Jump to content
The Official Site of the Montréal Canadiens
Canadiens de Montreal

Drouin


ramcharger440
 Share

Recommended Posts

I don't hate the guy at all but i wonder if he is one of the guy's we should build the team around. my thinking on this is he is top three on our team for raw skill but he is also playing as a winger pretty much our strongest position, imagine if this trade had never happened and Sergachev was still here would we be a better team? or just a different team. we are not good enough now and because he is good he is a strong trade chip, we are not going to get a #2 LD for a guy that is middle of the pack we will have to fork over a real asset to get that player a player we probably need more. of all the forwards we have that have real trade value i personally see him as the one i would move to make the team better. we do have good young players coming up, who know they may even shoot the puck on the power play once in a while.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Drouin is without a doubt one of if not our most skilled player with the puck. But I don't think his defensive issues and effort issues can just be overlooked. It's a constant thing with him where he skates into the zone and throws the puck away blindly so he doesn't have to take a hit. It's happened several times where he just doesn't skate hard to get back and play defence, yet when we recover the puck, he seems to have a ton of energy to go up the ice to try and score. And similarly I've seen our team turn the puck over and instead of trying to get back to play D, he skates to the bench on a bad line change. If you've ever played hockey, you know you hate to have teammates who do those sorts of things, where every other guy is working their tail off and this one player seems to just be in it for personal stats and to only do the "fun" things but not put in the hard work. That's the vibe I get from Drouin, which doesn't mean I don't think he also does good stuff and doesn't mean I think he doesn't want to win. I just think he sees himself as only having to play offence to be valuable to the team.

So how is this diffferent from Galchenyuk? IMO, and I accept if people a different view, Galchenyuk tried. He skated to get back on D, he got upset with himself if he made a turnover, and so on. The problem is that Galchenyuk would get back into his own zone and then not really know where he should be on the ice or which man he should cover. I don't think it was for a lack of effort, I think it was for a lack of understanding, and it's something that's more forgivable in my books and something whereby I think a better coach than Therrien would have stepped in and fixed some of the issues at a younger age. For all the talk about attitude problems with Subban and Galchenyuk and Briere and so on, Drouin is a guy who to me seems like he's in need of the biggest attitude adjustment, and he obviously had similar problems in Tampa when he was there. He just seems to think he's above having to be a 200-foot player and it hurts us regularly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Drouin is without a doubt one of if not our most skilled player with the puck. But I don't think his defensive issues and effort issues can just be overlooked. It's a constant thing with him where he skates into the zone and throws the puck away blindly so he doesn't have to take a hit. It's happened several times where he just doesn't skate hard to get back and play defence, yet when we recover the puck, he seems to have a ton of energy to go up the ice to try and score. And similarly I've seen our team turn the puck over and instead of trying to get back to play D, he skates to the bench on a bad line change. If you've ever played hockey, you know you hate to have teammates who do those sorts of things, where every other guy is working their tail off and this one player seems to just be in it for personal stats and to only do the "fun" things but not put in the hard work. That's the vibe I get from Drouin, which doesn't mean I don't think he also does good stuff and doesn't mean I think he doesn't want to win. I just think he sees himself as only having to play offence to be valuable to the team.

So how is this diffferent from Galchenyuk? IMO, and I accept if people a different view, Galchenyuk tried. He skated to get back on D, he got upset with himself if he made a turnover, and so on. The problem is that Galchenyuk would get back into his own zone and then not really know where he should be on the ice or which man he should cover. I don't think it was for a lack of effort, I think it was for a lack of understanding, and it's something that's more forgivable in my books and something whereby I think a better coach than Therrien would have stepped in and fixed some of the issues at a younger age. For all the talk about attitude problems with Subban and Galchenyuk and Briere and so on, Drouin is a guy who to me seems like he's in need of the biggest attitude adjustment, and he obviously had similar problems in Tampa when he was there. He just seems to think he's above having to be a 200-foot player and it hurts us regularly.

I think you're spot on. 

I think thats what makes Drouin so frustrating too.  You can teach defense.  Any player can give effort.  What you cant do is teach skill and vision.  Galchenyuk has skill. I dont think he has great vision.  Drouin has both. He should be a vastly superior player but I dont think he'll ever care enough about that side of the game to be one. If he put in the effort that Gallagher did, he'd easily be our best forward and possibly one of the top forwards in the league.  Instead he floats around, avoids checks and does almost no work from the centre-line back.    

