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Can someone explain our cap situation. Does Drouin need to stay on LTIR until season end for Caufield and Evans to sray on roster. What happens when Tatar returns, Frolic to Taxi Squad with no return rights ? Same with Byron return ? I have tried to follow as best I can however, just too confusing, although I probably know more than Habs Management as I read about the mess we're in.

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9 hours ago, Egee 53 said:

Can someone explain our cap situation. Does Drouin need to stay on LTIR until season end for Caufield and Evans to sray on roster. What happens when Tatar returns, Frolic to Taxi Squad with no return rights ? Same with Byron return ? I have tried to follow as best I can however, just too confusing, although I probably know more than Habs Management as I read about the mess we're in.

- Drouin has to stay on LTIR for 10 games and 24 days, so he's gone for the season essentially. I'm not sure how the rule applies once you get to the playoffs.

- The Habs are out of regular recalls, so the only players allowed to be here from the AHL are the ones on emergency recall. Right now, that would be Primeay, Evans, Caufield, and Frolik. Every time a player returns from injury, the team has to send down the corresponding player who's filling that roster spot. You can only have emergency recalls if you have less than 12 forwards or less than 6 D or less than 2 goalies. And all the emergency recalls have to fit under the cap, although that's no longer an issue with both Gallagher and Drouin on LTIR, since their cap hits don't count while on injured reserve.

- So if Price returns, Primeau has to go down.

- If Tatar or Byron returns, one of Frolik, Caufield, or Evans has to go down. Presumably Frolik is the first one to go. If the second one returns, then a 2nd forward (Evans or Caufield) has to go down. If Gallagher were to be able to return, then the 3rd would have to go.

- Come playoffs, there is no longer a limit on recalls/roster spots, so the Habs could put Staal in the press box freely and use any of Caufield, Evans, Frolik, Poehling, Ylonen or whoever else as they please.

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6 hours ago, dreegking said:

Thanks for explaining all that. Appreciated. The real decision comes in playoffs. 
 

who sits so Caulfield plays? 

Small sample size still of course but you have to figure if everyone is healthy he's ranked behind Anderson and Gallagher. I think they possibly rank him above Armia and Perry but both of those guys bring some special skills too.   Thats 5 RW - and Toffoli is actually a natural RW too but plays just fine on his off wing - obviously one of the other guys could move to LW too but then you have Tatar & Drouin possibly coming back plus guys like Lehks, Byron etc.

All i know is that once everyone is healthy, Staal better not be dressing. :4322: 

If EVERYONE comes back, i have to think it would look like this, according to the coaching staff:

Safe (in no particular order):
Suzuki, JK, Anderson, Toffoli, Gallagher, Tatar, Danault, Drouin, 

On the bubble:
Caufield, Perry, Armia, Byron, Lehkonen, Evans, 

Definitely (should be) out:
Staal, Frolik

 

I think they will call up Ylonen and Poehling (since there's no AHL championship) but i think its unlikely either gets playing time. 

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On 5/2/2021 at 9:16 PM, BigTed3 said:

- Drouin has to stay on LTIR for 10 games and 24 days, so he's gone for the season essentially. I'm not sure how the rule applies once you get to the playoffs.

- The Habs are out of regular recalls, so the only players allowed to be here from the AHL are the ones on emergency recall. Right now, that would be Primeay, Evans, Caufield, and Frolik. Every time a player returns from injury, the team has to send down the corresponding player who's filling that roster spot. You can only have emergency recalls if you have less than 12 forwards or less than 6 D or less than 2 goalies. And all the emergency recalls have to fit under the cap, although that's no longer an issue with both Gallagher and Drouin on LTIR, since their cap hits don't count while on injured reserve.

- So if Price returns, Primeau has to go down.

- If Tatar or Byron returns, one of Frolik, Caufield, or Evans has to go down. Presumably Frolik is the first one to go. If the second one returns, then a 2nd forward (Evans or Caufield) has to go down. If Gallagher were to be able to return, then the 3rd would have to go.

- Come playoffs, there is no longer a limit on recalls/roster spots, so the Habs could put Staal in the press box freely and use any of Caufield, Evans, Frolik, Poehling, Ylonen or whoever else as they please.

Thank you Mr. BigTed3. I, like you, would assume Tatar's return would send Frolik to the pressbox. Will be interesting to see what happens if Byron returns. Suggest that his UBI or LBI needs to keep lingering until season is complete, as don't see how we can sit Evans or Caufield right now.

