or PK, I think this is worth reading:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/max-pacioretty-p-k-subban-trade-shea-weber-montreal-canadiens-nashville-predators-captain/

I know it's just a puff piece, and I know that it's easy to say anything you want after the fact, but I really, really don't get a sense that there was anything wrong between these two. Sure they may have fought at practice or whatever, but not everyone gets along all the time. I really don't get the sense from anybody other than a few French reporters that locker room trouble had anything at all to do with this trade.

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I really don't get the sense from anybody other than a few French reporters that locker room trouble had anything at all to do with this trade.

Maybe the trade was made because MT never warmed up to PK and wanted him gone

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For all the 'trouble in the room' folks, whether you blame Max or PK, I think this is worth reading:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/max-pacioretty-p-k-subban-trade-shea-weber-montreal-canadiens-nashville-predators-captain/

I know it's just a puff piece, and I know that it's easy to say anything you want after the fact, but I really, really don't get a sense that there was anything wrong between these two. Sure they may have fought at practice or whatever, but not everyone gets along all the time. I really don't get the sense from anybody other than a few French reporters that locker room trouble had anything at all to do with this trade.

Saw this too, and it certainly makes it sound like there was no issue between Max and PK, although there are also a few clips suggesting Max didn't care much for Subban on some occasions too. Really hard to tell.

If there wasn't any bad blood between the two though, it is even more of an indictment of Bergevin and Therrien for acting out against Subban for childish spite.

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I wasn't there, but so far as I can tell, some of the lines from PK Subban at his Just For Laughs gala tonight:

- Montreal has always supported me. And those who didn't - traded me.

- Now I can do triple low fives whenever I want.

- Here's a song dedicated to the Habs and their chances of winning a Cup under Michel Therrien (at which point a country song called "Good Luck With That" began playing).

At the end, he thanked the Habs organization and presented a cheque for 130k to the Montreal Children's Hospital from proceeds of his gala... so obviously, these lines were made somewhat in gest. But still, there has to be a hint of truth in what he said for him to say it.

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I wasn't there, but so far as I can tell, some of the lines from PK Subban at his Just For Laughs gala tonight:

- Montreal has always supported me. And those who didn't - traded me.

- Now I can do triple low fives whenever I want.

- Here's a song dedicated to the Habs and their chances of winning a Cup under Michel Therrien (at which point a country song called "Good Luck With That" began playing).

At the end, he thanked the Habs organization and presented a cheque for 130k to the Montreal Children's Hospital from proceeds of his gala... so obviously, these lines were made somewhat in gest. But still, there has to be a hint of truth in what he said for him to say it.

I'd laugh if what PK said wasn't the truth.

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Honestly, if it appeared that the Habs were making a Cup run, that would peak my interest. If they won the Cup, I would be the first to admit I was wrong. But being a betting man, I would place the odds at well over 100-1 against either of those events happening, and I'm talking over the period of the next 10-15 years at least. I've been waiting since 1993 also (when I first started cheering for the team), but I have simply decided to stop drinking the kool-aid this franchise is dispensing.

No disrespect here, either to you or Mr. Muller, who I've always liked as a player and coach, but as the only non-Francophone in the bunch, I don't see his hiring as this "bright light" but instead just another setup for disappointment. Case in point is the Subban trade. Personally, I think he would have strongly opposed it, but because of his tenuous, limited position, he was forced into the role of being "politically correct" as it were, and I've really begun to dislike that concept. In my opinion, he's a band-aid....a cover-up for lots more of the same from the same ol' foxhole guys.

And as far as supporting the Habs, and "not necessarily the GM or staff behind the bench," they're all part of the same organization. You can't have the team on the ice without the team off the ice. That's my whole point....I love hockey, but I hate what Gary Bettman has done to the game. I love the Canadiens, but I hate what has become of the spirit of this franchise. And I love the players, but I cannot STAND to see their efforts not only wasted, but destroyed because of some elitist, selfish, dishonest, unfair, incompetent, stubborn, rude, insulting, senseless, cold-hearted and irresponsible coaching and management personnel and their mind-boggling decisions. A good coach and a good GM would simply have found a way to supplement the great talent P.K. Subban brought each and every night and built a championship contender around it.

