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Nhl Mulls Idea Of A Second Team In Toronto


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http://www.sportsnet.ca/thewire/hockey/200...oats_notion_of/

NHL governors are talking informally about placing a second hockey team in Toronto alongside the Maple Leafs, The Globe and Mail has learned.

“Why shouldn't we put another team in the best and biggest market in the world?” one of several NHL governors who spoke with The Globe anonymously said of the Greater Toronto Area.

According to this governor, one idea floated is for prospective owner Jim Balsillie to be rewarded with an expansion team in Toronto after helping to restore financial ballast to the Nashville Predators.

“I've heard this exact scenario,” a second governor said.

Calgary Flames co-owner Harley Hotchkiss, a former chairman of the NHL board of governors, is also aware of the Balsillie movement.

“I've heard bits and pieces of this scenario, although not in that kind of detail,” he said. “Our priority is to have the existing franchises solid.”

“[it is] an interesting scenario,” Mr. Hotchkiss added, “ but I can only speak generally.”

Richard Peddie, president of Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment, said the organization would not automatically reject the idea of a second team in Toronto.

“When and if the league brings expansion to the table, we'll listen and decide what is best [for hockey],” he said.

As to the potential impact on the Maple Leafs, the first governor dismissively waved his hand. “The Maple Leafs would not be hurt one bit. In fact, it would help them. They could make all kinds of money renting the Air Canada Centre to the other team.”

Richard Rodier, a Toronto lawyer who acts as spokesman for Mr. Balsillie on hockey matters, declined to comment. Bill Daly, the deputy commissioner of the NHL, did not respond to a request for comment.

Two more NHL governors said the league should put a second team in Toronto, although one of them said it should be by relocating an existing franchise rather than expanding.

“I don't think it can be an expansion team,” a governor said. “We can't expand because we would be the laughingstock of professional sports.

“We've got too many troubled franchises. We've got to look at relocating a couple of them. These franchises were troubled long before the economic downturn and next year is going to be worse on them.”

Mr. Balsillie, the co-CEO of Research in Motion Ltd., angered league executives by attempting to buy the Nashville Predators with the intent of moving the franchise to Hamilton.

The league will never allow Mr. Balsillie to put a team in Hamilton for two reasons, according to one governor. One is that the city would be a tough sell for U.S.-based teams, and the other, more significant reason, is the belief it would ruin the Buffalo Sabres.

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http://www.sportsnet.ca/thewire/hockey/200...oats_notion_of/

NHL governors are talking informally about placing a second hockey team in Toronto alongside the Maple Leafs, The Globe and Mail has learned.

"Why shouldn't we put another team in the best and biggest market in the world?" one of several NHL governors who spoke with The Globe anonymously said of the Greater Toronto Area.

According to this governor, one idea floated is for prospective owner Jim Balsillie to be rewarded with an expansion team in Toronto after helping to restore financial ballast to the Nashville Predators.

"I've heard this exact scenario," a second governor said.

Calgary Flames co-owner Harley Hotchkiss, a former chairman of the NHL board of governors, is also aware of the Balsillie movement.

"I've heard bits and pieces of this scenario, although not in that kind of detail," he said. "Our priority is to have the existing franchises solid."

"[it is] an interesting scenario," Mr. Hotchkiss added, " but I can only speak generally."

Richard Peddie, president of Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment, said the organization would not automatically reject the idea of a second team in Toronto.

"When and if the league brings expansion to the table, we'll listen and decide what is best [for hockey]," he said.

As to the potential impact on the Maple Leafs, the first governor dismissively waved his hand. "The Maple Leafs would not be hurt one bit. In fact, it would help them. They could make all kinds of money renting the Air Canada Centre to the other team."

Richard Rodier, a Toronto lawyer who acts as spokesman for Mr. Balsillie on hockey matters, declined to comment. Bill Daly, the deputy commissioner of the NHL, did not respond to a request for comment.

Two more NHL governors said the league should put a second team in Toronto, although one of them said it should be by relocating an existing franchise rather than expanding.

