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73 Michael Ryder 06-07


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Guest Saltwater
Ryder was 2nd on the team for ES goals in 03/04, was tied for third in 05/06 and tied for second in 06/07. Sure he was -25, but how can anyone single Ryder out for that when Koivu was -21 and Kovalev was -19, and especially we you consider that Ryder had 27 giveaways while Koivu had 52 and Kovelev had 44. Not only is Ryder being misrepresented here, he's being blamed for issues that are really team problems. At some point, the management/ coaching staff has to be held accountable for some of this.

EXACTLY, thank god someone else see's this, the whole +/- thing REALLY irks me. I didn't know his giveaways were that low compared to others though, very interesting.

I would also point to his increased PK time and his 2 SHG's as proof of his improving defensive play, as someone else said, he will never win the Selke, but he is REALLY being panned and dissed here for things that aren't an issue at all.

Good post

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I think people make far too much of Ryder's plus-minus, his (admittedly not very strong) defensive game, and his penchant for shooting instead of passing. Heck, I myself had a little good-natured fun at Mr. Ryder's expense last season when he seemed bent on doing The Move even when there were better plays available. :)

But let's face facts. The man is a consistent 30-goal scorer. Right there, right there he is earning his paycheque as far as I'm concerned. While I don't think he should get insane money because I feel he's peaked as a player, there is no denying his value as a triggerman. We need more people who are 'selfish' enough to shoot hard and accurately at the net. Maybe then we'd have more 30-goal scorers.

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Guest d80jcrant

I think Ryder should be signed long term by the Habs. Here is his 3 year career stats.

03/04 81 Games Played 25 Goals 38 Assist 63 Points +10

05/06 81 Games Played 30 Goals 25 Assist 55 Points -5

06/07 82 Games Played 30 Goals 28 Assist 58 Points -25

Those numbers are pretty good except for the plus minus. Maybe Ryder should be put on the third line with Smolinski. We all know Ryder can score on any line and Smolinski can improve that +- I am sure. Thougts any one??? Wold Ryder have a problem playing on the third line??

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Guest habfan in leafland
Yet he was 5th on the team last season for assists..... so does that mean that the other players below him aren't making use of their linemates as well? I'm really getting tired of these arguements, his +/- sucks, news flash, 80% of the team had horrible +/-, he dosn't pass, yet he was 5th for assists, he shoots too much... HE SHOOT'S TOO MUCH?!?!?! Ask me there are a few other members of the team that could learn a thing or two from Michael, its actually refreshing to see shots being taken, we are consistantly and constantly outshot. Put a puck at the net and anything can happen, you hope for a deflection, a rebound, a goalie in the middle of a daydream, pass it across to a teammate and your chance for lady luck to put it in suddenly becomes a chance for lady luck to turn the puck over.

Look, I'm not saying passing isn't important, thats stupid, its an intregal part of the game, but this constant whining for a sniper to suddenly become a playmaker, when in actuallity he DOE'S pass off the puck on many occasions, its just digging and digging to find some fault in the game he plays.

Is he perfect? Nope, he can make bone headed decisions, often when "passing" the puck, he can be lazy on the boards, he's not the speediest or most creative puck carrier there is, but he is a sniper, he is a shooter, and he is our leading goal scorer. Rather than try to find things wrong with his game, we can all find things wrong, why not just sit back, relax, enjoy the goals he scores ( 30 goal scorers only comprise 5% of the league by the way, were lucky to have one ) and know that he isn't costing us NEAR what some of the other 5% is costing their repective teams.

If you don't like him, just say flatly, I don't like him, don't try to hide your dislike behind stats and opinions on protions of his game that just don't hold up under closer observation.

If you don't like people complaining about his stats, don't use stats to back it up. ;)

Sure, he's 5th in assists... but he's also on the ice a heck of a lot more then others. Ryder is the one person i constantly watch and feel the need to yell "PASS IT TO KOIVU, HE'S WIDE OPEN!". Is he valuable? Of course he is. But he can be even more valuable when he learns to dish it off when his shot doesn't have a chance of making it to the net.

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Guest s.k 11
I think Ryder should be signed long term by the Habs. Here is his 3 year career stats.

