The-Anti-Senator Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 If he wasn't going to resign them he should have gotten us some high draft picks. Jokinen warranted a 1st rounder for example (and more), I'm sure Komisarek and Kovalev would have. At the trade deadline the team was just playing well enough to believe they would make the playoffs, and if some of the injured players came back, to make a decent playoff run. It was only after the deadline that everybody realized that the Canadiens would not do so and that they might have been better off trading away some of their assets to facilitate rebuilding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amp73 Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Are the habs gonna ice a 21 man team? Potential call ups Desharnais, Carle and Johansson Who ? Never heard of these three Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
77bourque77 Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Who ? Never heard of these three 2 guys in hamilton, and the guy we signed from sweeden? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyMan86 Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Anyway we can make a package to bring in kyle turris or martin hanzel? both centers up upside and are bigger then plecs. I am not sure how much turris or hanzel is worth to the phoenix but i checked the stats on turris and for some reason his stats don't look that impressive maybe a change of scene will do him some good or what? whats his story does anyone know? as for hanzel not much i know about him so if anyone knows anything about these two players and the chance of getting either reply please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amp73 Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 2 guys in hamilton, and the guy we signed from sweeden? Yes, I know who they are There is no way in the world these 3 make the big club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leafs_rock_go_mccabe Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 If he wasn't going to resign them he should have gotten us some high draft picks. Jokinen warranted a 1st rounder for example (and more), I'm sure Komisarek and Kovalev would have. I agree. At the deadline I was screaming for Komisarek and Kovalev to be traded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourtrax Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 So how many picks do you think we could have gotten for Tanguay, Kovy, Saku, and Komisarek? I'm thinking at least two first-rounders and three lower-round picks minimum. And how many picks have we wasted on nonsense the past few years? 1st round pick for Tanguay Perezhogin (1st-round choice) gone Komisarek (1st-round choice) gone Higgins (1st-round choice) gone McDonagh (1st-round choice) gone What a mess we've made of our first-round drafting, selling the farm to acquire aging veterans for a year or two, then letting those vets walk with no compensation. The next few years had better be all about replenishing our draft pool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HabHabit Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 So how many picks do you think we could have gotten for Tanguay, Kovy, Saku, and Komisarek? I'm thinking at least two first-rounders and three lower-round picks minimum. The next few years had better be all about replenishing our draft pool. There's no way we knew at the trade deadline we would not be bringing these guys back. Gainey had every intention of bringing Komisarek back even 3 days ago. The changes being made now are based on a retrospective look at the club over the last couple of seasons, including our dismal playoff performance. With the benefit of hindsight, it is an easy call to make now. Not so at the trade deadline. I don't know how even in a poor season you can concede that you don't have a chance to win the cup and cash in your players for picks. You have to assume that if you can make the playoffs, the team might be able to pull together and make a run. I do agree with you that we are leaving the pantry somewhat bare. But - I think we have also been guilty of having too many B-side prospects that haven't been ready to make the jump to the bigs, that have left without getting their shot. We need to (IMO) find a way to package our prospects and picks for more blue-chip options that will definitely benefit the big club. Personally - I like what Gainey is trying to do here. It was time for a change. Yes - it was costly in terms of our lost picks. New coaching, consistency between Hamilton and Montreal, a real SYSTEM and players suited to it, etc. However, two years ago - seeing his team finish first - I don't know how many of us would have honestly thought he was on the wrong track. I know I thought we had a great team for the "new" NHL. It was really after a meltdown last year and two dismal playoff runs that the realization that we would not be able to win with that team hit home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
77bourque77 Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Yes, I know who they are There is no way in the world these 3 make the big club hahah sorry regis, i figured you were being sarcastic but i wasnt sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiLla Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 What a mess we've made of our first-round drafting, selling the farm to acquire aging veterans for a year or two, then letting those vets walk with no compensation. The next few years had better be all about replenishing our draft pool. Well ... we've finally got some assets with trade value on this team. If you wanna stock up the farm, we can still trade Gomez, Gionta or Cammalleri at some point in the next 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruuvimeisseli Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Well ... we've finally got some assets with trade value on this team. If you wanna stock up the farm, we can still trade Gomez, Gionta or Cammalleri at some point in the next 5 years. Yep, but i was one of the people who wanted to see kovalev traded for picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jzun00 Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 I don't think that this team will crack 90 pts and could finish as low as 4th in our division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jzun00 Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 I don't think that this team will crack 90 pts and could finish as low as 4th in our division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jzun00 Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 I don't think that this team will crack 90 pts