Weber Topic Split: Comparing Slapshots, Is Physics Just A Myth, etc.

[sach]

What if?

Scores tonight on PP against the Red Wings.

Basically who would we rather see on the roster. Dandenault or Weber?

Montreal has Markov, Komi, Hammer, O'Byrne, Gorges, and Bouillon basically set as the top 6. Montreal also has Brisebois and Dandenault. I assume Brisebois is press box most nights. Why not trade, waive, or buyout Dandenault. As far as I can tell their is no upside to Dandenault on the roster. However a young PP specialist (sort of like Streit) but with a shot as fast as Souray and the real potential that Weber will be top 3 within 3 seasons wouldn't it be worth the risk. If the experiment fails Weber can go to AHL without clearing waivers and Brisebois tries his luck on the PP. And Montreal gets rid of Dandenault whom has no overall benefit to the team, IMHO.

Leave Weber on the roster as 7th D. There are plenty of PP in the NHL and hopefully some situations when Montreal is leading by 3 or more goals when a rookie could get some shifts or when the other team is bottom of the barrel with no superstar to worry about (Toronto for example).

Weber is better defensively then most people assume. Weber is 20 years old, not an 18 year old kid. With lots and lots of ice time with Kitchener Rangers and a great plus/minus there he must be better then expected.

weber has an nhl shot but by no means is it souray caliber

[risteenhuis]

weber has an nhl shot but by no means is it souray caliber

They have speed testing. Weber shot is around 100mph. Not sure if the 100mph is from the prospect camp testing back in July or from junior. But I definitely heard 100mph as the speed.

[sach]

They have speed testing. Weber shot is around 100mph. Not sure if the 100mph is from the prospect camp testing back in July or from junior. But I definitely heard 100mph as the speed.

their is two kinds of a 100mph slap shot, and sourays is more of a bomb

[risteenhuis]

their is two kinds of a 100mph slap shot, and sourays is more of a bomb

Silly logic. I played in the nets. 90mph was faster and harder to stop then 80mph therefore 100mph is even harder to stop.

How Weber slids to the center of the ice with the puck makes his shot more dangerous then a D that justs stands in one place. Redden has this kind of movement before he blasts a shot. Weber always did this move with the Kitchener Rangers. Really hard to defend on the PP. Especially since Weber is a great passer and very good wrist shot. He does not always blast the shot.

Montreal is very lucky. Weber, Subban, Patches, and S.Kostitsyn can all blast the shots from the point and they are all young players.

[ChiLla]

their is two kinds of a 100mph slap shot, and sourays is more of a bomb

Would you mind to elaborate? You lost me there ...

[tony1234]

Would you mind to elaborate? You lost me there ...

Some players shots are fast....Souray's were heavy, the force the puck hits you is different.

[stanbe]

Some players shots are fast....Souray's were heavy, the force the puck hits you is different.

Explain! 100mph is 100mph...

[tmash]

Some players shots are fast....Souray's were heavy, the force the puck hits you is different.

Sorry but physics won't back this up. The only force acting positively on the puck is the players shot. Air resistance provides negative force. The mass of the puck and air resistance are the same in either case. If two shots get up to 100mph in the same net distance, they must have the same force behind them. At the point when the shot hits the sensor, a 100mph shot is a 100mph shot, they have the same force.

[tony1234]

Sorry but physics won't back this up. The only force acting positively on the puck is the players shot. Air resistance provides negative force. The mass of the puck and air resistance are the same in either case. If two shots get up to 100mph in the same net distance, they must have the same force behind them. At the point when the shot hits the sensor, a 100mph shot is a 100mph shot, they have the same force.

Physics can go back to school where it belongs.

Ask any goalie and they will tell you. There are shots that are fast, but there are others that go the same speed, but they just seem to go through you.

That is why they call them heavy.

[JoeC_mtl]

Physics can go back to school where it belongs.

Ask any goalie and they will tell you. There are shots that are fast, but there are others that go the same speed, but they just seem to go through you.

That is why they call them heavy.

Shots that go through the goalies that you call "heavy" are just the goalie not making the save, there is not difference between 2 100mph shots, its not possible.

[74Kos-yn-31Price]

Physics can go back to school where it belongs.

Ask any goalie and they will tell you. There are shots that are fast, but there are others that go the same speed, but they just seem to go through you.

That is why they call them heavy.

so if its a goal its "heavy", but if you save it it's not a "bomb" or "heavy"...

i highly doubt physics just decided to let pucks do what they want

[Hemsky83_09]

Physics can go back to school where it belongs.

Ask any goalie and they will tell you. There are shots that are fast, but there are others that go the same speed, but they just seem to go through you.

That is why they call them heavy.

Move over Einstien and Newton there is a new kid on the block(NKOTB)

ROFLMAO

[dan_mtl]

Move over Einstien and Newton there is a new kid on the block(NKOTB)

ROFLMAO

thats just too funny haha

[soccerkid1on1]

Physics can go back to school where it belongs.

Ask any goalie and they will tell you. There are shots that are fast, but there are others that go the same speed, but they just seem to go through you.

That is why they call them heavy.

Come on Miltie.... I know you as someone who's arguing reasonably, but that's complete crap. 100 mph is 100 mph. Period. The only reason that would back up your opinion logically is a harder or a softer puck.

[ChiLla]

Physics can go back to school where it belongs.

Ask any goalie and they will tell you. There are shots that are fast, but there are others that go the same speed, but they just seem to go through you.

That is why they call them heavy.

You can describe shots however you want to describe them, but it doesn't change the fact that a puck flying at 100mph towards a goalie remains a puck flying at 100mph.

