#46 Andrei Kostitsyn 2007-08

[Guest Bobineau]

I think Carbo is looking at making a choice between Kostitsyn or Grabovski. (He moved Lats to line 2, and move Grabs to the wing). In my opinion, the choice should really be between Kostitsyn and Latendresse. Which of the two has more potential to benefit the 2nd line with Pleks and Kovy. In my opinion, it is hands down Kostitsyn. Lats should be the one sitting. Whether or not Kostitsyn plays or not should not affect whether or not Kostopoulus or Begin plays.

And how is Kostitsyn more beneficial than Latendresse on the second line? I guess you didn't watch the game against the Bruins...

[fourtrax]

And how is Kostitsyn more beneficial than Latendresse on the second line? I guess you didn't watch the game against the Bruins...

Did you watch any of the games when Kostitsyn was on the second line? He created many scoring chances for his line, he worked hard, he played the body, and he had the speed to keep up with his linemates.

[GIJAYNE]

Latendresse, Kostitysn, Grabovski, are all still young players in the NHL and still have aton of potential.. Guys like Begin, Dandy, Kostopo aren't exactaly getting any better. I would much rather sit one of them then to ruin the development of a potential star.

Begin- Heart and soul guy, wears his heart on his sleeve. Plays with a fire under him, and is a strong shot blocker and penalty killer. Appears to be a well liked guy in the room.

Kostopo- To sit Kostopo, Guy would have to get the OK from BG. He couldn't just sit his GM's UFA signing, so he seems like an un-realistic guy to sit.

Dandy- I like Dandy, and his experience is hard to replace. However, I feel he is the odd man out.

We must play Kosti, or else we are potentially wasting his talent.

Lets not forget his speed and grit as well.

Kostitsyn should play, however the current line-up is well knitted. It's a tough one. On one hand we should definitely get him on the ice so he can weork out the kinks and do his thing. On the other hand it's hard to decide who to take out because they have all earned their spots and all have something to contribute to our recent success. Tough call for Carbs, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's in for 1 of two games this Friday/Sat.

[Guest Jesus Price]

Lets not forget his speed and grit as well.

Kostitsyn should play, however the current line-up is well knitted. It's a tough one. On one hand we should definitely get him on the ice so he can weork out the kinks and do his thing. On the other hand it's hard to decide who to take out because they have all earned their spots and all have something to contribute to our recent success. Tough call for Carbs, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's in for 1 of two games this Friday/Sat.

Your right, it is a very tough situation for Carbonneau, and no matter which way you look at it it's tough to have to sit a deserving player. However, if we are looking short term, maybe Dandy might be the best option right now, however if we are looking long-term, then Kosti absoloutely needs to be in the lineup

[JB-15]

There is really no correlation between Kostitsyn being out of the lineup and us winning. If you can prove such a correlation exists, I'd love to hear your reasoning.

We played much better with andrei kostitsyn out of the lineup. Ergo, Kostitsyn's absence correlates with us winning and outplaying the other team. Is it the sole reason? No. Is it a contributor? Absolutely. Weep, a correlation are two things that occur simultaneously. How can you favour potential over proven efficacy? The lines are working. And now you want to disrupt them because this kid has potential to do well?

[Guest Jesus Price]

We played much better with andrei kostitsyn out of the lineup. Ergo, Kostitsyn's absence correlates with us winning and outplaying the other team. Is it the sole reason? No. Is it a contributor? Absolutely. Weep, a correlation are two things that occur simultaneously. How can you favour potential over proven efficacy? The lines are working. And now you want to disrupt them because this kid has potential to do well?

We have 1 blow-out where the goalie played horrible and everyone seems to think all of our offensive problems are solved. I find it very strange that anybody would suggest we are a better team without Kostitsyn in the lineup. Latendresse played last game on the 2nd line and had 0 points. Mike Ryder played on the 1st line and had 0 points. If we are going to continue to shun guys like Perezhogin and Kostitsyn we will never have any scoring depth.

[Guest CanadianMike]

There is really no correlation between Kostitsyn being out of the lineup and us winning. If you can prove such a correlation exists, I'd love to hear your reasoning.

no there isn't... I agree, but as long as Habs are winning what is the rush? The longer he stays there maybe the bigger the firecracker will be up his butt and he can start scoring some goals!!

(he has been playing OK and I wouldn't have picked him to go sit, but I am not the coach)

Having said all that I don't picture Carbo sitting him for a 3rd straight game.

[JB-15]

We have 1 blow-out where the goalie played horrible and everyone seems to think all of our offensive problems are solved. I find it very strange that anybody would suggest we are a better team without Kostitsyn in the lineup. Latendresse played last game on the 2nd line and had 0 points. Mike Ryder played on the 1st line and had 0 points. If we are going to continue to shun guys like Perezhogin and Kostitsyn we will never have any scoring depth.