He's still a useful player but he could be so much more. You would think that with guys like Gallagher and Shaw and Byron - guys who would stop the puck with their face if it meant saving a goal  - around he'd start to adapt but so far, no.   Maybe he needs Weber to threaten him.   Waaay back when Jagr was a rookie he said (in his own words) that he was lazy and a floater.   Lemieux, who was limited to only a couple of dozen games that year apparently sat him down and said "smarten up."   Jagr said he was afraid Lemieux was going to kick his behind if he didnt put in maximum effort (I think Jagr actually literally thought Lemieux was going to beat him up! :D) and that changed him and his game from then on.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, CaptWelly said:

I really think the type player he is he needs to play with someone like Domi. I don't like rewarding players for lack of effort , but we need his skill and he is better with someone creative that can set him up. I'd say put Byron back with KK. 

Are you saying Domi has more skill than KK? IMHO KK>Domi in just about every measurable category also putting Drouin with KK may finally help KK get going cause he will finally have someone who can actually finish for him

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, CaptWelly said:

I really think the type player he is he needs to play with someone like Domi. I don't like rewarding players for lack of effort , but we need his skill and he is better with someone creative that can set him up. I'd say put Byron back with KK. 

 

1 minute ago, campabee82 said:

Are you saying Domi has more skill than KK? IMHO KK>Domi in just about every measurable category also putting Drouin with KK may finally help KK get going cause he will finally have someone who can actually finish for him

I think the suggestion was hustle.  Domi is like Gallagher - hustles everywhere and opens up space for linemates because he does everything so fast.  JK is a super talented kid but he slows the game down because of his creativity and ability to draw players to him.   They are quite different players. Im not sure which one is more suited to getting Drouin going but I wish we didnt have to figure that out for him.

In terms of JK vs Domi ... i personally dont know if i would say JK > Domi right now in 2019.  In a year or two I suspect that will be true (and may not even be close) but right now its pretty tough to argue that since Domi plays night in, night out against one of the top 2 lines on the other team while JK does get some easier assignments.  Thats not to say he couldnt handle more but as of right now id say they are pretty close in skill. My 2¢

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Perfect timing on the sportsnet article about Drouin.

BROSSARD, Que.— Jonathan Drouin still sees himself as a work in progress and it would be wise for Montreal Canadiens fans to view him the same way.

At 23 years old, with just 309 games of NHL experience under his belt, it’s normal for him to be entrenched in the process of seeking out the type of consistency that defines a good career. It’s normal that he’ll hit a few bumps along that road. If Canadiens fans can recognize that, they’ll have an easier time appreciating the progress he’s made as a player over the last six months.

 
 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, maas_art said:

 

I think the suggestion was hustle.  Domi is like Gallagher - hustles everywhere and opens up space for linemates because he does everything so fast.  JK is a super talented kid but he slows the game down because of his creativity and ability to draw players to him.   They are quite different players. Im not sure which one is more suited to getting Drouin going but I wish we didnt have to figure that out for him.

In terms of JK vs Domi ... i personally dont know if i would say JK > Domi right now in 2019.  In a year or two I suspect that will be true (and may not even be close) but right now its pretty tough to argue that since Domi plays night in, night out against one of the top 2 lines on the other team while JK does get some easier assignments.  Thats not to say he couldnt handle more but as of right now id say they are pretty close in skill. My 2¢

Only Drouin can get Drouin going. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, tony5775 said:

Perfect timing on the sportsnet article about Drouin.

BROSSARD, Que.— Jonathan Drouin still sees himself as a work in progress and it would be wise for Montreal Canadiens fans to view him the same way.

At 23 years old, with just 309 games of NHL experience under his belt, it’s normal for him to be entrenched in the process of seeking out the type of consistency that defines a good career. It’s normal that he’ll hit a few bumps along that road. If Canadiens fans can recognize that, they’ll have an easier time appreciating the progress he’s made as a player over the last six months.

Amen! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, tony5775 said:

Perfect timing on the sportsnet article about Drouin.

 

BROSSARD, Que.— Jonathan Drouin still sees himself as a work in progress and it would be wise for Montreal Canadiens fans to view him the same way.

At 23 years old, with just 309 games of NHL experience under his belt, it’s normal for him to be entrenched in the process of seeking out the type of consistency that defines a good career. It’s normal that he’ll hit a few bumps along that road. If Canadiens fans can recognize that, they’ll have an easier time appreciating the progress he’s made as a player over the last six months.

 
 

Fair enough .... looking at the other forwards from his draft year 

Drouin first 4 seasons 309gp 59g 132a

MacKinnon,  first 4 seasons 300gp  75g 131a

Barkov first 4 seasons 252gp 73g 98a

Elias Lindholm first 5 seasons 374gp 64g 124a

Sean Monahan first 4 seasons 319gp 107g 110a

Drouin is the only one of the top 5 forwards from his draft year that did not play in the NHL immediately.  He's also the only one of the 4 to have been relegated to the AHL.  True, his career stats through 309 games are similar to the other 4 ... but I'm wondering if his development was hurt by not immediately making the jump, being bounced between TBL and Syracruse and only playing 21 NHL games in 2015-2016.        Another notable forward from that same year is Max Domi who has 195 career points in 291 games, Domi spent 2 more years in the OHL before making the jump to the Yotes.    

