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Alzner on waivers for the purpose of a buyout.


H_T_L
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2 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

Ottawa the first team to make a move by placing Ryan on waivers. After the buyout the Sens will need to spend 22 mill to reach the cap floor.

Is Alzner on deck for us??

Hopefully, yes. We need his spot to allow for a younger player to be signed. No sense having all these draft picks, if you can't sign them when you need to. We didn't give McShane, Houde or Fonstad a chance, They couldn't be any worse than some of the players that we have under contract. Just sayin.......

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1 hour ago, H_T_L said:

Ottawa the first team to make a move by placing Ryan on waivers. After the buyout the Sens will need to spend 22 mill to reach the cap floor.

Is Alzner on deck for us??

 

1 hour ago, electron58 said:

Hopefully, yes. We need his spot to allow for a younger player to be signed. No sense having all these draft picks, if you can't sign them when you need to. We didn't give McShane, Houde or Fonstad a chance, They couldn't be any worse than some of the players that we have under contract. Just sayin.......

 

Really comes down to 2 things:   1) the cap and 2) if they want to be nice to alzner.


with regards to the cap, Right now we're on the hook for $4.6m for the 2 year.   You can bury him in the minors & get about $1m relief from that. So our cap hit is essentially $3.6m for the next 2 seasons.   If we buy him out, we pay him $3.9m this year (so a little higher) then 1.9m next and 833k for the following 2.  Will we need the money in 2 years? Maybe maybe not.  Next year is a big savings. This year we end up using a bit more of our cap, but as Electron said, you open up a contract space. 

as for part two:  Alzner has been a true pro, but if he feels there's even a remote chance he can get a job in the NHL somewhere youd love to be able to honor that.   I wouldnt be surprised at all if someone offered him a league min contract on a 1 year option.  Im not saying he'll succeed but there's a GM out there that might try. 

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5 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Yeah. I kind of expect that we DON'T buyout Alzner. I anticipate he's just playing in Laval again this upcoming season. Maybe we buy him out during next off-season.

I actually think if we dont buy him out now, we wont buy him out at all.  A buyout next year would only save you about $1m off the cap ($2.3 vs $3.6m if buried) but the following year would be like $1.2m 

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3 hours ago, H_T_L said:

Ottawa the first team to make a move by placing Ryan on waivers. After the buyout the Sens will need to spend 22 mill to reach the cap floor.

Is Alzner on deck for us??

Bobby Ryan will sign somewhere for the league minimum like Kovalchuk or Spezza did - Alzner has no nhl utilitarian value other than mentoring kids in the minors. The economics suggest Alzner gets bought out next year 

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  Just purely as an exercise in number crunching ( and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong ) if Montreal were to sign Domi to a 10% raise 2 yr bridge of around $ 3,500,000 per and Mete to a 2 yr bridge for say a reasonable $1,200,000 per Montreal then could add someone else like Poehling  on the team ( making the roster 23 players) for a max hit of $$925,000 . Add in Alzner as a $1,000,000 recovery by sending him down and that would still leave Montreal with approximately $5,000,000 in cap room with all hands on board . 

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12 hours ago, arpem-can said:

  Just purely as an exercise in number crunching ( and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong ) if Montreal were to sign Domi to a 10% raise 2 yr bridge of around $ 3,500,000 per and Mete to a 2 yr bridge for say a reasonable $1,200,000 per Montreal then could add someone else like Poehling  on the team ( making the roster 23 players) for a max hit of $$925,000 . Add in Alzner as a $1,000,000 recovery by sending him down and that would still leave Montreal with approximately $5,000,000 in cap room with all hands on board . 

And then we could go into 2020-21 with $5 million in unspent cap, miss the playoffs, and Bergevin could give another shot at his five-year plan in 2021-22. That would be what in actual years? 10?

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4 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

And then we could go into 2020-21 with $5 million in unspent cap, miss the playoffs, and Bergevin could give another shot at his five-year plan in 2021-22. That would be what in actual years? 10?

 I think this year it changes dramatically or Bergevin's gone and he knows it ...the number crunching was only to illustrate that the Habs are in a good position to wheel and deal because of the room ...I expect fireworks to happen this year ...I like what he's done so far ...signed Petry to a friendly deal , Edmundson has size and grit and is decent enough for the money and the role he's expected  play and Allen finally gives Price a decent back-up in what will amount to a back-to-back crammed 2020 schedule ...the team is better than it was and the Stanley Cup hasn't  been presented yet   . The prospects in the system as well gives Montreal a high ranking in the league ( # 5 or 6 depending who evaluates ) so that's been addressed in the last couple of drafts when centres and LHD were an issue ...It's not all bad ...most pundits see Montreal trending up not down 

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15 hours ago, H_T_L said:

Domi is arbitration eligible this year if he decides to hold out on a lowball offer. That's something to consider.