Careful.....I hear they're shopping for a better deal, now that the torch is an unrestricted free agent. There's rumors the Inanimate Carbon Rod wants to come to Montreal. Maybe they can get a package deal that includes a guarantee that Mario Tremblay will be the next head coach. After all, he speaks French.

i stood up in my office and clapped after i finished reading this

best analogy ever. the torch thinks it bigger than the team with all its flashy fire. the inanimate carbon rod has character and plays the white right way

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- Montreal has always supported me. And those who didn't - traded me.

- Now I can do triple low fives whenever I want.

- Here's a song dedicated to the Habs and their chances of winning a Cup under Michel Therrien (at which point a country song called "Good Luck With That" began playing).

These are good !!

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I wasn't there, but so far as I can tell, some of the lines from PK Subban at his Just For Laughs gala tonight:

- Montreal has always supported me. And those who didn't - traded me.

- Now I can do triple low fives whenever I want.

- Here's a song dedicated to the Habs and their chances of winning a Cup under Michel Therrien (at which point a country song called "Good Luck With That" began playing).

At the end, he thanked the Habs organization and presented a cheque for 130k to the Montreal Children's Hospital from proceeds of his gala... so obviously, these lines were made somewhat in gest. But still, there has to be a hint of truth in what he said for him to say it.

As the old saying goes 'Many a true word is spoken in jest' -_-

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Honestly, if it appeared that the Habs were making a Cup run, that would peak my interest. If they won the Cup, I would be the first to admit I was wrong. But being a betting man, I would place the odds at well over 100-1 against either of those events happening, and I'm talking over the period of the next 10-15 years at least. I've been waiting since 1993 also (when I first started cheering for the team), but I have simply decided to stop drinking the kool-aid this franchise is dispensing.

No disrespect here, either to you or Mr. Muller, who I've always liked as a player and coach, but as the only non-Francophone in the bunch, I don't see his hiring as this "bright light" but instead just another setup for disappointment. Case in point is the Subban trade. Personally, I think he would have strongly opposed it, but because of his tenuous, limited position, he was forced into the role of being "politically correct" as it were, and I've really begun to dislike that concept. In my opinion, he's a band-aid....a cover-up for lots more of the same from the same ol' foxhole guys.

And as far as supporting the Habs, and "not necessarily the GM or staff behind the bench," they're all part of the same organization. You can't have the team on the ice without the team off the ice. That's my whole point....I love hockey, but I hate what Gary Bettman has done to the game. I love the Canadiens, but I hate what has become of the spirit of this franchise. And I love the players, but I cannot STAND to see their efforts not only wasted, but destroyed because of some elitist, selfish, dishonest, unfair, incompetent, stubborn, rude, insulting, senseless, cold-hearted and irresponsible coaching and management personnel and their mind-boggling decisions. A good coach and a good GM would simply have found a way to supplement the great talent P.K. Subban brought each and every night and built a championship contender around it.

Careful.....I hear they're shopping for a better deal, now that the torch is an unrestricted free agent. There's rumors the Inanimate Carbon Rod wants to come to Montreal. Maybe they can get a package deal that includes a guarantee that Mario Tremblay will be the next head coach. After all, he speaks French.

Great post

Hey.........they still have the torch!!!

The torch was dropped when Roy was traded and the foxhole buddies poured sand on it when they traded Subban.

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Well even though Subban said he wasn't going to make jokes about the team before the comedy show even said thats not what it was about, it didn't really surprise me. So if he's now joking about MY Habs good bye , hope he doesn't trip over his ego on stage in Nashville!

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I think we miss out greatly on PK's possession and puck moving ability. But Weber will bring a different dynamic, something we haven't seen on the blueline since the days of Larry Robinson. A offensive weapon on the blue line but toughest SOB in the league

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Well even though Subban said he wasn't going to make jokes about the team before the comedy show even said thats not what it was about, it didn't really surprise me. So if he's now joking about MY Habs good bye , hope he doesn't trip over his ego on stage in Nashville!