03/04 81 Games Played 25 Goals 38 Assist 63 Points +10

05/06 81 Games Played 30 Goals 25 Assist 55 Points -5

06/07 82 Games Played 30 Goals 28 Assist 58 Points -25

Those numbers are pretty good except for the plus minus. Maybe Ryder should be put on the third line with Smolinski. We all know Ryder can score on any line and Smolinski can improve that +- I am sure. Thougts any one??? Wold Ryder have a problem playing on the third line??

Of couse he would have problems playing in the 3rd line he is a 30 goal scorer and a first liner and why would we put our top goal scorer on the

3rd line.

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Guest d80jcrant
Of couse he would have problems playing in the 3rd line he is a 30 goal scorer and a first liner and why would we put our top goal scorer on the

3rd line.

I would not go as far as saying he is a first liner but I agree with what you are saying. We have way too many forwards I think.

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Guest habsfan7344
I think Ryder should be signed long term by the Habs. Here is his 3 year career stats.

03/04 81 Games Played 25 Goals 38 Assist 63 Points +10

05/06 81 Games Played 30 Goals 25 Assist 55 Points -5

06/07 82 Games Played 30 Goals 28 Assist 58 Points -25

Those numbers are pretty good except for the plus minus. Maybe Ryder should be put on the third line with Smolinski. We all know Ryder can score on any line and Smolinski can improve that +- I am sure. Thougts any one??? Wold Ryder have a problem playing on the third line??

i think that ryder will do amazing on any line he is the heart of the offence and i kno that ryder will not leave us during the UFA he has acomplished so much with montreal and hamilton he really stands out!! Ryder is ganna work hard during camp and show montreal this season wat he is really made out of!!! as you can see Ryder is my favorite player but EVEN IF he wasn't i would still keep an eye on him!!! three years playing in the NHL and he has 85 goals!! AMAZING!

#1 rookie in 2003 AMAZING!! can score a lot of goals AMAZING!! RYDER has soo many strengths but only 1 weekness the only thing he needs to learn is to pass thats all!!! i kno ryder can do it!! and he will stay on montreal thats were i wanna see him play!! :D

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Guest gottaHABit
If you don't like people complaining about his stats, don't use stats to back it up. ;)

Sure, he's 5th in assists... but he's also on the ice a heck of a lot more then others. Ryder is the one person i constantly watch and feel the need to yell "PASS IT TO KOIVU, HE'S WIDE OPEN!". Is he valuable? Of course he is. But he can be even more valuable when he learns to dish it off when his shot doesn't have a chance of making it to the net.

The complaint here isn't about stat's, it's about making a big deal of meaningless stats.

These kinda posts crack me up. Our leading goal scorer is frustrating fans because he doesn't pass enough to our leading playmaker. The guy who's scored 85 goals in three seasons is an idiot because he doesn't pass enough to the guy who's scored 159 goals in ten.

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If you don't like people complaining about his stats, don't use stats to back it up. ;)

Sure, he's 5th in assists... but he's also on the ice a heck of a lot more then others. Ryder is the one person i constantly watch and feel the need to yell "PASS IT TO KOIVU, HE'S WIDE OPEN!". Is he valuable? Of course he is. But he can be even more valuable when he learns to dish it off when his shot doesn't have a chance of making it to the net.

I disagree with your criticism of Ryder shooting all the time. You make it sound like taking a shot at the net is a bad thing. The base reality is that shooting is one of the most vital parts of the game...it's the primary objective of the game to shoot and score.

If anything Ryder needs to shoot more in order to enter the upper echelon of snipers. He only took 221 shots last year and scored 30 goals. If he takes 300 shots and stays that accurate, he's easily a 40+ goal scorer.

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Guest habfan in leafland
The complaint here isn't about stat's, it's about making a big deal of meaningless stats.

These kinda posts crack me up. Our leading goal scorer is frustrating fans because he doesn't pass enough to our leading playmaker. The guy who's scored 85 goals in three seasons is an idiot because he doesn't pass enough to the guy who's scored 159 goals in ten.

I disagree with your criticism of Ryder shooting all the time. You make it sound like taking a shot at the net is a bad thing. The base reality is that shooting is one of the most vital parts of the game...it's the primary objective of the game to shoot and score.

If anything Ryder needs to shoot more in order to enter the upper echelon of snipers. He only took 221 shots last year and scored 30 goals. If he takes 300 shots and stays that accurate, he's easily a 40+ goal scorer.

