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`Marc Bergevin disclosed his antiquated process in trading Subban - one of the greatest players and personalities in today's game. This is a player who offered something undeniably unique to hockey in Montreal, both on and off the ice. He made a city and team better.




Undeniably, Bergevin's impetus runs deeper than what we're privy to. He's sided with a coach, clique, or something in the organization adverse to his former rock star defender, because despite this deal involving effective, big-money blue-liners with comparably hefty term, it doesn't add up. Subban is beginning his prime seasons, and will be a team-friendly 33 years old when his $72-million contract expires in 2022. Weber will be 31 - with a decade remaining on his deal - before ever making his Habs debut.



http://www.thescore.com/news/1039623


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I​ applaud GM Marc Begevin for having the guts & going-out & getting Shea Weber making the Habs a far better team on the D .

I have been stating that MB needs to be the GM that the Habs need to go out & make the Habs a better team & bang did just that .

GM of the Habs or any team in the NHL is not an easy job but come-on people PK. made mistakes that cost big goals @ times in important games.

Hockey is a team sport not an individualistic sport as PK. portrayed on occasion with Media & on the Ice .

Marc Bergevin I applaud you for going out & having the guts that GM's need to make their team better not fearing the fire that you know you will face .

Great job MB for getting the job done & doing what needs to be done .

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I​ applaud GM Marc Begevin for having the guts & going-out & getting Shea Weber making the Habs a far better team on the D .

I have been stating that MB needs to be the GM that the Habs need to go out & make the Habs a better team & bang did just that .

GM of the Habs or any team in the NHL is not an easy job but come-on people PK. made mistakes that cost big goals @ times in important games.

Hockey is a team sport not an individualistic sport as PK. portrayed on occasion with Media & on the Ice .

Marc Bergevin I applaud you for going out & having the guts that GM's need to make their team better not fearing the fire that you know you will face .

Great job MB for getting the job done & doing what needs to be done .

I am upset to see subban gone but i tend to agree a lot of people are looking far too much into the advanced stats. I think what we did here was trade a high risk high reward defenseman in subban to a more consistant Weber.

Think of it this way subban could fluctuate from a 6-10 out of 10 depending on the game were Weber brings a consistant 8-9 every game. I think our team needed that consistancy on defense especially with Markov soon retiring and potential young defense the next season or 2

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Weber is definitely more consistent defensively. As in, he'll be consistently stuck in his own zone playing defense because he can't drive the play any more.

Shea Weber today is not the Shea Weber you remember from 2010. He has fallen off dramatically and is not remotely close to Subban at 5 on 5. He's maybe a marginally better player on the power play, and he's better at pushing people in front of the net I guess. In the aggregate he's a massively inferior player to Subban and it's not close. This is like trading Pacioretty for Andrew Ladd or Jason Spezza.

The funniest thing will be after next season he"ll have a lower GA/60 than Subban did last year and that'll be the proof he's "better defensively" than Subban. In reality it'll be the difference between Subban playing in front of a rag tag collection of bargain bin AHL goalies, and Weber playing in front of the best goalie in the world.

Edited by Noob616
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Ultimately, was this trade necessary? If things were that bad with Subban don't you think we could possibly, maybe, trade for some scoring help? It's not a secret we've needed supplementary scoring for ages. But eh, what do I know right? From my perception, Subban won us more games than he lost for us. Last year was tough, he made mistakes, more than usual. Maybe he was pressing too much. Defensively, I never thought he was the best at protecting his goalie but he brought so many things to the team, especially swagger and confidence, something we will definitely miss now.

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Weber is definitely more consistent defensively. As in, he'll be consistently stuck in his own zone playing defense because he can't drive the play any more...

...The funniest thing will be after next season he"ll have a lower GA/60 than Subban did last year and that'll be the proof he's "better defensively" than Subban...

Something people simply haven't gotten a hang of is the simple, inescapable fact that effective defence in today's NHL is extremely difficult to recognize at full speed, real time. "Safe" plays aren't safe any more, they're signs you're being dominated. "Risky" is the default move if you want to win. This is reality, and it's going to be so whether or not people want to join it. Yes, the game has changed that much. No, the experience you had playing the game doesn't matter unless you just recently retired from the NHL or the Swedish Elite League.

You will soon see exactly what Subban provided to the team, and it'll be made extremely obvious for you. If you thought this team didn't score before, just wait. If you thought the team spent too much time being cornered and not controlling the flow of play, just wait. Weber will get his 14-18 goals and a bunch of meaningless hits while the team is shredded around him. But hey, it'll "look right"!

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I am upset to see subban gone but i tend to agree a lot of people are looking far too much into the advanced stats. I think what we did here was trade a high risk high reward defenseman in subban to a more consistant Weber.

