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Touch Icing


  

28 members have voted

  1. 1. What Should the NHL Do About Icing

    • Keep It The Same
      12
    • Go No-Touch
      8
    • Hybrid Solution
      6


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Guest Wayne
Mr. Baketball Betthead will not bring this issue to a head (no pun intended) UNTIL someone is killed or crippled.
far be it from me to let facts get in the way of your oh so mature and intelligent comment, but the Commissioner doesn't set the playing rules of the NHL... that's done by the Competition Committee, of which the Commissioner is NOT a member...
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I've been campaining to go with the no-touch icing for a few years now, and I think that the league needs to take it's head out of the sand and change it.

I was watching TSN last night and discovered something that explains why it hasn't been changed yet... They phone every GM and got responses from 28 of them to which they asked which way they would vote. 18 voted in favour of keeping the rule as is, 8 were in favour of going with the no-touch icing and one (who used to want to keep the rule as is) is now undecided. As we all know, GMs are the ones voting on rule changes so... Worse, they were bringing up this rule every year and had decided at the last annual meeting not to bring it up again for 3 years!

On the other hand, a majority of the players interviewed were in favour of changing the rule to the no-touch icing. TSN had a poll yesterday and 72% of the fans wanted that rule changed. My question to the league and GMs would be: why such a minority gets to decide what's good for the game and why not consult the players and/or the fans?

EDIT: A moderator should add a poll to this thread to find out which way the members here would be voting...

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Guest Dintrox12

I like it the way it is.. like I heard a GM say hockey is an inherently dangerous game.. people get hurt. The icing the way it is occasionally rewards speedy players who work hard to get the puck. I think if you take away that aspect you are gonna get a whole lot of lazy D men cheating on the point..

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I think if you take away that aspect you are gonna get a whole lot of lazy D men cheating on the point..

Not now that they play without the red center line they can't...

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Guest habsgal
far be it from me to let facts get in the way of your oh so mature and intelligent comment, but the Commissioner doesn't set the playing rules of the NHL... that's done by the Competition Committee, of which the Commissioner is NOT a member...
Listen to the professor of gratefulness. Get off your high horse. :rolleyes: Here's some hay for you...

I am fully AWARE that the GM's decide and it goes back to the meetings. I LOVE getting digs in about he commish because that idiot should go back where he came from, the NBA.

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Guest thefooligan5
I've been campaining to go with the no-touch icing for a few years now, and I think that the league needs to take it's head out of the sand and change it.

I was watching TSN last night and discovered something that explains why it hasn't been changed yet... They phone every GM and got responses from 28 of them to which they asked which way they would vote. 18 voted in favour of keeping the rule as is, 8 were in favour of going with the no-touch icing and one (who used to want to keep the rule as is) is now undecided. As we all know, GMs are the ones voting on rule changes so... Worse, they were bringing up this rule every year and had decided at the last annual meeting not to bring it up again for 3 years!

On the other hand, a majority of the players interviewed were in favour of changing the rule to the no-touch icing. TSN had a poll yesterday and 72% of the fans wanted that rule changed. My question to the league and GMs would be: why such a minority gets to decide what's good for the game and why not consult the players and/or the fans?

EDIT: A moderator should add a poll to this thread to find out which way the members here would be voting...

Agreed. I hadn't thought about a poll but if someone can that would be a great addition.

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Guest Wayne
Listen to the professor of gratefulness. Get off your high horse. :rolleyes: Here's some hay for you...

I am fully AWARE that the GM's decide and it goes back to the meetings. I LOVE getting digs in about he commish because that idiot should go back where he came from, the NBA.

well, if bashing the Commissioner is all you want to do then start a thread for it and leave it out of a discussion where it doesn't belong... I'm sure there would be lots of interest in such a thread...

and 'aware' you may be that the GM's decide, but you'd be wrong... ultimately, all proposed rule changes have to be approved by the Board of Governors, not the GMs... and even if all the non-GM Governors were to vote how their GMs tell them, the GMs still don't have the power to unilaterally present a proposed rule change to the BofG in the first place... the Competition Committee has to approve of the proposal first and since players make up half the Committee, they can prevent a rule change from even being proposed... so the GMs do NOT decide...

currently, the Committee consists of Brendan Shanahan, Jarome Iginla, Trevor Linden, Marty Turco and Rob Blake for the players and the management side is made up of GMs David Poile (Nashville), Don Waddell (Atlanta), Bob Gainey (Montreal) and Kevin Lowe (Edmonton) and Philadelphia chairman Ed Snider...

