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Eric Staal


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2 minutes ago, electron58 said:

Yeah. He's pretty slow mo out there. You can see he wants to,  but the body is taking too long to respond, and then he seems kinda surprised. Might help against a big slow team, but not many out there. 

another reason why guys like Lucic will be left unprotected in the ED and still not taken  ..Lucic , the player everybody loves to hate , is really slow but is way more effective than Staal because at least he goes to the net and hits all over the ice  even though his contract is ridiculous ....Thornton was telling anyone who would listen a couple days ago that it's time to "shift gears " ..I don't think Eric has anther gear or Thornton for that matter but its a good sound byte I guess if you're a Leaf fan ..

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39 minutes ago, arpem-can said:

 

  He's not performing anywhere because he can't keep up with the speed of this club . There's a reason he was let go and signed cheaply and we're now seeing . I've always liked Staal but I think the game has passed him by in a short 2-year span ...he should only be used when someone is injured at this point .....it would be another thing if he actually hit opposing players more than once every 2 games 

Sure, he's not performing anywhere. But you look at Perry as a comparison and he's not performing at even strength cause he can't skate yet he's doing a nice job on the PP with his net presence. There's still a reason to keep Perry on the PP if he's in the line-up. There's no reason to keep Staal there. We're somewhat stuck with Staal in the line-up of 12 forwards because Bergevin burned all his recalls and cap space and we can't replace him, but at the very least the team should be limiting Staal to 6-7 minutes a game and not giving him any PP time. It looks bad to his teammates to have a guy who's flat-out unable to play and rewarding him with PP time.

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23 minutes ago, arpem-can said:

another reason why guys like Lucic will be left unprotected in the ED and still not taken  ..Lucic , the player everybody loves to hate , is really slow but is way more effective than Staal because at least he goes to the net and hits all over the ice  even though his contract is ridiculous ....Thornton was telling anyone who would listen a couple days ago that it's time to "shift gears " ..I don't think Eric has anther gear or Thornton for that matter but its a good sound byte I guess if you're a Leaf fan ..

For sure. But at least Lucic hits, even if it is 5 minutes after the play. He keeps opposing players worried when he's on the ice. But yeah. His better days are long gone. Thornton is still a presence out there.  Slow, but they limit his minutes & they use him the right way.

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7 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Sure, he's not performing anywhere. But you look at Perry as a comparison and he's not performing at even strength cause he can't skate yet he's doing a nice job on the PP with his net presence. There's still a reason to keep Perry on the PP if he's in the line-up. There's no reason to keep Staal there. We're somewhat stuck with Staal in the line-up of 12 forwards because Bergevin burned all his recalls and cap space and we can't replace him, but at the very least the team should be limiting Staal to 6-7 minutes a game and not giving him any PP time. It looks bad to his teammates to have a guy who's flat-out unable to play and rewarding him with PP time.

Exactly.  Need to limit Perry 's minutes,  as well. He has been good on the PP. Especially with Gally out.

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8 hours ago, electron58 said:

Yeah. Kinda like Weber.

Not even close to an accurate comparison.

Shea Weber is being played 24 minutes a game & going up against the opposition's best players. He's no longer that player.  He's also being saddled with a pretty poor (by top 4 standards) partner.  Play him 20 minutes a night with 2nd pairing duties and watch his effectiveness go up.  

Shea is still most likely an NHL defensman, probably still top 4 but not 1st pair unless you gave him a top pairing LD to carry him for a change.  Staal is arguably no longer an NHL player. At best he's a fringe 4th liner. 
 

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41 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Not even close to an accurate comparison.

Shea Weber is being played 24 minutes a game & going up against the opposition's best players. He's no longer that player.  He's also being saddled with a pretty poor (by top 4 standards) partner.  Play him 20 minutes a night with 2nd pairing duties and watch his effectiveness go up.  

Shea is still most likely an NHL defensman, probably still top 4 but not 1st pair unless you gave him a top pairing LD to carry him for a change.  Staal is arguably no longer an NHL player. At best he's a fringe 4th liner. 
 

Well, the slow part is. And the fact that they've both fallen off a cliff. Still not convinced I'd want Weber on my team, for the odd shot he gets on net. Maybe less minutes he's better, but I have my doubts.

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12 hours ago, electron58 said:

Well, the slow part is. And the fact that they've both fallen off a cliff. Still not convinced I'd want Weber on my team, for the odd shot he gets on net. Maybe less minutes he's better, but I have my doubts.

Not really.

Weber has always been slow.  Staal has slowed down - so thats different but the biggest part of my point is that:

- Eric Staal was an elite, #1 centre for most of his career. He slowed down & dropped to the 2nd line in Minny and then 3rd/4th in Buffalo and now he's barely a fringe NHLer. He's probably not in our lineup if everyone is healthy. So he slowed down, moved down the lineup and then became (arguably) no longer an NHL player.

