lindros_jr Posted October 22, 2006 Report Share Posted October 22, 2006 four pts in 7 games --on pace for 47 pts or more as the season progressesI think people's expectations are un realistically high He 's never got more than 29 goals and 75 pts, he'll do fine Well I think everyone can agree if he only puts up 47 points then he will be considered a bust and bad signing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JL Posted October 22, 2006 Report Share Posted October 22, 2006 Well I think everyone can agree if he only puts up 47 points then he will be considered a bust and bad signing I think everyone can agree that no one can predict how many points Samsonov will be getting. But I also think we can all agree that in time, we will all find out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roy_133 Posted October 22, 2006 Report Share Posted October 22, 2006 Well I think everyone can agree if he only puts up 47 points then he will be considered a bust and bad signing lol it's 7 games, if Souray keeps up this pace he'll score over 100 points!! We'll have to wait till the end of the season but I doubt either players will keep up this pace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest halifax_habs Posted October 22, 2006 Report Share Posted October 22, 2006 Managment didn''t create the hype about this guy - FANS and MEDIA did. It's not Bob Gainey's, or Carbo's, or Samsonov's fault you think he should score X number of goals cause he's being paid 3.5 million. I agree with those saying 50-60 points is a reasonable expectation from Samsonov, that will still be a big help to this team. Everyone who argues we could have spent the cap money on a higher profile free agent -remember that Gainey courted Shanny, Elias and Arnott, with good salaries by all accounts - how many of those guys wanted to play here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amp73 Posted October 22, 2006 Report Share Posted October 22, 2006 People expectations are unrealistically high? ...........and if he can get 60 playing on our 2nd line I'll be very happy. I don't think that's expecting too much, do you? Maybe I didn't word it correctly I think he'll end up in the 60 pts range also , and to me that's quite fine Seems people are jumping all over him early, not sure exactly what they expected, a 100 pt season ? When I said he's "on pace for 47 pts " that's as of today , I expect as the season progresses for him to improve and accumulate approx the same amount of points as in previous seasons ...which I think, and hope is more than the 47 he's on pace for But like someone else mentioned , and I wish I worded better , maybe it's the fans and media with the unrealistically high expectations I think he's doing fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest habgab Posted October 22, 2006 Report Share Posted October 22, 2006 Managment didn''t create the hype about this guy - FANS and MEDIA did.It's not Bob Gainey's, or Carbo's, or Samsonov's fault you think he should score X number of goals cause he's being paid 3.5 million. I agree with those saying 50-60 points is a reasonable expectation from Samsonov, that will still be a big help to this team. Everyone who argues we could have spent the cap money on a higher profile free agent -remember that Gainey courted Shanny, Elias and Arnott, with good salaries by all accounts - how many of those guys wanted to play here? Well, the Habs website certainly played up the acquisition, and if Gainey et al didn't think he would score close to the same X number of goals I expect him to score, why did they give him as much money? I am not arguing that we should have spent the cap money on anyone else - Shanny would have been great, but if you can't get what you want or what will help, there should be no rush to spend the money - hang on to it and use it later. Or, pay the existing players on the team more - I mean, what is up with what Higgins makes, for example? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crognalsen Posted October 22, 2006 Report Share Posted October 22, 2006 Be careful what you wish for. Higgens is still very young. If he continues to produce he will get pleanty of money down the road. Most players don't get payed a lot until free agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
100proofevil Posted October 22, 2006 Report Share Posted October 22, 2006 Negative comments based on nationality or ethnicity are unacceptable in this forum. -weepingminotaur sammy scores and acts like it was an offside kovy scores and looks at sammy like he killed his mother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindros_jr Posted October 22, 2006 Report Share Posted October 22, 2006 sammy scores and acts like it was an offside kovy scores and looks at sammy like he killed his mother HaHa yah I was noticing that when Sammy scored last night he didnt even crack a smile and seemed pained when pounding fists with the team as he went down the line by the bench...He just doesnt look happy...Maybe he keeps reading this forum and sees how bad I bash him and is upset lol =)~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest halifax_habs Posted October 22, 2006 Report Share Posted October 22, 2006 Well, the Habs website certainly played up the acquisition, and if Gainey et al didn't think he would score close to the same X number of goals I expect him to score, why did they give him as much money? The Habs website is marketing. Of course they sell the players, they have seats to sell. You can't blame them for saying we have a very speedy, talented player with the potential to really help the team. That's what we've got. The difference is you judge his potential contribution in terms of X number of goals, or X number of points are sufficient to, IN YOUR OPINION, justify 3.5 million dollars. Two problems with this in my mind - 1) Different teams have different needs, and some are willing to spend their money on a player that other teams might not find as valuable. A team like the Habs who very much needed legitamate, proven scoring wingers will pay more for a speedy guy with a good shot than another team might. Look at Toronto, they "overpaid" for quality D, but they deseperatly needed experienced defence. (just as a disclaimer I'm not arguing the Leafs spent wisely ) A team like Pittsburgh decides to spend their money surrounding Crosby with veteran talent. The demand for a player determines salary, not their stats, or maybe not even their skills. 