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Just now, H_T_L said:

I've seen enough of Gardiner when he's healthy and IMO he's not worth what he's looking for. Now with that questionable back issue, there's no way I want to tie up money for a guy who likely plays at an even lower level. Back problems tend to make people cautious about their daily activities. Imagine if it was playing in the NHL I've never considered him a first pairing D-man despite the inflated numbers he may have had with a stacked team. I would much rather go for a sure thing by trade, even if it does cost us assets. Anything more then a year with this guy has Alzner written all over it. MMW

I kind of tend to agree. Sort of like Ghost also. Its' seems now any d that puts up some offensive numbers are automatically great guys 1st pairing. A 1st pairing better be the whole package an actual defenseman. Someone who can actually play defense first and the offense is a bonus. I don't believe Gardiner is good enough to warrant what he may want. He had good offensive numbers but that also was playing with a team with offensive stars! I'd be okay with a short term deal but I'm still not sold on him and wouldn't give him top dollar.

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3 hours ago, HabsAlways said:

It's like deja vu all over again ...

"Mete will be a top pairing guy"

"Beaulieu is going to be incredible"

"Jiri Sekac is the guy who will put us over the top"

"we should keep Halak over Price"

"we're gonna regret trading Colberg for an aging Vanek"

"Scherbak just needs an oppurtunity and he'll be a top 6 winger"

"Galchenyuk is just misused by the coaches" - heck I'm guilty of that one, ignoring the giant hole in his Vision/IQ 

"Christian Thomas is going to be a good goal scorer in NHL" ... 27 career NHL games.

Yannick Weber, Tinordi, Diaz, Tokarski, D'Agostini, Andrighetto

So many players over the years that people tend to look at through rose colored glasses .. look at that list above except Mete ... do you really miss ANY of those players?  Did they amount to anything in the NHL?

Mete has speed, good work ethic and excellent defensive awareness ... he does not however display any of the natural (you can't teach) vision or hockey IQ to be a top pairing guy.  He will have a good career but lets not fool ourselves into thinking that he will ever be more than what he is.

And seriously, I think it's time we lost the infatuation with Trevor Timmins ... look at our drafting from 2005 onwards

 

2005 Carey Price ... and then mediocrity in Latendresse, D'Agostini and SKositisyn.    

2006 our picks in the first 3 rounds ... Ryan White is the only guy who made it to the NHL really, the 1st and 2nd round picks were busts.

2007 Good year with McDonagh, Paccioretty, Subban and Yannick Weber ... but we also had 5 picks never make the NHL at all.

2008 - Not a single NHL game from any of our picks

2009 - a combined 138 NHL games from 8 picks

2010 - Tinordi with 53 NHL games, 2 4th rounders with 3 and we lucked out with Brendan Gallagher in the 5th round.

2011 - Beaulieu with 332 NHL games ... the other 6 picks have  13 all from one guy.

2012 - Galchenyuk has been soso ... Hudon in the 5th round, our 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounders never made it to the NHL.

2013 decent year ... but not exciting ... DeLaRose, Lehkonen, Andrighetto have all played about 200 NHL games each.    But McCArron, Fucale and Connnor Crips ... yuck

2014 ... checking the first round and most of these players are in their 2nd to 4th NHL year ...  we got Scherbak and Lernout ... combined 48 NHL games.

Sure we can blame it on SL as a coach in Hamilton/SJ/Laval ... but that's just some horrible drafting as well. .

 

 

I like how you outline the Habs drafting like it was so bad since 2005 but I don't think tour seeing the whole picture. Let's use the same year and look at the picks for the top team in the league this year Tampa

2005 saw them make 9 picks of those 9 3 made it to the NHL Blair Jones player 126 games and the other 2 played a total of 22 so bust.

2006 they made 4 picks of the 2 players played a total of 7 games so bust.

2007 they had 9 more picks of them Kilorn is the only notable player with 2 others making the NHL for a total of 145 games and by the way Killorn was picked in the 3rd round 77 OVA 

2008 only Stamkos and Babario are regular players in the NHL out of 8 more picks

2009 7 picks only Hedman and Panik are notable players.

2010 8 picks only Gudas and Connolly are NHLERS

2011 6 picks 4 NHL regulars and Peca great year for them

2012 8 picks 4 NHLers Vasalevski, Gusev, Koekkoek and Paquette not a bad draft

2013 6 picks 2 NHLers Erne and Drouin

2014 7 picks only Point is a regular

2015 9 picks only Cirelli has played in 100 games

2016 10 picks no NHLers 

2017 6 picks 0 NHL games played

2018 7 picks 0 NHL games played

Say what you want about our drafting but most teams have the same results 1 or 2 a year average make the NHL some years no one does other year 4 or 5 do But it is the same for every team in the league. 

