Marian Hossa

[teststory]

Hossa is now saying he's willing to take a pay cut to stay in Pittsburgh. How much that paycut would entail is anybody's guess. His cap hit this year was already $6 million. Let's say he re-signs with Pittsburgh for that same amount. It's just possible they may be able to get Fleury squared away and still have the necessary cash next year for Malkin. However, doing so all but guarantees that guys like Malone, Orpik, Ruutu, and Laraque will walk, and it provides no certainty that they can re-sign Staal next summer.

Still that is a pretty scary team even if Malone, Laraque, and Ruutu walk. A full season with Crosby/Hossa on one line and Malkin/Sykora on another line would mean the Pens would probably be first in the league in offense next year. I still don't know if they can win it all though a they aren't the defensive team that Detroit is. Detroit also has a relentless forcheck.

[babinator77]

Hossa is now saying he's willing to take a pay cut to stay in Pittsburgh. How much that paycut would entail is anybody's guess. His cap hit this year was already $6 million. Let's say he re-signs with Pittsburgh for that same amount. It's just possible they may be able to get Fleury squared away and still have the necessary cash next year for Malkin. However, doing so all but guarantees that guys like Malone, Orpik, Ruutu, and Laraque will walk, and it provides no certainty that they can re-sign Staal next summer.

do you have a source or a link for this? it would make him one of the first that i can think of - i don't count big name players who sign for a 'discount' because they make millions in endorsements. like you said, i wonder what kind of a discount we're talking here. if that frees up malone i won't complain.

[tmash]

Hossa is now saying he's willing to take a pay cut to stay in Pittsburgh. How much that paycut would entail is anybody's guess. His cap hit this year was already $6 million. Let's say he re-signs with Pittsburgh for that same amount. It's just possible they may be able to get Fleury squared away and still have the necessary cash next year for Malkin. However, doing so all but guarantees that guys like Malone, Orpik, Ruutu, and Laraque will walk, and it provides no certainty that they can re-sign Staal next summer.

I know I can't prove this, but let me just say there is absolutely no way he signs for only 6 million. If he does I'll, I don't know, wear a Maple Leafs sig for a week on here: I'm that confident. When players say they'll take less to be on a competitive team, they usually mean that they won't just take the best offer that comes their way. They aren't just going to play for half their worth, I've simply never seen that happen. Markov wanted to stay in Montreal, and he probably took a small pay cut (relative to the open market) to do so, but he didn't just come back for half of what he'd make on another team. And you can't really think of it as Hossa only making 6 million in his last contract. It's possible he looks at sheer dollars, but more likely his agent will look at what that contract was worth when he signed it, 6 million under a 39 million cap was 15.4% of a team's payroll. This offseason, that is equal to about 8.47 million. And on top of that he's likely due for a raise since overall his last contract was fairly successful, he's coming off a strong playoff run, and he's now more experienced.

If Hossa signed for 6 million this offseason, adjusting for cap inflation from the time their contracts were signed, he is essentially making less than Koivu, Kovalev, Markov, and Hamrlik to give comparisons on our team. Maybe Hossa turns down an 11 million deal to take a 10 million one with a competative team, but that's about it.

On top of that, Pittsburgh is far from the only competitive team, and I'd take the quote moreso to mean "I don't want to be with a team guaranteed to miss the playoffs for the rest of my contract" than "there's only one or two teams I want to play for". Hossa will still be getting offered far more than 6 million by other competative teams.

[fourtrax]

do you have a source or a link for this?

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/Playo...5798476-ap.html

A year ago, Crosby re-signed for less money - an average of US$8.7 million per season through 2012-13 - to help keep the Penguins together. Hossa, who meshed so well with Crosby after being added at the Feb. 26 trading deadline, is willing to do the same thing.

"I'd rather take less and play on a good team," Hossa said. "Hopefully, I can return here and be part of this organization but, with the salary cap, I know how hard it is. There's lots of players to be signed, so we'll see what's going to happen."