I never said our offensive problems were solved, but they are certainly improving with 10 goals in the last two games relative to the previous 6 games where we averaged what, 2 goals per game MAX.

I look at it like this: Let's say someone is sick. fever. coughing. achey. You give them some antibiotics. The next day, the fever is gone, they have more energy, their cough is improving. Do you augment their treatment or change it because you have observed some laboratory results of a new antibiotic against these types of infection and there is a lot of buzz about it being a better treatment? or do you stick with the one you've applied because you know its working so far?

My point is not to change things at this stage. There is absolutely no reason to.

[Guest Jesus Price]

I never said our offensive problems were solved, but they are certainly improving with 10 goals in the last two games relative to the previous 6 games where we averaged what, 2 goals per game MAX.

I look at it like this: Let's say someone is sick. fever. coughing. achey. You give them some antibiotics. The next day, the fever is gone, they have more energy, their cough is improving. Do you augment their treatment or change it because you have observed some laboratory results of a new antibiotic against these types of infection and there is a lot of buzz about it being a better treatment? or do you stick with the one you've applied because you know its working so far?

My point is not to change things at this stage. There is absolutely no reason to.

Yes, but maybe the medicine you are giving them now will help to make the person feel better for a short amount of time. They will feel and seem perfectly healthy, but the disease will never go away. When you have new treatment in the lab that can help cure the person for good, and perhaps totally rid them of the infection, rather then provide a temporary solution. My point being: Andrei Kostitsyn could be a force for our offence for years to come, and could even possibly (not saying he WILL be) our first superstar since Mats Naslund. If we go with the temporary solution with guys like Dandy and Kostopo, then we are hurting our younger kids chances at success.

[Guest js2]

If we want to develop him into what he's capable of then we have to play him. None of this "if the teams winning then keep it the same" stuff.

[Guest Jesus Price]

If we want to develop him into what he's capable of then we have to play him. None of this "if the teams winning then keep it the same" stuff.

Yup, thats all there is to it.

[JB-15]

Yes, but maybe the medicine you are giving them now will help to make the person feel better for a short amount of time. They will feel and seem perfectly healthy, but the disease will never go away. When you have new treatment in the lab that can help cure the person for good, and perhaps totally rid them of the infection, rather then provide a temporary solution. My point being: Andrei Kostitsyn could be a force for our offence for years to come, and could even possibly (not saying he WILL be) our first superstar since Mats Naslund. If we go with the temporary solution with guys like Dandy and Kostopo, then we are hurting our younger kids chances at success.

I suppose, Jesus, what I am trying to say, is that I am not convinced that he is the talent that he is said to be. I think people are over-interpreting his play, and so the incentive for me to put him back in (if I am carbo) is less than it is say. for you or someone else. Part of the reason he is benched is because he did not impress during his first 8 games. What does that say about the efficacy of him in the lineup? You are saying we may not develop him to his full capability. How do you, or anyone else, know what that full capability is? The only way you can see what a player is capable of is through his performance. So far, it has been lacking, and that is why he is sitting. You cannot have a good junior career and be a swifty skater and make that the reason that you should have a full spot on the team. You've gotta outplay your teammates, and he is not doing that. So for me, his capabilities this season have been quite limited.

[Guest Jesus Price]

I suppose, Jesus, what I am trying to say, is that I am not convinced that he is the talent that he is said to be. I think people are over-interpreting his play, and so the incentive for me to put him back in (if I am carbo) is less than it is say. for you or someone else. Part of the reason he is benched is because he did not impress during his first 8 games. What does that say about the efficacy of him in the lineup?

It SAYS that 6 (not 8) is not enough games to prove your effiency to a team.

The guy has 16 shots through 6 games, lets give him a chance to start turning those chances into goals. Once he finds his groove he will be a force. Ryder has the same amount of goals as Kostitsyn and only 5 more shots in 2 more games and averaging more ice time (including PP)

[Guest CanadianMike]

If we want to develop him into what he's capable of then we have to play him. None of this "if the teams winning then keep it the same" stuff.

oh so now Kosts should go above the team winning. I get it!

[Guest Jesus Price]

oh so now Kosts should go above the team winning. I get it!

Kostitsyn in the lineup is in no way shape or form hurting out chances at winning. Latendresse is not good enough offensively at this stage in his career to play on a scoring line, he is much better sutied in a checking role. Put Kosti with Pleks and Kovy, Gui with Smokes and Grabs, and Kostopo with Begin and Chipper, and sit Dandy

[Guest CanadianMike]

Think of it this way, when Kosts comes back he will probably never go in the pressbox again this season. He will start scoring for this team (something we need him to do).