I don't care if his last name was Gretzky or Lemieux. If you have a wide open man and you're covered there's no point in shooting it into the defenders shin pads. Or he'll try a few high school moves to try to get around a couple guys on his own.

Ryder is NOT a good puck carrier. He's better off letting Koivu do his job and wait in the slot. What frustrates a lot of fans about Ryder is that he tries to make his own opportunities all the time when he doesn't have the skill to.

I look at Brett Hull as a perfect example of a sniper. He found his open spot and waited for Oates to find him. That's exactly how Ryder has to play!

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I don't care if his last name was Gretzky or Lemieux. If you have a wide open man and you're covered there's no point in shooting it into the defenders shin pads. Or he'll try a few high school moves to try to get around a couple guys on his own.

Ryder is NOT a good puck carrier. He's better off letting Koivu do his job and wait in the slot. What frustrates a lot of fans about Ryder is that he tries to make his own opportunities all the time when he doesn't have the skill to.

I look at Brett Hull as a perfect example of a sniper. He found his open spot and waited for Oates to find him. That's exactly how Ryder has to play!

While I tend to agree with this, I feel that people are FAR too hard on Ryder and really make mountains out of molehills as far as his shortcomings are concerned. I agree that if you're a triggerman, knows your strengths and your weaknesses and play your game accordingly. Steve Begin is not a finesse player. Andrei Markov is not a bruising, physical defenceman. Guillaume Latendresse is not a speed demon. And by that same token, Michael Ryder is not a dangler, or a guy who will create many scoring chances by himself.

But let's look at Ryder's total package. His strengths are:

  • An uncanny ability to find dead-ice spots and set himself up for a quick wrist shot.
  • An opportunistic, goalscorer's mentality. He's a clutch player who comes through in big games and key situations.
  • A willingness to score the garbage goals, i.e. rebounds, tap-ins.
  • An absolutely killer wrist shot which is as hard and accurate as any I've seen from a Hab in the past 15 years at least.
  • The ability to be lethal in the slot and below the faceoff circles.
  • A track record of being effective no matter which line he's on or who he's playing with.
As you can see, those are a lot of strengths! :) Now let's look at areas in which he's not quite as strong:
  • Skating. While it's improved a lot in the past year, Ryder will never be mistaken for a speedster.
  • Creating his own chances. Again, he's improved in this area, but because of his relative lack of speed in part, he won't often get enough separation between himself and a defender to create his own chance. He's most effective as the finisher and on the power play, when defenders can't afford to play him too closely.
  • Total on-ice vision. While Ryder is great at setting up his shot and picking corners, he isn't nearly as good at reading the whole play at any given time and 'audibling' accordingly. He's not bad at it by any means, but it's not a strength either. He often misses open men, doesn't make adequate use of his linemates on an odd-man rush, and hangs on to the puck a few seconds too long, passing it when the window of opportunity for his linemate has already closed. But who cares? He's a goalscorer, not a playmaker. He's paid to put the puck in the net.
  • Defensive responsibility. This has been exaggerated, done to death, and based almost solely on his plus-minus, which is unfair, given that the whole team, with few exceptions, was atrocious in the plus-minus department. The fact remains that defense isn't Ryder's strength, and this may be related in part to his struggle to read the totality of a play on offense. To be a good defensive forward, you have to be able to think big picture and react accordingly.
Yes, Ryder sometimes overreaches and tries to do too much. Does hehave weaknesses? Sure, but so does every player, from Saku Koivu down to Garth Murray. At the end of the day, are his contributions greater than his weaknesses? Absolutely, beyond a shadow of a doubt, especially at his current price tag. So let's stop pretending that Ryder is nothing but a shot accompanied by a mass of deficiencies and faults. It's simply not true.
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Guest habfan in leafland
While I tend to agree with this, I feel that people are FAR too hard on Ryder and really make mountains out of molehills as far as his shortcomings are concerned. I agree that if you're a triggerman, knows your strengths and your weaknesses and play your game accordingly. Steve Begin is not a finesse player. Andrei Markov is not a bruising, physical defenceman. Guillaume Latendresse is not a speed demon. And by that same token, Michael Ryder is not a dangler, or a guy who will create many scoring chances by himself.