I know I can't prove this, but let me just say there is absolutely no way he signs for only 6 million. If he does I'll, I don't know, wear a Maple Leafs sig for a week on here: I'm that confident. When players say they'll take less to be on a competitive team, they usually mean that they won't just take the best offer that comes their way. They aren't just going to play for half their worth, I've simply never seen that happen. Markov wanted to stay in Montreal, and he probably took a small pay cut (relative to the open market) to do so, but he didn't just come back for half of what he'd make on another team. And you can't really think of it as Hossa only making 6 million in his last contract. It's possible he looks at sheer dollars, but more likely his agent will look at what that contract was worth when he signed it, 6 million under a 39 million cap was 15.4% of a team's payroll. This offseason, that is equal to about 8.47 million. And on top of that he's likely due for a raise since overall his last contract was fairly successful, he's coming off a strong playoff run, and he's now more experienced.

If Hossa signed for 6 million this offseason, adjusting for cap inflation from the time their contracts were signed, he is essentially making less than Koivu, Kovalev, Markov, and Hamrlik to give comparisons on our team. Maybe Hossa turns down an 11 million deal to take a 10 million one with a competative team, but that's about it.

On top of that, Pittsburgh is far from the only competitive team, and I'd take the quote moreso to mean "I don't want to be with a team guaranteed to miss the playoffs for the rest of my contract" than "there's only one or two teams I want to play for". Hossa will still be getting offered far more than 6 million by other competative teams.

Oh, I entirely agree with you. I don't think there is really any chance of Hossa signing for $6 million. Everyone talks the talk at this time of year but what happens on July 1 is a whole different story (remember how Souray wanted to stay here? ). I just find it interesting that Hossa is now talking about taking less money to play for a winner. Who knows, though, you could be right that the 'winner' might not be the Pens.

[tmash]

Oh, I entirely agree with you. I don't think there is really any chance of Hossa signing for $6 million. Everyone talks the talk at this time of year but what happens on July 1 is a whole different story (remember how Souray wanted to stay here? ). I just find it interesting that Hossa is now talking about taking less money to play for a winner. Who knows, though, you could be right that the 'winner' might not be the Pens.

Okay I get what you're saying. I think in general players say a lot that they want to be on a competitor, but it comes down to finding the best fit overall, which will be a mixture of salary, competativeness and other factors.

But even so, I want to continue on your last point which is there any way they can keep the popular players from this year together?

Let's see, right now you have Crosby at 8.75 million. The other players are anybody's guess, but I'll try to make a few estimates

Malkin: 8.5 - 10

Hossa: 9 - 11

Fleury: 4.5 - 7

Staal (this is tough since next year will determine a lot): 2.5 - 5

So that gives the 5 players a cap hit of about 33 to 42 million. After this season the cap is expected to be about 60 million. So the question is with 18 to 27 million, can the Pens sign an entire defense, two top six forwards, six bottom six forwards, a backup goalie, and any reserve players (if they want to use up the 23 man roster)? They could do it, but I don't think it's worth it. A championship team normally spends that amount on their defense alone. So while technically the Pens could afford all five, I think they'll want to avoid the Tampa "big three" situation.

[babinator77]

I know I can't prove this, but let me just say there is absolutely no way he signs for only 6 million. If he does I'll, I don't know, wear a Maple Leafs sig for a week on here: I'm that confident. When players say they'll take less to be on a competitive team, they usually mean that they won't just take the best offer that comes their way. They aren't just going to play for half their worth, I've simply never seen that happen. Markov wanted to stay in Montreal, and he probably took a small pay cut (relative to the open market) to do so, but he didn't just come back for half of what he'd make on another team. And you can't really think of it as Hossa only making 6 million in his last contract. It's possible he looks at sheer dollars, but more likely his agent will look at what that contract was worth when he signed it, 6 million under a 39 million cap was 15.4% of a team's payroll. This offseason, that is equal to about 8.47 million. And on top of that he's likely due for a raise since overall his last contract was fairly successful, he's coming off a strong playoff run, and he's now more experienced.

If Hossa signed for 6 million this offseason, adjusting for cap inflation from the time their contracts were signed, he is essentially making less than Koivu, Kovalev, Markov, and Hamrlik to give comparisons on our team. Maybe Hossa turns down an 11 million deal to take a 10 million one with a competative team, but that's about it.

