Guest Miltie01 Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 One of these years maybe the fans will realize it isn't the coach. We have fired so many, what are a few more ? Much like UFA's, there is a reason we cannot get anything but a rookie coach folks, and as with rookie players, rookie coaches need time to develop !!! And one thind that certainly helps is having player that can get the job done. If you put Dany Heatly on this team, we win Saturday night. Even if Jason Arnott was on this team, we win Saturday night. We need more goal scoring, or more willingness to take a beating to win. Until we get some of that it will always be easy to blame the coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amp73 Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 Much like UFA's, there is a reason we cannot get anything but a rookie coach folks,......... Because we seem to always have to hire bilingual coaches rather than the best available candidate Just once I would love for Montreal to hire a coach that doesn't speak French Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmash Posted October 10, 2007 Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 One of these years maybe the fans will realize it isn't the coach. We have fired so many, what are a few more ? Much like UFA's, there is a reason we cannot get anything but a rookie coach folks, and as with rookie players, rookie coaches need time to develop !!! . Well first of all, you probably should have told your pal Gainey this before he fired Julien. I find it kind of ironic we are expected to give Carbonneau every chance in the world, when he only has the job because his predecessor got, well screwed. But also, there were other options. Ted Nolan would have come back with any team willing to give him a job just to name one off the top of my head. Even if Jason Arnott was on this team, we win Saturday night. I can't see Arnott doing very well stuck with a sophmore who looks like he's trying to get a free trip to Hamilton and a grinder with a career high 22 points (yes I am comparing Plekanek to Arnott) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JL Posted October 10, 2007 Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 Because we seem to always have to hire bilingual coaches rather than the best available candidate Just once I would love for Montreal to hire a coach that doesn't speak French Toe Blake, Dick Irwin Sr, Scotty Bowman (learned French while here) and Bob Berry (remember him?) are a few who jump to mind as English speaking coaches. But let's face it... Montreal is a French market and the coach must be able to communicate with the wolves! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flames4eva Posted October 10, 2007 Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 Toe Blake, Dick Irwin Sr, Scotty Bowman (learned French while here) and Bob Berry (remember him?) are a few who jump to mind as English speaking coaches. But let's face it... Montreal is a French market and the coach must be able to communicate with the wolves! I don't buy this... unless there is something in the language laws that requires it... Saku speaks english and that works out fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JL Posted October 10, 2007 Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 I don't buy this... unless there is something in the language laws that requires it... Saku speaks english and that works out fine. Saku doesn't have a daily press conference... It's not a necessity, but it's highly recommended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flames4eva Posted October 10, 2007 Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 Saku doesn't have a daily press conference... It's not a necessity, but it's highly recommended.Maybe the truth of the matter is that the best coaches available that don't speak french wouldn't want to come here... language laws... school for kids, taxes, insane media... etc., etc., etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JL Posted October 10, 2007 Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 Maybe the truth of the matter is that the best coaches available that don't speak french wouldn't want to come here... language laws... school for kids, taxes, insane media... etc., etc., etc. Perhaps, but we can't just under mind the quality of a coach because he's bilingual. Pat Burns, Claude Ruel, Jean Perron, Alain Vigneault, Jacques Demers, were all French speaking coaches who are amongst the team's leaders in wins and games coached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flames4eva Posted October 10, 2007 Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 Perhaps, but we can't just under mind the quality of a coach because he's bilingual. Pat Burns, Claude Ruel, Jean Perron, Alain Vigneault, Jacques Demers, were all French speaking coaches who are amongst the team's leaders in wins and games coached.True... which shows that what's really important is that the coach is a good one (at least Burns and Demers fit that bill... the others... meh)... and that for the Habs should be the best coach available regardless of what language he speaks. Makes me wonder if this could have anything to do with certain UFA's not wanting to play here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest habinto Posted October 10, 2007 Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 Because we seem to always have to hire bilingual coaches rather than the best available candidate Just once I would love for Montreal to hire a coach that doesn't