[Guest TheFly]

I suppose, Jesus, what I am trying to say, is that I am not convinced that he is the talent that he is said to be. I think people are over-interpreting his play, and so the incentive for me to put him back in (if I am carbo) is less than it is say. for you or someone else. Part of the reason he is benched is because he did not impress during his first 8 games. What does that say about the efficacy of him in the lineup? You are saying we may not develop him to his full capability. How do you, or anyone else, know what that full capability is? The only way you can see what a player is capable of is through his performance. So far, it has been lacking, and that is why he is sitting. You cannot have a good junior career and be a swifty skater and make that the reason that you should have a full spot on the team. You've gotta outplay your teammates, and he is not doing that. So for me, his capabilities this season have been quite limited.

Yah and Latendresse played 13 games without impressing anyone, infact he played even worse then what Kostitsyn had played and you know what he did, WE PROMOTED HIM TO THE FIRST LINE!! I didnt anyone complain when that happened you know why...Its because Latendresse is Quebecois, and thats what it comes down to, theres no denying the issue here. Even as we speak Latendresse isnt playing that good and has got better treatment then Perezhogin, Kostitsyn and Grabovski as of right now!

[Guest JIMVINNY]

Kostitsyn in the lineup is in no way shape or form hurting out chances at winning. Latendresse is not good enough offensively at this stage in his career to play on a scoring line, he is much better sutied in a checking role. Put Kosti with Pleks and Kovy, Gui with Smokes and Grabs, and Kostopo with Begin and Chipper, and sit Dandy

Why on earth would we sit dandy... unbelievable. why should a player who is helping the team win sit just so Kostitsyn can "hopefully" play better? He should not get to play at the expense of a suposedly less "talented" player who is clearly playing better than he is. Talented players fail all the time.

I'm not taking a run at Kostitsyn, or saying that he is going to fail, but let's start being realistic. Dandy's putting up better numbers playing on a lesser line. Simple as that.

[Guest CanadianMike]

Yah and Latendresse played 13 games without impressing anyone, infact he played even worse then what Kostitsyn had played and you know what he did, WE PROMOTED HIM TO THE FIRST LINE!! I didnt anyone complain when that happened you know why...Its because Latendresse is Quebecois, and thats what it comes down to, theres no denying the issue here. Even as we speak Latendresse isnt playing that good and has got better treatment then Perezhogin, Kostitsyn and Grabovski as of right now!

oh oh

can't say I really disagree with the Lats part, but this is going off topic.

[JB-15]

Yah and Latendresse played 13 games without impressing anyone, infact he played even worse then what Kostitsyn had played and you know what he did, WE PROMOTED HIM TO THE FIRST LINE!! I didnt anyone complain when that happened you know why...Its because Latendresse is Quebecois, and thats what it comes down to, theres no denying the issue here. Even as we speak Latendresse isnt playing that good and has got better treatment then Perezhogin, Kostitsyn and Grabovski as of right now!

I am not supporting the way the team has handled latendresse. That is an entirely different issue (and frankly irrelevant in this thread). If you are going to respond in this thread, try to keep focused.

May I suggest you post in the Latendresse thread if you are so displeased with his performance.

Getting back to kostitsyn, there is no way that he ought to replace someone like dandenault. Dandenault is exactly what this team needs. He is unequivocally the hardest skater on the ice when he's out there. He has earned every single minute of his time. Kostitsyn takes shots but they are not good shots. Isn't that what people have been complaining about on here? An inability to finish? I see Kostitsyn as a Sergei Berezin caliber of a player. Flashy at times, but overrated by his supporters. I think people need to recognize that he is more consistently ineffective than he is an offensive threat.

[Guest TheFly]

I am not supporting the way the team has handled latendresse. That is an entirely different issue (and frankly irrelevant in this thread). If you are going to respond in this thread, try to keep focused.

May I suggest you post in the Latendresse thread if you are so displeased with his performance.

Getting back to kostitsyn, there is no way that he ought to replace someone like dandenault. Dandenault is exactly what this team needs. He is unequivocally the hardest skater on the ice when he's out there. He has earned every single minute of his time. Kostitsyn takes shots but they are not good shots. Isn't that what people have been complaining about on here? An inability to finish? I see Kostitsyn as a Sergei Berezin caliber of a player. Flashy at times, but overrated by his supporters. I think people need to recognize that he is more consistently ineffective than he is an offensive threat.

I completly disagree, when a defensemen is not good enough to earn his spot as a defensemen which is his main role, he should not take away a spot from a young developing forward who was sposed to go top 5 in the draft. Dandenault is a case of we feel to sorry to bench him so lets put him as a forward. Why put him as a forward when we have a potential first line winger sitting on the bench.