I actually say good for PK for doing it. If your boss treats you terribly for years, good for you for making light of that fact. Nothing Subban said was actually untrue, which is what made it funny as a joke but sad for the organization.

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I actually say good for PK for doing it. If your boss treats you terribly for years, good for you for making light of that fact. Nothing Subban said was actually untrue, which is what made it funny as a joke but sad for the organization.

I agree totally ted. Sure, Pk said he wouldn't slam his x teammates or management. So people are now saying he lied, ok, so what?

The way i see it, MB lied first when he told everyone he wasn't shopping PK.

What's good for the goose, is good for the gander.

Pk is the perfect personality to grow the game south of the border and especially in no traditional markets. They won't be afraid of his personality, baskeball and football are full of PK's. They'll welcome his larger than life personality.

Sucks for hab fans, but a huge boost for new fans just getting into hockey. Who better to sell the game than PK.

Jeremy Roenik was another special character, he rubbed some people the wrong way, but also got the attention of non-hockey fans. JR helped hockey in non traditional markets, just wait and see what PK does.

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Well even though Subban said he wasn't going to make jokes about the team before the comedy show even said thats not what it was about, it didn't really surprise me. So if he's now joking about MY Habs good bye , hope he doesn't trip over his ego on stage in Nashville!

He was treated like crap by the men that ran the team that he loved. How would you feel? He was rarely praised and was thrown under the bus when he made mistakes. He was jerked around when he was up for contract renewal and wasn't even given an on-ice ceremony when he won the Norris. Any jokes made at the Habs expense is warranted and deserved in my opinion.

I actually say good for PK for doing it. If your boss treats you terribly for years, good for you for making light of that fact. Nothing Subban said was actually untrue, which is what made it funny as a joke but sad for the organization.

Agree wholeheartedly

I agree totally ted. Sure, Pk said he wouldn't slam his x teammates or management. So people are now saying he lied, ok, so what?

The way i see it, MB lied first when he told everyone he wasn't shopping PK.

What's good for the goose, is good for the gander.

Pk is the perfect personality to grow the game south of the border and especially in no traditional markets. They won't be afraid of his personality, baskeball and football are full of PK's. They'll welcome his larger than life personality.

Sucks for hab fans, but a huge boost for new fans just getting into hockey. Who better to sell the game than PK.

Jeremy Roenik was another special character, he rubbed some people the wrong way, but also got the attention of non-hockey fans. JR helped hockey in non traditional markets, just wait and see what PK does.

Hockey players are so bland and (excuse the pun) colorless, PK's star will grow even bigger down south.

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I actually say good for PK for doing it. If your boss treats you terribly for years, good for you for making light of that fact. Nothing Subban said was actually untrue, which is what made it funny as a joke but sad for the organization.

Also P.K. gave all the proceeds (of $130,000) form the purchased 'Just for laughs' jerseys to the Montreal Children`s Hospital.

A true Canadian hero in my eyes and still a Hab at heart.

https://www.nhl.com/news/subbans-philanthropy-in-montreal-will-continue/c-281274712

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montreal brass does not a get a pass on this trade today, tomorrow or ever. this goes down right next to the roy fiasco in terms of just absolutely disastrous mismanagement. yeah we did better than a bag of pucks, but this was not a hockey trade. this was made for personal reasons, and the whole league knows it.

how is it saying something everyone knows is true..."the ones who didnt embrace me traded me"....even a joke. whats funny in there? in all seriousness...and yet he says it makes the rounds everywhere because as i said, the whole hockey world knows this was a farce, and the punchline is that it actually happened.

even if it was a more lateral move...say for letang or doughty....its still a black eye and a disgrace. the guy is in the hospital all the time, playing street hockey with kids, lights up the bell centre like no one has since lafleur, gets the fans out of their seats.....

nah. i dont say oh well, lets just be happy with what we got and move on. never. our GM picked his BFF coach over the team and the fanbase. then he goes out on tv and tells us, as the proverb says, that its just raining, to put it as politely as possible.

its a disgrace and i hope p.k wins his cups just like roy wins his cups, because this never deserves a pass just like that never deserves a pass

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