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I dont think so! I think at most he will be a star. I saw him play 3 times this year and I was not impressed with what I saw. I saw Stamkos play at the same age and was far more impressed. The kid can score I give him that...but he seems slow and he also seems to coast a lot! If I were drafting #1 OA in 2009 I think I would take Hedman! Defenceman of his size and skill set dont grow on trees!

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I dont think so! I think at most he will be a star. I saw him play 3 times this year and I was not impressed with what I saw. I saw Stamkos play at the same age and was far more impressed. The kid can score I give him that...but he seems slow and he also seems to coast a lot! If I were drafting #1 OA in 2009 I think I would take Hedman! Defenceman of his size and skill set dont grow on trees!

Tavares plays sorta like Malkin. I wouldn't say he coasts more or less he "swoops" when the puck is infront of him he will explode and chase it down he has speed but he's young and he definatley a future star if he stays healthy.

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Neither Tavares or Stamkos impressed me as being well above the pack this year.

I expected them to stand out on Team Canada at the World Junoirs but Kyle Turris in in my mind stood out more.

In the OHL playoffs they were shutdown; one by Belleville and the other by Kitchener. There is no doubt they will be good players but I am not so sure either are in the category of a Malkin or Crosby. Maybe they will blossom into something more once they get to the NHL.

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  • 2 months later...

I think Toronto is going to try some type of free agent signing for Tavares. I know that he played in CHL the past few seasons but there might be a backdoor to sign Travares. Not at all sure what the backdoor would involve but maybe they just do it and see if the NHL or AHL or someone voids the contract.

I guess it could be argued that is a player the property of a team or league. Sort of slavery. Of course huge exception is millions of dollars.

Gretzky turned pro at 17 and then the league joined the NHL the next season.

Béliveau was so good that Montreal Canadiens purchased the entire league.

Therefore do the ultra rich Maple Leafs put Travares into a PRO team or league this season and then sign him as a free agent next summer avoiding the draft lottery of the NHL.

Opinions. Is it possible for the incredibly rich Leafs to obtain Tavares without drafting him?

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Forget about that Toronto thing, it never made any sense. Even if the Leafs could properly explit all the loopholes, Tavares would have to spend something like 3 years on an AHL contract, without any shot at the NHL. Why on earth would he do that. It was a bizarre story at the time and it's just as bizarre now.

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Forget about that Toronto thing, it never made any sense. Even if the Leafs could properly explit all the loopholes, Tavares would have to spend something like 3 years on an AHL contract, without any shot at the NHL. Why on earth would he do that. It was a bizarre story at the time and it's just as bizarre now.

So if Tavares jumped to another pro league he would still have to go through the draft? That does not seem to make sense to me. That would be saying that the NHL does not respect the other pro league contracts which they just agreed to respect a few weeks ago even without a transfer agreement. So Tavares jumps to Europe or Russia in a few weeks. I don't think the CHL can stop him when he becomes 18 years of age in September. He plays this season in pro league which is no better or worse then playing in CHL for this season as far as development but the bonus is that he would make $$$$. Then next summer comes around and he is under contract for another season with the European team. So the NHL cannot draft him (my opinion) in 2009. He plays part of 2009-10 season in Europe (buyout on remainder of contract) and then magically jumps to Leafs for super hugh money and the NHL as a free agent. Just my opinion but I think Tavares could come into the NHL as a free agent which means that any team could sign him especially if they are the super rich Leafs.

The last few star players have all gone to US based teams. Maybe it would not be the worst if a Cdn team landed one of these super star players.

Can a player refuse to be drafted? I would think everyone has the right to say no. Just because a method of selecting players is established does not mean that it is right. Why should you have to move from your COUNTRY to join a mickey mouse team in southern USA?

I guess Tavares could also pull a Lindros and refuse to play for another NHL team except the Leafs.

Some people who say this is bad advice if Tavares pulled a Lindros. But why should anyone have to leave friends and family if they don't want to. Plus the Leafs would pay huge money.

The next super star coming from Quebec would be fair game for the Habs to try to convince to do the same. I guess I don't care if it is fair. It sucks that US teams get most of the super star players even though a large number of these players come from Canada.