"I don't think it can be an expansion team," a governor said. "We can't expand because we would be the laughingstock of professional sports.

"We've got too many troubled franchises. We've got to look at relocating a couple of them. These franchises were troubled long before the economic downturn and next year is going to be worse on them."

Mr. Balsillie, the co-CEO of Research in Motion Ltd., angered league executives by attempting to buy the Nashville Predators with the intent of moving the franchise to Hamilton.

The league will never allow Mr. Balsillie to put a team in Hamilton for two reasons, according to one governor. One is that the city would be a tough sell for U.S.-based teams, and the other, more significant reason, is the belief it would ruin the Buffalo Sabres.

i hate those two reasons the most.

1. to bad if its a tough sell for us based teams. if a team was in hamilton it would have no problem selling out games. you would have people from every surrounding city that would go to it, because it would cheaper then seeing a toronto game.

2. IMO i dont think it would ruin buffalo. every team will always have fans that will always come out to its games. if anything i think it might be good, get another rivialry going.

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i hate those two reasons the most.

1. to bad if its a tough sell for us based teams. if a team was in hamilton it would have no problem selling out games. you would have people from every surrounding city that would go to it, because it would cheaper then seeing a toronto game.

2. IMO i dont think it would ruin buffalo. every team will always have fans that will always come out to its games. if anything i think it might be good, get another rivialry going.

I agree, 77. I was at the Buffalo home opener (against the Habs) and the place was packed (18,200 or so) and it was 85% Sabre fans, supportive, knowledgeable, well-behaved, and 15% Hab fans. Most all the Sabre fans seemed to be Americans, but I just don't know that. I think the team has plenty of support without the Hamilton/Niagara corridor.

American cities / fans wouldn't be worried about Canadian teams in their expansion seeking plans.

The last place a new Canadian NHL team should go is Toronto. And wouldn't MLS have something to say? Do they get a big payment?

The whole idea sounds wonky to me. I mean, just imagine the complex that Toronto sports fans would acquire then, if they had not one but two loser NHL hockey teams in town?

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n37526399_34305295_8233.jpg

hahaha omg greek you kill me with your pictures. just so random!

and to add to this, toronot does not need another team. atleast if they are thinking about it, they should place one some where else in canada! pretty much any place you put a team in canada it would sell out.

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i hate those two reasons the most.

1. to bad if its a tough sell for us based teams. if a team was in hamilton it would have no problem selling out games. you would have people from every surrounding city that would go to it, because it would cheaper then seeing a toronto game.

that's not what they mean... Hamilton would do fine at home, the problem is they wouldn't be a draw across the league in US cities and therefore would hurt all those teams' revenues... that's what people don't think about when they discuss re-locating teams to Canada, there's little doubt they'll do well in their home and other Canadian cities, it's when the teams are on the road in the US that's the problem...

2. IMO i dont think it would ruin buffalo. every team will always have fans that will always come out to its games. if anything i think it might be good, get another rivialry going.
the Sabres were on the verge of folding or relocating at the start of the decade thanks to the Rigas debacle, their financial situation has only been stabilized for just over 5 years thanks to Tom Golisano... they won't put a team in Hamilton for no other reason than they owe Golisano big-time for saving the Sabres...

This is the dumbest thing ive ever read in my entire life and ive read a lot of stupid things over the years.

They could have 25 teams in that area and none of them would be winners.

since when has winning had anything to do with geographic location?...

like it or not, there's enough money in the Toronto/southern Ontario hockey market to support more than one team (they already partially support the Sabres) and it's an easier sell in the US than any other Canadian city so it makes sense business-wise... if people want more teams in Canada, they should consider another one in Toronto as a possibility...

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Winning is everything, guess why they want to relocate some of the us teams? Because they are losing teams which attracts no crowd.

The only reason theres people in Toronto it's because 40 years ago they were a winning team and to this day, they still hold to that thought.

