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2019-20 State Of The Habs


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Seems to me that although we are far from leading the standings, we’re still right in the mix of things. If we were to trade Price or Weber or even Petry (to a lesser extent) it would send a horrible message to the rest of he team. To just toss in the towel? This early? I’m not saying we’re going to win the Cup with what we have, but it seems to me that despite our position in the standings, we have a very healthy locker room. Great attitudes, zero toxicity. For management to quit on the team, never mind the rest of this season, the attitudes might never recover. Culture maters, the players need to believe that they are believed in. It would be different if we were bottom feeding, or if it were closer to the deadline. 

More specifically, of the three Petry would probably be the likeliest option. I would have considered shopping Petry (and Tatar) in the off-season. I think both of their values might have been at their peak then. We could probably pull of a Petry trade with minimal negative impact on the team, but what’s coming back has to be more than just future assets. Something that could help right away, along with futures would be ideal.

Weber would be a huge deal, and I don’t think it should be done unless missing the playoffs is a sealed deal. And even then, it had ought to be one heck of a haul. 

Price, lol good luck. I love the guy, but who has room or interest for a $10.5 goalie? Especially if we’re talking about teams that are in the conversation about going all in. Even if was was the best goalie in the game, I just can’t see it happening. And honestly, I doubt he’s even in the top ten. Also, we can’t even ice a decent back-up. So just like with Weber, we’d better be guaranteed to miss the playoffs before we make a move like that. 

All in all it just seems a little dramatic for a team that, like so many of us on here acknowledge regularly, is just short a couple of pieces. When we’re able to make three consecutive passes (consistently) throughout any game, there isn’t a team in the league that we can’t beat. And that’s without the missing pieces. I say let’s just see how the next month and a half play out, then revisit whether or not we should shop around Weber and/or Petry.

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38 minutes ago, claremont said:

Now the interesting questions, are 1) who is easier to trade Weber - 7 yr and does not have a ntc Vs Price -7 year higher value and a to be waived ntc 2) who would be the interested parties 3) what value do we get back vs retaining salary 

I find it highly improbable that both could be moved within a one year period as one of them would be needed for continued leadership

my guess is Islanders or Winnipeg depending on Byfuglien could be attracted to Weber  

1) Weber for sure, I seriously think Price is untradable. (Barring retaining salary, which i’ll get to at 3)

2) Who wouldn’t be interested? I assume any team with serious aspirations for the Cup would be super interested. And I don’t think Weber’s contract would be an issue. By today’s standards, it’s not all that hefty of a cap hit. The term left on it extends far past when he’ll likely retire, and I believe Nashville is on the hook for anything beyond that point. Question is, would they be willing to meet our asking price? Which brings me to...

3) I’d expect one heck of a package coming back. I’m talking multiple first rounders, a tip top prospect, and either an active quality player or multiple second round picks (or a combination of both). And under no circumstances should we retain a penny of salary, zero.

Just my thoughts :) 

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5 minutes ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

1) Weber for sure, I seriously think Price is untradable. (Barring retaining salary, which i’ll get to at 3)

2) Who wouldn’t be interested? I assume any team with serious aspirations for the Cup would be super interested. And I don’t think Weber’s contract would be an issue. By today’s standards, it’s not all that hefty of a cap hit. The term left on it extends far past when he’ll likely retire, and I believe Nashville is on the hook for anything beyond that point. Question is, would they be willing to meet our asking price? Which brings me to...

3) I’d expect one heck of a package coming back. I’m talking multiple first rounders, a tip top prospect, and either an active quality player or multiple second round picks (or a combination of both). And under no circumstances should we retain a penny of salary, zero.

Just my thoughts :) 

Agree with pretty much everything you said about weber.  Regarding the bolded part,  Webers salary = Alzner + Weise + Peca... and yes, he's 34 but he's also 3rd in the NHL in goals by a defensman & top 10 in scoring by a defensman.  There would  definitely be teams out there that would love to add them to their roster. 

Price... im not sure id call him "untradable" but i think the return would be very underwhelming.  If we managed to move vets for youth, we might actually need price's salary to get to the cap floor and i dont think he'd be bad, just bad value. He's still a top 10 goalie (i know the stats dont jive but try putting him on a real team & Im sure they would) but he's no longer super saiyan Price. 

