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Max Traded to Vegas


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A roster player, a promising prospect, and a 2nd round draft choice was exactly what I expected we'd get for Max more than a month ago. There may have been an opportunity to get more, but Bergevin messed that up. I don't think anyone here is "cool" with Bergevin or Molson after this trade, but I do think the deal is solid given the context. I doubt we'll see anymore moves before the season begins.

The question becomes, what can we get for Plekanec, Benn, and Byron at the deadline?

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2 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I think most of us are actually feeling positive about the deal.

Im in the neutral corner .

This team was going to suck with him , they're going suck without him .

Hopefully all the draft picks amount to something

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FWIW, 

From the LV Sun:

"In Las Vegas, Pacioretty will likely play alongside Alex Tuch and Paul Stastny on the Golden Knights’ second line this season. It would add speed and high-end scoring to the line and allow Erik Haula to center the third line.

General manager George McPhee told the Golden Knights’ Insider Show on Fox Sports 1340 AM he thought Vegas had one of the worst second lines in the league last year. With the departure of James Neal and David Perron, and the additions of Stastny and Pacioretty he has addressed that concern."

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A few points:

1. I'll reiterate, the trade isn't bad. The problem  think a lot of us have conceptually is that it could have and should have been better if Bergevin hadn't painted himself in a corner. It was a good trade dealing from a position of weakness, but whose fault was it that we were in a position of weakness? Bergevin's. Hard to congratulate a guy for starting a fire then putting it out and minimizing the damage. Sure, it's good he put the fire out but would have been better to just have never lit it.

2. The issue of lying is a recurring theme with Bergevin and Molson. I heard one rumor that Max and MB met last year, that MB told him it would be in everyone's best interest for them to part ways, and that "Max agreed." The thought is that MB and GM are spinning this into "Max requested a trade," which is a dishonest way of presenting the information. I don't know who to believe but given that you have guys like Briere, PAP, Eller, Subban, Markov, Radulov, Pacioretty, etc. saying that MB/MT were lying or didn't communicate to the player what they told the media, I'd tend to argue there's a trend there that suggests MB is a liar. Is he the only one spinning the truth here? Maybe not. Is it possible he's telling the truth this one time? Maybe. But he hasn't earned that benefit of the doubt. You reap what you sow, and Bergevin's earned that reputation on his own.

3. The contract is interesting. It suggests that Pacioretty was willing to accept less term. Would he have accepted that here? Who knows. But if he wasn't going to accept the same contract here, then it begs the question as to why. At one point as recent as a year ago, he bought an expensive house here and you have to believe he wanted to stay. So we know he thought of this as home. So either he really soured on MB/GM and didn't see a future here OR the take-home pay because of taxes became a big issue. Someone reported that the equivalent salary for the Habs to match the Vegas offer would have been close to 10M per year (since Vegas has no state tax). Much easier for LV to give Max 4 years x 7M than for the Habs to have given 4 years x 10M. If you had the opportunity to sign an identical contract to what LV gave Max, we should have done it. I suspect that was never on the table, but if it's because of Bergevin yet again, he should be sacked and if it's because of tax discrepancies, I'll once again come back to this being an unfair CBA that disadvantages teams like us because of the hard cap on top of major differences in tax laws.

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3 hours ago, habsisme said:

I really don't understand all the negativity. This is a rebuild move. I thought we wanted to rebuild. When we traded PK everyone said we should have traded to EDM for their prospects, now its not okay to do that? If anything we are even MORE in a rebuild situation. I'm confused by habs fans, guess there is no way to please everyone. 

I like this deal tons

MB tried to trade PK to Edmonton but they baulked at the trade when MB asked for Leon Draisaitl as part of the deal

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2 hours ago, kinot-2 said:

FWIW, 

From the LV Sun:

"In Las Vegas, Pacioretty will likely play alongside Alex Tuch and Paul Stastny on the Golden Knights’ second line this season. It would add speed and high-end scoring to the line and allow Erik Haula to center the third line.

