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Jake Allen


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2 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

Washington's 3rd to boot.

Yup. The pick we got for Kovalchuk.  If we do end up re-signing him this 'offseason' then we basically got Allen for no cost other than Kovalchuk for 7 regular season games (although it would have been really nice to have had him against the flyers...) 

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12 minutes ago, pcharnish said:

I may be thinking a year ahead but I think it will get interesting because the habs  might be in a situation to have to protect 2 goalies in the expansion draft I know it's not this off season but next off season meaning price and premeau

I dont think  you can protect 2 goalies and Primeau is not eligible to be drafted in expanison

What we do need to do is re-sign Lindgren or perhaps Allen, so that one is available to be drafted (you have to do this)

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7 minutes ago, pcharnish said:

I thought for some reason primeau contract would be up by then but maybe I'm wrong I was wondering we'd need to protect both him and price

All players who have accrued two or less professional seasons at the end of the 2020-21 season, as well as all unsigned draft choices appearing on the teams reserve list, will be exempt from the upcoming expansion draft.

So he's safe.
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43 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

I think we give up a 3rd and 7th.

The guy played 24 games with decent numbers. I can live with this deal. Solves our backup situation for this year and gives Primeau another year to develop.

I like it.  A salary dump by the Blues.  For one year, it is doable. Should be an excellent backup, allowing Carey to stay at the top of his game.  We still have room to make futiure moves, albeit we will have to move some salary, if we take one on.  We have prospects, draft picks and many fourth liners to package. Plus Domi, Drouin & Byron.Fingers crossed!  Bergevin keeps making the right decisions. I'll give him a green check mark for this trade.  2 to go.

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Just now, maas_art said:

Yup. The pick we got for Kovalchuk.  If we do end up re-signing him this 'offseason' then we basically got Allen for no cost other than Kovalchuk for 7 regular season games (although it would have been really nice to have had him against the flyers...) 

Both teams win  in this deal. IMO,,,, the Blues get their cap relief and we plug a big hole for virtually nothing but cap space,,,,, something we let waste the last couple years. As far as i know, we still have our 3rd, which is a higher pick then the Caps 3rd, and the 7th was the Hawks

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This is a really good move for a lot of reasons.

Next season will be played over a shorter period, so a backup who can win games and give Price a rest is a must.

Lot of teams in need of a goalie so cost to get one will only go up as we get closer to season start.

If Allen plays like he always has his worth at next trade deadline will be very high. 

This gives Primeau a chance to play number 1 in Laval for a whole season. Lindgren needs to go.

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I know people dislike MB but this is why I like him

Considering this trade and the 3rd rounder was for dumping Kovalchuk who is likely coming back, its a complete win

And consider this, the team we trade with, we have their 2nd this year and their 4th next year, for Marco Scandella, who I believe we got for a 4th round pick to begin with. 

We're unlikely to be winners next year, but bit by bit this team is getting better

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Just now, tony5775 said:

This is a really good move for a lot of reasons.

Next season will be played over a shorter period, so a backup who can win games and give Price a rest is a must.

Lot of teams in need of a goalie so cost to get one will only go up as we get closer to season start.

If Allen plays like he always has his worth at next trade deadline will be very high. 

This gives Primeau a chance to play number 1 in Laval for a whole season. Lindgren needs to go.

Thats something i didnt even consider, it will definitely be a condensed schedule which makes the back up even more important next year

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Just now, habsisme said:

I know people dislike MB but this is why I like him

Considering this trade and the 3rd rounder was for dumping Kovalchuk who is likely coming back, its a complete win

And consider this, the team we trade with, we have their 2nd this year and their 4th next year, for Marco Scandella, who I believe we got for a 4th round pick to begin with. 

We're unlikely to be winners next year, but bit by bit this team is getting better

I'm in the dump him camp but he is capable of making the odd decent transaction. There's just too many areas where he gets a fail to overcome the occasional good move.

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So we need some goal scoring and defensive help and we trade for a GOALIE?!?!?!

 

MB is out to lunch, the FA for goalies is really deep this year, could have had a backup much cheaper than this. 

However the next question I have is, does this mean next year we expose Price to Seattle is the expansion draft????

