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Man  mountain looking more like Man pothole since the break. Is he hurt or what??? Time to shut him down for the year IMO. Hurting the team right now. Can't count how many times Mete has had to skate like a madman to cover for him. At this point Reilly has to be a better option.

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said it when it happened, and its more true with every day that passes:

one of the worst trades we have ever made.

Its a little annoying to me actually how much of a pass this guy gets. Granted he broke the 10 goal barrier, which is good, but the PP is in last place, which he is apparently a specialist at quarterbacking.  Outside of that, he is slow even when hes at 100%, and when he inevitably gets banged up like he has been for half the year and especially is right now, hes utterly immobile. 

Its now or never to trade him, which we should and for whatever we can get, but we won't, and it's frustrating.

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ONE bad play and you all jump on him SHAME. Maybe you should all see how no one talked to Shaw on the bench. Or what good would making the playoffs do for MB and CJ they have all done so well. You all miss how they only want the large pay checks they are getting, Not going to happen this year. All those that said you were done with the Habs  at the beginning of the year. Well you know. Like That

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1 hour ago, tony5775 said:

ONE bad play and you all jump on him SHAME. Maybe you should all see how no one talked to Shaw on the bench. Or what good would making the playoffs do for MB and CJ they have all done so well. You all miss how they only want the large pay checks they are getting, Not going to happen this year. All those that said you were done with the Habs  at the beginning of the year. Well you know. Like That

No, not just one bad play... Weber has been having trouble skating and pivoting for a couple of weeks now. Most of us figure he's playing hurt and that the injury is something to do with his lower body. He also had the same type of thing happen last year before he went out with his knee injury, so there's a precedent for it.

Weber had a nice start after he came back from injury. He played better then than he did last year IMO. But the second half of his season has been a struggle, he hasn't been able to bring success to the PP despite his booming shot, and now he clearly can't skate to keep up with opposing players. In this game, unfortunately when you can't skate you're done. Now in the end, this may be another injury for which he just needs rest. That's probably best case scenario. And if that's the case, he'll be back and a contributor again in the future. But this is what a lot of people feared when we made the trade: we got an older player who plays a bruising game and that doesn't always hold up well over time. Right now, we're either seeing him slow down or we're seeing him deal with repeated important lower-body injuries. I have concern we won't see Weber be able to play a full year as a top pairing guy, and with Petry struggling too, we really have very little to hold our D crew together.

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5 hours ago, ramcharger440 said:

And yet he is doing about the same if not a touch better than 2012-2013 in the same # of games with a much much worse supporting cast!

you mean offensively I guess....  he certainly hasnt been the team canada 1st pairing shea weber in at least 5 years. I gave him credit for still having a shot and getting his 10-15 goals, but other than that hes a pylon.

 

3 hours ago, tony5775 said:

ONE bad play and you all jump on him SHAME. Maybe you should all see how no one talked to Shaw on the bench. Or what good would making the playoffs do for MB and CJ they have all done so well. You all miss how they only want the large pay checks they are getting, Not going to happen this year. All those that said you were done with the Habs  at the beginning of the year. Well you know. Like That

To be fair I have been on him since he arrived and he's really done nothing other than back up what I said from day 1. His dominating days are long gone , he's too slow and not dynamic enough to be an elite guy anymore, and it doesnt matter that hes on the team. He was supposed to make this difference, like we may be mediocre but egomaniac subban makes us fall apart, and yet we made the playoffs his first year and disappeared, bombed his second year  and now we are falling apart again. Is it his fault? no, this leadership magic is nonsense, the team just isnt good enough. the point is the team was never good enough, it had nothing to do with intangibles, and at the end of the day, he doesnt make the team any better, and the hard fact is subban was and is a way better player right now. 

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6 hours ago, jeff33 said:

you mean offensively I guess....  he certainly hasnt been the team canada 1st pairing shea weber in at least 5 years. I gave him credit for still having a shot and getting his 10-15 goals, but other than that hes a pylon.