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11 minutes ago, CaptWelly said:

I kind of tend to agree. Sort of like Ghost also. Its' seems now any d that puts up some offensive numbers are automatically great guys 1st pairing. A 1st pairing better be the whole package an actual defenseman. Someone who can actually play defense first and the offense is a bonus. I don't believe Gardiner is good enough to warrant what he may want. He had good offensive numbers but that also was playing with a team with offensive stars! I'd be okay with a short term deal but I'm still not sold on him and wouldn't give him top dollar.

Yup. To me I see a lot of similarities with the year we picked up Alzner. A lot of members wanted MB to go after him because he was one of the best available at the time. I remember the elation that some expressed when we signed him. How badly do we regret that move today? Gardiner may be the best available this year but that's more a result of a pile of crap being available. Do we really need to be adding another questionable guy to our roster? As I said,,, 1 year deal at best for cheap otherwise hard pass.I think i'll puke if we toss a 4 or 5 year deal at this guy.

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https://www.tsn.ca/nick-foligno-on-departures-you-don-t-leave-a-good-team-to-try-to-find-another-one-1.1348946

Excerpt: 

General manager Jarmo Kekalainen went all-in prior to February's trade deadline, not only acquiring Duchene, winger Ryan Dzingel, defenceman Adam McQuaid and backup netminder Keith Kinkaid, but also hanging onto Panarin and Bobrovsky knowing they could walk for nothing.

The gamble, which involved a number of draft picks and prospects exiting the asset cupboard, was only successful up to a certain point, but Foligno agreed the time was right to make a push.

"I'd much rather have a GM that's trying to win than one that's trying to plan and be strategic," he said. "You want a guy that's not afraid to take calculated risks and is in the trenches with you."

 

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1 hour ago, campabee82 said:

 

Say what you want about our drafting but most teams have the same results 1 or 2 a year average make the NHL some years no one does other year 4 or 5 do But it is the same for every team in the league. 

Correct . But every year on this forum we read about how people think the Habs have these great prospects , they are stacked on  D , they got a bunch of up and coming C's  etc etc

No one knows  if Romanov , Fleury , Brook , Suzuki, Poehling  Juulsen , Olofsson,  Leskinen are going to be NHL'ers .

We’ve got a great future with our prospects,” Price said a couple of weeks back. “But when I think of it, I kind of think back over the course of my career and seeing so many players come and go. So it’s good to have depth in your system, but for me personally, being on the ice, it’s kind of irrelevant until I see somebody in the lineup, you know?”

 

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Can someone explain why markov isn't getting a one year deal...our bozo gm signed mark striet and plekanec both to 1 year deals they didn't play 1 game...bergevin is a arrogant jerk...resigns Thompson signs nick cousins get real...markov deserves a try out at least or give him 1year 1.5mil with bonuses...hes played his whole career in Montreal he deserves a little more respect 

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3 hours ago, Fanhab81 said:

Can someone explain why markov isn't getting a one year deal...our bozo gm signed mark striet and plekanec both to 1 year deals they didn't play 1 game...bergevin is a arrogant jerk...resigns Thompson signs nick cousins get real...markov deserves a try out at least or give him 1year 1.5mil with bonuses...hes played his whole career in Montreal he deserves a little more respect 

This would not be such a bad idea really... a look could bring about a surprise. That said, I think it is highly unlikely it happens.

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10 hours ago, H_T_L said:

Yup. To me I see a lot of similarities with the year we picked up Alzner. A lot of members wanted MB to go after him because he was one of the best available at the time. I remember the elation that some expressed when we signed him. How badly do we regret that move today? Gardiner may be the best available this year but that's more a result of a pile of crap being available. Do we really need to be adding another questionable guy to our roster? As I said,,, 1 year deal at best for cheap otherwise hard pass.I think i'll puke if we toss a 4 or 5 year deal at this guy.

Hey HTL... would you choose Markov at 40 before Gardiner? Just wondering...

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14 minutes ago, Habs_Hockey_Nutz said:

Hey HTL... would you choose Markov at 40 before Gardiner? Just wondering...

Love Marky but NO. Haven't seen Marky play for 2 years and at 40 that would be concerning. I'd offer him a PTO though to see whats still there. He claims to be in great shape.