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Guest Greek Hab

Laziness is what's going to happen. Watching the WJC this Christmas, with their no touch-icing, frustrated the hell out of me.

If we're going to get rid of no touch icing, we might aswell get rid of the trapazoid behind the net, since the goalie won't have to worry about opposing team players trying to freeze the icing call. Goalies can then make a play, and theis new rule won't be slowing down play.

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Guest 1stroundpick

Lets not be stupid. In what instance would you not call the no touch icing? The instance where there was a battle for the puck? If thats the case and I cant see what other case there would be, thats why the rule needs to be changed in the first place. The whole reasoning for NO TOUCH ICING is to avoid injuries. So lets do it just like the Euros!

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Guest habsgal
well, if bashing the Commissioner is all you want to do then start a thread for it and leave it out of a discussion where it doesn't belong... I'm sure there would be lots of interest in such a thread...

and 'aware' you may be that the GM's decide, but you'd be wrong... ultimately, all proposed rule changes have to be approved by the Board of Governors, not the GMs... and even if all the non-GM Governors were to vote how their GMs tell them, the GMs still don't have the power to unilaterally present a proposed rule change to the BofG in the first place... the Competition Committee has to approve of the proposal first and since players make up half the Committee, they can prevent a rule change from even being proposed... so the GMs do NOT decide...

currently, the Committee consists of Brendan Shanahan, Jarome Iginla, Trevor Linden, Marty Turco and Rob Blake for the players and the management side is made up of GMs David Poile (Nashville), Don Waddell (Atlanta), Bob Gainey (Montreal) and Kevin Lowe (Edmonton) and Philadelphia chairman Ed Snider...

I will stay right where I'm at, tyvm. OH I AM SURE that a few hundred threads were derailed if only for a bit while trying to make a point. It's posters like you that keep the lurkers where they're at - lurking. Your rude comments from your original answer was very uncalled for.

And by the way - the GM's DO HAVE clout when it comes to rule changes. The committee members are messengers more often than not. Past history will tell you that. You're sadly mistaken if you believe otherwise!

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Guest norbjr21

Personally, I agree with some of the GMs in the article; you cant get too reactionary to every incident. While people can get hurt trying to touch up, the frequency of the incidents to major injuries is really low. I would wager to say that on more occasions the touch up to save an icing has led to more goals and great plays than it has injuries.

If you leave it up to the discretion of the referees, this will obviously turn into arguments where the losing team, or losing teams fans most likely, argue that the ref cost them the game. While that may not mean much, there is no sense in adding rules that could take something away from the players and their accomplishments.

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Guest Wayne
And by the way - the GM's DO HAVE clout when it comes to rule changes. The committee members are messengers more often than not. Past history will tell you that. You're sadly mistaken if you believe otherwise!
can you provide even one example to support your claims?... I can certainly provide one that shows the Committee doesn't answer to the GMs... 'past history' and current fact, in the way of Article 22 of the CBA, are on my side... what do you have? you've made the claims, now back them up if you can... or are you the one who is sadly mistaken?...
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Guest shamrun
http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/mckenzie/?id=232516

It's from the USHL, Bob Mckenzie explains it pretty well. But essentially the linesman can call no-touch icing or regular icing depending ont he situation.

sounds like the hybrid solution can bring a hybrid-problem. The refs are already having a hard with a lot of calls already. I say keep it the way it is

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Guest habsgal
can you provide even one example to support your claims?... I can certainly provide one that shows the Committee doesn't answer to the GMs... 'past history' and current fact, in the way of Article 22 of the CBA, are on my side... what do you have? you've made the claims, now back them up if you can... or are you the one who is sadly mistaken?...