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26 minutes ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

Seems to me that although we are far from leading the standings, we’re still right in the mix of things. If we were to trade Price or Weber or even Petry (to a lesser extent) it would send a horrible message to the rest of he team. To just toss in the towel? This early? I’m not saying we’re going to win the Cup with what we have, but it seems to me that despite our position in the standings, we have a very healthy locker room. Great attitudes, zero toxicity. For management to quit on the team, never mind the rest of this season, the attitudes might never recover. Culture maters, the players need to believe that they are believed in. It would be different if we were bottom feeding, or if it were closer to the deadline. 

I do agree to an extent. I think this team should consider moving... well anyone.. but some of the vets who seem unlikely to be in peak form when the youth of our core are, make a lot of sense.  However I know what you're saying.  We had an abysmal losing streak but somehow we're still in a playoff race.  If they can turn it around now, im not opposed to following through on this season & continuing to retool the roster in the summer. I think you'd get a better return for some players then. 

26 minutes ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

More specifically, of the three Petry would probably be the likeliest option. I would have considered shopping Petry (and Tatar) in the off-season. I think both of their values might have been at their peak then. We could probably pull of a Petry trade with minimal negative impact on the team, but what’s coming back has to be more than just future assets. Something that could help right away, along with futures would be ideal.

Agree.  IMHO MB has probably not even considered trading Weber or Price. Id be surprised if he hasnt kicked tires to see what Petry is worth though. 

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13 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Price... im not sure id call him "untradable" but i think the return would be very underwhelming.  If we managed to move vets for youth, we might actually need price's salary to get to the cap floor and i dont think he'd be bad, just bad value. He's still a top 10 goalie (i know the stats dont jive but try putting him on a real team & Im sure they would) but he's no longer super saiyan Price. 

I don’t know... 10.5. And all of that term is well within his plausible playing lifespan. Highly unlikely he retires before that contract is up. With the exception of Bobrovaki (10) and Lundvquist (8.5) the next highest salary for a goalie is Marc Andre Fleury and Tuka Rask (7). Every other goalie slots in under that. I’m surprised that Bobrovaki landed double digits. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that all of the goalies with rings on their fingers make 7 or less. And then you have to factor in the NTC, good luck. Vancouver, maybe, but that’s only if they’ve totally forgotten the Louongo debacle. I suppose, your right in the minimum return idea, because we would almost certainly have to pay to have someone take his contract. 

And I don’t mean to sound negative when I say he’s not top ten. I think he’s a solid, above average starting goaltender. But I don’t think he’s been statistically top ten in a long time. And he’s not known for his post season heroics either. I think you could consider a goalie top ten despite poor stats if he has a little “big moment magic” up his sleeves, but unfortunately for us, he hasn’t had either. Top twenty, definitely. Top fifteen, maybe. Top ten, that’s a tough sell. 

Regardless, I do think we can win with him. I just can’t imagine we’ll ever trade him.

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17 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I believe Peca is injured now, too.

 I don't usually comment on refereeing but Malkin should have gotten something for literally attacking Peca and then sitting him causing an injury ...KK being slewed didn't pass the smell test either ….2 injuries 2 missed calls 

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38 minutes ago, arpem-can said:

 I don't usually comment on refereeing but Malkin should have gotten something for literally attacking Peca and then sitting him causing an injury ...KK being slewed didn't pass the smell test either ….2 injuries 2 missed calls 

Hockey is a fast game & i can see how calls get missed. What really upsets me is when there is no supplemental discipline.  Zadorov's hit on JK was the very definition of slewfooting.  He should have had a minimum of a couple of games.  If that is not intent to injure then im not sure what is:  Pin a guy's shoulders against the boards & then kick out his legs & let go.  You know there's a 50/50 chance he's landing on his head, off balance. 

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4 hours ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

Lol after last nights game I felt like I should edit that statement slightly. Well above average goalie. :) 

 

The last couple of years he's had bad Novembers but than come back strong , why I have know clue? I really hope the kid gets some games and plays well. Then Price can be well rested and get more practice time. He does always seem to play a little better when there's a little completion also.

