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3 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Posted this in GDT but I would look at pulling Evans and calling up Poehling for a stint. He's playing well right now and Evans could use a break in the press gallery... I like the top 6, so I'd go

 

Drouin-Kotkaniemi-Anderson

Toffoli-Suzuki-Gallagher

Tatar-Danault-Lehkonen

Byron-Poehling-Armia

 

Have always liked Drouin-Kotkaniemi, as well as Drouin-Anderson. Have always liked Danault-Lehkonen. This keeps the top 6 forwards in the top 6 (albeit an argument can be made for Tatar).

No Perry??

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4 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Posted this in GDT but I would look at pulling Evans and calling up Poehling for a stint. He's playing well right now and Evans could use a break in the press gallery... I like the top 6, so I'd go

 

Drouin-Kotkaniemi-Anderson

Toffoli-Suzuki-Gallagher

Tatar-Danault-Lehkonen

Byron-Poehling-Armia

 

Have always liked Drouin-Kotkaniemi, as well as Drouin-Anderson. Have always liked Danault-Lehkonen. This keeps the top 6 forwards in the top 6 (albeit an argument can be made for Tatar).

It's hard to keep Perry out of the line up though. He helps  a lot with the PP

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5 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

No Perry??

 

4 minutes ago, CaptWelly said:

It's hard to keep Perry out of the line up though. He helps  a lot with the PP

Absolutely. But if I'm going Poehling and Armia as the other two guys on the line, Byron is a better complement than Perry. If, as someone else suggested in the GDT you bring up Vejdemo instead, you could go Perry-Vejdemo-Armia. Either way. I think Evans needs some time off though.

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14 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

 

Absolutely. But if I'm going Poehling and Armia as the other two guys on the line, Byron is a better complement than Perry. If, as someone else suggested in the GDT you bring up Vejdemo instead, you could go Perry-Vejdemo-Armia. Either way. I think Evans needs some time off though.

Evans looks gassed I agree he needs a few games off to regroup I like him and I think he will grow into the role but a little break will do him some good.

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3 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Please do not go with Weber-Edmundson on D anymore... They looked awful last night.

 

2 hours ago, ramcharger440 said:

To tell you the truth it was better than I thought it might be I was thinking it would be a disaster.

It really makes you wonder what the coaches are seeing/thinking.   I mean these are professionals. They can see that Kulak or Romanov skate better than Edmundson or Chairot. We all know that Weber is slow so why play him with another slow player?    Clearly they seem to think that Weber is the #1 RHD (despite all the stats & metrics showing that Petry is - right now at least) so they bumped Edmundson up a pairing despite the fact Edmundson-Petry has been one of the best pairs in the NHl this season.  No big deal because Kulak-Petry is even better but I just dont understand what they are trying to accomplish with Weber + Big slow guy.  It makes you think if we somehow made a great coup and traded for Werenski or something  we'd play him with Petry and keep a lumbering LD next to Weber.  

And im not trying to pose a disputatious question - its a legit question.  Are they seeing something we cant understand?  Like, for example, I get why you may not want to play Romanov next to Weber if you think his confidence could be hurt playing 1st pairing minutes etc but why not Kulak?  Why not bump Petry to 1st pair and Romanov-Weber is your second etc etc.   There's just a lot of really head-scratching moves that surprise me from this coaching staff.   Is it all Richardson or is DD down for it too?  If the latter that means at least 2 (maybe more) coaches are on board for what all of the rest of us seem to think are crazy pairings. 

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

 

It really makes you wonder what the coaches are seeing/thinking.   I mean these are professionals. They can see that Kulak or Romanov skate better than Edmundson or Chairot. We all know that Weber is slow so why play him with another slow player?    Clearly they seem to think that Weber is the #1 RHD (despite all the stats & metrics showing that Petry is - right now at least) so they bumped Edmundson up a pairing despite the fact Edmundson-Petry has been one of the best pairs in the NHl this season.  No big deal because Kulak-Petry is even better but I just dont understand what they are trying to accomplish with Weber + Big slow guy.  It makes you think if we somehow made a great coup and traded for Werenski or something  we'd play him with Petry and keep a lumbering LD next to Weber.  

And im not trying to pose a disputatious question - its a legit question.  Are they seeing something we cant understand?  Like, for example, I get why you may not want to play Romanov next to Weber if you think his confidence could be hurt playing 1st pairing minutes etc but why not Kulak?  Why not bump Petry to 1st pair and Romanov-Weber is your second etc etc.   There's just a lot of really head-scratching moves that surprise me from this coaching staff.   Is it all Richardson or is DD down for it too?  If the latter that means at least 2 (maybe more) coaches are on board for what all of the rest of us seem to think are crazy pairings. 

I think the problem is this:

1. They still view Weber as a top-pairing guy and think he's just going through a slump. Either that or they're too afraid of insulting him by telling him the truth.

