Guest Miltie01 Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 Yup. Welcome to the Habs, where 'offense' is a dirty word and we force everyone to become the same two-way player, then wonder why we can't score goals. Kovalev has a defensive concious this season, and yet he scores goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheFly Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 Didnt Carbo learn from Perezhogin, why is this kid play on the 3rd line when he clearly has one of the most offensive upsides out of all our rookies. Not only that, he's very physical!!! Jeeze can we start using our players properly!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Renko Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 Kovalev has a defensive concious this season, and yet he scores goals. It took Kovalev 3 years with us to develop that conscience haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourtrax Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 Kovalev has a defensive concious this season, and yet he scores goals. Yes, and Kovalev is a veteran player with over a decade of NHL experience, and is still not known for being a defensive paragon. Whereas Kostitsyn is still trying to find his offensive spark in the NHL. That should be all we ask of him right now if we're serious about scoring more goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest habs_fan1160 Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 Kostitsyn hasn't been nearly as explosive as I thought he would be coming into this season, or how the media made it sound coming into this season. He hasn't really done anything remarkable thus far, and I honestly barely remember him being on the ice last night. Not very impressive for one of our bigger named young guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rosalie52 Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 Didnt Carbo learn from Perezhogin, why is this kid play on the 3rd line when he clearly has one of the most offensive upsides out of all our rookies. Not only that, he's very physical!!! Jeeze can we start using our players properly!!! I understand your frustration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest habsfan#08 Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 Didnt Carbo learn from Perezhogin, why is this kid play on the 3rd line when he clearly has one of the most offensive upsides out of all our rookies. Not only that, he's very physical!!! Jeeze can we start using our players properly!!! Carbo doesn't seem to learn many lessons. Or at least doesn't learn them very quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Miltie01 Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 Yes, and Kovalev is a veteran player with over a decade of NHL experience, and is still not known for being a defensive paragon. Whereas Kostitsyn is still trying to find his offensive spark in the NHL. That should be all we ask of him right now if we're serious about scoring more goals. He has every opportunity to find his offensive spark once a few little things are taken care of on our side of the puck. The fact is solid team play does not prevent offensive creativity and chances, as Kovalev is proving this year, and as Plekanec has shown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Miltie01 Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 Carbo doesn't seem to learn many lessons. Or at least doesn't learn them very quickly. That is the problem here !!! The player in question has alot to learn !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourtrax Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 He has every opportunity to find his offensive spark once a few little things are taken care of on our side of the puck. The fact is solid team play does not prevent offensive creativity and chances, as Kovalev is proving this year, and as Plekanec has shown. This is kind of my point. Players are not disposable, interchangeable robots! What works for one or two players may not work for a third. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maniaque Posted October 20, 2007 Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 Didnt Carbo learn from Perezhogin, why is this kid play on the 3rd line when he clearly has one of the most offensive upsides out of all our rookies. Not only that, he's very physical!!! Jeeze can we start using our players properly!!! Kostitsyn deserves the first line IMO. It's also the best way to get him going. Ryder is a 30-goal scorer, but he has no potential to pull out of. How Ryder can be a priority at this point in the team's situation, is beyond me. The only reason I can see is to make his value go up, but I somehow doubt it. I really hope we can draw out this guy's potential. His talent is matched only by Kovalev's, but unlike the later, Kostitsyn has unexplored potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Miltie01 Posted October 20, 2007 Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 This is kind of my point. Players are not disposable, interchangeable robots! What works for one or two players may not work for a third. It isn't about being robots, it is about being a part of the team. He has responsabilities to his teammates he has to fulfil. All successful teams require some simple things from their players, and the teams that don't get the dedication fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigsby Posted October 20, 2007 Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 at the very least i'd like to see him on the ice more often. as i said in the game thread he has amazing potential. if 'they' let him use his speed he'll either get a scoring chance or draw the opposition into a penalty. what more can you ask for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommyv Posted October 20, 2007 Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 well its going to take more than the 10 minutes per game he has recieved the last 