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Video of Shea Weber practicing a couple of days ago and he was holding a left-handed stick and only using his right hand to grip it while he did skating drills. Didn't use the left hand at all. Some suggesting that he likely had a left hand or arm injury that's preventing him from gripping the stick. Elliotte Friedman Says there are rumors Weber is out long-term but that he was reminded you always have to believe Weber will do whatever it takes to get back in there sooner than expected. This in essence is part of the problem because if Weber's playing hurt, it usually leaves him ineffective and hurting the team. He needs to stop believing he can just play through everything. He's not a hero for doing that if he's playing poorly and taking ice time away from guys who are playing better than him.

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

Video of Shea Weber practicing a couple of days ago and he was holding a left-handed stick and only using his right hand to grip it while he did skating drills. Didn't use the left hand at all. Some suggesting that he likely had a left hand or arm injury that's preventing him from gripping the stick. Elliotte Friedman Says there are rumors Weber is out long-term but that he was reminded you always have to believe Weber will do whatever it takes to get back in there sooner than expected. This in essence is part of the problem because if Weber's playing hurt, it usually leaves him ineffective and hurting the team. He needs to stop believing he can just play through everything. He's not a hero for doing that if he's playing poorly and taking ice time away from guys who are playing better than him.

Makes you wonder if he's been hurt all year.   His play this year has been difficult to explain. Im not talking about the usual "slowing down" which is normal ageing, but he's looked lost, his reaction times have been slow and he's been ineffective once in position.  All of these would make (at least some) sense if he is hurt.  Remember how bad Gallagher looked when he came back with a not-yet-healed hand?   

I sure hope the sharp drop off this year is at least partially attributed to an injury because i think he's here for the long haul, so if he can be better next year then that would be good. 

Interestingly, after having a handful of the worst games of probably his career, he suddenly came back & looked good for like 3-4 games before going out with an injury.  He was aggressive and looked more decisive and powerful than he has all year.  If he was indeed injured all year & trying to baby the injury & then finally couldnt take the poor play & went too hard on it - at least that would explain the ups and downs this year a bit better.

Either way, i agree with you - being in the lineup and playing such a crucial position so poorly is not helping the team. 

 

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2 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Makes you wonder if he's been hurt all year.   His play this year has been difficult to explain. Im not talking about the usual "slowing down" which is normal ageing, but he's looked lost, his reaction times have been slow and he's been ineffective once in position.  All of these would make (at least some) sense if he is hurt.  Remember how bad Gallagher looked when he came back with a not-yet-healed hand?   

I sure hope the sharp drop off this year is at least partially attributed to an injury because i think he's here for the long haul, so if he can be better next year then that would be good. 

Interestingly, after having a handful of the worst games of probably his career, he suddenly came back & looked good for like 3-4 games before going out with an injury.  He was aggressive and looked more decisive and powerful than he has all year.  If he was indeed injured all year & trying to baby the injury & then finally couldnt take the poor play & went too hard on it - at least that would explain the ups and downs this year a bit better.

Either way, i agree with you - being in the lineup and playing such a crucial position so poorly is not helping the team. 

 

To me it looked like he was playing with some kind of arm or shoulder related problem. He wasn't shooting the puck as often as usual and his accuracy and shot velocity seemed much weaker then normal. How many times have we commented about him missing the net this season? That fight he had earlier had red flags all over it,,,,, just about every punch he attempted was off the mark. It was like he was trying to avoid making contact to protect something. Found it strange then, but maybe it was intentional.

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

Makes you wonder if he's been hurt all year.   His play this year has been difficult to explain. Im not talking about the usual "slowing down" which is normal ageing, but he's looked lost, his reaction times have been slow and he's been ineffective once in position.  All of these would make (at least some) sense if he is hurt.  Remember how bad Gallagher looked when he came back with a not-yet-healed hand?   

I sure hope the sharp drop off this year is at least partially attributed to an injury because i think he's here for the long haul, so if he can be better next year then that would be good. 

Interestingly, after having a handful of the worst games of probably his career, he suddenly came back & looked good for like 3-4 games before going out with an injury.  He was aggressive and looked more decisive and powerful than he has all year.  If he was indeed injured all year & trying to baby the injury & then finally couldnt take the poor play & went too hard on it - at least that would explain the ups and downs this year a bit better.

Either way, i agree with you - being in the lineup and playing such a crucial position so poorly is not helping the team. 