Think of it this way subban could fluctuate from a 6-10 out of 10 depending on the game were Weber brings a consistant 8-9 every game. I think our team needed that consistancy on defense especially with Markov soon retiring and potential young defense the next season or 2W

I don't disagree Weber may be more consistent/reliable, but we have a team who can't score: defensive consistency is far from our biggest need and trading away an offensive playmaker to improve it is the wrong direction.

That's the worst part of this trade - apart from the age difference - it didn't even address a need, it tried to fix a problem we didn't really have at the expense of making a bad problem worse.

Edited by Graeme-1
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That's what really irks me as well, and it goes hand in hand with MB's obvious ineptitude to judge talent. The writing was on the wall, pretty much every hockey-related media outlet reported Subban being (more or less) available, and with the hockey world being as tight-knit as it is, there just had to be something to the rumors.

Ultimately, the question of why MB traded Subban doesn't really matter to me though. What I'd like to know is: That's the best you could do, Mark? That's truly the best return for a young, proven number 1 Dman capable of playing 30 minutes per night in all situations? Really? League-wide, there was not a single deal available that would have made more sense than acquiring an ageing Shea Weber on a brutal contract?

I find that extremely hard to believe.

Declining numbers or not, I have no doubt that Shea Weber still is an excellent Dman. He'll certainly give us 3-5 good years, so that's that. Let's think about the long-term implications though, what happens when he's really starting to decline? Either he'll play out his contract (unlikely given his style), he'll retire at some point (more likely) or we'll try to swing a trade without getting anything noteworthy in return due to his massive Cap it. Either way, none of these options are ideal, because both Weber and Subban will be gone without us having anything to show for it in the long run. So basically we traded a young No1 Dman for the remaining years of Shea Weber's career.

Bingo.

As the dust settles & I try to put some sort of spin on this that has ANY sort of reason all i can come up with is: Bergevin felt like Subban was not liked in the room and had to be moved. Then maybe (grasping here) someone like Price was asked "if you could have any defenseman in front of you, who would it be?" and he said Weber ? I dunno.

EVEN IF - that is the case (and again, its completely made up on my part, trying to find SOME SORT of logic here) it still doesnt explain why it was 1 for 1 deal. Had it come back as Weber + Kamenev or Weber + Fiala or Weber + Gortz + 2nd at least we could have had SOMETHING - some sort of intangible to look at and say "well maybe this will work out."

One for one is just abysmal. If we play devil's advocate & believe the rumors (that Subban was a dividing force in the room) then maybe Bergevin is right, maybe we are a better team this year with Weber than Subban. But will be the following? What about 4 years from now? 6?

Ugg. Im still sick and mad about this.

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Is this bad karma gonna end? I remember it well, Pollock left the team, replaced by Grundman, Kenny Wayne retired , they traded for Herron and I thought to myself, this is it, this team will NEVER be the same. I was only 12!! Ever since, the number of ridiculous trades that this organization has made have been mind boggling almost FICTITIOUS. The Langway/Englom trade, drafting Wickenheiser, the Roy trade, Desjardin/Leclair trade and now this. I am sure I forgot some more bone head moves, Oh ya, GOMEZ, ughhhhhhhh. I get sick and tired of hearing how Price not being injured would have saved the season. Without going into too much detail, starting from December and into each month including March, the team scored 2 goals or less, 12 times in December, 8 times in Jan, 7 times in Feb and 8 times in March. So, by Habs logic, this means that Price would have to limit the opposition to 2 goals or less to keep them in the game. He would have to stand on his head a lot. Does it sound unreasonable that he could perform consistently like this for the team to have a chance game in and game out? Absolutely not, however, when Dryden did it, he had many, many scorers to complement his greatness. I am close to giving up on a team which I have loved for most of my life….

Edited by habby67
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Is this bad karma gonna end? I remember it well, Pollock left the team, replaced by Grundman, Kenny Wayne retired , they traded for Herron and I thought to myself, this is it, this team will NEVER be the same. I was only 12!! Ever since, the number of ridiculous trades that this organization has made have been mind boggling almost FICTITIOUS. The Langway/Englom trade, drafting Wickenheiser, the Roy trade, Desjardin/Leclair trade and now this. I am sure I forgot some more bone head moves, Oh ya, GOMEZ, ughhhhhhhh. I get sick and tired of hearing how Price not being injured would have saved the season. Without going into too much detail, starting from December and into each month including March, the team scored 2 goals or less, 12 times in December, 8 times in Jan, 7 times in Feb and 8 times in March. So, by Habs logic, this means that Price would have to limit the opposition to 2 goals or less to keep them in the game. He would have to stand on his head a lot. Does it sound unreasonable that he could perform consistently like this for the team to have a chance game in and game out? Absolutely not, however, when Dryden did it, he had many, many scorers to complement his greatness. I am close to giving up on a team which I have loved for most of my life….