2 games in order for him to even show us how far he can bring out his potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourtrax Posted October 20, 2007 Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 It isn't about being robots, it is about being a part of the team. He has responsabilities to his teammates he has to fulfil. All successful teams require some simple things from their players, and the teams that don't get the dedication fail. Well then, let's start asking Steve Begin and Tom Kostopoulos to score goals. And becoming a solid two-way player who can still score lots of goals is not a simple thing by any means. How many players in the league are legit snipers with strong defensive skills? Let Kostitsyn figure out how to do what we want him to do primarily -- score goals. He can work on the defensive part of his game later. Right now, it's just one more thing for him to worry about in his first full NHL season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Miltie01 Posted October 20, 2007 Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 Well then, let's start asking Steve Begin and Tom Kostopoulos to score goals. And becoming a solid two-way player who can still score lots of goals is not a simple thing by any means. How many players in the league are legit snipers with strong defensive skills? Let Kostitsyn figure out how to do what we want him to do primarily -- score goals. He can work on the defensive part of his game later. Right now, it's just one more thing for him to worry about in his first full NHL season. And yet we expect Latendresse to be defensively sound and skate fast, something he has never done and been good at ? That is a double standard !!! I expect all our players to learn to play at an NHL caliber...and that most definately includes being defensively responsable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevesaku Posted October 20, 2007 Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 Well then, let's start asking Steve Begin and Tom Kostopoulos to score goals. And becoming a solid two-way player who can still score lots of goals is not a simple thing by any means. How many players in the league are legit snipers with strong defensive skills? Let Kostitsyn figure out how to do what we want him to do primarily -- score goals. He can work on the defensive part of his game later. Right now, it's just one more thing for him to worry about in his first full NHL season. i agree with you 100% is kovulchuck defensively sound? hossa? the list goes on. sure its important to be defensively aware, but its no use if the puck is not going in on the other side. you cant win if you dont score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest smoke Posted October 20, 2007 Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 i agree, either givre him pleks + higins to work with, or plop him on the first line he hant done much as of yet he deserves a fair shot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Miltie01 Posted October 20, 2007 Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 i agree, either givre him pleks + higins to work with, or plop him on the first line he hant done much as of yet he deserves a fair shot He plays with Kovalev who many deem our best hockey player.....how is he not getting a fair shot ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Miltie01 Posted October 20, 2007 Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 i agree with you 100% is kovulchuck defensively sound? hossa? the list goes on. sure its important to be defensively aware, but its no use if the puck is not going in on the other side. you cant win if you dont score. Actually Hossa is very defensively sound, and that is the reason why Waddel is trying to move heaven and earth to resign him !!! We are not asking everyone to be the second coming of Bob Gainey here, just to pay attention to some critical parts of the game that must be taken care of in order to be a successful team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourtrax Posted October 20, 2007 Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 And yet we expect Latendresse to be defensively sound and skate fast, something he has never done and been good at ? That is a double standard !!! I expect all our players to learn to play at an NHL caliber...and that most definately includes being defensively responsable. Uh, Latendresse is in his second full NHL season. Kostitsyn is in his first full NHL season. And I personally was not expecting Lats to be defensively sound. I was expecting him to work on his foot speed so he could score goals, not so he could be a defensive paragon. I also want Lats to show more energy and intensity than he has, and you can't accuse Kostitsyn of not working his tail off. Almost every shift, he's digging in the corners for the puck, playing hard and physical, and not shying away from the hits. You know how long Jason Spezza has been in the NHL? Since 2003. You know when he started to show some inkling of defensive soundness? Somewhere in the second half of last season. When Spezza first broke into the league, Jacques Martin tried his best to crush Spezza's spirit by asking him to think of defense at all times. It didn't work. All it did was confuse and frustrate a young player and stifle his offensive flair. Things got so bad that when Martin was fired and Murray took over as coach, John Muckler had to publicly say that Jason Spezza was an important part of the Senators to make amends! If you are always hounding a young, offensively gifted player to think about defense first, before the player has had a chance to adjust his strength -- offense -- to the speed and pace of the NHL game, you are hamstringing him and hurting his chances of developing. He'll become so paranoid about making sure he's defensively sound that he won't be focused on creating scoring chances, which is what we are expecting Kostitsyn to do. There will be