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73 Michael Ryder 06-07


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Guest MTL_HABS_24
Below average skater? If he's below average, it'd be scary to see an elite skater.

I think it is complete ***** to call the teams top goal getter below average with the puck in all 3 zones. He's obviously above average in the offensive zone if he can put it in the net with greater consistency than any other player on the team. He finds ways to score...I could grocery list a bunch of players who weren't doing so for us last season but I'll keep this about Ryder instead.

You noted in your post that he was 852nd in plus mibnus...better only than 6 players. Well here's some number crunching of my own for your consideration from last season:

Ryder was tied for 37th in the LEAGUE in goalscoring. He was tied with names like: Gaborik, Staal (Eric), and Jagr.

He was also tied for 78th in the LEAGUE points alongside names like: Tkachuk and Getzlaf.

I know you're most likely going to say that you can't compare Ryder to those names (Eventhough his offensive output in at least one category was equal to there's :rolleyes: )...And you're most likely going to find a way to illustrate how these stats don't mean anything (eventhough you use stats like +/- to prove how horrible Ryder is...Which by the way couldn't you at least find a new stat to use? +/- honestly seems to be the only evidence statistically you have against Ryder).

I don't have that of time, but I'd be curious to know if those who keep bashing our players are the same people who moan and complain that we can't get any FAs to come to Montreal.

It makes me angry to read this player or that being the reason why we haven't hung banner #25 up on the rafters.

Newsflash: we're not a Stanley Cup contender - Saku said so and I believe him.

That's not to say that we couldn't actually win a Cup, but our Habs would be hard-pressed competing with the likes of Ottawa, NJ or Buffalo in the playoffs, they're just better teams than we are - for now.

Montreal's just begining to show that the team is serious in building a winner, something that's not done by trying to sign FA or trading away all your picks and prospects for bandaid solutions a la Leafs. There will be growing pains, but the process can't be hurried and it will take patience, something bashers are in short supply of.

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Guest habfan in leafland

Here's my take on a few things posted lately (i've been out of the loop):

1) Bob Gainey doesn't sign too many long-term deals. The fact that he only signed Ryder to a 1-year deal isn't a bad thing. Gainey does this maybe to continue to motivate his players... every year is a contract year. Sure, he's a UFA at the end of the season but Ryder will respect the team that gave him a chance. That's if he isn't moved at the deadline or sooner...

2) Plus/Minus IS important! I don't care if many on the team has a bad +/-, it's still a bad thing! They all have to fix it. Look at Souray this past offseason. People thought he'd be taken pretty quickly on the open market! The truth is GM's were afraid of his +/- (along with his salary expectations). You can argue he is a defencemen and that +/- is more important, i can argue he's a goal-scorer and it isn't as important as the goals he brings to the team.

3) Yes, Ryder is valuable. He does have a downside and areas he can continue to improve as well. He became much better last year, but still a ways to go. The problem with Ryder is he's a 1st line winger and 1st PP winger so we want him to play up to expectations. That's tough because the truth is Ryder should only be a 2nd line winger and 2nd PP winger, but we don't have a 1st line winger to take the spot.

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Guest 1970 Habs
Here's my take on a few things posted lately (i've been out of the loop):

1) Bob Gainey doesn't sign too many long-term deals. The fact that he only signed Ryder to a 1-year deal isn't a bad thing. Gainey does this maybe to continue to motivate his players... every year is a contract year. Sure, he's a UFA at the end of the season but Ryder will respect the team that gave him a chance. That's if he isn't moved at the deadline or sooner...

2) Plus/Minus IS important! I don't care if many on the team has a bad +/-, it's still a bad thing! They all have to fix it. Look at Souray this past offseason. People thought he'd be taken pretty quickly on the open market! The truth is GM's were afraid of his +/- (along with his salary expectations). You can argue he is a defencemen and that +/- is more important, i can argue he's a goal-scorer and it isn't as important as the goals he brings to the team.

3) Yes, Ryder is valuable. He does have a downside and areas he can continue to improve as well. He became much better last year, but still a ways to go. The problem with Ryder is he's a 1st line winger and 1st PP winger so we want him to play up to expectations. That's tough because the truth is Ryder should only be a 2nd line winger and 2nd PP winger, but we don't have a 1st line winger to take the spot.

Excellent post; It is nice to see that points can be made in an objective and respectful manner (to Ryder).

And I am one of the stronger Ryder supporters.

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Here's my take on a few things posted lately (i've been out of the loop):

1) Bob Gainey doesn't sign too many long-term deals. The fact that he only signed Ryder to a 1-year deal isn't a bad thing. Gainey does this maybe to continue to motivate his players... every year is a contract year. Sure, he's a UFA at the end of the season but Ryder will respect the team that gave him a chance. That's if he isn't moved at the deadline or sooner...