 

To be fair I have been on him since he arrived and he's really done nothing other than back up what I said from day 1. His dominating days are long gone , he's too slow and not dynamic enough to be an elite guy anymore, and it doesnt matter that hes on the team. He was supposed to make this difference, like we may be mediocre but egomaniac subban makes us fall apart, and yet we made the playoffs his first year and disappeared, bombed his second year  and now we are falling apart again. Is it his fault? no, this leadership magic is nonsense, the team just isnt good enough. the point is the team was never good enough, it had nothing to do with intangibles, and at the end of the day, he doesnt make the team any better, and the hard fact is subban was and is a way better player right now. 

Would Subban make us win now? he may or may not. i think our problems are deeper than any one player.

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51 minutes ago, ramcharger440 said:

Would Subban make us win now? he may or may not. i think our problems are deeper than any one player.

Agreed with this. Subban would without a doubt be an upgrade on Weber right now, but Subban's had his own injury issues slowing him down this year. Even with Subban, we'd still be short on the left side of the D. The Habs seem to be hopeful Romanov or Brook are going to be able to step in sooner rather than later, but for now, the left side is a mess. If by some chance the Habs manage to win a draft lottery slot, they'd definitely have to have a look at Bowen Byram. He's projected to go in the 3-7 range, so he won't be there are 14 or 15.

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On 3/17/2019 at 4:35 PM, jeff33 said:

said it when it happened, and its more true with every day that passes:

one of the worst trades we have ever made.

Its a little annoying to me actually how much of a pass this guy gets. Granted he broke the 10 goal barrier, which is good, but the PP is in last place, which he is apparently a specialist at quarterbacking.  Outside of that, he is slow even when hes at 100%, and when he inevitably gets banged up like he has been for half the year and especially is right now, hes utterly immobile. 

Its now or never to trade him, which we should and for whatever we can get, but we won't, and it's frustrating.

First bold: yep.

Second bold: we're already up a creek on that.

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Statistically, Weber is having pretty much a standard as always kind of year. Maybe even above that. The improved play of not only Price, but Mete, Petry and even Benn since his return have to be noted. He is a strong leader and obviously respected by the whole team. 

Last and most important is his hockey intelligence . As the saying goes, no substitution for brains. Much like Chara he makes smart plays with the puck and without. The only people who do not make mistakes are people that do nothing. We are a much better team with Weber then without. Price is a much better goalie with Weber then without. He is on a long contract but actually does not make much money in the years to come. Worth every penny in my book. 

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1 hour ago, ramcharger440 said:

Yes on par with his usual all star level. bash on.

No, the usual middle-of-the-pack #3/fringe #2 (#2 on a mediocre team, like ours) that Weber has been capable of for the last six seasons.

You're witnessing what happens when a team tries to build around an obsolete play style. But it's always someone else's fault, eh?

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2 hours ago, habs_93 said:

No, the usual middle-of-the-pack #3/fringe #2 (#2 on a mediocre team, like ours) that Weber has been capable of for the last six seasons.

You're witnessing what happens when a team tries to build around an obsolete play style. But it's always someone else's fault, eh?

your right it is all Webber's fault. 

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Come on really he is not that bad he has had a flat spot but pretty much any veteran that misses the best part of a whole year is going to be having a drop off at some point when they come back mid year. and he would be first pairing on many many teams in the league but some just can't get over who he was traded for it is not his fault neither is his contract he is one of the two NHL level dmen on our team right now the rest are projects or learning the ropes the way i see it we are pretty lucky to have him.

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42 minutes ago, ramcharger440 said:

Come on really he is not that bad he has had a flat spot but pretty much any veteran that misses the best part of a whole year is going to be having a drop off at some point when they come back mid year. and he would be first pairing on many many teams in the league but some just can't get over who he was traded for it is not his fault neither is his contract he is one of the two NHL level dmen on our team right now the rest are projects or learning the ropes the way i see it we are pretty lucky to have him.

Sure, you could argue that Weber and Petry are the only NHL-level dman on our team.   The problem is thinking that Weber is a top pairing guy in today's NHL.   His lack of speed and maneuverability means in reality he is at best a #4-6 dman on MOST OTHER TEAMS.     His accomplishments and dominance in the past (f he ever was on his own, ie Josi and Suter before him), don't change the fact that at 33 years old he is slower and less capable of keeping up with the play than he used to be.     Combine that with the league overall moving towards speed vs size and Weber is becoming rapidly outdated.