Anyway at the moment with the canadian dollar doing so ***** (thanks to the usa) it's a stupid idea.

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that's not what they mean... Hamilton would do fine at home, the problem is they wouldn't be a draw across the league in US cities and therefore would hurt all those teams' revenues... that's what people don't think about when they discuss re-locating teams to Canada, there's little doubt they'll do well in their home and other Canadian cities, it's when the teams are on the road in the US that's the problem...

is there that many diehard nashville or atlanta fans that travel to see their teams? i rarely meet someone and they say

"im a preds fan" "im a thrashers fan"

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is there that many diehard nashville or atlanta fans that travel to see their teams? i rarely meet someone and they say

"im a preds fan" "im a thrashers fan"

not sure what you comment means in relation to what I wrote...

if I wasn't clear, a Hamilton team would undoubtedly draw in Hamilton, and in other Canadian cities when they are the road team... but how do teams in the US get their fans to attend games when Hamilton is the visiting team? almost none of them will have ever heard of Hamilton... it's not like Montreal and Toronto's situations with guaranteed sell-outs every night, these teams have to sell the event to their fans...

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not sure what you comment means in relation to what I wrote...

if I wasn't clear, a Hamilton team would undoubtedly draw in Hamilton, and in other Canadian cities when they are the road team... but how do teams in the US get their fans to attend games when Hamilton is the visiting team? almost none of them will have ever heard of Hamilton... it's not like Montreal and Toronto's situations with guaranteed sell-outs every night, these teams have to sell the event to their fans...

If these teams can't get their own fans to attend their own games then that's their problem for having a terrible team.

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not sure what you comment means in relation to what I wrote...

if I wasn't clear, a Hamilton team would undoubtedly draw in Hamilton, and in other Canadian cities when they are the road team... but how do teams in the US get their fans to attend games when Hamilton is the visiting team? almost none of them will have ever heard of Hamilton... it's not like Montreal and Toronto's situations with guaranteed sell-outs every night, these teams have to sell the event to their fans...

some teams in the US can't even draw in fans from their own city, like nashville, atlanta. unless they people in the US know hockey, they will be able to figure where hamilton is.i understand what your saying, but most the the US doesnt like hockey, with the exceptions of some states, but the majority dont.

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not sure what you comment means in relation to what I wrote...

if I wasn't clear, a Hamilton team would undoubtedly draw in Hamilton, and in other Canadian cities when they are the road team... but how do teams in the US get their fans to attend games when Hamilton is the visiting team? almost none of them will have ever heard of Hamilton... it's not like Montreal and Toronto's situations with guaranteed sell-outs every night, these teams have to sell the event to their fans...

Possible solution .... Have Hamilton only play Canadian-based teams. :D
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not sure what you comment means in relation to what I wrote...

if I wasn't clear, a Hamilton team would undoubtedly draw in Hamilton, and in other Canadian cities when they are the road team... but how do teams in the US get their fans to attend games when Hamilton is the visiting team? almost none of them will have ever heard of Hamilton... it's not like Montreal and Toronto's situations with guaranteed sell-outs every night, these teams have to sell the event to their fans...

I'm not sure i would agree here Wayne with the part i have bolded. I dont have any attendance figures to back me up but i would suspect that total attendance in a home and home series with lets say Nashville vs Hamilton, would most likely ( mainly because of numbers in Hamilton) be stronger then say,,, Nashville vs L.A. I think there's a better chance of Nashville getting some money via revenue sharing from Hamilton then most of those other US teams.

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Winnipeg, Hamilton, Windsor, London, Victoria, Halifax, etc.... Anywhere BUT Toronto!

I bet the Laff fans don't like it either. Unless they would use it to bandwagon jump when the Marple Laffs are sucking... (which is practically every game) The NHL is just becoming so greedy, we don't need another team in the NHL.. if anything, move a team.. don't just create more problems!