 

I just don't get why the Habs would lie about that though. Ducharme was very clear that he hurt himself on the recent road trip in Edmonton. He gave a very specific timepoint to the injury. I get the advantage to trying to hide an injury if a player is playing through it, where you don't want teams to know a guy can't skate well or can't pivot to one side or can't grip his stick to shoot or so on. But Weber was already out at that point. So what does it matter to the Habs if they reveal that it happened a week ago or a month ago? If anything, you would think they would prefer to let it be known the injury was longer so that it gives an explanation for Weber's play and hope that his value will rise. I just don't see an advantage to lying about the injury having occurred in Edmonton. To boot, Weber has played badly most of the year, but he had games where we skated better and where his shot was still likely 100MPH. I don't buy that he was injured the entire time. I'm sure he's had wear and tear the entire year but I doubt he had a significant injury that the Habs are hiding at this point.

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2 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

I just don't get why the Habs would lie about that though. Ducharme was very clear that he hurt himself on the recent road trip in Edmonton. He gave a very specific timepoint to the injury. I get the advantage to trying to hide an injury if a player is playing through it, where you don't want teams to know a guy can't skate well or can't pivot to one side or can't grip his stick to shoot or so on. But Weber was already out at that point. So what does it matter to the Habs if they reveal that it happened a week ago or a month ago? If anything, you would think they would prefer to let it be known the injury was longer so that it gives an explanation for Weber's play and hope that his value will rise. I just don't see an advantage to lying about the injury having occurred in Edmonton. To boot, Weber has played badly most of the year, but he had games where we skated better and where his shot was still likely 100MPH. I don't buy that he was injured the entire time. I'm sure he's had wear and tear the entire year but I doubt he had a significant injury that the Habs are hiding at this point.

I think the more likely explanation, is he was playing poor and he pushed himself too much in the aggression and physical play and did indeed hurt himself now

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10 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Video of Shea Weber practicing a couple of days ago and he was holding a left-handed stick and only using his right hand to grip it while he did skating drills. Didn't use the left hand at all. Some suggesting that he likely had a left hand or arm injury that's preventing him from gripping the stick. Elliotte Friedman Says there are rumors Weber is out long-term but that he was reminded you always have to believe Weber will do whatever it takes to get back in there sooner than expected. This in essence is part of the problem because if Weber's playing hurt, it usually leaves him ineffective and hurting the team. He needs to stop believing he can just play through everything. He's not a hero for doing that if he's playing poorly and taking ice time away from guys who are playing better than him.

Agreed!  & that is why I do not think he is a great leader, as some do.

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8 hours ago, maas_art said:

Makes you wonder if he's been hurt all year.   His play this year has been difficult to explain. Im not talking about the usual "slowing down" which is normal ageing, but he's looked lost, his reaction times have been slow and he's been ineffective once in position.  All of these would make (at least some) sense if he is hurt.  Remember how bad Gallagher looked when he came back with a not-yet-healed hand?   

I sure hope the sharp drop off this year is at least partially attributed to an injury because i think he's here for the long haul, so if he can be better next year then that would be good. 

Interestingly, after having a handful of the worst games of probably his career, he suddenly came back & looked good for like 3-4 games before going out with an injury.  He was aggressive and looked more decisive and powerful than he has all year.  If he was indeed injured all year & trying to baby the injury & then finally couldnt take the poor play & went too hard on it - at least that would explain the ups and downs this year a bit better.

Either way, i agree with you - being in the lineup and playing such a crucial position so poorly is not helping the team. 

 

I would still leave him exposed for the ED!

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6 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

I just don't get why the Habs would lie about that though. Ducharme was very clear that he hurt himself on the recent road trip in Edmonton. He gave a very specific timepoint to the injury. I get the advantage to trying to hide an injury if a player is playing through it, where you don't want teams to know a guy can't skate well or can't pivot to one side or can't grip his stick to shoot or so on. But Weber was already out at that point. So what does it matter to the Habs if they reveal that it happened a week ago or a month ago? If anything, you would think they would prefer to let it be known the injury was longer so that it gives an explanation for Weber's play and hope that his value will rise. I just don't see an advantage to lying about the injury having occurred in Edmonton. To boot, Weber has played badly most of the year, but he had games where we skated better and where his shot was still likely 100MPH. I don't buy that he was injured the entire time. I'm sure he's had wear and tear the entire year but I doubt he had a significant injury that the Habs are hiding at this point.

bergevin is a documented liar, so I would take any explanations coming from the organization, for what it is. 

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1 hour ago, electron58 said:

bergevin is a documented liar, so I would take any explanations coming from the organization, for what it is. 