What you're talking about is subjective perception, which could theoretically be influenced by the puck's actual position in mid-air in the very moment when hitting the goalie or any rotational movement involved. Everything else is just force in a given space, which is quantifiable in mph or km/h if you prefer.

Remember the shooting contest over the All-Star weekend? What would be the point of having this competition if the speed of a shot was no adequate indicator of a player's shot power? Kinda pointless.

[DA_Champion]

Is 100mph the total speed or just the forward speed?

And do pucks have spin?

[ChiLla]

Is 100mph the total speed or just the forward speed?

And do pucks have spin?

Haha ... that's stuff for an MA thesis in physics

"Hockey Pucks - Speed, velocity, acceleration, inertia vectors, rotational movement, and the subjective impact on solid matter in the context of professional hockey"

[tony1234]

Argue all you want folks, it's true.

Physics is very subjective, according to physics bumblebees should not be able to fly- yet I have never seen one taking a bus.

Carry on with your own amusement.

[animerules1x3]

Argue all you want folks, it's true.

Physics is very subjective, according to physics bumblebees should not be able to fly- yet I have never seen one taking a bus.

Carry on with your own amusement.

Things that are true are actually confirmed by facts.

The facts are that Weber's shots were tested and it was found out that they were clocking at more than 100mph, just like Souray's. So, objectively, they were as hard.

But you, can continue to argue.

[tony1234]

Things that are true are actually confirmed by facts.

The facts are that Weber's shots were tested and it was found out that they were clocking at more than 100mph, just like Souray's. So, objectively, they were as hard.

But you, can continue to argue.

Again I will point you toward the humble bumblebee, physics tells us it can't fly, yet the FACTS say it can !!!

Physics tells us many things, and as a tool is generally sound, but there are things about the way things work in the world we just don't understand and can't explain with all the wonders of modern science.

I have no idea how hard Weber's shot is, and it could very well be as hard as Souray's. That is not my arguement here.

I am just telling you goalies will beg to differ when it comes to 100mph shots are 100mph shots.

I have read many goalies talk, and they say some guys shot just feel like they are going to go through them, and some guys shots, although just as fast, don't have that feel. Talk about physics all you want, the goalies who face these shot on a daily basis say different.

All this aside, this kid has a great shot, and I hope to see it alot in the future.

[SteenIsThaFuture]

Again I will point you toward the humble bumblebee, physics tells us it can't fly, yet the FACTS say it can !!!

Physics tells us many things, and as a tool is generally sound, but there are things about the way things work in the world we just don't understand and can't explain with all the wonders of modern science.

I have no idea how hard Weber's shot is, and it could very well be as hard as Souray's. That is not my arguement here.

I am just telling you goalies will beg to differ when it comes to 100mph shots are 100mph shots.

I have read many goalies talk, and they say some guys shot just feel like they are going to go through them, and some guys shots, although just as fast, don't have that feel. Talk about physics all you want, the goalies who face these shot on a daily basis say different.

All this aside, this kid has a great shot, and I hope to see it alot in the future.

This philosophy applies to baseball also.

I guy can have a 95 MPH fastball and will be seen an blazing, and another guy will have a 95 MPH fastball and hitters will say its nowehere as fast.

The key is acceleration, Im curious how many of these radars that record the shots take them right after contact of the stick.

To a goalie a puck that starts at 95 and ends up being 100 MPH looks a heck of a lot different and is much more intimidating than a 87-88 thats ends up being 100.

[tmash]

Physics can go back to school where it belongs.

Ask any goalie and they will tell you. There are shots that are fast, but there are others that go the same speed, but they just seem to go through you.

That is why they call them heavy.

Physics is all around us, not just on school papers. Goalies may 'think' a shot has more force, but it doesn't. The only possibilities are:

a.) goalies are human: they have no way to know the actual force a puck is hitting them at

b.) things like puck spin, rotation, angle, etc., which could vary, may make the shot seem different to a goaltender, but the force is the same.

Argue all you want folks, it's true.

Physics is very subjective, according to physics bumblebees should not be able to fly- yet I have never seen one taking a bus.

Carry on with your own amusement.

That's an old myth: http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/564080

Modern physics proves why the bumblebee can fly. But it is complicated physics. The force of a puck is relatively simple. When I go up in an airplane I'm going to trust the physicists and engineers who designed it, not 'physics is very subjective'/

The key is acceleration, Im curious how many of these radars that record the shots take them right after contact of the stick.

To a goalie a puck that starts at 95 and ends up being 100 MPH looks a heck of a lot different and is much more intimidating than a 87-88 thats ends up being 100.

This is true I believe, and something that's always confused me. For example, if you get hit by a car going 100km/h, does it matter if that car has been travelling at that speed for an hour, or if the car is in the middle of accelerating up to 120km/h? In any case, the shots are taken the same distance from the net, the puck starts at 0mph in either case, and ends at 100mph in both cases. Although you can't say precisely without timing the shot, the acceleration must be very similar in both cases. If there was a big difference in acceleration, there is just no way both would end up with the same speed.

[SteenIsThaFuture]

Well take into account the fact that a puck will usually travel around the same acceleration rate no matter who shoots it, for exampls sake well use 40 MPH/second since I dont know the strandard rate.

So if a puck the second after contact from shooter A is travelling at 80 MPH for 0.5 seconds it will be 100 MPH when it reaches the net.

for shooter B after contact it starts at 85 MPH after 0.375 seconds it will be 100 MPH.

It may not seem that big a difference, but anyone who watches baseball here knows the difference between a 90 and 93 MPH fastball.

[sach]

Some players shots are fast....Souray's were heavy, the force the puck hits you is different.

thank you, at least someone knows

[Johnny_rudeboy]

I think we are going in circles if we discussing the physics of Weber's shot.

There is more to Weber than his shot. He moves the puck well out of the defensive zone.