plenty of time for Kostitsyn to learn how to play defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest smoke Posted October 20, 2007 Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 He has great potential as we saw from last yr, lets hope he can start to have some of that come back to him for this seaosn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Miltie01 Posted October 20, 2007 Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 Uh, Latendresse is in his second full NHL season. Kostitsyn is in his first full NHL season. And I personally was not expecting Lats to be defensively sound. I was expecting him to work on his foot speed so he could score goals, not so he could be a defensive paragon. I also want Lats to show more energy and intensity than he has, and you can't accuse Kostitsyn of not working his tail off. Almost every shift, he's digging in the corners for the puck, playing hard and physical, and not shying away from the hits. You know how long Jason Spezza has been in the NHL? Since 2003. You know when he started to show some inkling of defensive soundness? Somewhere in the second half of last season. When Spezza first broke into the league, Jacques Martin tried his best to crush Spezza's spirit by asking him to think of defense at all times. It didn't work. All it did was confuse and frustrate a young player and stifle his offensive flair. Things got so bad that when Martin was fired and Murray took over as coach, John Muckler had to publicly say that Jason Spezza was an important part of the Senators to make amends! If you are always hounding a young, offensively gifted player to think about defense first, before the player has had a chance to adjust his strength -- offense -- to the speed and pace of the NHL game, you are hamstringing him and hurting his chances of developing. He'll become so paranoid about making sure he's defensively sound that he won't be focused on creating scoring chances, which is what we are expecting Kostitsyn to do. There will be plenty of time for Kostitsyn to learn how to play defense. The complaints about Lats were there in his rookie season too !!! The fact is, espescially with European players, their offensive skills are well developed, and it is applying them in a team system that needs to be worked on. It isn't so much a defense first situation as most say, it is defense in addition to. We are not ruining this kid by any stetch, we are making him a much better player......Ask Mike Modano !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rosalie52 Posted October 20, 2007 Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 Uh, Latendresse is in his second full NHL season. Kostitsyn is in his first full NHL season. And I personally was not expecting Lats to be defensively sound. I was expecting him to work on his foot speed so he could score goals, not so he could be a defensive paragon. I also want Lats to show more energy and intensity than he has, and you can't accuse Kostitsyn of not working his tail off. Almost every shift, he's digging in the corners for the puck, playing hard and physical, and not shying away from the hits. You know how long Jason Spezza has been in the NHL? Since 2003. You know when he started to show some inkling of defensive soundness? Somewhere in the second half of last season. When Spezza first broke into the league, Jacques Martin tried his best to crush Spezza's spirit by asking him to think of defense at all times. It didn't work. All it did was confuse and frustrate a young player and stifle his offensive flair. Things got so bad that when Martin was fired and Murray took over as coach, John Muckler had to publicly say that Jason Spezza was an important part of the Senators to make amends! If you are always hounding a young, offensively gifted player to think about defense first, before the player has had a chance to adjust his strength -- offense -- to the speed and pace of the NHL game, you are hamstringing him and hurting his chances of developing. He'll become so paranoid about making sure he's defensively sound that he won't be focused on creating scoring chances, which is what we are expecting Kostitsyn to do. There will be plenty of time for Kostitsyn to learn how to play defense. Yeah, well said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourtrax Posted October 20, 2007 Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 The complaints about Lats were there in his rookie season too !!! Well then, those complaints were unfair. I'm not disputing that. The fact is, especially with European players, their offensive skills are well developed, and it is applying them in a team system that needs to be worked on. It isn't so much a defense first situation as most say, it is defense in addition to. We are not ruining this kid by any stetch, we are making him a much better player......Ask Mike Modano !!! It is not just a question of adapting European offensive skills to an American system (you make it sound like Europeans can't play as a team outside of the NHL, and I beg to differ; see the last Olympics for abundant proof). The speed, physicality, and grind of an 82-game NHL schedule is something all players must adapt to, European or not. You can't just take 1 pound of offensive skills, add team system for flavour, and churn out wonderbread stars. I never said we were ruining Kostitsyn. But we are failing to maximize his potential by putting him on the second line, where he is expected to score, and then demanding that he score AND worry about defensive responsibility in his first full season in the NHL. Why are we comparing Andrei Kostitsyn to Mike Modano, one of the greatest players of the modern era? Talk about setting the bar too high. Not many established players in the league would stack up to Modano in his prime but we're demanding that a rookie meet that standard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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