speak French All the new coach that Mtl bring up seem to continue and become NHL coaches for other teams. So we are obviously bring up good coaches. The problem could have been with our players. Since the 1993 cup we have lived though some very bad years. Now we see the light and the looks good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flames4eva Posted October 10, 2007 Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 All the new coach that Mtl bring up seem to continue and become NHL coaches for other teams. So we are obviously bring up good coaches. The problem could have been with our players. Since the 1993 cup we have lived though some very bad years. Now we see the light and the looks good.Great... the Habs are a training ground for up and comers... then they are let go... good strategy eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Miltie01 Posted October 10, 2007 Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 Great... the Habs are a training ground for up and comers... then they are let go... good strategy eh? Then why complain when Bob changes the strategy ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmash Posted October 10, 2007 Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 All the new coach that Mtl bring up seem to continue and become NHL coaches for other teams. So we are obviously bring up good coaches. The problem could have been with our players. Since the 1993 cup we have lived though some very bad years. Now we see the light and the looks good. I have my doubts about this, even though it looks bad, there are a few things worth considering: - Vigneault - his team did well last season, but only playing so defensive with Luongo in net. It kept them in the hunt, but ultimately Vancouver ran out of gas, and they will do this again and again if they can't score. Defensive play can only get you so far, Vancouver will never win a cup with their current strategy - Therrien: I could coach that team, I don't think he's all that special of a coach, but he has one of the most promising teams in the league. - Julien: This is the one guy who I think will be a pretty good coach (would have been better in the old, trapping NHL, but still has potential). But his firing wasn't a result of the players, it was a result of a bad situation where, as I've said before, he got screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmash Posted October 10, 2007 Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 Then why complain when Bob changes the strategy ? He hired a rookie coach, isn't that the same strategy we've had for the past 10 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HalifaxHab Posted October 10, 2007 Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 This guy knows hockey. Carbo was a real strategy type player, he worked as an assistant and has been learning the people skills required for the job. He had a couple problems but I think he'll do much better this season. Poor play can't be blamed solely on the coach. If a player isn't producing or at the very least working hard, you can't blmae the coach for not "motivating" him. These guy's are supposed to be pros therefore, willing to work at it. If someone isn't doing what their supposed to it's Carbo's job to tell Gainey to move this guy as he sees fit and give him someone that WANTS to play. Bottom line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Miltie01 Posted October 10, 2007 Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 He hired a rookie coach, isn't that the same strategy we've had for the past 10 years? Unlike the other GMs though he is sticking by him, although people are asking for his head !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flames4eva Posted October 10, 2007 Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 Then why complain when Bob changes the strategy ?How's that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flames4eva Posted October 10, 2007 Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 Unlike the other GMs though he is sticking by him, although people are asking for his head !!!!BG re-signed Julien or at least kept him around then fired him... the season is still young. Listen I don't want to call for Guy's head yet... we have to see how things go... if they improve all the better for it. If not... well the writing will be on the wall and BG will have to do what is best for the team and the organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JL Posted October 11, 2007 Report Share Posted October 11, 2007 All the new coach that Mtl bring up seem to continue and become NHL coaches for other teams. So we are obviously bring up good coaches. The problem could have been with our players. Since the 1993 cup we have lived though some very bad years. Now we see the light and the looks good. Exactly! The list goes on and on... at some point, we must realize that it might not be the coach. To Gainey's credit though, he realized that and he's slowly changing the core of this team... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmash Posted October 11, 2007 Report Share Posted October 11, 2007 This guy knows hockey. Carbo was a real strategy type player, he worked as an assistant and has been learning the people skills required for the job. He had a couple problems but I think he'll do much better this season. Poor play can't be blamed solely on the coach. If a player isn't producing or at the very least working hard, you can't blmae the coach for not "motivating" him. These guy's are supposed to be pros therefore, willing to work at it. If someone isn't doing what their supposed to it's Carbo's job to tell Gainey to move this guy as he sees fit and give him someone that WANTS to play. Bottom line I loved him as an assistant, and you still see us with very strong special teams. It's as head coach I haven't been impressed. His ability to control the team was questionable (although looks like it is improving - let's wait until a cold streak to see how he reacts), his decision making with lineups and when to play players was mind boggling at times (this could be described as genious I just can't understand ---- except we missed the playoffs), and the even strength play as a whole wasn't his strong suit. The guys is incredible when he sticks to special teams, it's the rest of the stuff he has to deal with as head coach that hasn't impressed me. Although if he can turn it around, and it's been a pretty good start to the season, I have no personal grudge against him and will gladly keep him here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmash Posted October 11, 2007 Report Share Posted October 11, 2007 Exactly! The list goes on and on... at some point, we must realize that it might not be the coach. To Gainey's credit though, he realized that and he's slowly changing the core of this team... But it's kind of comparing apples and oranges to compare our teams 10 years ago to todays team. We're still not Ottawa, and I'm not expecting miracles. But that team last year should have easily made the playoffs at the very least. When Therrien was fired, it very well could have been because of the team (although I still don't think he's that great of a coach), but if Gainey's plan is truly working like people say it is, getting worse and missing the playoffs last season points to more than just the players. Like last season with the +/-, now Koivu, Ryder and Higgins in the past weren't competing for many Selkes or anything, but they certainly weren't a combined -80 or whatever it ended up being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourtrax Posted October 11, 2007 Report Share Posted October 11, 2007 As an Xs and Os guy, Carbonneau is great. I still don't think he has really grasped the other elements that make a good head coach. He is getting better, but I still saw weird things tonight, like Chipchura's line up against Crosby with our third defense pairing on the ice. He's got to improve his line matching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franck5890 Posted October 11, 2007 Report Share Posted October 11, 2007 As an Xs and Os guy, Carbonneau is great. I still don't think he has really grasped the other elements that make a good head coach. He is getting better, but I still saw weird things tonight, like Chipchura's line up against Crosby with our third defense pairing on the ice. He's got to improve his line matching. In Carbo's defence, the fourth line (Chipchura's line with Dandenault and Begin) has been playing very well, and the third-line hasn't been overly spectacular (particularily Kostopolous and Latendresse). All three forwards on the fourth line can log big PK minutes and are all defensively-oriented, whereas the third-line isn't exactly an ideal checking line. Just my opinion though. What I did find was weird was how things were mixed in the last 6-8 minutes. Streit and Markov were on the ice together for the second Pittsburgh goal, Smolinski was logging time with Higgins and Koivu, and I saw Kostopolous out there with Kovalev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flames4eva Posted October 11, 2007 Report Share Posted October 11, 2007 In Carbo's defence, the fourth line (Chipchura's line with Dandenault and Begin) has been playing very well, and the third-line hasn't been overly spectacular (particularily Kostopolous and Latendresse). All three forwards on the fourth line can log big PK minutes and are all defensively-oriented, whereas the third-line isn't exactly an ideal checking line. Just my opinion though. What I did find was weird was how things were mixed in the last 6-8 minutes. Streit and Markov were on the ice together for the second Pittsburgh goal, Smolinski was logging time with Higgins and Koivu, and I saw Kostopolous out there with Kovalev. I agree about the third line... I miss Bonk and Johnson playing with Perezhogin... is this a dilemna I wonder? Maybe they've got the wrong players on the checking line... Kostopoulos is a 4th liner at best from what I see so far and Lats seems out of step and place playing in that position. Smolinski could be alright. Bring back Lapierre and let Dandenault play third line is what I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Greek Hab Posted October 11, 2007 Report Share Posted October 11, 2007 What I did find was weird was how things were mixed in the last 6-8 minutes. Streit and Markov were on the ice together for the second Pittsburgh goal, Smolinski was logging time with Higgins and Koivu, and I saw Kostopolous out there with Kovalev. I agree...tres bizzare to see Tom on the line with Kovy...but where was Kostitsyn? Either Guy thought Andrei wasn't performing(which he was, I thought he had a great game) OR perhaps Kosty was a little shaken up from the Roberts hit, although I saw Andrei on a shift after he was hit. And with Smokes joining forces with Koivu and Higgins, that was way late into the 3rd, where we had the mentality of not getting anymore more goals and having a complete shutdown of the Pens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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