2) Plus/Minus IS important! I don't care if many on the team has a bad +/-, it's still a bad thing! They all have to fix it. Look at Souray this past offseason. People thought he'd be taken pretty quickly on the open market! The truth is GM's were afraid of his +/- (along with his salary expectations). You can argue he is a defencemen and that +/- is more important, i can argue he's a goal-scorer and it isn't as important as the goals he brings to the team.

3) Yes, Ryder is valuable. He does have a downside and areas he can continue to improve as well. He became much better last year, but still a ways to go. The problem with Ryder is he's a 1st line winger and 1st PP winger so we want him to play up to expectations. That's tough because the truth is Ryder should only be a 2nd line winger and 2nd PP winger, but we don't have a 1st line winger to take the spot.

Ryder is a #1 PP. Based on actual data from the last 3 years he is one of the best scorer on the PP. But I agree he is a #2 winger

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Ryder is a #1 PP. Based on actual data from the last 3 years he is one of the best scorer on the PP. But I agree he is a #2 winger

See I have no problem with people calling Ryder a 2nd line winger when describing his talent...However until someone stepse up and plays to the expectation of a 1st winger, Ryders our guy. Believe me, no one would be happier than I would to see someone step up and challenge Ryder for his #1 RW spot. It would mean this team finally has scoring depth!

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Guest 1970 Habs
See I have no problem with people calling Ryder a 2nd line winger when describing his talent...However until someone stepse up and plays to the expectation of a 1st winger, Ryders our guy. Believe me, no one would be happier than I would to see someone step up and challenge Ryder for his #1 RW spot. It would mean this team finally has scoring depth!

That is really the crux of the team's offensive problem Mojo.

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See I have no problem with people calling Ryder a 2nd line winger when describing his talent...However until someone stepse up and plays to the expectation of a 1st winger, Ryders our guy. Believe me, no one would be happier than I would to see someone step up and challenge Ryder for his #1 RW spot. It would mean this team finally has scoring depth!

You hit the nail on the head! I totally agree with you. BUT on the PP his one timer makes him a specialist that is very successful.

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Below average skater? If he's below average, it'd be scary to see an elite skater.

I think it is complete ***** to call the teams top goal getter below average with the puck in all 3 zones. He's obviously above average in the offensive zone if he can put it in the net with greater consistency than any other player on the team. He finds ways to score...I could grocery list a bunch of players who weren't doing so for us last season but I'll keep this about Ryder instead.

You noted in your post that he was 852nd in plus mibnus...better only than 6 players. Well here's some number crunching of my own for your consideration from last season:

Ryder was tied for 37th in the LEAGUE in goalscoring. He was tied with names like: Gaborik, Staal (Eric), and Jagr.

He was also tied for 78th in the LEAGUE points alongside names like: Tkachuk and Getzlaf.

I know you're most likely going to say that you can't compare Ryder to those names (Eventhough his offensive output in at least one category was equal to there's :rolleyes: )...And you're most likely going to find a way to illustrate how these stats don't mean anything (eventhough you use stats like +/- to prove how horrible Ryder is...Which by the way couldn't you at least find a new stat to use? +/- honestly seems to be the only evidence statistically you have against Ryder).

If he was as great as you and other people feel he is. I am sure he would have been locked up in a long term big payout contract. The fact that he wasn't signed lead me to believe it is one of two things.

1. Gainey just doesn't want to invest a pile of money on a player who can only play at one end of the rink

or

2. Ryder just doesn't want to play in MOntreal

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If he was as great as you and other people feel he is. I am sure he would have been locked up in a long term big payout contract. The fact that he wasn't signed lead me to believe it is one of two things.

1. Gainey just doesn't want to invest a pile of money on a player who can only play at one end of the rink

or

2. Ryder just doesn't want to play in MOntreal

Well-you may very well be right...on either account. However, the fact remains: the only people who know what went on during the negotiation proccess are: Bob Gainey, Mike Ryder and his agent...everything else you or I say is just speculation.

And I do think he's a "Great Player". I think he's done more with his given skill set than some of the more "Talented" players within the league...and I include Kovy in that list...Sorry, Kovy.

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you Caperns, but it seems as though you're attempting to belittle what Ryder has acomplished as a player...That's not fair. I think Ryder deserves a lot more respect than he receives on this forum...not just from you but others as well. Maybe if people weren't so extreme in their anti Ryder campaigns, then people like me wouldn't lay it on so thick when it comes to singing his praises.

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If he was as great as you and other people feel he is. I am sure he would have been locked up in a long term big payout contract. The fact that he wasn't signed lead me to believe it is one of two things.