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I think targeting Allen as a back-up is a good idea. He's got experience, he's been a starter, but he's also played the role of a back-up and knows how to come in without much playing time. So he fits the prototype of what we would need. His salary in itself is extremely steep for a back-up, especially when your starter is making 10+M a year though. It's not like we're a team with two 4M goalies, we now have 15M tied up in the net. Yes, Allen's contract expires in a year, but this was also a big salary dump for St. Louis, who were paying Allen starter money to be a back-up and needed cap space to re-sign Pietrangelo. So with that in mind, I really feel like Bergevin gave up too much in this deal. This would be like us trading away Alzner for a 5th rounder. Maybe it's not a huge return, but it's still surprising to get a return of any sort when the move clearly helps the team dumping salary. You look at the Armia trade, you look at the Marleau trade, you look at a bunch of others like that, and teams clearly value salary cap space as a trade asset. I think MB used his cap space very poorly here. When I saw we acquired Allen without knowing the return, part of me felt like St. Louis should have been giving up another asset to make that trade, not the other way around. So on paper, it fills a huge hole for us and in the long run, we're better off post-trade than pre-trade, but it's like some of the other deals MB has made, where you kind of feel like he didn't maximize his assets (in this case cap space).

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2 minutes ago, 26NCounting said:

So we need some goal scoring and defensive help and we trade for a GOALIE?!?!?!

 

MB is out to lunch, the FA for goalies is really deep this year, could have had a backup much cheaper than this. 

However the next question I have is, does this mean next year we expose Price to Seattle is the draft????

I hear Kinkaid is available.:ph34r::frech1:

I can almost bet my house that Price won't be exposed.

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4 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

I'm in the dump him camp but he is capable of making the odd decent transaction. There's just too many areas where he gets a fail to overcome the occasional good move.

Agreed!  Bergevin lets things get personal.  No room in management for that. Unfortunately, if we have to be stuck with him, I really hope he keeps making more good decisions than bad. Time will tell.

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Also, to address a few other points:

1. Yes, we only gave up the 3rd rounder we got for Kovalchuk, but until this trade, we still had that 3rd rounder. You can't just pretend we never had it. That would be like saying we traded Shaw away for two picks but if Shaw ended up retiring from concussions, those picks are just free picks that we should give away and we'd be net even. It doesn't work like that. Until today, we had an extra 3rd rounder. Now we don't. Are we better off where we were with the 3rd rounder or with Allen? I think money aside, we're better off with Allen, but like I said in my last post, the size of that contract should have meant we got compensated for taking it on.

2. This move doesn't affect Price's ED status. Price has a NMC and would have to agree to be exposed firstly. Second, Allen is a UFA and he's nowhere close to Price in terms of caliber of goalie. If Allen wants to stay past next year, he'll likely have to take a significant pay cut and if he re-signs before the ED, he is the one who'll be exposed.

3. We don't know what next season will look like. Yes, it may be a shortened season with an intense schedule. It might also end up being a 48-game season. It might be canceled altogether, in which case we've just given away a 3rd rounder for nothing. I posted a week ago that impending UFA's should theoretically have less value right now because the acquiring team is risking that they never get to use the player they paid for. Another reason why MB overpaid in this trade.

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2 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

I hear Kinkaid is available.:ph34r::frech1:

I can almost bet my house that Price won't be exposed.

Kinkaid's contract is already done. Allen and Lindgren are both UFA after this season coming up. So Habs will need to sign someone prior to the ED to have a goalie counted to be exposed or else they face a penalty for not meeting the criteria.