This was funny to read because literally just this morning I was explaining to my wife.... who was born in China and was genuinely concerned over my current disposition to put it mildly........ the cycle the habs can't seem to get out of since I was a child, which is build a promising team and then make the absolute stupidest move or moves which just gut us and we have to go through dark days again

Im a little younger than you but for myself it started with chelios, we still won a cup, then we traded Roy who was my absolute biggest hero at the time being a young goalie, and it just never seemed to end.

you left out the whole muller for turgeon for corson, and recchi for zubrus era before even the gomez midget era. cammaleri for bourque, ...just ugh

2 years ago i felt so excited about this new core we had developed and here we are, its now turned its inevitable corner and its now the team of weber and shaw, captain nonfactoretty and the soon to be massively overpaid andrew ladd

staring down at the abyss yet again

this subban trade hurts almost as bad as roy though. the habs have hurt me a lot over the years, but this time i just caught them in bed with the mailman. thats what this is

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Usually, it's the coach that is let go if there's a problem with your top players, but not in this case. The fox-hole buddies just dug a deeper fox-hole. IMO, they should both be buried in it. I really don't see how Geoff could OK this move. He HAD to have been consulted.

I just feel empty right now.

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Usually, it's the coach that is let go if there's a problem with your top players, but not in this case. The fox-hole buddies just dug a deeper fox-hole. IMO, they should both be buried in it. I really don't see how Geoff could OK this move. He HAD to have been consulted.

I just feel empty right now.

They dug a wider foxhole to accommodate Molson. Three blind mice.

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I'm still in shock... I honestly don't know if I can watch this new team. You know there was a part of me that wanted a rebuild. I thought we have 3 AMAZING pieces imagine what we could get if we traded them... I really wish we had done that. But this is terrible asset management and a slap in the face to PK. I hate this team. I hate the players in the dressing room that couldn't wait to get rid of "annoying" Subban. I hate the coach, the GM, and I'm pretty sure I hate the owner too.

What and who am I to cheer for anymore? What are we building? We've obviously peaked now we have to watch a slow decline to nothing. I'm fed up. And this while the Leafs are clearly on the rise and its not just their dumb fans saying it, we can all see it!

I don't know, I'm really liking the Flames these days, lots to be excited about... maybe I'm done with habs


THU, 2 MAR 2017 PREDATORS CANADIENS 7:30 PM

I won't be able to watch that unless I'm totally done with habs. I hope on the home opener they chant "PK. PK" the entire game, including during the torch ceremony and we boo all management and coaches

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Everybody........ breathe :D

Apparently we are far from done....

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/sports/news/extreme-makeover-of-the-canadiens-far-from-over/ar-AAhOLaM?li=AAggXBR

(there is even mention of DD being "diminutive" :D )

Diminutive forward David Desharnais appears earmarked for a buyout if another team is unwilling to trade for his services.

Really? Wow. Will believe that when i see it.

At this point I feel a mix of anger and frustration with this team - BUT - it will be interesting to watch & see what exactly Bergevin thinks we need and how he addresses that.

I highly doubt he will build a winning team - just based on his moves it looks like he's trying to build a winner from 2002 - but who knows. Maybe he is going to go so counter-intuitive to the current flow of the game he will create a new system. Like when the devils came up with the trap & confused the heck out of everyone. I wouldnt hold my breath though. lol.

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In case you didn't listen to conference call of the most depressed and afraid person on earth... I feel so bad for this guy. He does not deserve this... but neither do we !

https://www.nhl.com/canadiens/video/audio-shea-weber/t-277437414/c-44316103

This is a bad trade. He didn't ask to be traded 1-for-1 for a vastly superior player, or for Marc Bergevin to put him on a pedestal. But that's the way it goes: the organization has made him the poster boy for their retro movement. They're more than happy to benefit if anything positive comes of it, so they simply must be held to account should the opposite occur.

That said, despite the tax increase in Quebec, he'll still be getting a paycheque. He's also been one of the most notable recipients of fawning, hagiographic, anti-intellectual coverage from the hockey press. The realistic coverage of this awful trade has been a mere drip in a swimming pool. We never stop hearing about what an immaculate professional he is, so I certainly expect he'll be fine.

The fans will not hate Weber!

Hate may be a strong word, but I doubt we'll be particularly pleased if he plays like he has in Nashville over the last two seasons.

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