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59 minutes ago, CaptWelly said:

The last couple of years he's had bad Novembers but than come back strong , why I have know clue? I really hope the kid gets some games and plays well. Then Price can be well rested and get more practice time. He does always seem to play a little better when there's a little completion also.

Yep then next year the kid can play the whole month of November.

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1 hour ago, 26NCounting said:

I am more surprised no one on the habs team did a single thing about the hit on KK.  I would have thought one of our 4th line plugs could atleast step up and give him a tussle to show some heart but there was nothing. 

Zadorov was wearing a face shield.. what can someone do at that point? 

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4 hours ago, maas_art said:

Hockey is a fast game & i can see how calls get missed. What really upsets me is when there is no supplemental discipline.  Zadorov's hit on JK was the very definition of slewfooting.  He should have had a minimum of a couple of games.  If that is not intent to injure then im not sure what is:  Pin a guy's shoulders against the boards & then kick out his legs & let go.  You know there's a 50/50 chance he's landing on his head, off balance. 

In real time  the slew knee was a tricky little play that wasn't easy to see and the subsequent throw down was all in the same motion ..a further review would have shown this  ..the fact that Jesper is out with a concussion from this dangerous play justifies punishment even if they deem Zadorov's  "intent"  wasn't there ...so we are to assume that it's now ok in today's NHL to slew a guy and throw him awkwardly to the ice head -first causing a possible life-threatening injury ? ...they go after coaches for verbal abuse now but not this ?..really ?

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16 minutes ago, arpem-can said:

In real time  the slew knee was a tricky little play that wasn't easy to see and the subsequent throw down was all in the same motion ..a further review would have shown this  ..the fact that Jesper is out with a concussion from this dangerous play justifies punishment even if they deem Zadorov's  "intent"  wasn't there ...so we are to assume that it's now ok in today's NHL to slew a guy and throw him awkwardly to the ice head -first causing a possible life-threatening injury ? ...they go after coaches for verbal abuse now but not this ?..really ?

I don't think too many of us had a problem with the missed call on the ice. As you mentioned it happened quickly. CJ made a point in his presser that the League needed to look at it and it's obvious they just shirked it off. That's the disgusting part of the whole thing.

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3 hours ago, 26NCounting said:

I am more surprised no one on the habs team did a single thing about the hit on KK.  I would have thought one of our 4th line plugs could atleast step up and give him a tussle to show some heart but there was nothing. 

I think the problem is we don’t have anyone on the team to take care of that sort of business. All four of our lines are built for speed and skill. We have a few players with grit, that hit (Fleury throws some bombs!), but who’s going to drop the gloves? Thompson? Well? Cousins? Peca? I haven’t seen anything from Chairot that suggests he’s the guy for that. 

The last thing we want to try to do is attempt to rebuild the Broadstreet Bullies, but this is an area that warrants attention. What happens when (if) we run into Washington, Boston, NYR in the playoffs? Who’s going to keep the likes of Wilson, Marchand, Lemieux in check?

I suggest kicking the tires on Lemieux. Any guesses what that would cost us? That guy is a beaut! I’d love to see him mixed into our bottom six somewhere. The guys got some hands too!

 

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4 hours ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

I think the problem is we don’t have anyone on the team to take care of that sort of business. All four of our lines are built for speed and skill. We have a few players with grit, that hit (Fleury throws some bombs!), but who’s going to drop the gloves? Thompson? Well? Cousins? Peca? I haven’t seen anything from Chairot that suggests he’s the guy for that. 

The last thing we want to try to do is attempt to rebuild the Broadstreet Bullies, but this is an area that warrants attention. What happens when (if) we run into Washington, Boston, NYR in the playoffs? Who’s going to keep the likes of Wilson, Marchand, Lemieux in check?

I suggest kicking the tires on Lemieux. Any guesses what that would cost us? That guy is a beaut! I’d love to see him mixed into our bottom six somewhere. The guys got some hands too!

 

A lot of forum members would be up in arms if we had an 'enforcer'.

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