and could finish as low as 4th in our division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amp73 Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Well ... we've finally got some assets with trade value on this team. If you wanna stock up the farm, we can still trade Gomez, Gionta or Cammalleri at some point in the next 5 years. lol.......that's not BG's way of doing things He waits until they become UFA's so that he can lose them for nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayzor123 Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Yep, but i was one of the people who wanted to see kovalev traded for picks. We should've traded Komisarek for a few picks and prospects. We could've gotten a good return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfrancis Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 I don't think that this team will crack 90 pts and could finish as low as 4th in our division. I think this team will crack 90 points and could finish as high as 4th in the conference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kubby31 Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 lol.......that's not BG's way of doing things He waits until they become UFA's so that he can lose them for nothing Yea,he's got a track record going here,8-0 if I'm up to date on the # of players we have let walk & got nothing in return. GO GAINEY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmash Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 So how many picks do you think we could have gotten for Tanguay, Kovy, Saku, and Komisarek? I'm thinking at least two first-rounders and three lower-round picks minimum. And how many picks have we wasted on nonsense the past few years? 1st round pick for Tanguay Perezhogin (1st-round choice) gone Komisarek (1st-round choice) gone Higgins (1st-round choice) gone McDonagh (1st-round choice) gone What a mess we've made of our first-round drafting, selling the farm to acquire aging veterans for a year or two, then letting those vets walk with no compensation. The next few years had better be all about replenishing our draft pool. It's worse than you mention in my opinion: McDonagh: I've yet to see one person explain why he had to be included in the Gomez trade Fischer: 3 seasons since being drafted and still not signed: will be UFA in 6 years Price: Could be a huge steal at #5 or bust: jury's out Chipchura: 4 years from UFA and still bouncing between NHL and AHL Kostitsyn: jury's still out: not a bad pick, but in a very deep draft needs to become the first liner he could be Higgins: lost in a trade to acquire a guy we should have been paid to take off their hands Komisarek: one of few to fully develop, then lost for nothing as UFA Perezhogin: lost for nothing Hainsey: lost for nothing So really what do we have left from this past decades first round? Kostitsyn, Price, possibly Chpichura and Fischer, although both are behind where they should be; and I guess they got us Gomez. Not exactly much for a organization that prides itself on drafting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteenIsThaFuture Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 So how many picks do you think we could have gotten for Tanguay, Kovy, Saku, and Komisarek? I'm thinking at least two first-rounders and three lower-round picks minimum. And how many picks have we wasted on nonsense the past few years? 1st round pick for Tanguay Perezhogin (1st-round choice) gone Komisarek (1st-round choice) gone Higgins (1st-round choice) gone McDonagh (1st-round choice) gone What a mess we've made of our first-round drafting, selling the farm to acquire aging veterans for a year or two, then letting those vets walk with no compensation. The next few years had better be all about replenishing our draft pool. 1. Its not that simple. You don't just trade your core like Saku and Kovalev in the middle of a playoff run. Ownership (espeically knowing that Gillet was jumping ship) want money. That comes from playoff revenue, not a long-term rebuild plan. Also nobody was trading 1st rounders this year, because the draft class was so amazing. There was only one first rounder exchanged and it was like the 25th overall I believe. 2. Every team has blown 1st rounders, and every team has UFA's that walk. Do the Habs have mor of this then the average team, yes the last few years, but it hasn't been that out of the norm and/or catastrophic. 3. You describe Komisarek, Higgins and Tanguay as nonsense, care to elaborate? It's worse than you mention in my opinion: McDonagh: I've yet to see one person explain why he had to be included in the Gomez trade Fischer: 3 seasons since being drafted and still not signed: will be UFA in 6 years Price: Could be a huge steal at #5 or bust: jury's out Chipchura: 4 years from UFA and still bouncing between NHL and AHL Kostitsyn: jury's still out: not a bad pick, but in a very deep draft needs to become the first liner he could be Higgins: lost in a trade to acquire a guy we should have been paid to take off their hands Komisarek: one of few to fully develop, then lost for nothing as UFA Perezhogin: lost for nothing Hainsey: lost for nothing So really what do we have left from this past decades first round? Kostitsyn, Price, possibly Chpichura and Fischer, although both are behind where they should be; and I guess they got us Gomez. Not exactly much for a organization that prides itself on drafting. McDonaugh had a bad year in college and Higgins was probably considered scrap-heap considering his last year. I realize it was a salary dump, but Higgins had very low value, and Gomez didn't have completely negative value. Lets see if David goes back for a 4th year, then you can start to be worried, plenty of prospects go 3 years. Price, wasn't a fan at the time of the draft, still don't agree with the pick unless he becomes a top 3 goalie, even then I may still not agree with it. Chips was bad because his UFA clock was intitiated before it should've, but he still has time before hes a bust. On the UFA's, as I said above, especially with such a low UFA age in the current system, every team has free agents. Perez bolted for Russia although one could debate that was Carbo's fault. For an organazation that pride itself on drafting, the good drafting didn't really start until like the 05,06 time span, so we really have to reevaluate that around 2010-2012 to see how well they drafted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadiensgoalie12_mtl Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 So how many picks do you think we could have gotten for Tanguay, Kovy, Saku, and Komisarek? I'm thinking at least two first-rounders and three lower-round picks minimum. And how many picks have we wasted on nonsense the past few years? 