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So if Tavares jumped to another pro league he would still have to go through the draft? That does not seem to make sense to me. That would be saying that the NHL does not respect the other pro league contracts which they just agreed to respect a few weeks ago even without a transfer agreement. So Tavares jumps to Europe or Russia in a few weeks. I don't think the CHL can stop him when he becomes 18 years of age in September. He plays this season in pro league which is no better or worse then playing in CHL for this season as far as development but the bonus is that he would make $$$$. Then next summer comes around and he is under contract for another season with the European team. So the NHL cannot draft him (my opinion) in 2009. He plays part of 2009-10 season in Europe (buyout on remainder of contract) and then magically jumps to Leafs for super hugh money and the NHL as a free agent. Just my opinion but I think Tavares could come into the NHL as a free agent which means that any team could sign him especially if they are the super rich Leafs.

The last few star players have all gone to US based teams. Maybe it would not be the worst if a Cdn team landed one of these super star players.

Can a player refuse to be drafted? I would think everyone has the right to say no. Just because a method of selecting players is established does not mean that it is right. Why should you have to move from your COUNTRY to join a mickey mouse team in southern USA?

I guess Tavares could also pull a Lindros and refuse to play for another NHL team except the Leafs.

Some people who say this is bad advice if Tavares pulled a Lindros. But why should anyone have to leave friends and family if they don't want to. Plus the Leafs would pay huge money.

The next super star coming from Quebec would be fair game for the Habs to try to convince to do the same. I guess I don't care if it is fair. It sucks that US teams get most of the super star players even though a large number of these players come from Canada.

two points: first, the draft combined with the salary cap system helps keep a certain balance in the league which also makes the whole season a lot more exciting because weak teams get stronger quickly if they draft well because they have the best shot at the elite talent. i do agree that for the players it must be something they don't really like but most of those kids are so exited about being able to play in the NHL that they seem to accept that as a fact and deal with it.

second. you criticize that because of the draft players have to leave their homes and play on a team far away. but then you also say that tavares could, to avoid that, go play 2 years in europe? where's the logic?

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So if Tavares jumped to another pro league he would still have to go through the draft? That does not seem to make sense to me. That would be saying that the NHL does not respect the other pro league contracts which they just agreed to respect a few weeks ago even without a transfer agreement. So Tavares jumps to Europe or Russia in a few weeks.

A draft has nothing to do with contracts. Drafting is a matter purely within a league, sort of like type of free agency. All it does is assign a players rights within a single league to a specific team. The example I bring up was the new WHA (who never played a single game). At the time Montreal held Michael Ryder's NHL rights while Hamilton or someone held his WHA rights: there is no conflict here, if he signs an NHL contract he has to play for Montreal, if he plays for the WHA he has to play for Hamilton (or whoever). I don't know that he ever agreed to be drafted: it doesn't matter, all a draft does is basically say "if you want to play within this league, you need to play for this team" - it doesn't tell the player they have to play for that league. There's nothing stopping Tavares from going to Europe, and the "agreement" has nothing to do with this situation: he'll be drafted, but not under contract.

I don't think the CHL can stop him when he becomes 18 years of age in September. He plays this season in pro league which is no better or worse then playing in CHL for this season as far as development but the bonus is that he would make $$$$. Then next summer comes around and he is under contract for another season with the European team. So the NHL cannot draft him (my opinion) in 2009. He plays part of 2009-10 season in Europe (buyout on remainder of contract) and then magically jumps to Leafs for super hugh money and the NHL as a free agent. Just my opinion but I think Tavares could come into the NHL as a free agent which means that any team could sign him especially if they are the super rich Leafs.

Would never happen. Even if a team thought there was very low chance of him signing in the NHL, some team will draft him with a 7th round pick or something because those picks are 'you never know' picks. I think if he could make it through one draft, he could be signed as an undrafted prospect. I suppose he could try to say that he'd rather hold out for 4 years than sign with a team who isn't Toronto in an attempt for him to either not get drafted or put off teams so he drops down to Toronto's position, but would another team call his bluff? Or would they be better off drafting him, and seeing if he changes his mind (Lemieux) or can get them a nice return from Toronto (Lindros).