:rolleyes: Let's just say that I had a conversation about this very same issue with Jean Beliveau. And he reassured me that, yes, very well indeed, "the GM's have more clout than you know when it comes to rule change". I'll take his word over what others think that they believe.

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Guest Madhabbler

my hybrid solution would be to just dont blow a whistle no icing at all u remove the 2 lines in the back for the goalie and u let the goalie play it, it would open up the game add to the lack of goals they complain about and make for some damn good hockey also a team like montreal or newjersey or islanders would excell as we have puck moving goalies i think it would rock :)

let me know what u guys think

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Guest Wayne
:rolleyes: Let's just say that I had a conversation about this very same issue with Jean Beliveau. And he reassured me that, yes, very well indeed, "the GM's have more clout than you know when it comes to rule change". I'll take his word over what others think that they believe.
as much as I admire and respect Jean Beliveau as a hockey player and a gentleman, he has never been a GM, he has not worked for the Habs in anything other than an unofficial ambassadorial role in the past 15 years and mostly in a PR role before that, and he certainly has had absolutely nothing to do with hockey operations in the past 3 years, i.e. the period covered by the current CBA, so his opinion is not based on current facts or experience... I don't doubt GMs ruled the roost in Beliveau's day but they don't anymore... since you still have not provided even a single example to support your claims, I will assume you can't...

I, however, have written documentation, empirical evidence, and the comments of a prominent, current GM and the NHL VP from just over a year ago on my side... specifically, Article 22 of the CBA; the fact that at the Feb. 2007 GM meetings, they actually agreed to a change to the instigator rule, but the proposal was not approved by the Competition Committee and therefore was never presented to the Board of Governors for approval -- I don't doubt that anything the BofG votes on will go the way the GMs want, but the GMs have to get it to them first; Ducks GM Brian Burke: "I think it's a great idea to have player input, but the competition committee should report to the managers" and "Because it doesn't report to the managers. I have no interest in being on the competition committee"... NHL VP Colin Campbell on the competition committee: "Whether we like it or not, we negotiated it. So we have to live with it."... I doubt you'll find two more knowledgable men about current hockey operations, so I'll take their words over what others think they know...

so it's the opinion of a great man who has not been involved in hockey operations in decades or actual proof of how the system actually works now...

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Guest Wayne
my hybrid solution would be to just dont blow a whistle no icing at all u remove the 2 lines in the back for the goalie and u let the goalie play it, it would open up the game add to the lack of goals they complain about and make for some damn good hockey also a team like montreal or newjersey or islanders would excell as we have puck moving goalies i think it would rock :)

let me know what u guys think

if you're proposing the elimination of icing completely, I think that would be absolutely horrible... what I think would happen is once a defending team feels any pressure at all they would 'ice' the puck and even though the goalie could play it and get it back up to center quickly, the attacking team still has to exit the zone so the defenders have a chance to just line up across the blue line and the attackers would have a problem getting into the zone again... if they try to dump it in, the defending goalie or the first defender back would just fire it right back out again, and repeat for 60 minutes... it'd be AWFUL!

in fact, one of the things that has actually worked out the way they planned it is the increased scoring opportunites when teams that ice the puck can't make a line change... remove icing and it's 'penalty' and it'd kill the game...

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Guest Wayne

the reason guys get hurt is the puck often stays close to the end boards when iced, so if they have any reason to race right to the end of the rink, i.e. to get or prevent the icing call or even if icing has already been waved off, the risk is there... I don't think the hybrid solves that problem, it may remove the risk in a few instances, but it leaves it in others... and considering how often an injury actually occurs on an icing play, is a half measure like the hybrid system really going to make much of a difference? enough of a difference to warrant adding such confusion for the casual fan and another 'judgement' call for the players argue?

either leave it the way it is or go all the way with no-touch icing, no in betweens...

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