I get his lying about whether he's trying to sign a guy or whether a player is on the trade block or so on. There's a motive there. Here, first of all it's Ducharme who was talking and second what's the motive for lying? If Weber has really been hurt all season, it would make more sense for the Habs to want everyone to know that now. People would say Weber's been hurt, he's not playing terribly because he's declined he's playing terribly because he's got an injury. It helps his stock and public opinion of him going forward. I still don't see a good reason as to why they would lie about this.

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Montreal Canadiens forward Ryan Poehling will miss the remainder of the 2020-21 season after suffering a wrist injury, the club has announced.

Poehling’s injury will require surgery, after which time an update on his recovery timeline will be provided, according to the team. I guess he won't replace Staal any time soon. 

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15 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

I get his lying about whether he's trying to sign a guy or whether a player is on the trade block or so on. There's a motive there. Here, first of all it's Ducharme who was talking and second what's the motive for lying? If Weber has really been hurt all season, it would make more sense for the Habs to want everyone to know that now. People would say Weber's been hurt, he's not playing terribly because he's declined he's playing terribly because he's got an injury. It helps his stock and public opinion of him going forward. I still don't see a good reason as to why they would lie about this.

No team or sports organization has no obligation to any fan base or others to disclose injury status. The only time it get more involved is when the betting world  gets involved. I am positive that no team cares about 'public opinion' when it comes to the health status of their players. The players themselves may not want issues made public. Which is their right also. Time lines vary wildly also depending on the injury or problem. If any one has done rehab or worked through an issue everyone's recovery rate is different and there is no set time line on recoveries. The thought process that because we're fans we have a "right" to know.......well actually we don't. It's actual not our business , but it is theirs. We'll know when the players are back in the line up. Can we wish them the best of luck and hope they get back soon absolutely! When a player isn't playing to what some may deem as their standards we can speculate (but actually shouldn't). If the player or team at a future point want to tell us something they can but don't need to we're not entitled to know. 

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38 minutes ago, electron58 said:

Montreal Canadiens forward Ryan Poehling will miss the remainder of the 2020-21 season after suffering a wrist injury, the club has announced.

Poehling’s injury will require surgery, after which time an update on his recovery timeline will be provided, according to the team. I guess he won't replace Staal any time soon. 

its highly unlikely he would have gotten much of a chance in the playoffs but it would have been nice to have him as an option... hope his recovery goes well, he's had a real bounce back season - 25 points in 28 games in Laval - and has moved his name back up among our best young prospects.  He wont be a top line centre but looks to be in the discussion as a high end bottom 6 player. 

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1 minute ago, maas_art said:

its highly unlikely he would have gotten much of a chance in the playoffs but it would have been nice to have him as an option... hope his recovery goes well, he's had a real bounce back season - 25 points in 28 games in Laval - and has moved his name back up among our best young prospects.  He wont be a top line centre but looks to be in the discussion as a high end bottom 6 player. 

Unfortunate - but agree he was very unlikely to play in the playoffs but now Bergevin is going defend why he has brought Eric Staal into the organization.  Certainly wish Poehling a healthy recovery to challenge for a spot next year as a 3rd liner. 

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4 hours ago, CaptWelly said:

I am positive that no team cares about 'public opinion'

   exactly ...like Begevin is some kind of pathological "liar ' because team management has deemed Weber's injury not be disclosed and have that right  ....the fan base isn't automatically privy to details of any injury , when or where it happened ,...if fans or reporters don't like the explanation they have a voice to speculate or criticize but there is no obligation on the part of the franchise  .....every team in the league does this ..a concussion can be a "day to day " upper body injury and not "specific" ...revealing the extent of the injury is the players business and the team might choose to be mum on the subject out of deference that player's safety and privacy ,...every one knows another team ( especially come play-off time ) will target a player if they sense he is still even a little vulnerable ....but when information it's not specific about a situation that is "personal" like in Drouin's case everybody accepts that he can be out of the line-up for an "undisclosed " amount of time .

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I don't have a problem with them not disclosing an injury. The frustrating part is when they tell you the player is day to day on a return and then it stretches to week to week and month to month. Would it kill them to just say out for an undisclosed amount of time? They're there own worst enemy when they give you a target date and don't even come close.

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3 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

I don't have a problem with them not disclosing an injury. The frustrating part is when they tell you the player is day to day on a return and then it stretches to week to week and month to month. Would it kill them to just say out for an undisclosed amount of time? They're there own worst enemy when they give you a target date and don't even come close.

No comment needed. :ph34r:

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