On top of that, Pittsburgh is far from the only competitive team, and I'd take the quote moreso to mean "I don't want to be with a team guaranteed to miss the playoffs for the rest of my contract" than "there's only one or two teams I want to play for". Hossa will still be getting offered far more than 6 million by other competative teams.

when a player says they'll 'play for less' to win i think they usually mean less than market value not less than they're currently making. so, if you think he's worth 9-11 on the market (and i'm assuming that's only because he's the best available talent this year) than my guess is he'll sign for 8 and consider that a "discount".

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/Playo...5798476-ap.html

A year ago, Crosby re-signed for less money - an average of US$8.7 million per season through 2012-13 - to help keep the Penguins together. Hossa, who meshed so well with Crosby after being added at the Feb. 26 trading deadline, is willing to do the same thing.

"I'd rather take less and play on a good team," Hossa said. "Hopefully, I can return here and be part of this organization but, with the salary cap, I know how hard it is. There's lots of players to be signed, so we'll see what's going to happen."

thanks.

[fourtrax]

Let's see, right now you have Crosby at 8.75 million. The other players are anybody's guess, but I'll try to make a few estimates

Malkin: 8.5 - 10

Hossa: 9 - 11

Fleury: 4.5 - 7

Staal (this is tough since next year will determine a lot): 2.5 - 5

I can't see Fleury getting more than $4.5 million. He didn't play well enough to justify huge dollars and in fact let in some questionable soft goals at the worst possible times (e.g. Zetterberg's game-winning goal in game 6 should never have gone in).

Staal is a tough case, you're right. On the face of it, given his current numbers, he really should have no business commanding more than $2.5 or maybe $3 million, but his last name is Staal and we all know how the NHL loves its hockey families. The fact that he also plays behind two of the best centers in the game makes it even more difficult to properly assess his worth. Is he a Zetterberg in the making, or is he just propped up by Crosby and Malkin? There simply isn't enough evidence for us to make an informed decision.

I agree with your projections for Malkin and Hossa, though I would add the stipulation that Hossa will never make more than Malkin if both are signed to long-term contracts. Hossa only really has 5 more years of prime playing time left before his game starts to decline, whereas Malkin could theoretically play for 15 more years before experiencing any dropoff in his game.

A championship team normally spends that amount on their defense alone. So while technically the Pens could afford all five, I think they'll want to avoid the Tampa "big three" situation.

Agreed. And if you look at what killed them against Detroit, it's their D, which simply didn't measure up to the Red Wings' top-four. After Gonchar, the dropoff is huge. Orpik is a good defensive defenseman, but he too will be UFA and looking for raise after a very solid season. Whitney is good but still a work in progress. Gill sucks. Scuderi is a journeyman. Sydor will probably be bought out. Letang is too young to be a legit top-four guy right now. If the Penguins really want a Cup, it's their D, not their O, that needs an upgrade, and those upgrades will not be cheap.

[tmash]

when a player says they'll 'play for less' to win i think they usually mean less than market value not less than they're currently making. so, if you think he's worth 9-11 on the market (and i'm assuming that's only because he's the best available talent this year) than my guess is he'll sign for 8 and consider that a "discount".

It's all relative. I don't think he's saying any actual amount he wants. What I'd assume he means is he isn't just going to accept the best offer hands down. So say competitive teams offer him 10 million and Phoenix offers 11 million, he won't automatically take Phoneix's offer. I doubt he means that he definitely doesn't want to make what he's worth: just that if making the most means going to a crappy team, he may not do it.

[tmash]

I can't see Fleury getting more than $4.5 million. He didn't play well enough to justify huge dollars and in fact let in some questionable soft goals at the worst possible times (e.g. Zetterberg's game-winning goal in game 6 should never have gone in).

Staal is a tough case, you're right. On the face of it, given his current numbers, he really should have no business commanding more than $2.5 or maybe $3 million, but his last name is Staal and we all know how the NHL loves its hockey families. The fact that he also plays behind two of the best centers in the game makes it even more difficult to properly assess his worth. Is he a Zetterberg in the making, or is he just propped up by Crosby and Malkin? There simply isn't enough evidence for us to make an informed decision.

I agree with your projections for Malkin and Hossa, though I would add the stipulation that Hossa will never make more than Malkin if both are signed to long-term contracts. Hossa only really has 5 more years of prime playing time left before his game starts to decline, whereas Malkin could theoretically play for 15 more years before experiencing any dropoff in his game.