2. They see Weber plus another big physical player as the best way of countering bigger forwards. If you look at the Jets' games, for example, they've played Weber-Chiarot or Weber-Edmundson against the Scheifele-Wheeler line. They've played Petry against the Dubois-Ehlers line. I think they believe guys like Romanov or Mete or Kulak won't be able to handle the bigger crasher type forwards and are trying to go skillset vs skillset. The problem is that we're slapping out guys of the same size who are slower and less skilled and with less endurance and then we're getting killed. But my guess is that part of it is the coaches just believe a smaller faster player has no chance of guarding a bigger forward line.

 

Bottom line from what we've learned in a small sample size is that

- Kulak-Petry looks as good this year as it did over the past two years. It was a top 5 D pairing in the league the past two years and it looked that way again last night.

- Kulak-Petry is superior to Edmundson-Petry, even if Edmundson-Petry worked.

- Edmundson-Weber was a disaster akin to the Chiarot-Weber disaster. It shows that Edmundson needs help either with easier match-ups or by playing next to a star like Petry and that he alone wasn't driving the success of his duo with Petry. It also shows Weber can't play with just anyone and needs more support than Petry does. Petry made Edmundson look like a top 4 D man. Again, still early, but Weber did what we thought he would do and look badly next to Edmundson.

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

I think the problem is this:

1. They still view Weber as a top-pairing guy and think he's just going through a slump. Either that or they're too afraid of insulting him by telling him the truth.

2. They see Weber plus another big physical player as the best way of countering bigger forwards. If you look at the Jets' games, for example, they've played Weber-Chiarot or Weber-Edmundson against the Scheifele-Wheeler line. They've played Petry against the Dubois-Ehlers line. I think they believe guys like Romanov or Mete or Kulak won't be able to handle the bigger crasher type forwards and are trying to go skillset vs skillset. The problem is that we're slapping out guys of the same size who are slower and less skilled and with less endurance and then we're getting killed. But my guess is that part of it is the coaches just believe a smaller faster player has no chance of guarding a bigger forward line.

I agree with your reasoning - its the only thing i can think of too. I believe they are starting to wonder about Weber but afraid to hurt his ego.  I think that if a team offered MB something substantial for SW now, he'd likely consider it. (I think he wouldnt have even looked at an offer 2 years ago or maybe even last year - which is bad GMing imho but thats another story)
 

So I think 1 of 2 things happens: 1) they finally understand or, 2) we have figured out some miraculous system where this would actually work. I cant see how thats possible but when the trap first came along no one thought you could stop high flying offense with big slow players and Lemaire proved them wrong. 

Of course option 3 is that we just keep doing the same thing, we suck and the team tanks but I just dont think DD will let that happen. Surely at some point he'll say 'we need to try something different back there.'     The other thing is - great players do slump. Maybe this is the inevitable decline for SW but maybe its just a bad patch.  Its ok for the coaching staff to say "Shea we want to dial back your minutes a little."  

1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

Bottom line from what we've learned in a small sample size is that

- Kulak-Petry looks as good this year as it did over the past two years. It was a top 5 D pairing in the league the past two years and it looked that way again last night.

- Kulak-Petry is superior to Edmundson-Petry, even if Edmundson-Petry worked.

- Edmundson-Weber was a disaster akin to the Chiarot-Weber disaster. It shows that Edmundson needs help either with easier match-ups or by playing next to a star like Petry and that he alone wasn't driving the success of his duo with Petry. It also shows Weber can't play with just anyone and needs more support than Petry does. Petry made Edmundson look like a top 4 D man. Again, still early, but Weber did what we thought he would do and look badly next to Edmundson.

I wonder if the answer is as simple as  Petry-Kulak (first pair minutes assignments) Weber-Edmundson.  If Shea is getting the slightly easier assigments he might get his mojo back & be able to help Edmundson more.  Dunno. I dont think Edmundson is quite as bad as he looked at times last night.  Adapting from playing with Petry all year to playing with Weber probably takes a couple of games. I *think* he's supposed to be the mobile dman on his pairing now? :rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

I agree with your reasoning - its the only thing i can think of too. I believe they are starting to wonder about Weber but afraid to hurt his ego.  I think that if a team offered MB something substantial for SW now, he'd likely consider it. (I think he wouldnt have even looked at an offer 2 years ago or maybe even last year - which is bad GMing imho but thats another story)
 

So I think 1 of 2 things happens: 1) they finally understand or, 2) we have figured out some miraculous system where this would actually work. I cant see how thats possible but when the trap first came along no one thought you could stop high flying offense with big slow players and Lemaire proved them wrong. 

Of course option 3 is that we just keep doing the same thing, we suck and the team tanks but I just dont think DD will let that happen. Surely at some point he'll say 'we need to try something different back there.'     The other thing is - great players do slump. Maybe this is the inevitable decline for SW but maybe its just a bad patch.  Its ok for the coaching staff to say "Shea we want to dial back your minutes a little."  