1st round pick for Tanguay Perezhogin (1st-round choice) gone Komisarek (1st-round choice) gone Higgins (1st-round choice) gone McDonagh (1st-round choice) gone What a mess we've made of our first-round drafting, selling the farm to acquire aging veterans for a year or two, then letting those vets walk with no compensation. The next few years had better be all about replenishing our draft pool. First of all; Perezhogin is a great player, no doubt about that. He hated the coach and bolted to Russia, where he mostlikely will stay forever. How can that be blamed on Gainey? For Komisarek, it was evident that HE wanted to leave. We offered him the same contract and he said no. Too bad, so sad. It's part of the business. Higgins will be a great two-way player,just not in Montreal. He needed a change of scenery which is understandable. Gainey included McDonagh in the package because evidently he was not progressing like the Montreal Brass wanted him to. Do you actually Gainey makes these deals in a blink of an eye? No! I can gurantee he talks with the Assistant GM, counsellors and Mr. Timmins. We have also not been selling our farm. Everywhere I look, sites congratulate the Canadiens organizational depth, in general. Can Toronto pride in that? No; they sold their farm for the Roberts, Nolans, Belfours and Raycrofts of our generation. With all due respect to last year, like everyone thought, Gainey though the Canadiens were going through a slump. That is why he did not trade Kovalev, Tanguay, etc. He, like many others, thought we would have a chance at a cup. Look at 2 years ago. Stellar future goalie in Price, wonderful players by the Kostitsyn bros and Plekanec, great plays by O'Bryne, newly acquired players in Lang and Tanguay and eventually Schneider. Who can't get excited by this team? Everyone had to admit our team looked great on paper, but we didn't click. Too bad, new plan. So for everyone crapping on Gainey, please hold your breath. There is a reason he was not fired or let go. He wants to build a champion team; AKA he wants to win. Do you honestly think he has it in his head to ruin the Canadiens? Really come on. The way I see it, Cammarelli > Tanguay, Gomez>Koivu, Gionta> Kovalev, Spacek>Bouillon/Dandenault/Brisebois, Gill<Komisarek. Thats pretty darn good. So what about size? Chemistry is all that matters. See Gomez and Gionta's Stanley Cup rings. Enough with Gainey trashing because I would like to see you shooters in his place. My bet is that you wouldn't last a year, so please give the man respect. Do you see Gainey going to your work and saying how horrible your doing your job? No? Are people circling you in your office building gossiping and criticizing everything you do as work? No, so please give Gainey and everyone else for that matter respect. It will make these forums so much more enjoyable. GO HABS GO! IN BOB WE TRUST! (PS no offence to everyone) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmash Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 McDonaugh had a bad year in college and Higgins was probably considered scrap-heap considering his last year. I realize it was a salary dump, but Higgins had very low value, and Gomez didn't have completely negative value. Regardless of how Mcdonagh did, I still don't see you giving up on a guy based on one season: he was our top prospect before that. But that's beside the point: two of our first rounders were lost in that deal, which is our main point: we aren't using our first liners to effectively build a team. Chips was bad because his UFA clock was intitiated before it should've, but he still has time before hes a bust. What do you mean, the UFA in 4 years I meant he's 23, he'll be 27 soon enough. This is normal UFA age. In any case, so far he's been a bust considering he hasn't even gotten a permanent job on the fourth line. On the UFA's, as I said above, especially with such a low UFA age in the current system, every team has free agents. Perez bolted for Russia although one could debate that was Carbo's fault. For an organazation that pride itself on drafting, the good drafting didn't really start until like the 05,06 time span, so we really have to reevaluate that around 2010-2012 to see how well they drafted. I'm not sure about that, we were generally considered good drafters before Gainey took over. But it's not just the quality of drafting, it's a mixture of that and the org messing up our prospects in various ways. Even since 2005-2006ish timeframe we've drafted Fischer, Mcdonagh, Leblanc, and lost a pic for a player we lost for nothing after a season where we didn't win a playoff game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry-Launstein-Jr Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 I think this team will crack 90 points and could finish as high as 4th in the conference. This is what I have been saying all along - we were, talent-wise, a 4th-6th place in the conference team. I still feel that way, but at least we have improved ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmerpuck Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 'Jun 19 2009[/b], 02:48 PM' post='1503178'] ten players....twelve days... Tic Toc Tick Tock We have a new team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RicochetII Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 I just have to point out that in relation to the players we lost, you have to fault Gainey heavily on those. The biggest reason we lose those players is because of his policy of not negotiating during the season. From what I can tell, that policy has done nothing to help and everything to harm. Komisarek would likely still be here and likely making no more than $4M a season if we had signed him earlier this year. It was evident we wanted to keep him, so why not get it done and out of the way? At worst we end up signing a player here and there that ends up having a bad season and we regret the signing. It's easier to get rid of a bad player than it is to get a good one, especially for us. So maybe Plekanec would have his $3M contract without the need for arbitration, maybe we traded a $2.5M signed Higgins to NY instead of as an RFA, maybe we have Kovalev signed and no room for Gionta. All reasonable risks and very little difference in our situation, except for maybe having Komisarek instead of Gill. You get hundreds of days to convince a player to sign a contract. Hundreds of days to work out a reasonable contract. He intentionally chooses to use only 7 of them. *facepalm* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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