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10 hours ago, Regis22 said:

Correct . But every year on this forum we read about how people think the Habs have these great prospects , they are stacked on  D , they got a bunch of up and coming C's  etc etc

No one knows  if Romanov , Fleury , Brook , Suzuki, Poehling  Juulsen , Olofsson,  Leskinen are going to be NHL'ers .

We’ve got a great future with our prospects,” Price said a couple of weeks back. “But when I think of it, I kind of think back over the course of my career and seeing so many players come and go. So it’s good to have depth in your system, but for me personally, being on the ice, it’s kind of irrelevant until I see somebody in the lineup, you know?”

 

And I agree with this but I was more saying that our drafting hasn't been as bad as everyone thinks. Did you know in the 10 year period listed above we have drafted 16 players who have played more than 150 games while Tampa has only drafted 14. Yes more of Tampas are stars but more were top 5 picks as well. So our drafting is on par with theirs just the quality drops off throughout the draft so much that by the time we picked the chances of getting a good player are slim. Also the development of the players was questionable at best. While our prospects definitely make the future look bright like you said until they make it to the NHL they are just another prospect with potential.

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13 hours ago, H_T_L said:

Yup. To me I see a lot of similarities with the year we picked up Alzner. A lot of members wanted MB to go after him because he was one of the best available at the time. I remember the elation that some expressed when we signed him. How badly do we regret that move today? Gardiner may be the best available this year but that's more a result of a pile of crap being available. Do we really need to be adding another questionable guy to our roster? As I said,,, 1 year deal at best for cheap otherwise hard pass.I think i'll puke if we toss a 4 or 5 year deal at this guy.

My memory may be wrong but I seem to remember that signing coming out of nowhere and everyone going OH GOD NO. I dont see them being similar, gardiner can actually put up points. alzner was a defensive dman who was already going off a cliff in washington. that said anything more than a 2 year deal im not interested

7 hours ago, Fanhab81 said:

Can someone explain why markov isn't getting a one year deal...our bozo gm signed mark striet and plekanec both to 1 year deals they didn't play 1 game...bergevin is a arrogant jerk...resigns Thompson signs nick cousins get real...markov deserves a try out at least or give him 1year 1.5mil with bonuses...hes played his whole career in Montreal he deserves a little more respect 

he deserved respect the first time his contract ran out. that was one of bargain boys biggest punk low class moments. at this point theres no point, he's finished. yeah he made those streit and plek deals, those were pathetic. def not precedent to do it again

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59 minutes ago, jeff33 said:

 yeah he made those streit and plek deals, those were pathetic. def not precedent to do it again

The thing is MB absolutely did set the precedent to resign Markov to hit the 1000 game platue with Montreal when he did it for the other 2. He stated that Pleks was a big part of the organization and that was why he brought him back to retire as a Hab.  There is no arguing that Pleks was a leader and big part of the team but Markov was as big of a part of the team and should be afforded the same gratuities. MB is just too pigheaded and it has nothing to do with what Markov did for the team or his leadership and everything to do with MB's hurt feelings and he is acting like a 2 year old about it. I personally think we should give Markov the 1 year contract let him play the 10 games and if it isn't working or there is better options agree to mutually terminate it like with Pleks. Kind of like you do with rookies after camp. You never know maybe Markov, Chiarot and Mete are the best options we have. I don't see the harm in at least giving him the 10 games.

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1 hour ago, jeff33 said:

My memory may be wrong but I seem to remember that signing coming out of nowhere and everyone going OH GOD NO. I dont see them being similar, gardiner can actually put up points. alzner was a defensive dman who was already going off a cliff in washington. that said anything more than a 2 year deal im not interested

 

It did come out of nowhere because we didn't expect to be in the running for him as I recall. There were quite a few members excited in here that MB had finally been able to land a UFA supposed stud D-man.

Your right that he has put up points. Hard not to with that forward group IMO. You don't think a guy like Petry would have had inflated totals playing over there? I stand by my earlier statement that this guy is at best a second pairing D-man, and with his questionable back issues,,,, even that is a stretch. I respect everybody's opinion about him in here but I've seen too much of this guy and talked to too many Leaf fans to think otherwise. They won't miss him in T.O.

