kovy1010 Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 What? Last I heard hockey was a team sport. BRAVO! You just contradicted yourself. I'll let you figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jigger-1 Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 If all your players are in the + category chances are your team will be among the best. Where's the contradiction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kovy1010 Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 If all your players are in the + category chances are your team will be among the best. Where's the contradiction? Basically... its a team sport. If a player is a minus, it doesnt really reflect how bad he's been defensively. Koivu is one of our most solid players when it comes to defense, yet he's a -3. Then you have other players who are less solid defensively and are +-s on the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jigger-1 Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Basically... its a team sport. If a player is a minus, it doesnt really reflect how bad he's been defensively. Koivu is one of our most solid players when it comes to defense, yet he's a -3. Then you have other players who are less solid defensively and are +-s on the team. In that sense I see what you mean. As in for the player himself. There are many factors, like Souray and Koivu often getting their points on the PP and therefore being in the minus category and Perezhogin getting most of his 5 on 5. But when you said +/- doesn't mean anything I thought you meant for the team. +/- is a great indicator of a team's success. The more players you have on the + side the better. It basically means you score more than you get scored on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roy_133 Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Basically... its a team sport. If a player is a minus, it doesnt really reflect how bad he's been defensively. Koivu is one of our most solid players when it comes to defense, yet he's a -3. Then you have other players who are less solid defensively and are +-s on the team. That's what I said in my arguement in the Kovalev thread and many called me stupid... Your +/- is a reflection of many things... Your play, your linemates play, the goalies play, to me it's more of a team stat... Like I said in the Kovalev thread, A stat I would really be interested to see, and would be a bit more telling to me, is how many chances/shots against each line has given up... Despite the numbers I don't think Saku's line was the worst, and that's REALLY saying so,ething, the 2nd line was worse, despite all their skill they had 2 shots on goal... Just an ugly game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jigger-1 Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 That's what I said in my arguement in the Kovalev thread and many called me stupid...Your +/- is a reflection of many things... Your play, your linemates play, the goalies play, to me it's more of a team stat... Like I said in the Kovalev thread, A stat I would really be interested to see, and would be a bit more telling to me, is how many chances/shots against each line has given up... Despite the numbers I don't think Saku's line was the worst, and that's REALLY saying so,ething, the 2nd line was worse, despite all their skill they had 2 shots on goal... Just an ugly game. I agree it's more of a team stat. I also agree that Koivu's line wasn't the worst. That title easily goes to the disintegrated Kovalev-Samsonov-Kostistyn combo last night. They were painful to watch. I though Bonk, Johnson and Perez had a great game. Begin diddo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flames4eva Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 So could you say that Janne Niinimaa's play is a reflrection of how the team played whenever he was on the ice with whoever was on the ice at the time? Could it be that the person with the worse +/- is actually the worse player on the team and his play has affected the +/- of other players who played with him and therefore the team? I guess there are many ways to look at this stat... and they all could be of value or valueless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kovy1010 Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 So could you say that Janne Niinimaa's play is a reflrection of how the team played whenever he was on the ice with whoever was on the ice at the time?Could it be that the person with the worse +/- is actually the worse player on the team and his play has affected the +/- of other players who played with him and therefore the team? I guess there are many ways to look at this stat... and they all could be of value or valueless. All in all the +- stat just like any stat in hockey isnt a 100% determant of a player. Let's say Marc savard scored 100 points last season playing with Ilya and Hossa. Is Marc Savard a 100 point player? Of course not. Basically the best way to judge any part of a players game is to watch him play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flames4eva Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 All in all the +- stat just like any stat in hockey isnt a 100% determant of a player. Let's say Marc savard scored 100 points last season playing with Ilya and Hossa. Is Marc Savard a 100 point player? Of course not.Basically the best way to judge any part of a players game is to watch him play. Agreed 100%... BG was never a great point getter but they had to add a trophy for the defensive player category... and if you watched him play you knew why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest xxfannyxx Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 To get back on topic.. I haven't seen the game, but it looks like it was a difficult night for Captain K. I can't believe Ryder actually hit Koivu.:shock: Rivet & Perezhogin and then them...:clap: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest habs_fan1160 Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Why is there competition between Koivu and Kovy anyway? They both have very different roles on the team, despite their +/- rating. They don't play on the same lines. Kovy was brought to the Habs to bring offensive power to the team (which he hasn't). Koivu is the captain, the leader, sets up great chances, leads the team in general. Big difference between the two, it's like trying to compare apples and oranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kovy1010 Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Why is there competition between Koivu and Kovy anyway? They both have very different roles on the team, despite their +/- rating.They don't play on the same lines. Kovy was brought to the Habs to bring offensive power to the team (which he hasn't). Koivu is the captain, the leader, sets up great chances, leads the team in general. Big difference between the two, it's like trying to compare apples and oranges. I believe your looking for the thread right above this one called 27 Alex Kovalev 06-07. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest habs_fan1160 Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 I believe your looking for the thread right above this one called 27 Alex Kovalev 06-07. Um you can bring up other players in different players threads, espicially when COMPARING THEM to each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jigger-1 Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Why is there competition between Koivu and Kovy anyway? They both have very different roles on the team, despite their +/- rating.They don't play on the same lines. Kovy was brought to the Habs to bring offensive power to the team (which he hasn't). Koivu is the captain, the leader, sets up great chances, leads the team in general. Big difference between the two, it's like trying to compare apples and oranges. It probably stems for their similar salaries and stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest habs_fan1160 Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 It probably stems for their similar salaries and stats. I agree with that. I think some people need to realize that they're on the team for different reasons. They're not the same player nor will they ever be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jigger-1 Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 I agree with that.I think some people need to realize that they're on the team for different reasons. They're not the same player nor will they ever be. And I agree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crognalsen Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 They are actually pretty similiar with what they bring on the ice despite what people say about Koivu working harder, playing better defensively, and leading the team. Don't get me wrong Koivu is getting paid a little bit more money and it's because he brings a little more of those intangables, but thier career stats are pretty similiar and they do play a pretty similiar game. Thats why they are getting paid a similiar amount of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AlexOscar Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 They are actually pretty similiar with what they bring on the ice despite what people say about Koivu working harder, playing better defensively, and leading the team. Don't get me wrong Koivu is getting paid a little bit more money and it's because he brings a little more of those intangables, but thier career stats are pretty similiar and they do play a pretty similiar game. Thats why they are getting paid a similiar amount of money. I agree. One Koivu and one Kovalev makes a better team than two Koivus or two Kovalev's. And these guys know it. Now, we can argue about the lines till the end of time, but I'm just happy they're both playing for Habs. Even after a not so solid performance you know they're going to bounce back. Every single time. It's called talent and love for the sports Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs-24 Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 They are actually pretty similiar with what they bring on the ice despite what people say about Koivu working harder, playing better defensively, and leading the team. Don't get me wrong Koivu is getting paid a little bit more money and it's because he brings a little more of those intangables, but thier career stats are pretty similiar and they do play a pretty similiar game. Thats why they are getting paid a similiar amount of money. koivu is getting paid the money because he deserves it, im not sure why kovalev makes what he makes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommyv Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Put them both together again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cheerio279 Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 koivu is getting paid the money because he deserves it, im not sure why kovalev makes what he makes that's hilarious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roy_133 Posted November 19, 2006 Report Share Posted November 19, 2006 Just to remind everyone, let's vote for Saku as much as possible and get him in the allstar game, he deserves after having to miss it in '03 with an injury. Keep voting Habs' fans! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hoser Posted November 19, 2006 Report Share Posted November 19, 2006 Just to remind everyone, let's vote for Saku as much as possible and get him in the allstar game, he deserves after having to miss it in '03 with an injury.Keep voting Habs' fans! Yea, don't forget Souray, he's having an All-Star season so far, definatly deserves consideration. And I don't believe that Huet wasn't eligible for the voting for the East... I had to write him in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kovy1010 Posted November 19, 2006 Report Share Posted November 19, 2006 Yea, don't forget Souray, he's having an All-Star season so far, definatly deserves consideration. And I don't believe that Huet wasn't eligible for the voting for the East... I had to write him in. Why is Markov not on the ballot or whatever its called. He's got 17 points in 19 games! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Firestar Posted November 19, 2006 Report Share Posted November 19, 2006 koivu is getting paid the money because he deserves it, im not sure why kovalev makes what he makes probably because he led the team in points last season and win us games in playoffs, don't you think ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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