2) Stats don't really tell the true story of a players worth. Begin is a great example of this. His work ethic and tenacity are intangibles you can't put a price on. Same with Koivu's leadership, what is it worth in dollar terms? So let's look at Samsonov this way. Say he scores only 20 goals, and people believe he should have had 30. Is he a bust? Not necessarily, maybe the second line was very effective and opposing teams were forced to concentrate their defense play just a little more on Samsonov's line. Guys like Koivu, Ryder, and Higgins benefit because they aren't being checked as closely. What if Sammy is making Kovalev play better but not getting on the score sheet as much as fans expect? What if his speed is drawing penatlies? Bottom line in my mind - Samsonov is a significant upgrade over Zednick, which gives us a much more balanced attack. His salary is significant but not a problem in my mind. A good signing, with a ton of potential to help this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest habgab Posted October 22, 2006 Report Share Posted October 22, 2006 The Habs website is marketing. Of course they sell the players, they have seats to sell. You can't blame them for saying we have a very speedy, talented player with the potential to really help the team. That's what we've got.The difference is you judge his potential contribution in terms of X number of goals, or X number of points are sufficient to, IN YOUR OPINION, justify 3.5 million dollars. Two problems with this in my mind - 1) Different teams have different needs, and some are willing to spend their money on a player that other teams might not find as valuable. A team like the Habs who very much needed legitamate, proven scoring wingers will pay more for a speedy guy with a good shot than another team might. Look at Toronto, they "overpaid" for quality D, but they deseperatly needed experienced defence. (just as a disclaimer I'm not arguing the Leafs spent wisely ) A team like Pittsburgh decides to spend their money surrounding Crosby with veteran talent. The demand for a player determines salary, not their stats, or maybe not even their skills. 2) Stats don't really tell the true story of a players worth. Begin is a great example of this. His work ethic and tenacity are intangibles you can't put a price on. Same with Koivu's leadership, what is it worth in dollar terms? So let's look at Samsonov this way. Say he scores only 20 goals, and people believe he should have had 30. Is he a bust? Not necessarily, maybe the second line was very effective and opposing teams were forced to concentrate their defense play just a little more on Samsonov's line. Guys like Koivu, Ryder, and Higgins benefit because they aren't being checked as closely. What if Sammy is making Kovalev play better but not getting on the score sheet as much as fans expect? What if his speed is drawing penatlies? Bottom line in my mind - Samsonov is a significant upgrade over Zednick, which gives us a much more balanced attack. His salary is significant but not a problem in my mind. A good signing, with a ton of potential to help this team. I agree with all that you have said. However, I still do not agree with the final analysis. Begin is worth his heart in gold. Koivu has value just for being the team leader. What is it that Samsonov is adding for his salary? Is he making Kovalev play better? Seems not? Is he a leader in the dressing room? No. Is his work ethic leaving us with mouths agape? Again, no. Why was he brought here? To be a speedy winger with offensive capabilities - and, so far (although I acknowledge that the season is quite young), he has not shown that. As I have indicated, I have been far more impressed with Johnson to this point in the season vis a vis his offensive abilities, yet he makes nothing in comparison. So, although in theory everything you say is right on, how is it working in practice in this particular case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordi Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 HaHa yah I was noticing that when Sammy scored last night he didnt even crack a smile and seemed pained when pounding fists with the team as he went down the line by the bench...He just doesnt look happy...Maybe he keeps reading this forum and sees how bad I bash him and is upset lol =)~ In Edmonton he never really smiled even when he did big things. Though he cracked a smile or two, one time he was on his knees and Horcoff jumped into his arms in joy. But I guess it's a poker face thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gabe3 Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 In Edmonton he never really smiled even when he did big things. Though he cracked a smile or two, one time he was on his knees and Horcoff jumped into his arms in joy. But I guess it's a poker face thing. Does it really matter if he smiles or not? What's more important is that he scores or gets an assist If he doesn't smile after his goals, or great plays, I wouldn't really care.. It's the play that counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JL Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 Does it really matter if he smiles or not? What's more important is that he scores or gets an assist If he doesn't smile after his goals, or great plays, I wouldn't really care.. It's the play that counts. Hey we have a GM who is not known for showing emotions and he still does a heck of a job! :mrgreen: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crognalsen Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 Does it really matter if he smiles or not? What's more important is that he scores or gets an assist If he doesn't smile after his goals, or great plays, I wouldn't really care.. It's the play that counts. I generally agree. There don't seem to be a lot of russian players that get excited when they score other then Ovechkin. Especially the older Russian's seem to almost expect themsleves to score so they don't celebrate much when they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest f30marco Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 its his style to be monotone but still its hard to tell if hes enjoying playing here........now that i think about it i dont care whether he hates playing here or he loves it as long as he gets the job done! just because he signed here doesnt mean he has to lie and say" oh i love the city its great" whats more important? we can try to accomodate him but as long as he scores and plays to what hes worth i dont care!