- Shea Weber was an elite #1 defensman for most of his career.   He has slowed down - BUT - we've kept him on the 1st pair (and worse, saddled him with a 3rd pairing dman as a partner).  Until you give him the opportunity to play down the lineup its unfair to say he's "fallen off a cliff" because we really dont know what level he can play at.  He's probably still a solid 2nd pairing guy (obviously overpaid) 

So the comparison between the two & their regression is not very accurate.  You can certainly opine that Weber would be terrible even as a 3rd pairing guy but until we get to see it in action for a while, its an unfounded theory. Id love to see him pushed down the lineup but not sure we will.  There's also promising signs the last few games. He's still not been perfect but his movements have been better, his gap has been better and he's overall looked a lot more engaged. 

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29 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Not really.

Weber has always been slow.  Staal has slowed down - so thats different but the biggest part of my point is that:

- Eric Staal was an elite, #1 centre for most of his career. He slowed down & dropped to the 2nd line in Minny and then 3rd/4th in Buffalo and now he's barely a fringe NHLer. He's probably not in our lineup if everyone is healthy. So he slowed down, moved down the lineup and then became (arguably) no longer an NHL player.

- Shea Weber was an elite #1 defensman for most of his career.   He has slowed down - BUT - we've kept him on the 1st pair (and worse, saddled him with a 3rd pairing dman as a partner).  Until you give him the opportunity to play down the lineup its unfair to say he's "fallen off a cliff" because we really dont know what level he can play at.  He's probably still a solid 2nd pairing guy (obviously overpaid) 

So the comparison between the two & their regression is not very accurate.  You can certainly opine that Weber would be terrible even as a 3rd pairing guy but until we get to see it in action for a while, its an unfounded theory. Id love to see him pushed down the lineup but not sure we will.  There's also promising signs the last few games. He's still not been perfect but his movements have been better, his gap has been better and he's overall looked a lot more engaged. 

Yeah, OK. I'll wait it out before I judge again. It's tough to be patient,  tho.

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7 minutes ago, electron58 said:

Yeah, OK. I'll wait it out before I judge again. It's tough to be patient,  tho.

I totally agree - and its frustrating because its not helping the team, the player or the fans.  

The only explanation i have is that the team believes that when the playoffs come around & players are allowed to clutch and grab more, that guys like Weber, Chairot, Edmundson etc will be more effective so they'll keep him as our defacto #1.   I am not convinced and i think its a flawed plan in the meantime. 

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1 minute ago, maas_art said:

I totally agree - and its frustrating because its not helping the team, the player or the fans.  

The only explanation i have is that the team believes that when the playoffs come around & players are allowed to clutch and grab more, that guys like Weber, Chairot, Edmundson etc will be more effective.   I am not convinced and i think its a flawed plan in the meantime. 

Big gamble. Although once healthy,  I think we have a team that can compete. It will all boil down to deployment.  That means some tough decisions,  starting with Stall.

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On 4/29/2021 at 11:58 AM, electron58 said:

Big gamble. Although once healthy,  I think we have a team that can compete. It will all boil down to deployment.  That means some tough decisions,  starting with Stall.

 Staal had another mostly unimpressive night 

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1 minute ago, arpem-can said:

 Staal had another mostly unimpressive night 

When we get healthy he needs to be benched. I see zero value in having him in the lineup. Will MB allow it??

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2 hours ago, H_T_L said:

When we get healthy he needs to be benched. I see zero value in having him in the lineup. Will MB allow it??

Yep he is just not playing well at all it is one thing to have slowed down but he has no positive impact on our game.

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8 hours ago, ramcharger440 said:

Yep he is just not playing well at all it is one thing to have slowed down but he has no positive impact on our game.

Other than scoring the OT winner in his first game, has he done anything notable to help us? Once we get to the playoffs, we can bring up unlimited players. There is zero reason we should be seeing Staal in the line-up in the post-season.

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At this point if we had another option available to us i imagine he'd be riding the pine. I can't see him displacing anyone of our forwards at this point. I think i'd rather see Weal back in there in the playoffs over him.

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49 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

At this point if we had another option available to us i imagine he'd be riding the pine. I can't see him displacing anyone of our forwards at this point. I think i'd rather see Weal back in there in the playoffs over him.

Agreed. That's how bad Staal has been because Weal was quite ineffective himself.

The two bad things about the Staal trade:

1. We gave up a comparable price to what other teams paid to get Jeff Carter and Taylor Hall and more than what was paid to get Brandon Montour.