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5 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

I think targeting Allen as a back-up is a good idea. He's got experience, he's been a starter, but he's also played the role of a back-up and knows how to come in without much playing time. So he fits the prototype of what we would need. His salary in itself is extremely steep for a back-up, especially when your starter is making 10+M a year though. It's not like we're a team with two 4M goalies, we now have 15M tied up in the net. Yes, Allen's contract expires in a year, but this was also a big salary dump for St. Louis, who were paying Allen starter money to be a back-up and needed cap space to re-sign Pietrangelo. So with that in mind, I really feel like Bergevin gave up too much in this deal. This would be like us trading away Alzner for a 5th rounder. Maybe it's not a huge return, but it's still surprising to get a return of any sort when the move clearly helps the team dumping salary. You look at the Armia trade, you look at the Marleau trade, you look at a bunch of others like that, and teams clearly value salary cap space as a trade asset. I think MB used his cap space very poorly here. When I saw we acquired Allen without knowing the return, part of me felt like St. Louis should have been giving up another asset to make that trade, not the other way around. So on paper, it fills a huge hole for us and in the long run, we're better off post-trade than pre-trade, but it's like some of the other deals MB has made, where you kind of feel like he didn't maximize his assets (in this case cap space).

True to an extent, although Jake Allen is a very good goalie and  is going to be a very good backup.  Not sure if his contract had any movement clauses and I still believe Bergevin has some more moves planned. I believe he will address the LD and hopefully a scoring winger.  Remember, they don't grow on trees.

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5 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

I think targeting Allen as a back-up is a good idea. He's got experience, he's been a starter, but he's also played the role of a back-up and knows how to come in without much playing time. So he fits the prototype of what we would need. His salary in itself is extremely steep for a back-up, especially when your starter is making 10+M a year though. It's not like we're a team with two 4M goalies, we now have 15M tied up in the net. Yes, Allen's contract expires in a year, but this was also a big salary dump for St. Louis, who were paying Allen starter money to be a back-up and needed cap space to re-sign Pietrangelo. So with that in mind, I really feel like Bergevin gave up too much in this deal. This would be like us trading away Alzner for a 5th rounder. Maybe it's not a huge return, but it's still surprising to get a return of any sort when the move clearly helps the team dumping salary. You look at the Armia trade, you look at the Marleau trade, you look at a bunch of others like that, and teams clearly value salary cap space as a trade asset. I think MB used his cap space very poorly here. When I saw we acquired Allen without knowing the return, part of me felt like St. Louis should have been giving up another asset to make that trade, not the other way around. So on paper, it fills a huge hole for us and in the long run, we're better off post-trade than pre-trade, but it's like some of the other deals MB has made, where you kind of feel like he didn't maximize his assets (in this case cap space).

But but but,,, ,trades are hard. If we had another GM i could see the cap space usage being an issue. This GM likes to sit on his, so as long as he's in charge, i don't see this deal hurting us in the long term. Not sure we could have traded for this kind of quality for cheaper.

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8 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

I think targeting Allen as a back-up is a good idea. He's got experience, he's been a starter, but he's also played the role of a back-up and knows how to come in without much playing time. So he fits the prototype of what we would need. His salary in itself is extremely steep for a back-up, especially when your starter is making 10+M a year though. It's not like we're a team with two 4M goalies, we now have 15M tied up in the net. Yes, Allen's contract expires in a year, but this was also a big salary dump for St. Louis, who were paying Allen starter money to be a back-up and needed cap space to re-sign Pietrangelo. So with that in mind, I really feel like Bergevin gave up too much in this deal. This would be like us trading away Alzner for a 5th rounder. Maybe it's not a huge return, but it's still surprising to get a return of any sort when the move clearly helps the team dumping salary. You look at the Armia trade, you look at the Marleau trade, you look at a bunch of others like that, and teams clearly value salary cap space as a trade asset. I think MB used his cap space very poorly here. When I saw we acquired Allen without knowing the return, part of me felt like St. Louis should have been giving up another asset to make that trade, not the other way around. So on paper, it fills a huge hole for us and in the long run, we're better off post-trade than pre-trade, but it's like some of the other deals MB has made, where you kind of feel like he didn't maximize his assets (in this case cap space).

no, I diagree completely. Yes you're taking on a big contract but Allen is a good player, much better than Alzner, or the goalie we got in the Armia trade. Those guys were pretty much useless, Allen could START for a team, and so he isn't overpaid. Sure they needed the cap space, but they could have traded him to someone else

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Just now, H_T_L said:

But but but,,, ,trades are hard. If we had another GM i could see the cap space usage being an issue. This GM likes to sit on his, so as long as he's in charge, i don't see this deal hurting us in the long term. Not sure we could have traded for this kind of quality for cheaper.

This.

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