1. Gainey just doesn't want to invest a pile of money on a player who can only play at one end of the rink

or

2. Ryder just doesn't want to play in MOntreal

Or they couldn't agree on a long term deal before the arbitration hearings...

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For goodness sakes guys, enough with the -25 already! That's like knocking a stay at home defenseman for not scoring enough. The argument becomes even sillier when you look at the overall team +/- performance. 18 out of 25 players were in negatives last year, and 9 of those 18 were double digit negatives. Ryder is by no means a perfect player, but his miserable +/- performance was as much an aberation for him as it was for our other forwards. If Gainey and Carboneau truly are the defensive specialists that people make them out to be, how is it that we're even be having this +/- discussion? When it comes to the miserable +/- TEAM performance last year, it's time to put the lion's share of the blame where it truly belongs!

The +/- stat isn't even meant to be a measure for offensive forwards, it's meant to measure defensemen and/or forwards who play a defensive role. Offensive forwards are measured by scoring statistics like goals and assists. The funny thing is that most people seem to have a really strong grasp of that concept ....when it comes to rest of our high +/- forwards.

I found this quote on wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, sounds vaguely familiar to what's written above.

Plus/minus is mainly used to measure defencemen and forwards who play a defensive role since offensive forwards are better measured by scoring statistics such as goals and assists. It is directly affected by team performance, thus accurate comparisons can only be made by taking into consideration the defensive performances of the team as a whole.

Anyone who religiously believes this obviously doesn't understand hockey. It is a Team stat, but your defensive liabilities over a course of a season will always be in the top minuses, Ryder has shown a terrible downswing pattern that you guys don't want to look at. Everyone mentions that many players had terrible plus minus stats, OK agreed, but if you look career wise at players like Koivu and Kovalev they don't show alarming downswings like Ryder is having. You guys mention stats a lot, well look them up because the only stats I see is a guy who can post 25-30 goals yearly but in amanner that is disconcerning with each year, less 5 on5 goals with each year, meaning he's becoming a situational player and his plus minus dropping heavily. I am sorry to tell you that I am worried about that and so is BG apparently. A 25-30 goal scorer who doesn't really improve has to be more effective in other areas and Ryder just can't seem to make it happen. I like the kid but I cannot contain the need to mention to everyone the importance of improving our hockey team right now especially if we don't know if Ryder will plummet further down. (his stats tend to indicate this He has solid value, the team is going nowhere for 2 yrs max and he's obviously doesn't fit Gainey's future Canadiens team. To those who think Ryder is gonna help us win the cup belong in a fantasy world. I wish Ryder great success for this season and the remainder of his career. I surely hope he can yield us something very good to improve our hockey club when it matters. Package Ryder and Huet at deadline, been saying this for over a year now, c'mon don't we all know the direction BG is taking this team... Got to know when to hold them and know when to fold them.

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Guest 1970 Habs
I think Ryder deserves a lot more respect than he receives on this forum...not just from you but others as well. Maybe if people weren't so extreme in their anti Ryder campaigns, then people like me wouldn't lay it on so thick when it comes to singing his praises.

I could not agree with you more Mojo.

Sadly it would probably be a different tune if he was a perrenial 40-50 goal scorer; not just the team's leading goal scorer. :(

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Guest gottaHABit
I found this quote on wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, sounds vaguely familiar to what's written above.

Plus/minus is mainly used to measure defencemen and forwards who play a defensive role since offensive forwards are better measured by scoring statistics such as goals and assists. It is directly affected by team performance, thus accurate comparisons can only be made by taking into consideration the defensive performances of the team as a whole.

Anyone who religiously believes this obviously doesn't understand hockey. It is a Team stat, but your defensive liabilities over a course of a season will always be in the top minuses, Ryder has shown a terrible downswing pattern that you guys don't want to look at. Everyone mentions that many players had terrible plus minus stats, OK agreed, but if you look career wise at players like Koivu and Kovalev they don't show alarming downswings like Ryder is having. You guys mention stats a lot, well look them up because the only stats I see is a guy who can post 25-30 goals yearly but in amanner that is disconcerning with each year, less 5 on5 goals with each year, meaning he's becoming a situational player and his plus minus dropping heavily. I am sorry to tell you that I am worried about that and so is BG apparently. A 25-30 goal scorer who doesn't really improve has to be more effective in other areas and Ryder just can't seem to make it happen. I like the kid but I cannot contain the need to mention to everyone the importance of improving our hockey team right now especially if we don't know if Ryder will plummet further down. (his stats tend to indicate this He has solid value, the team is going nowhere for 2 yrs max and he's obviously doesn't fit Gainey's future Canadiens team. To those who think Ryder is gonna help us win the cup belong in a fantasy world. I wish Ryder great success for this season and the remainder of his career. I surely hope he can yield us something very good to improve our hockey club when it matters. Package Ryder and Huet at deadline, been saying this for over a year now, c'mon don't we all know the direction BG is taking this team... Got to know when to hold them and know when to fold them.