2. He's actively stealing playing time from other guys. If Staal wasn't here, we'd likely be using more Evans, maybe have recalled Poehling (before he got hurt) or Ylonen, maybe be using other guys on the PP... so not only did we lose assets in the trade, he's continuing to hurt us by taking time away from other guys, and we can't sub him out because Bergevin bungled the cap management and recalls.

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

Agreed. That's how bad Staal has been because Weal was quite ineffective himself.

The two bad things about the Staal trade:

1. We gave up a comparable price to what other teams paid to get Jeff Carter and Taylor Hall and more than what was paid to get Brandon Montour.

2. He's actively stealing playing time from other guys. If Staal wasn't here, we'd likely be using more Evans, maybe have recalled Poehling (before he got hurt) or Ylonen, maybe be using other guys on the PP... so not only did we lose assets in the trade, he's continuing to hurt us by taking time away from other guys, and we can't sub him out because Bergevin bungled the cap management and recalls.

Are you ready for it? Here comes MB's response! Trades are hard, FA signings are hard, cap management is hard and roster moves are hard. We are doing our best to make things work. Once we get to the playoffs you know anything can happen!

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On 5/7/2021 at 3:15 PM, BigTed3 said:

Agreed. That's how bad Staal has been because Weal was quite ineffective himself.

The two bad things about the Staal trade:

1. We gave up a comparable price to what other teams paid to get Jeff Carter and Taylor Hall and more than what was paid to get Brandon Montour.

2. He's actively stealing playing time from other guys. If Staal wasn't here, we'd likely be using more Evans, maybe have recalled Poehling (before he got hurt) or Ylonen, maybe be using other guys on the PP... so not only did we lose assets in the trade, he's continuing to hurt us by taking time away from other guys, and we can't sub him out because Bergevin bungled the cap management and recalls.

After home runs with 'low risk' vets like Kovalchuk & Perry I think MB thought he could do it again but there's a reason why most teams arent interested.  Having a player like Perry having a renaissance is not the norm and MB should have expected Staal wouldnt be an ideal fit. Carter would have been a much better fit to be sure. 

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5 minutes ago, maas_art said:

After home runs with 'low risk' vets like Kovalchuk & Perry I think MB thought he could do it again but there's a reason why most teams arent interested.  Having a player like Perry having a renaissance is not the norm and MB should have expected Staal wouldnt be an ideal fit. Carter would have been a much better fit to be sure. 

I had no problem with what we gave up in the trade on its own. A 3rd and a 5th are picks that combined have maybe a 15-20% chance of producing an NHLer. BUT the two problems I do have with the trade:

1. Several options that were better players or bigger needs for us (Hall, Carter, Bennett, Montour) were traded around the same time for similar or even lesser returns. Several of those guys were traded by the same bad GM in Buffalo. So when you compare what MB paid to what other GM's paid, Bergevin got fleeced by a bad GM.

2. Now that you've had Staal, you have to recognize how badly he's hurting your team. I get that they're tight against the cap and can't move others up to replace him, but there's no reason he can't be played minimal minutes, get no PP time, and/or play on the wing. There's no reason he's your go-to face-off man when he went something like 2-for-11 in the circle last game. Come on.

I'm just hopeful we don't see any of Staal in the playoffs and especially not in favor of a young guy playing well (like Evans, Caufield, etc.). I saw on other teams' sites that once you clinch a playoff spot, you're allowed to expand your roster as long as you stay beneath the cap and you no longer have to use the taxi squad, or something like that (weird rule for this weird season), so theoretically if we get a point tonight, we could recall some other players after this.

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16 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

I saw on other teams' sites that once you clinch a playoff spot, you're allowed to expand your roster as long as you stay beneath the cap and you no longer have to use the taxi squad, or something like that (weird rule for this weird season), so theoretically if we get a point tonight, we could recall some other players after this.

Thats so odd. But like you said, weird season.  Makes you think that once the "regular" games are done in a few days they either cancel Calgary/Vancouver games entirely or run them concurrently to the playoffs as a sort of 'losers round" for the players chasing stats/bonuses. 

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56 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Thats so odd. But like you said, weird season.  Makes you think that once the "regular" games are done in a few days they either cancel Calgary/Vancouver games entirely or run them concurrently to the playoffs as a sort of 'losers round" for the players chasing stats/bonuses. 

Also team draft positions.

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

I'm just hopeful we don't see any of Staal in the playoffs and especially not in favor of a young guy playing well (like Evans, Caufield, etc.). I saw on other teams' sites that once you clinch a playoff spot, you're allowed to expand your roster as long as you stay beneath the cap and you no longer have to use the taxi squad, or something like that (weird rule for this weird season), so theoretically if we get a point tonight, we could recall some other players after this.

Laval has 5 games left in their season against the Marlies. It would be nice to see Josh Brook finish strong and even be considered as a call-up for Merrill or Gustafson, but I doubt that happens. 

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