Secondly how can Kositsyn be overrated? He hasnt played more then 15 consecutive games in the nhl! How do we want him to gain confidence without letting him play? At this point I'd rather see him traded to another team or sent back to Russia, because this is the definition of wasting talent!

[Guest JIMVINNY]

I completly disagree, when a defensemen is not good enough to earn his spot as a defensemen which is his main role, he should not take away a spot from a young developing forward who was sposed to go top 5 in the draft. Dandenault is a case of we feel to sorry to bench him so lets put him as a forward. Why put him as a forward when we have a potential first line winger sitting on the bench.

Secondly how can Kositsyn be overrated? He hasnt played more then 15 consecutive games in the nhl! How do we want him to gain confidence without letting him play? At this point I'd rather see him traded to another team or sent back to Russia, because this is the definition of wasting talent!

In my opinion, having a player that has the ability to competitively play both defense and forward, not only even-strength, but also on the penalty kill, makes him much more valuable than an under-producing first round pick, regardess of whether he was supposed to be top-five or not. And how can he be overrated? Well, you just stated that a 10th overall pick should have been taken in the Top 5. Isn't that clearly overrating him?

[jigger-1]

I completly disagree, when a defensemen is not good enough to earn his spot as a defensemen which is his main role, he should not take away a spot from a young developing forward who was sposed to go top 5 in the draft. Dandenault is a case of we feel to sorry to bench him so lets put him as a forward. Why put him as a forward when we have a potential first line winger sitting on the bench.

Secondly how can Kositsyn be overrated? He hasnt played more then 15 consecutive games in the nhl! How do we want him to gain confidence without letting him play? At this point I'd rather see him traded to another team or sent back to Russia, because this is the definition of wasting talent!

Knowing Carbonneau, you just answered your own question here. Chances are he wasn't happy with his defensive play. Not his offensive play. Hence Dandy being in, and him being out.

Regardless, I really think this is a normal progression for this kid. Just because he sits a few games doesn't mean anybody has given up on him. Chipchura sat, Grabovski sat, even Begin sat. Now they've all scored, made the adjustments the coaching staff asked for, and helped the team.

You have to look at things in perspective. Every player goes through it.

[JB-15]

I completly disagree, when a defensemen is not good enough to earn his spot as a defensemen which is his main role, he should not take away a spot from a young developing forward who was sposed to go top 5 in the draft. Dandenault is a case of we feel to sorry to bench him so lets put him as a forward. Why put him as a forward when we have a potential first line winger sitting on the bench.

Secondly how can Kositsyn be overrated? He hasnt played more then 15 consecutive games in the nhl! How do we want him to gain confidence without letting him play? At this point I'd rather see him traded to another team or sent back to Russia, because this is the definition of wasting talent!

This is not midget houseleague hockey. Management does not feel sorry for players. No one feels sorry for people making hundreds of thousands of dollars, or millions, to do what they love. Dandenault is in the lineup because he has proven to be valuable at his assigned position. He is helping the team immensely right now.

Kostitsyn is overrated precisely because he has only played 15 games. Players can gain confidence and prove themselves in practice. If the team sees him consistently out hustling other players in practice, he will get some ice time. If he isnt being re-inserted, its because the coaching staff hasnt seen any improvement in his work ethic or playmaking (or whatever their complaint may be).

[Guest Jesus Price]

Why on earth would we sit dandy... unbelievable. why should a player who is helping the team win sit just so Kostitsyn can "hopefully" play better? He should not get to play at the expense of a suposedly less "talented" player who is clearly playing better than he is. Talented players fail all the time.

I'm not taking a run at Kostitsyn, or saying that he is going to fail, but let's start being realistic. Dandy's putting up better numbers playing on a lesser line. Simple as that.

Thats usually how you develop young talent. By throwing them out there and "hopefully" they play better. Not everybody is Sidney Crosby where they can come in and take the league by storm. Andrei may be as good of an offensive talent as we have, but he will never develop if he is in the pressbox.

Dandenault has put up 1 more point then Kosti in 2 less games, so its not as easy as saying "Simple as that"

So yeah, let's start being realistic. Do we really need Kostopo, Dandy, and Begin all in the lineup every night?

As for Lats, he was given many chances to get it going, plus he was eating up bigger minutes playing on our top line. I dont understand why people have made it seem like Kosti has played so bad? because he only has 1 goal? the guy has 16 shots, and imo has played good hockey. IMO he has played alot better then Grabs has so far this year. Like I said before 6 games is NOT enough to prove your value. If we dont want Kosti on a top line why not put him with a guy like Smolinski? that way he can have a solid defensive presence. Play him with Grabs Smoke Kosti..