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordi Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 its his style to be monotone but still its hard to tell if hes enjoying playing here........now that i think about it i dont care whether he hates playing here or he loves it as long as he gets the job done! just because he signed here doesnt mean he has to lie and say" oh i love the city its great" whats more important? we can try to accomodate him but as long as he scores and plays to what hes worth i dont care!! Well for one thing fan will feel like players like to stay here . But the key word is if he's consistently producing. He could act like a spoilt bratbut still be potting in Game Winning goals for all the fans seem to care. Using symbols doesn't make it any better. Make better word selection in the future. -WinnipegJet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KOIVU#11 Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 In Edmonton he never really smiled even when he did big things. Though he cracked a smile or two, one time he was on his knees and Horcoff jumped into his arms in joy. But I guess it's a poker face thing. Ya for the most part Kovalev doesn't really do a lot of celebrating either, nor does Markov, other than in the playoffs most of these guys really put on like you said, a poker face ( maybe it's a Russian thing). Speaking of poker faces though, check out Gainey after a thrilling shoot out win in toronto he keeps the exact same face.. that sort of half smile half frown. I guess its just something some players do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest halifax_habs Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 Why was he brought here? To be a speedy winger with offensive capabilities - and, so far (although I acknowledge that the season is quite young), he has not shown that. As I have indicated, I have been far more impressed with Johnson to this point in the season vis a vis his offensive abilities, yet he makes nothing in comparison.So, although in theory everything you say is right on, how is it working in practice in this particular case? I'm more impressed with Johnson too right now. Bonk and Johnson are playing very well. Is it possible the third and first lines strong start are partly due to opposing teams being forced to check the second line closer than they have in the past? Kovalev and Samsonov can be really dangerous if left alone. Teams recognize that, theyr'e all over Kovalev especially. Having this kind of depth takes pressure off the first line especially, they're tearing things up. As you mention its also early, but Sammy is already showing sings of life with Kovy. Gainey said we shouldn't expect much for two months. Let's see what happens. My main point is your expectations are mostly based on what we payed for Sammy. We payed more for Samsonov than Johnson, or Higgins, or Ryder. Higgins and Ryder are RFA, they have very little bargaining power, hence low salaries. It has nothing to do with how valuable Gainey considers them, but a lot to do with business. Gainey looks like he plays hard ball when he can, and maybe it's not right in your mind but he'll lean on the RFAs and make them sign for cheap if he can. Higgins is a huge bargain, good for Gainey in my mind. Sammy vs. Johnson for salary. Johnson has less offensive upside than Sammy, and Sammy produces more through his career. Hence the market for Sammy is better and you have to pay more for his services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmash Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 Hey we have a GM who is not known for showing emotions and he still does a heck of a job! :mrgreen: The only time I've seen him smile since he became GM is when he;'s sitting beside Youppi. Maybe Sammy needs to spend some more time with the mascot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amp73 Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 The only time I've seen him smile since he became GM is when he;'s sitting beside Youppi. ............ He seems pretty happy here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjGdmnbv8I4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flames4eva Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 He seems pretty happy here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjGdmnbv8I4 ...him and Youppi got something going or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmash Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 He seems pretty happy here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjGdmnbv8I4 haha that was awesome. Waits till no ones looking and smiles. At least he can laugh at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CanadianMike Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 I called this a long time ago (Johnson would bring so much more to the Habs then Sammy). I am a little surprised that Carbo is benching Sammy for a period or for most part of a period...already!?! Can he be what Zednik/Bulis were to Gainey last season? (never liked them). I am just surprised he is getting benched so soon ( sure it is to shake him up, but...is he really playing that bad that he should be benched? I don't think so). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Corey Locke Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 Put this kid on a line with Koivu and Kovalev then you'll see the real time scoring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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