For most of the season now he has been "chasing the play" rather than dictating it.    Watch him in his own zone, he looks no better than Benn most times, and he's now  50 games into the season, so rust doesn't explain it at all.      His anticipation  is still somewhat there but it's useless as his foot speed just isn't capable of keeping up with the cycle along the boards.  I actually cringe watching him in his own zone lately.   If the other team is speed and he's on the ice, we're hemmed in.    The only thing making him look decent is Mete and Mete's speed.     

All the things Weber was supposed to bring to us are simply not there ...

Slapshot ... yes, he's got a canon ... but it sure hasn't made a difference on our PP.

Crunching hits ... when's the last time you saw him throw a big hit?

Dominant defensively :

https://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/MTL/2019.html

With Weber on the ice our Corsi/Fenwcik etc are all worse 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2627881-is-the-nashville-predators-shea-weber-really-an-elite-defenseman

Nashville from 2012 to 2016 was no better with Weber on the bench or on the ice

Weber's biggest problem is and always has been he's horrible at transitions.   If the other team has the puck, historically he's good in his end to elite even.    But once he's recovered the puck he's mediocre in his ability to transition that to an offensive outcome ... this has become even worse with age as his foot speed slows.   Now he might prevent shots etc, but he many times he can't force a turnover etc like he used to.

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i have no problem seeing him as a top pairing defenseman. he is not as good as he used to be but he is still viable. when he first came back he was as good as he ever was then he went through a slump and many jumped on that to say he is done, he is not done he could use a better supporting cast. i remember many here saying we should trade Gally when he broke his hand the second time too fragile they said... guess not eh? others thought Domi was a horrible pick up for Galchenyuk the point is we just don't know how Webber will do in the next couple of years for sure once he hits 35-36 it will most likely be that he is too slow but Chara seems to be doing ok he is big old and slow......

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3 hours ago, ramcharger440 said:

Come on really he is not that bad he has had a flat spot but pretty much any veteran that misses the best part of a whole year is going to be having a drop off at some point when they come back mid year. and he would be first pairing on many many teams in the league but some just can't get over who he was traded for it is not his fault neither is his contract he is one of the two NHL level dmen on our team right now the rest are projects or learning the ropes the way i see it we are pretty lucky to have him.

My concern is, that Petry was killing it prior to Weber's return from his injury, and that his own production has gone down since.

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2 hours ago, ramcharger440 said:

i have no problem seeing him as a top pairing defenseman. he is not as good as he used to be but he is still viable. when he first came back he was as good as he ever was then he went through a slump and many jumped on that to say he is done, he is not done he could use a better supporting cast. i remember many here saying we should trade Gally when he broke his hand the second time too fragile they said... guess not eh? others thought Domi was a horrible pick up for Galchenyuk the point is we just don't know how Webber will do in the next couple of years for sure once he hits 35-36 it will most likely be that he is too slow but Chara seems to be doing ok he is big old and slow......

I'm somewhere between your point of view and that of a couple of the posters you were replying to. Last year, I thought Weber had a lot of difficulty. He obviously missed the start of this season, but he was very strong when he came back. For the past 4 weeks, he's been pedestrian and at times our worst defenceman, albeit I really don't know if he's playing hurt. He still has one of the best shots in the league, and he's a smart player, and I'm sure 31 coaches in the NHL would love to have him on their team. I'm not sure that he's a true #1 D man in the league, though, and I'm definitely doubtful he's a #1 guy 2 or 4 years from now.

Despite the fact I think we lost the Subban-Weber trade in the large majority of measurable statistics, that doesn't mean we should write Weber off as being bad. He's still an excellent player on most nights and he's a good #2 defenceman on most teams in the league. The problem this year is that despite his booming shot and goal totals, he's been beat because of a lack of footspeed and agility on many a night, and I'm not sure you can be a true #1 guy if you can't keep up with the faster offensive players in the league. I have the same questions when I look at a guy like Dustin Byfuglien. Great shot, big hitter, fantastic offensive defenceman, but he gets beat at the other end a decent amount too. It's what separates this type of player from the guys I view as true #1's, like Hedman, Subban, Josi, Doughty, and so on. Even Karlsson struggles in his own end more than commentators care to declare, but in the case of a guy like Karlsson, he drives puck possession and counter-attack so strongly that that in itself is also a great defensive tool, whereas Weber doesn't really do that.