I guess us less intelligent posters should feel fortunate to have post like this one to, you know, help us understand. So, although our defensive liabilities will always be in the top minuses, that logic can’t be applied can’t be applied to Kovalev or Koivu because they’ve never shown downward swings over their careers. Do you realize that Kovalev is a career -29, was a double digit minus player in 3 previous seasons, and actually went from a +11 in 96/97 to a -22 in 97/98? I think that kinda qualifies as a downward swing. And the fact that Ryder has 27 giveaways last year compared to Kovalev's 44 and Koivu's 51 is irrelevant too eh? Ryder scored 15 ESG goals in 03/04, 12 in 05/06 and 11 in 06/07. That’s a decreasing trend all right, but you know those numbers put him 2nd on the team in 03, 3rd in 05 and back up to 2nd in 06. Yet another team problem that is somehow more significant for Ryder than it is for our other forwards. But hey, since I really don't understand hockey, I'll just slip back into my fantasy world ....

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Guest Greek Hab

^^^^^

"This year I stayed up here (in Montreal) a little longer and next year I might stay even longer." - Ryder

Interesting to hear...but TSN just kills it with the next sentence.

"Or he may be playing in a new city." - TSN

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Guest Saltwater

It's been crazy in the city here the past year or so, a house just down the street from me was hit with spray paint the other day, along with an RV that was in the drive. I'm not Michael by any stretch, but my wife and I are looking to get the heck out of the city as well....

It's really too bad, there's a handful of hoodlums here that make it so bad for all....

And yeah, TSN kinda is getting on the Ryder is leaving wagon with their comments and such..

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Guest overlords
It's been crazy in the city here the past year or so, a house just down the street from me was hit with spray paint the other day, along with an RV that was in the drive. I'm not Michael by any stretch, but my wife and I are looking to get the heck out of the city as well....

It's really too bad, there's a handful of hoodlums here that make it so bad for all....

And yeah, TSN kinda is getting on the Ryder is leaving wagon with their comments and such..

Now I feel like moving and becoming the newfoundland vigilante!I can see it now, the Cowled Cod Catcher! Or is cod in B.C, oh well i still think it's funny :)

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Geez-I guess this forum isn't the only place where Ryder gets the screws put to him :blink:

I noticed however that they're playing Sergei Kostitsyn with Saku Koivu and Michael Ryder (Carbo must have been listening to me)...Higgs will probably be back on that line once he comes off injury, however if Sergei plays well with him, I'd be OK with a top 6 of S. Kostitsyn, Koivu, Ryder, Higgins, Plekanec, A. Kostitsyn.

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Guest CanadianMike

I knew something was up when he was different this past Sat at training camp. He ran right in and after practice someone told me he tried to avoid all the fans. (like Koivu)

poor guy!

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Guest hab4life93

I just what to say as a Newfoundlander, that we are not all like this. These Vandilists give us a bad name, and i hope it doesn't give us a bad reputation on this forum. The people who did this are probably people who are jelous of his fame here in Newfoundland, and should be ashamed of there actions.

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I just what to say as a Newfoundlander, that we are not all like this. These Vandilists give us a bad name, and i hope it doesn't give us a bad reputation on this forum. The people who did this are probably people who are jelous of his fame here in Newfoundland, and should be ashamed of there actions.

They're either jealous of the fame or the wealth if not both. From my understanding Newfoundland is a bit on the barren side when it comes to jobs (Please correct me if I'm wrong) so it wouldn't be all that surprising for people (in particular young people if they are indeed young) to lash out against someone who is considerably better off financially. And you're quite right Newfoundlanders in my experience are nothing like this...if there's any extreme they should be noted for it's extremes in generosity and hospitality...NOT vandalism and stupidity.

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It's been crazy in the city here the past year or so, a house just down the street from me was hit with spray paint the other day, along with an RV that was in the drive. I'm not Michael by any stretch, but my wife and I are looking to get the heck out of the city as well....

It's really too bad, there's a handful of hoodlums here that make it so bad for all....

And yeah, TSN kinda is getting on the Ryder is leaving wagon with their comments and such..

I hear you! I think the majority of Newfoundland hockey fans support Ryder whether they are Habs fans or not, but you always run into someone who's jealous or think that they should have the same as you. Although many posts on this forum say otherwise, I think Ryder has worked hard for the lifestyle he now enjoys and doesn't deserve the negative attention... Fame isn't all it's cracked up to be! :unsure:

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