Can a player refuse to be drafted? I would think everyone has the right to say no. Just because a method of selecting players is established does not mean that it is right. Why should you have to move from your COUNTRY to join a mickey mouse team in southern USA?

I don't know the NHL's internal protocols, but legally you can't stop yourself from being drafted. And you don't have to move anywhere, it just means if you want to be in the NHL you need to go through their entry process. If you don't like it, no one is making you play in the NHL. This isn't some human rights violation here. If you apply to work at say Nintendo wanting to work in Japan, but Nintendo says "we'll only let you work at our Seattle location" because of whatever reason (language, etc.) - is this wrong? You don't have to work there, but if you want to that bad, those are their conditions. Take it or leave it. If Tavares hates the NHL's conditions of entry, he doesn't have to play in the NHL.

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So if Tavares jumped to another pro league he would still have to go through the draft? That does not seem to make sense to me. That would be saying that the NHL does not respect the other pro league contracts which they just agreed to respect a few weeks ago even without a transfer agreement. So Tavares jumps to Europe or Russia in a few weeks. I don't think the CHL can stop him when he becomes 18 years of age in September. He plays this season in pro league which is no better or worse then playing in CHL for this season as far as development but the bonus is that he would make $$$$. Then next summer comes around and he is under contract for another season with the European team. So the NHL cannot draft him (my opinion) in 2009. He plays part of 2009-10 season in Europe (buyout on remainder of contract) and then magically jumps to Leafs for super hugh money and the NHL as a free agent. Just my opinion but I think Tavares could come into the NHL as a free agent which means that any team could sign him especially if they are the super rich Leafs.

Can a player refuse to be drafted? I would think everyone has the right to say no. Just because a method of selecting players is established does not mean that it is right. Why should you have to move from your COUNTRY to join a mickey mouse team in southern USA?

Uh well once you get drafted doesn't mean you have to play for your NHL/farm club. Look at all those russians who decide to stay home.

And I think the CHL can stop him from going to Europe when he becomes 18 years of age. I remember some ppl saying on this board that it wasn't because you were under 20 that you couldn't join your farm team in the AHL, but because your junior team might still have the rights until you become ineligible for juniors (20).

As for a guy to refuse to be drafted, if he's young and in juniors, I suppose he can let people know for example that he does not wish to play hockey for a living and then withdraw for the draft. But I don't know if he could just knock on a team's door for a tryout. I think that option is only for players who didn't get drafted because they got unnoticed or sucked too much, or if you are old enough, or already went through the draft once.

Mark Streit was 27 when he got drafted by the habs.

Andy McDonald was 22-23 when he signed with the Ducks while being not drafted.

Fedor Fedorov got drafted in 1999, played some junior, and then redrafted in 2001. He then played some ECHL and AHL and some NHL, went back to Russia, then came back for the Rangers when the nucks traded him. Then played with the Rangers and then the farm club, went back to Russia and now he signed witht he devils.

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I don't know the NHL's internal protocols, but legally you can't stop yourself from being drafted.

Your points are very good. However without enough power and money things can occur that should not occur. I have no believe that Taraves is planning on becoming a Leaf unless he is drafted by the Leafs. However, a super star player could push the team that drafts him like Lindros did with Quebec City.

Salary and endorsements. Tavares as a Leaf would earn huge money. Far bigger then Crosby or Gretzky ever earned in a single season. With that kind of money, greed, and fact that he will become a super star player better then Lindros or Crosby (IMHO) things could become interesting if the Leafs put everything into getting Tavares.

It is not a fluke that a billionaire is stopped from bringing a team from Nashville to Hamilton so a quality owner like Boots is able to make the NHL look like idiots. The magic $10 million difference from the NHL to the former owner of Nashville can via the Leafs. If they would pay $10 million to keep a team out of Hamilton that would not even hurt the team financially then how much would they pay to get the best young player since Lemieux and finally a chance to win the Cup.