  Montreal won't insult him with the same money as before ...he's looking at a 10% pay raise to about $3.5 mill for 2 yrs given his inconsistent play and my feeling is he will take it because he wants to stay ...getting traded however if something comes along is a whole other kettle of fish 

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3 minutes ago, arpem-can said:

  Montreal won't insult him with the same money as before ...he's looking at a 10% pay raise to about $3.5 mill for 2 yrs given his inconsistent play and my feeling is he will take it because he wants to stay ...getting traded however if something comes along is a whole other kettle of fish 

I gotta figure, Domi is getting 5 mil. min.

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30 minutes ago, electron58 said:

I gotta figure, Domi is getting 5 mil. min.

 he might ask that for arbitration's sake that but I don't think he'll get it ...maybe from another team who trades for him but I don't think Montreal will pay that ...the absolute most he gets is $ 4 mill  on a 2 yr - 3 yr bridge ...guess we'll see 

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The minimum he can receive is 85% of his previous years salary if that's the figure the team goes for ( highly doubt it). The player can submit any figure he feels he's worth. The ruling will be one side or the other, so there won't be a middle figure ruled upon. If the team's number is 4 and his is 5,,, it's very conceivable that's what he gets. Definitely not out of the question. If the team refuses the ruling he becomes a UFA

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16 hours ago, H_T_L said:

The minimum he can receive is 85% of his previous years salary if that's the figure the team goes for ( highly doubt it). The player can submit any figure he feels he's worth. The ruling will be one side or the other, so there won't be a middle figure ruled upon. If the team's number is 4 and his is 5,,, it's very conceivable that's what he gets. Definitely not out of the question. If the team refuses the ruling he becomes a UFA

This.  The fact that Domi put up great numbers in his first year, and Montreal did their best to keep his numbers down the second year, (3rd & fourth line duties with slugs - just like in the playoffs)  will not impact his projected salary. Domi will get 5mil & if arbitration gives him more, Montreal will sign him, and trade him the first chance they get, which I believe is after one year. But, if he has a fantastic year, and puts up 70-80 points then maybe, Bergy reassesses his value.  The problem with Bergy, is he does hold a grudge, and a man in his position, GM, should not. --->unprofessional!

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6 hours ago, electron58 said:

 Domi will get 5mil & if arbitration gives him more, Montreal will sign him, and trade him the first chance they get, which I believe is after one year. 

I doubt it will go to arbitration but if it does, there's no restrictions on trading a player after arbitration.  People mix this up because there IS a 1 year wait if you match an offer sheet (like Carolina with Aho) but not arbitration.  

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7 hours ago, electron58 said:

This.  The fact that Domi put up great numbers in his first year, and Montreal did their best to keep his numbers down the second year, (3rd & fourth line duties with slugs - just like in the playoffs)  will not impact his projected salary. Domi will get 5mil & if arbitration gives him more, Montreal will sign him, and trade him the first chance they get, which I believe is after one year. But, if he has a fantastic year, and puts up 70-80 points then maybe, Bergy reassesses his value.  The problem with Bergy, is he does hold a grudge, and a man in his position, GM, should not. --->unprofessional!

I really don’t think Domi’s numbers were kept down intentionally. If I remember correctly he started the year as our 2nd line Center, same as the year before. He struggled, plain and simple.

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2 hours ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

I really don’t think Domi’s numbers were kept down intentionally. If I remember correctly he started the year as our 2nd line Center, same as the year before. He struggled, plain and simple.

Agree. He spent most of the year as Suzuki's centre, until the kid took the job from him.   The narrative that Domi was somehow "downplayed" so they could get him cheaper is just pure fiction.

His most common linemates this last year:
Suzuki / Lekhs: 14%   Armia/Lehks: 9%  Armia/Drouin: 8% Armia/Suzuki: 6%  and it drops substantially from there, including lines like Tatar-Domi-Gallagher,  Domi-Suzuki-Kovalchuk, Drouin-Domi-Lehkonen etc.   Yes, he had some shifts with Weal or Cousins but nearly always with another quality linemate (in other words, Weal moving up, not Domi moving down).  

Yes he had 4th line minutes to start the playoffs (but that changed in the philly series) but i think that started more from him being a week behind his teammates and CJ thinking he was like a "secret weapon' against the Pen's 4th line rather than demotion. In the playoffs he still managed to have 17.5% of his icetime with Drouin & JK.    Then  Belzile/Weise (10%) and Drouin/Suzuki (10%)  so its not like he was stapled to the 4th line in the playoffs, it just seems that way because he played most of the pens series there. 

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16 hours ago, maas_art said:

Agree. He spent most of the year as Suzuki's centre, until the kid took the job from him.   The narrative that Domi was somehow "downplayed" so they could get him cheaper is just pure fiction.