But let's look at Ryder's total package. His strengths are:

  • An uncanny ability to find dead-ice spots and set himself up for a quick wrist shot.
  • An opportunistic, goalscorer's mentality. He's a clutch player who comes through in big games and key situations.
  • A willingness to score the garbage goals, i.e. rebounds, tap-ins.
  • An absolutely killer wrist shot which is as hard and accurate as any I've seen from a Hab in the past 15 years at least.
  • The ability to be lethal in the slot and below the faceoff circles.
  • A track record of being effective no matter which line he's on or who he's playing with.
As you can see, those are a lot of strengths! :) Now let's look at areas in which he's not quite as strong:
  • Skating. While it's improved a lot in the past year, Ryder will never be mistaken for a speedster.
  • Creating his own chances. Again, he's improved in this area, but because of his relative lack of speed in part, he won't often get enough separation between himself and a defender to create his own chance. He's most effective as the finisher and on the power play, when defenders can't afford to play him too closely.
  • Total on-ice vision. While Ryder is great at setting up his shot and picking corners, he isn't nearly as good at reading the whole play at any given time and 'audibling' accordingly. He's not bad at it by any means, but it's not a strength either. He often misses open men, doesn't make adequate use of his linemates on an odd-man rush, and hangs on to the puck a few seconds too long, passing it when the window of opportunity for his linemate has already closed. But who cares? He's a goalscorer, not a playmaker. He's paid to put the puck in the net.
  • Defensive responsibility. This has been exaggerated, done to death, and based almost solely on his plus-minus, which is unfair, given that the whole team, with few exceptions, was atrocious in the plus-minus department. The fact remains that defense isn't Ryder's strength, and this may be related in part to his struggle to read the totality of a play on offense. To be a good defensive forward, you have to be able to think big picture and react accordingly.
Yes, Ryder sometimes overreaches and tries to do too much. Does hehave weaknesses? Sure, but so does every player, from Saku Koivu down to Garth Murray. At the end of the day, are his contributions greater than his weaknesses? Absolutely, beyond a shadow of a doubt, especially at his current price tag. So let's stop pretending that Ryder is nothing but a shot accompanied by a mass of deficiencies and faults. It's simply not true.

I've been arguing these same things all along...

The only part i have an issue with is in bold. As a professional hockey player... a lot of people care!

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Guest jdm_jason
While I tend to agree with this, I feel that people are FAR too hard on Ryder and really make mountains out of molehills as far as his shortcomings are concerned. I agree that if you're a triggerman, knows your strengths and your weaknesses and play your game accordingly. Steve Begin is not a finesse player. Andrei Markov is not a bruising, physical defenceman. Guillaume Latendresse is not a speed demon. And by that same token, Michael Ryder is not a dangler, or a guy who will create many scoring chances by himself.

But let's look at Ryder's total package. His strengths are:

  • An uncanny ability to find dead-ice spots and set himself up for a quick wrist shot.
  • An opportunistic, goalscorer's mentality. He's a clutch player who comes through in big games and key situations.
  • A willingness to score the garbage goals, i.e. rebounds, tap-ins.
  • An absolutely killer wrist shot which is as hard and accurate as any I've seen from a Hab in the past 15 years at least.
  • The ability to be lethal in the slot and below the faceoff circles.
  • A track record of being effective no matter which line he's on or who he's playing with.
As you can see, those are a lot of strengths! :) Now let's look at areas in which he's not quite as strong:
  • Skating. While it's improved a lot in the past year, Ryder will never be mistaken for a speedster.
  • Creating his own chances. Again, he's improved in this area, but because of his relative lack of speed in part, he won't often get enough separation between himself and a defender to create his own chance. He's most effective as the finisher and on the power play, when defenders can't afford to play him too closely.
  • Total on-ice vision. While Ryder is great at setting up his shot and picking corners, he isn't nearly as good at reading the whole play at any given time and 'audibling' accordingly. He's not bad at it by any means, but it's not a strength either. He often misses open men, doesn't make adequate use of his linemates on an odd-man rush, and hangs on to the puck a few seconds too long, passing it when the window of opportunity for his linemate has already closed. But who cares? He's a goalscorer, not a playmaker. He's paid to put the puck in the net.
  • Defensive responsibility. This has been exaggerated, done to death, and based almost solely on his plus-minus, which is unfair, given that the whole team, with few exceptions, was atrocious in the plus-minus department. The fact remains that defense isn't Ryder's strength, and this may be related in part to his struggle to read the totality of a play on offense. To be a good defensive forward, you have to be able to think big picture and react accordingly.
Yes, Ryder sometimes overreaches and tries to do too much. Does hehave weaknesses? Sure, but so does every player, from Saku Koivu down to Garth Murray. At the end of the day, are his contributions greater than his weaknesses? Absolutely, beyond a shadow of a doubt, especially at his current price tag. So let's stop pretending that Ryder is nothing but a shot accompanied by a mass of deficiencies and faults. It's simply not true.