I wonder if the answer is as simple as  Petry-Kulak (first pair minutes assignments) Weber-Edmundson.  If Shea is getting the slightly easier assigments he might get his mojo back & be able to help Edmundson more.  Dunno. I dont think Edmundson is quite as bad as he looked at times last night.  Adapting from playing with Petry all year to playing with Weber probably takes a couple of games. I *think* he's supposed to be the mobile dman on his pairing now? :rolleyes:

The problem is that even with a "2nd-pairing" role, Weber-Edmundson would still be required to face significant competition. It's not like the 2nd lines in our division are easy match-ups. Weber avoids Matthews and Marner but gets Tavares and Nylander? Or he avoids McDavid but draws Draisaitl? He gets taken away from Scheifele-Wheeler but now faces Dubois-Ehlers? The fact is that while limiting is minutes a bit might help, we're talking about going from 22-24 minutes to 20 minutes maybe. I don't think Petry can handle 25-28 minutes a game at his age either and the bottom pairing can't play more than 15-16 if it's featuring the likes of Ouellet or Mete, so the top 4 still needs to handle close to 45 minutes a night. The only way to "hide" Weber is to have a strong partner for him who hides his lack of speed and I don't see how that can be Edmundson or Chiarot.

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I would rather see them using Byron to center between Lehk. & Petry for a game or two. If needed Petry could take a couple draws. Evans just seems a little off and I like the way Lehks plays every game and Perry on the PP. I would rather see Evens sit than Lehks.

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21 minutes ago, CaptWelly said:

I would rather see them using Byron to center between Lehk. & Petry for a game or two. If needed Petry could take a couple draws. Evans just seems a little off and I like the way Lehks plays every game and Perry on the PP. I would rather see Evens sit than Lehks.

I know Jeff is an amazing skater & seems to be all over the ice some games but i'd keep him on the blueline myself.




(sorry couldnt resist) 

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On 3/16/2021 at 12:29 PM, ramcharger440 said:

Evans looks gassed I agree he needs a few games off to regroup I like him and I think he will grow into the role but a little break will do him some good.

What about Suzuki? He's looking a little gassed as well.  We have spare forwards,  we should be using them. 

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1 hour ago, electron58 said:

What about Suzuki? He's looking a little gassed as well.  We have spare forwards,  we should be using them. 

I dont know if i would say he (Suzuki) looks gassed so much as just a bit stifled. I think that the recent switch (Kotkaniemi's line essentially taking over 1st line assignments) should actually help divert a bit away from nick & that should help him bounce back.  The sophomore slump is pretty common but usually there's not much you can do about it other than let them work through it). 

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I thought Nick looked close to breaking out of his slump last game. He made a couple sweet moves that we haven't seen from him for a long stretch and looked more involved last game. That hit he took from Dubois seemed to wake him up. Maybe he turns his season around now.

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7 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

I thought Nick looked close to breaking out of his slump last game. He made a couple sweet moves that we haven't seen from him for a long stretch and looked more involved last game. That hit he took from Dubois seemed to wake him up. Maybe he turns his season around now.

Yeah im personally not too worried. I dont think DD will be too hard on him - he's still doing a lot of the little things right. He seems to be overthinking things - trying to force plays rather than letting them happen. He needs to trust his instincts because he has that special hockey IQ where he just knows where the puck is going. Its not teachable, some guys just have it but when they stop believing it/trusting their instincts it never works properly.

I feel much more confident our current coaching staff will help him work through it than Julien who i think would have just bumped him down the lineup until it came back (which, obviously, is counterproductive)

 

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2 hours ago, electron58 said:

What about Suzuki? He's looking a little gassed as well.  We have spare forwards,  we should be using them. 

Suzuki is playing against better players and doing a great job, his offence will come back he looked better in the last two games. we also don't have viable replacement players for him.

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1 hour ago, ramcharger440 said:

Suzuki is playing against better players and doing a great job, his offence will come back he looked better in the last two games. we also don't have viable replacement players for him.

I'd like to see Suzuki and Drouin both shoot more. 

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

FWIW, Habs list the Edmundson-Weber duo as their "first pairing" on the game sheet going into tonight's game.

and so far they definitely are. Second goal against pass into traffic Quellet 3 rd goal Petry lets force the pass again. Yes both time Gallagher being pressured on the pass but those passes shouldn't of happened. The forwards need to play deeper give the d an out let. 

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14 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

FWIW, Habs list the Edmundson-Weber duo as their "first pairing" on the game sheet going into tonight's game.

They list whatever pairing Weber is on as the 1st every game. I think thats problematic, especially when Petry has outplayed him for long stretches.

That said, I thought there were some promising signs from Weber last night. Yes he still make some bad plays and uncharacteristic misplays of the puck but his positioning has looked better the last few games so hopefully that is going to come back around. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Leskinen called up to the taxi squad (Ouellet and Olofsson sent down to Laval).

Will be interesting to see if he gets any games. By all accounts he's been the best Rocket defenseman all year as his defensive game has finally caught up to his offensive abilities - that was always the knock, that he was good offensively but poor defensively but it looks like Joel Bouchard's hard work with him is starting to pay off.

Curious to see if he gets any games. I think Mete is still on the hotseat so its quite possible.

Mind you, i dont think third pair is really our issue right now... 

 

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