So to me, he's a strong D man, and I'm happy to have him here. Ideally, he's not our #1 defenceman, but there's no doubt he's valuable.

 

2 hours ago, Habs=stanleycup said:

My concern is, that Petry was killing it prior to Weber's return from his injury, and that his own production has gone down since.

To some degree, you're right. Petry has managed to step up his game most of the times Weber has been out. Some guys thrive on getting more ice time and being the go-to guy, and Petry seems to be one of them. I'm not sure Petry's slump has as much to do with Weber being there though as it does what the coaches have done with his partners. Petry was paired with Reilly for a lot of the year and that partnership worked well for him. He's always played better with partners who can skate and move the puck, and Petry's biggest deficiency in my view is that he's not good at playing odd-man rushes against. So to have a mobile partner is important. Since Weber got back, Petry has seen a steady dose of Benn, Kulak, and Folin mixed into playing with Reilly. He even had a bit of Alzner as a partner I believe. So not only is being asked to carry dead weight as a partner, he's also been made to play with a rotating cast of characters, which hurts your ability to read each other's play and develop chemistry. So IMO, this isn't as much to do with Weber, it's more to do with the lack of depth on the Habs blue line to provide him with a useful partner and the coaching staff's questionable decision to split him up from Mike Reilly.

 

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11 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

I'm somewhere between your point of view and that of a couple of the posters you were replying to. Last year, I thought Weber had a lot of difficulty. He obviously missed the start of this season, but he was very strong when he came back. For the past 4 weeks, he's been pedestrian and at times our worst defenceman, albeit I really don't know if he's playing hurt. He still has one of the best shots in the league, and he's a smart player, and I'm sure 31 coaches in the NHL would love to have him on their team. I'm not sure that he's a true #1 D man in the league, though, and I'm definitely doubtful he's a #1 guy 2 or 4 years from now.

Despite the fact I think we lost the Subban-Weber trade in the large majority of measurable statistics, that doesn't mean we should write Weber off as being bad. He's still an excellent player on most nights and he's a good #2 defenceman on most teams in the league. The problem this year is that despite his booming shot and goal totals, he's been beat because of a lack of footspeed and agility on many a night, and I'm not sure you can be a true #1 guy if you can't keep up with the faster offensive players in the league. I have the same questions when I look at a guy like Dustin Byfuglien. Great shot, big hitter, fantastic offensive defenceman, but he gets beat at the other end a decent amount too. It's what separates this type of player from the guys I view as true #1's, like Hedman, Subban, Josi, Doughty, and so on. Even Karlsson struggles in his own end more than commentators care to declare, but in the case of a guy like Karlsson, he drives puck possession and counter-attack so strongly that that in itself is also a great defensive tool, whereas Weber doesn't really do that.

So to me, he's a strong D man, and I'm happy to have him here. Ideally, he's not our #1 defenceman, but there's no doubt he's valuable.

 

To some degree, you're right. Petry has managed to step up his game most of the times Weber has been out. Some guys thrive on getting more ice time and being the go-to guy, and Petry seems to be one of them. I'm not sure Petry's slump has as much to do with Weber being there though as it does what the coaches have done with his partners. Petry was paired with Reilly for a lot of the year and that partnership worked well for him. He's always played better with partners who can skate and move the puck, and Petry's biggest deficiency in my view is that he's not good at playing odd-man rushes against. So to have a mobile partner is important. Since Weber got back, Petry has seen a steady dose of Benn, Kulak, and Folin mixed into playing with Reilly. He even had a bit of Alzner as a partner I believe. So not only is being asked to carry dead weight as a partner, he's also been made to play with a rotating cast of characters, which hurts your ability to read each other's play and develop chemistry. So IMO, this isn't as much to do with Weber, it's more to do with the lack of depth on the Habs blue line to provide him with a useful partner and the coaching staff's questionable decision to split him up from Mike Reilly.

 

I totally agree with your view point about player chemistry which is extremely important. Perhaps that's why certain players such as Petry lose their way under the BIG shadows of certain players such as Weber, and therefore humbly bow out and let them lead.

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