Excellent post weeping, I have to whole heartedly agree with your analysis and I really hope that all the Ryder nay-sayers have a good read and ask themselves and as hockey fans can ask themselves "can I really disagree with that analysis?" Come to accept Ryder and integral part of this team for at least one more season.

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I've been arguing these same things all along...

The only part i have an issue with is in bold. As a professional hockey player... a lot of people care!

Fair enough. That part of my post was verging on the hyperbolic. Actually, I DO care. :) And I'm sure Ryder and the coaches do as well. Of course we don't want to see those kinds of things happen, but every time I get frustrated, I ask myself, "Is it worth it to get angry about this when Ryder is our top goalscorer year after year? When we have no other 30-goal scorers?" And inevitably, the answer is, "No." :)

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Guest habfan in leafland
Fair enough. That part of my post was verging on the hyperbolic. Actually, I DO care. :) And I'm sure Ryder and the coaches do as well. Of course we don't want to see those kinds of things happen, but every time I get frustrated, I ask myself, "Is it worth it to get angry about this when Ryder is our top goalscorer year after year? When we have no other 30-goal scorers?" And inevitably, the answer is, "No." :)

Then it becomes a vicious circle of questioning... "Would we have another 30-goal scorers on the first line if he didn't do all those things?" :lol:

I know Ryder is important to this team, I've said it all along. But our first line could be so much better if they played as a line! Koivu can score, don't anybody kid themselves by calling him a playmaker (which he is as well), all you have to do is look at his shootout goals to see his skill. My argument is, and always has been, if the wingers were more versatile on that line we'd have a pretty respectable 1st scoring line rather then arguably one of the bottom 10 in the league.

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Then it becomes a vicious circle of questioning... "Would we have another 30-goal scorers on the first line if he didn't do all those things?" :lol:

I know Ryder is important to this team, I've said it all along. But our first line could be so much better if they played as a line! Koivu can score, don't anybody kid themselves by calling him a playmaker (which he is as well), all you have to do is look at his shootout goals to see his skill. My argument is, and always has been, if the wingers were more versatile on that line we'd have a pretty respectable 1st scoring line rather then arguably one of the bottom 10 in the league.

I think it's less a question of versatility and more a question of ability. Ryder is a GREAT second-line winger, and a decent first-line winger in the absence of anyone more talented. It's not his fault that we don't have any elite wingers! ;) We will have a true top line when we have two legitimate top-line wingers playing alongside Saku Koivu and Michael Ryder can be twice as effective on the second line.

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Guest habfan in leafland
I think it's less a question of versatility and more a question of ability. Ryder is a GREAT second-line winger, and a decent first-line winger in the absence of anyone more talented. It's not his fault that we don't have any elite wingers! ;) We will have a true top line when we have two legitimate top-line wingers playing alongside Saku Koivu and Michael Ryder can be twice as effective on the second line.

Very true.

I'm still dreaming we have a chance with Teemu! :wub:

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Guest CharlottetownHabbies
Very true.

I'm still dreaming we have a chance with Teemu! :wub:

Off topic, but is sellanne still a first line winger in Montreal (also in this stage in his career) with the centers that we have?

I'm worried that all the big plans of bringing in the kind of guy we seem to be able to get are still just band-aids that won't amount to much more than we have now. I still don't think this team has hit bottom, which would in turn enable a total stripping of the team and a real re-build. Trading away one thirty goal guy for another isn't going to make this a better hockey team. For that to really happen we need to land a couple of legit first line guys in free agency, or scrap everyone and hope we draft well.

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Guest habfan in leafland
Off topic, but is sellanne still a first line winger in Montreal (also in this stage in his career) with the centers that we have?

94 points last year... he'd be a welcome addition as one of our 1st line wingers. Koivu and him would light it up just like in International hockey!

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