His most common linemates this last year:
Suzuki / Lekhs: 14%   Armia/Lehks: 9%  Armia/Drouin: 8% Armia/Suzuki: 6%  and it drops substantially from there, including lines like Tatar-Domi-Gallagher,  Domi-Suzuki-Kovalchuk, Drouin-Domi-Lehkonen etc.   Yes, he had some shifts with Weal or Cousins but nearly always with another quality linemate (in other words, Weal moving up, not Domi moving down).  

Yes he had 4th line minutes to start the playoffs (but that changed in the philly series) but i think that started more from him being a week behind his teammates and CJ thinking he was like a "secret weapon' against the Pen's 4th line rather than demotion. In the playoffs he still managed to have 17.5% of his icetime with Drouin & JK.    Then  Belzile/Weise (10%) and Drouin/Suzuki (10%)  so its not like he was stapled to the 4th line in the playoffs, it just seems that way because he played most of the pens series there. 

Fiction or not, I don't consider Drouin a top 6 forward.  I don't consider Leks or Armia top 6 either.  Maybe, if they would have kept him with Suzuki & Leks for longer, that line could have eventually come around. Leks was reliable and Suzuki was getting better, every game. Even with all the bouncing around, Domi finished 3rd on the team in scoring. I think with a little more stability, he would have done better. It was almost like Julien couldn't find a place for him. Further to this, if he doesn't have a spot for next season, then it would be in the best interest of everybody to trade Domi. I'd love to keep him, but if not used as a center, he will be miscast. Just like Drouin is miscast as a top 9 player.

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21 hours ago, maas_art said:

I doubt it will go to arbitration but if it does, there's no restrictions on trading a player after arbitration.  People mix this up because there IS a 1 year wait if you match an offer sheet (like Carolina with Aho) but not arbitration.  

You are correct, maas_art. Not sure what I was thinking, but I probably got it mixed up. Thanks.

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54 minutes ago, electron58 said:

Fiction or not, I don't consider Drouin a top 6 forward.  I don't consider Leks or Armia top 6 either.  Maybe, if they would have kept him with Suzuki & Leks for longer, that line could have eventually come around. Leks was reliable and Suzuki was getting better, every game. Even with all the bouncing around, Domi finished 3rd on the team in scoring. I think with a little more stability, he would have done better. It was almost like Julien couldn't find a place for him. Further to this, if he doesn't have a spot for next season, then it would be in the best interest of everybody to trade Domi. I'd love to keep him, but if not used as a center, he will be miscast. Just like Drouin is miscast as a top 9 player.

If I got this right, you don't consider Drouin a top 6-9 forward, meaning you think he's a 4th line player? As much as we can question the consistency of his work ethic and his defensive play, he is a very talented player and I'd venture he would be in every single team's top 9 if he were on their rosters, if not top 6. Like him or not, his skill and production suggest he's easily a top 6 forward and probably just needs to be placed with the right linemates to have success. I would agree with you that Lehkonen and Armia are not top 6 players but their production and skill level are much lower than Drouin's.

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On 9/29/2020 at 0:41 PM, BigTed3 said:

If I got this right, you don't consider Drouin a top 6-9 forward, meaning you think he's a 4th line player? As much as we can question the consistency of his work ethic and his defensive play, he is a very talented player and I'd venture he would be in every single team's top 9 if he were on their rosters, if not top 6. Like him or not, his skill and production suggest he's easily a top 6 forward and probably just needs to be placed with the right linemates to have success. I would agree with you that Lehkonen and Armia are not top 6 players but their production and skill level are much lower than Drouin's.

Yes, Drouin wouldn't be in my top nine.  I would take either Lehkonen or Armia before Drouin. I don't dispute the fact that Drouin is very talented. He gets so many chances to produce. When we needed him the most, he did absolutely nothing. So, if he's not in my top nine, then he is packaged in a trade. I know everybody's down on Galchenyuk, and maybe rightfully so, but he never got half the chances Drouin got, and is still getting.

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14 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Drouin is, without question, a top-nine forward on every team in the NHL. He's also signed to a very fair $5.5 million per season. He's never going to be a superstar forward, but he will be good for 50 points per season and would really be a good secondary scoring piece on any club.

100%.  Without question top 9.  Probably top 6 on most teams.

From a purely point standpoint, he usually ranks in the top 100 forwards in scoring. There are 31 teams x6 = 186 So he easily ranks in the top 6 for forwards in points alone. I realize he doesnt offer a lot more than points but 50-55 is nothing to sneeze at in today's nhl. 

I am glad you brought up the contract because honestly thats what its all about. Is a player good value for the cap hit? if yes, then what is the big deal? Could we have a better player taking his spot? Sure, if we had one but who do we have now that he's 'holding back?'  most of the time be plays behind tatar and domi is clearly seen as a centre.  So who is he holding back? Lekhs?  Byron? Poehling? 

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