Good poitns on them. And since Malkin will most likely sign after Hossa, he will probably make a bit more. He'll only be a RFA, but he could hold off or sign an offer sheet for close to the league maximum.

Fleury I also had trouble judging. I'm thinking he will probably land around 5 million. That isn't a whole lot under a 55 million cap, and he did show that he is most likely the real deal this season. And while there were some bad goals, he still did manage to get his team to the finals and overall showed he can play in the postseason. On the other hand, it hasn't been that long since he was disappointing most games.

[zenderjetta]

Hossa has almost no trade value, while Malkin has tons. It's not really Malkin vs Hossa, but moreso Malkin vs Hossa + what you'd get in return for Malkin

I'd have to think if he was signed Hossa would have huge trade value. I can't think of elite wingers who become available right in their prime. Hossa is only 28 and has scored fifty goals and a hundred points. He showed through the playoffs he can play fantastic hockey. Hossa's got to have at least four years of great hockey left in him.

[babinator77]

It's all relative. I don't think he's saying any actual amount he wants. What I'd assume he means is he isn't just going to accept the best offer hands down. So say competitive teams offer him 10 million and Phoenix offers 11 million, he won't automatically take Phoneix's offer. I doubt he means that he definitely doesn't want to make what he's worth: just that if making the most means going to a crappy team, he may not do it.

essentially i was agreeing with you - hossa signing for 6mil made no sense, it's less than he's making now in salary (not cap hit) - and your argument is basically what i meant maybe i just didn't word it properly or we have different ideas about what we estimate hossa to be worth.

[tmash]

I'd have to think if he was signed Hossa would have huge trade value. I can't think of elite wingers who become available right in their prime. Hossa is only 28 and has scored fifty goals and a hundred points. He showed through the playoffs he can play fantastic hockey. Hossa's got to have at least four years of great hockey left in him.

Well I meant while he isn't signed he has almost no trade value. Once he's signed, I think he'll have zero trade value because he'll likely have a NTC or NMC (they are pretty standard in most of the big contracts being signed nowadays) that he will be unwilling to waive, especially less than a year after signing the deal. Now if theoretically Pittsburgh got him without a NTC and didn't look like total jerks for trading a guy they just signed long term - yes he'll have good trade value (probably not quite Malkin's, since Malkin is younger and has more potential, but both will be high). However, realistically, this won't happen and if they sign Hossa, he isn't tradeable for quite awhile, meanwhile Malkin, even unsigned, will have great trade value.

Basically what I'm saying is if they want to let Hossa walk, that's fine. But they could sign him and then get a great return for Malkin. It wouldn't really work the other way around.

essentially i was agreeing with you - hossa signing for 6mil made no sense, it's less than he's making now in salary (not cap hit) - and your argument is basically what i meant maybe i just didn't word it properly or we have different ideas about what we estimate hossa to be worth.

I may have misinterpreted you when you said something like "if he's worth 9 then he'll sign for 8" If you mean "if he's worth 9, he'll only be looking for 8" I disagree, if you mean "if he's worth 9 he may be willing to sign for 8 in the right situation (although would still like 9)" then I agree.

[babinator77]

I may have misinterpreted you when you said something like "if he's worth 9 then he'll sign for 8" If you mean "if he's worth 9, he'll only be looking for 8" I disagree, if you mean "if he's worth 9 he may be willing to sign for 8 in the right situation (although would still like 9)" then I agree.

i'm hard pressed to think of any recent player who 'signed for less' - markov being one of the very few exceptions as i don't count the thortons and crosbys of the league because they make millions in endorsements anyway - so i don't believe that hossa will "sign for less" by any means. i think he'll take the best offer. but, someone posted that hossa has said that he's willing to take less to sign with a winning club and my argument was yes, he'll sign for maybe just under (not millions under or years less) the best offer to join a club with which he feels comfortable.

but looking back on my post, i didn't word it properly so the confusion was my fault. i was referring to players in general with general figures when they say they'll sign for less which never means less than their current (which was suggested) but maybe less than the high-end of the market. if he's worth 9-11 i shouldn't have written 8 but 10.5mil for a year longer .