This is just my opinion but any team with as much money and power as the Leafs could get Tavares into a Leafs organization within or outside of the "rules". MLSE is a $1.5 billion company with the Leafs considered $500 million, arena $500 million, and Raptors basketball $500 million. But everyone knows that without the Leafs making money hand over fist the other $1 billion does not exist. MLSE is far far bigger then the Canadiens financially. Heck the Teachers Pension Fund just purchased the largest telco in Canada. Money is not a problem for the stakeholders of MLSE. At some point even they know that they need to win the Cup or fans will stop following the team. Tavares is the best hope as he is going to be a super star and he is from near Toronto.

Of course MLSE is also the same organization that did not sign Gretzky near the end of his career as the salary was too high versus the benefit. Too many bean counters and not enough fans of winning games. They were already sold out for every game, tv revenue was great, and merchandising was raking in money. So paying Gretzky $10 to $15 million per season was just a waste of money. No consideration was given that Gretzky would have made the Leafs a better team and therefore a real Cup contender. The Leafs have never been a Cup contender since they last won in 1967. I had to watch a lot of Leafs games as the Montreal games were rarely broadcast. The Leafs skate around and get a huge pay cheque.

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And I think the CHL can stop him from going to Europe when he becomes 18 years of age. I remember some ppl saying on this board that it wasn't because you were under 20 that you couldn't join your farm team in the AHL, but because your junior team might still have the rights until you become ineligible for juniors (20).

I'm not sure how this works. I don't know if the CHL contracts are truly considered "contracts" since they are amateur or how that works. If these are actual contracts, then I'm not sure if the European leagues would honour them or not, since I'm sure the CHL has no agreement in place with them.

Salary and endorsements. Tavares as a Leaf would earn huge money. Far bigger then Crosby or Gretzky ever earned in a single season. With that kind of money, greed, and fact that he will become a super star player better then Lindros or Crosby (IMHO) things could become interesting if the Leafs put everything into getting Tavares.

I think you're overestimating Tavares. While nothing is impossible, when a bunch of scouts were asked before the last draft if Tavares were part of it where they'd take him, none said they'd take him above Stamkos, many wouldn't even take him before Dougherty.

And while Toronto would be a somewhat better endorsement market, the fact that the league sells Crosby means he has international endorsement deals and I doubt someone depending on local endorsements could ever beat this. Plus Tavares takes a hit in Toronto due to taxes.

This is just my opinion but any team with as much money and power as the Leafs could get Tavares into a Leafs organization within or outside of the "rules".

That's not true, there are rules, and money can only get you so far. Drafting players has pretty much been cleared of loopholes and the Leafs cannot legally do much about them. The problem with your statement is you say the Leafs could do "something" but no examples of what. If you can provide a realistic example of how money could get them around the drafting rules, I'd be more inclined to agree.

MLSE is far far bigger then the Canadiens financially. Heck the Teachers Pension Fund just purchased the largest telco in Canada. Money is not a problem for the stakeholders of MLSE. .

I think you have this backwards. The ownership situation is a potential hindrance on the Leafs. A private owner can do what he wants, he can lose money, pay as much as he wants for whatever, throw personal money into the team, etc. Being owned by a pension plan means that rules of money are much tighter, more controlled, and the managers are more accountable. The ownership can't just start pumping outside money into MLSE, in fact if it ever started losing money they'd probably need to sell immediately. Basically MLSE needs to exist as a positive investment or groups like the Pension Plan need to sell fast. Not doing so could technically land people in jail. So all the money in the Teachers Pension Plan is useless to the Leafs: that money can't really be touched, doing so would get people fired and/or in legal trouble. That's one of the Leafs problems, if the Leafs are ever seen as anything more than an investment, people will lose their jobs at TPP.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 4 months later...

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/juniors/200.../tavares_trade/

Sportsnet has learned John Tavares will soon be a member of the London Knights.

There has been a lot of speculation that Tavares would be traded before the Jan. 10 trade deadline and sources say the deal is done to send the Oshawa Generals forward to London. As per league rules, the deal cannot be formally announced until after the world junior tournament.

In return for Tavares, the package is believed to include forwards Phil Varone and Christian Thomas, defenceman Scott Valentine, as well as an undisclosed draft pick and cash considerations.

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  • 2 weeks later...

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