So while Drouin has progressed ... last year 46pts in 77 games ... he's on pace for 56 in 77 this year.   Domi had 45pts in 82 games last year, he's on pace for 71 (compared to 60pt pace for Drouin) .... 

Drouin simply hasn't progressed as fast as any of the other top forwards from his draft class, and saying its only down to games played is simplistic.  Domi is an example of that.      Jake Guentzel, 65pts in 69 games in his 3rd NHL season, having spent 3 years in UNIV and 2 in AHL before joining the Pens is another example.

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For me, it's not a question of production with Drouin. I can live with his taking a bit of time to get better, although most star forwards in the league (top 5 draft choices) are probably already peaking by 22-24 years old. My issue is his utter lack of effort a lot of the time, especially defensively. His attitude shouldn't be a work in progress, he's been a professional hockey player for several years now and what it is is likely what it will be going forward.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

For me, it's not a question of production with Drouin. I can live with his taking a bit of time to get better, although most star forwards in the league (top 5 draft choices) are probably already peaking by 22-24 years old. My issue is his utter lack of effort a lot of the time, especially defensively. His attitude shouldn't be a work in progress, he's been a professional hockey player for several years now and what it is is likely what it will be going forward.

Bingo!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, tony5775 said:

Watched the whole game last night and he was constantly fighting for the puck. He was back in his own end playing his "wing position" every shift. 

Not sure where this all comes from. 

Last night, he absolutely played hard, I agree. Just too many nights where he's mailed it in defensively.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

he needs more confidence on offense....too many times he skates too far into the corner, too late for a good shot , then spins around looking to pass it,   and speaking of passing >>he and the whole team are giving the puck away waaaaaaaaaaaaaayyy too much with their haphazard passes lately...

on defense ...he needs an edumacation.....just my opinion

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/13/2019 at 10:15 AM, tony5775 said:

Watched the whole game last night and he was constantly fighting for the puck. He was back in his own end playing his "wing position" every shift. 

Not sure where this all comes from. 

I, too, thought he put in a stellar performance against the Wings. Let's hope he has another good night against the Islanders and adds a point or two to his yearly totals.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I, too, thought he put in a stellar performance against the Wings. Let's hope he has another good night against the Islanders and adds a point or two to his yearly totals.

Also agree. Was everywhere that night.  He's historically been better at end of the year (and i think he's going to be fantasic in the post season for us) so it will be interesting to see how the last batch of games plays out.  I have a feeling he'll be great. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Also agree. Was everywhere that night.  He's historically been better at end of the year (and i think he's going to be fantasic in the post season for us) so it will be interesting to see how the last batch of games plays out.  I have a feeling he'll be great. 

I didn't think he was horrible vs the Wings. Still looking to make those drop passes that everybody in the League is aware he likes to make,,, but otherwise he was hustling all game and only made a couple poor passes that were easily picked off. His PP time is well telegraphed though. Not sure he belongs in that role they have him playing. Then again,,,, everybody looks bad on our PP.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Drouin actually is what every dumb guy thinks the skill player on their favourite team is. What dumb Leafs fans say about Nylander etc etc is actually true about Drouin in terms of the scoring not making up for what you give up.

He's a middle six winger at even strength and a good power play guy. He provides negative value when he isn't scoring because his defensive impact is negative and his possession impact is zilch. It isn't his fault, he had a significant body of work as a pro that suggested this was his value at the time of the trade and I don't think it's fair to dogpile on the player because management had dreams he would develop into a Marner/Gaudreau and traded a blue chip prospect for him. 

The biggest concern with Drouin is whether or not the team is realistic in what he provides. If they accept that he's a PP guy and a middle six winger at ES that needs to be heavily sheltered that's fine and at 5.5M that's not really a problem for the Habs to afford. It sucks in the context of the trade but that's a sunk cost and at face value Drouin at 5.5M is fine for a team that generally lacks flair and has the two way centers to insulate his defensive shortcomings. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on the PP since he's been a successful PP weapon in Tampa and Montreal. The problem is if the Habs keep holding on to this hope that he's going to live up to his draft hype and become a Gaudreau/Marner level star winger and if they fail to add forward talent to the roster in the hopes Drouin will develop into a star. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • H_T_L locked this topic
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...