General manager George McPhee told the Golden Knights’ Insider Show on Fox Sports 1340 AM he thought Vegas had one of the worst second lines in the league last year. With the departure of James Neal and David Perron, and the additions of Stastny and Pacioretty he has addressed that concern."

How dare he have standards!!

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1 hour ago, truehabs said:

Actually Max did say that he wanted to be traded out of Montreal.  He stated in an interview that if Montreal asked him to give up the captaincy he would ask to be traded out of Montreal rather than give it up.  https://www.tsn.ca/pacioretty-won-t-return-without-captaincy-1.1051464

That's not really the same question though.

"Hey Carey, if we made you the back-up goalie and you only played 15 games a year, would you want to stay or be traded?"

Can't blame a guy for wanting to leave if the team feels he isn't adequate as a leader/captain. Hard to command respect in the room after being denigrated like that. I always said I never would have selected Max as captain, but I also wouldn't have revoked it either. In any case, MB said the team wouldn't have asked Max to give it up, so in that case, it means Max never requested a trade on that ground.

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We get a really good young prospect and a second round pick.

Tatar - who cares hopefully he can have a really good year or two so we can move him out in a couple of years..

Lets face it this team will really suck, it would be nice to get more, but getting a quality young prospect like Nick Suzuki is good for this team going foward.

Add Poeli, Kots and Vedj, if we have some luck we may be really strong down the middle for a long time in the next few years.

If we could get a good young dee prospect for Petry and a second in a trade. Also when Weber returns turn him over for the same that would give us a good pool of players in core areas deem and center

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I love the trade. Patches  stating no negotiating during the season sealed any chance of this going into the season This could have went another way (see Tavares). and lthough Bergevin took a little longer than I like.to make the deal Bergy got a pretty good return. Watching Max struggle at the start of last season  was hard.  Tatar, if he his going to do anything is going to do it in a hockey town and Suzuki is a good prospect. Now if LV has a sophomore jinx of a season and Patches plays like he did last year that will be a nice second rounder. Gallagher should get the captaincy and if it isn't him I imagine it is Weber.

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8 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

 Someone reported that the equivalent salary for the Habs to match the Vegas offer would have been close to 10M per year (since Vegas has no state tax). Much easier for LV to give Max 4 years x 7M than for the Habs to have given 4 years x 10M. If you had the opportunity to sign an identical contract to what LV gave Max, we should have done it.

10 million sounds a little exaggerated. With simple tax calculations (no fancy deductions or anything), if I calculated correctly, he'll take home about 4.2 million in Vegas. To get that in Montreal he'd need around 9 million.

So I don't necessarily think Max would have taken that exact deal here. But what gets me is there's still a big difference between 4 years and 8 years. Something like 5 years at 8 million would seem roughly equivalent to that deal after accounting for tax differences (take home ~500k less a year, but add insurance of an extra 8 million year) - still a long ways from the 8 for 8 we were hearing about.

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Graeme-1 said:

10 million sounds a little exaggerated. With simple tax calculations (no fancy deductions or anything), if I calculated correctly, he'll take home about 4.2 million in Vegas. To get that in Montreal he'd need around 9 million.

So I don't necessarily think Max would have taken that exact deal here. But what gets me is there's still a big difference between 4 years and 8 years. Something like 5 years at 8 million would seem roughly equivalent to that deal after accounting for tax differences (take home ~500k less a year, but add insurance of an extra 8 million year) - still a long ways from the 8 for 8 we were hearing about.

One thing I'd also add is before feeling too sorry for the team here - think of Tavares this summer. Toronto is actually in a slightly worse position than Montreal for income taxes (53.31% vs 53.53% at the top rate, see https://www.taxtips.ca/taxrates/qc.htm and https://www.taxtips.ca/taxrates/on.htm). And it wasn't like they even had to overpay for a player of his caliber.

Montreal should be able to sell itself as a destination, even if it means taking slightly less - it's a beautiful city and the Canadiens have more history than any other team.  I'm sure there's plenty of players with pictures of them as kids with their Habs bed sheets too.  Ya you'll make a little less up front, but you get the chance to be a hockey legend.

But why would any player want to play in Montreal right now?

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