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8 hours ago, Fanhab81 said:

Can someone explain why markov isn't getting a one year deal...our bozo gm signed mark striet and plekanec both to 1 year deals they didn't play 1 game...bergevin is a arrogant jerk...resigns Thompson signs nick cousins get real...markov deserves a try out at least or give him 1year 1.5mil with bonuses...hes played his whole career in Montreal he deserves a little more respect 

Because he's slower than molasses!!!

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2 minutes ago, habs1952 said:

Because he's slower than molasses!!!

I would say a PTO couldn't hurt. Markov actually was a good skater and what really matters has a great hockey IQ. His passes were always excellent. A crisp headman pass to a moving forward is always faster than any defenseman skating a puck out of the zone. His passing is also what made Subban and others great goal scores on the PP. His passes were usually well placed and flat. He also always had great vision. With our group of speedy forwards he actually "might" make a difference.

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6 minutes ago, habs1952 said:

Because he's slower than molasses!!!

I will admit I haven't seen him play since leaving the Habs but most analysts I have heard have said while he has lost a step he is still a top 4 Dman on most teams. Even if he is slower than molasses so was Pleks and he was still signed and everyone was happy he got to 1000 with the habs

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4 minutes ago, CaptWelly said:

I would say a PTO couldn't hurt. Markov actually was a good skater and what really matters has a great hockey IQ. His passes were always excellent. A crisp headman pass to a moving forward is always faster than any defenseman skating a puck out of the zone. His passing is also what made Subban and others great goal scores on the PP. His passes were usually well placed and flat. He also always had great vision. With our group of speedy forwards he actually "might" make a difference.

I definitely would want to see him on a PTO before any consideration of a contract. If he refuses then so be it.

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8 hours ago, CaptWelly said:

I would say a PTO couldn't hurt. Markov actually was a good skater and what really matters has a great hockey IQ. His passes were always excellent. A crisp headman pass to a moving forward is always faster than any defenseman skating a puck out of the zone. His passing is also what made Subban and others great goal scores on the PP. His passes were usually well placed and flat. He also always had great vision. With our group of speedy forwards he actually "might" make a difference.

Hockey IQ gets thrown out the window when speedy players zip by you leaving your D-partner and goalie defending 2 on 1's all night. I can't imagine how many 2 on 1's we'd give up on the power play if Markov was on the ice with Weber. Not signing him is a no-brainer. 

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13 hours ago, habs1952 said:

Hockey IQ gets thrown out the window when speedy players zip by you leaving your D-partner and goalie defending 2 on 1's all night. I can't imagine how many 2 on 1's we'd give up on the power play if Markov was on the ice with Weber. Not signing him is a no-brainer. 

You mean EXACTLY like they do with Weber. All too often we see players whip right by Weber when Mete has pinched in and then Mete has to use his speed to get back into the play so it's not a breakaway or 2 on 0. Also Markov may have lost a step but there is ABSOLUTELY no way he can ever be as slow as Weber even on one leg. As for your last sentence there is a simple solution DON'T play Weber and Markov on the same PP unit WOW that was hard to come up with I am so exhausted by trying to figure that solution out. I will add though that the last thing we need is another Dman without moving someone out.

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This rebuild, retool, or whatever MB and ownership wants us to believe has to stop. Trade some assets and fill some spots on the roster and feed the farm. Weber and Price could get a decent return. Believe it or not, its better to trade for them sooner than later before either one of them or both demand out of here and then we are dealing from a DISADVANTAGE, again!!

 

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33 minutes ago, habby67 said:

This rebuild, retool, or whatever MB and ownership wants us to believe has to stop. Trade some assets and fill some spots on the roster and feed the farm. Weber and Price could get a decent return. Believe it or not, its better to trade for them sooner than later before either one of them or both demand out of here and then we are dealing from a DISADVANTAGE, again!!

 

That makes no sense if you trade Price what is left? Who plays Goal full time? While I agree Weber is past his prime already if we trade him now then we are creating a hole on the right to go with the one on the left. We would really shoot ourselves in the foot as far as contending goes. 

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11 hours ago, campabee82 said:

You mean EXACTLY like they do with Weber. All too often we see players whip right by Weber when Mete has pinched in and then Mete has to use his speed to get back into the play so it's not a breakaway or 2 on 0. Also Markov may have lost a step but there is ABSOLUTELY no way he can ever be as slow as Weber even on one leg. As for your last sentence there is a simple solution DON'T play Weber and Markov on the same PP unit WOW that was hard to come up with I am so exhausted by trying to figure that solution out. I will add though that the last thing we need is another Dman without moving someone out.

Markov has lost more than a step. He was slow 3 years ago. 

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