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As far as a Hamilton team being a tough sell for Americans. I'm sure most Americans still can't tell you where Edmonton or Calgary are. Heck, they would have a hard time finding Columbus, Raleigh, or Uniondale (the last one is a hamlet) on a map. why not Call the team the Ontario somethings...

If NY area can support 3 teams, LA support 2 (Anaheim is less than 50 miles from LA), then southern Ontario can support 2.

Buffalo if they can't find fans on their side of the border, too bad so sad.

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This is the dumbest thing ive ever read in my entire life and ive read a lot of stupid things over the years.

They could have 25 teams in that area and none of them would be winners.

Win lose or draw, its really not the point. We bash Toronto a lot, but to be fair, they have loyal fans & their fan base is huge. Depending upon which stat you take, GTA is either 5.1 or 5.5 million people. Calgary has a very viable team with a fan base of just over a million. Edmonton's is just under.

There's no real reason to think Toronto's area couldnt support 2 hockey teams.

If I was a leaf's fan I wouldnt like it (just like I would not like a second team in montreal) because it detracts from MY team - but hey, thats their problem.

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This is all about revenue sharing.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...obeSportsHockey

- (Above link)Last season, the Canadian teams in the NHL contributed 1/3 of the profits.

- (Picture below)At the end of the season, the Canadian teams distributed a total of $41-million dollars to the rest of the league.

cover188.jpg

The Numbers

Toronto: $12-million

Montreal: $11.5-million

Vancouver: $10-million

Edmonton, Calgary, Ottawa: $7.8-million

- Now the first 3 are the most profitable.

- NHL Governors thoughts - "What if we could sqeeze out another $10-million from a Canadian franchise that is placed in Toronto..."

- NHL Governors(the specific few) just want more money to make it easier for themselves to not go sky-high.

*These guys could care less about the popularity of the sport, especially the Governors who are probably associated with the teams who can't even afford salary cap minimum, or who can't sell out their building.*

***They only care about getting their money back.***

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not sure what you comment means in relation to what I wrote...

if I wasn't clear, a Hamilton team would undoubtedly draw in Hamilton, and in other Canadian cities when they are the road team... but how do teams in the US get their fans to attend games when Hamilton is the visiting team? almost none of them will have ever heard of Hamilton... it's not like Montreal and Toronto's situations with guaranteed sell-outs every night, these teams have to sell the event to their fans...

interesting point, but I'm not so sure how it holds up. The truth is that I'm sure plenty of Americans also haven't heard of Vancouver, Ottawa, Edmonton, and Calgary (and maybe even Montreal). Hockey fans know of these cities basically because we placed teams there.

And I certainly agree Hamilton wouldn't be a "big" draw, but I don't know that it would be any worse than a lot of other teams. I mean there are some games fans go to for the opposing team, but there's already plenty of games where they are just going for the home team anyways, I'm not sure Hamilton would make things any worse. When people go to a team for the road team it's because of:

- regional rivalary (Toronto can price Montreal and Ottawa games)

- fans from other teams in your building

- the players (Pittsburgh)

- good team (Detroit)

- storied franchise (any original six, maybe Edmonton, etc.)

In all five cases I don't see any difference between moving a team to Toronto or Hamilton. I just don't think people are attracted or not attracted to the game based on if they've heard of the city.

However, I do think overall another Toronto team makes the most sense. If the team agrees to rent out ACC, the Leafs could come out ahead and probably won't object. While a team in Hamilton (

or the old K-W discussions) would easily work, they would count on drawing a lot of people out of Toronto anyways (who can't get Leafs tickets), so at least this way you are right there. Leafs tickets are the most expensive in the league and still impossible to get. Just look at the population of the GTA, and this doesn't even include cities like K-W and London. Look at the population of places like Ottawa and Edmonton: Toronto could easily support 2 teams, easily. You could have 2 Toronto teams and a Hamilton team and all would be healthy: the size of the population combined with the popularity of hockey is something that exists in no other market.

That said, I'd prefer the team be in another Southern Ontario city, but I can see why the NHL would prefer Toronto.

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interesting point, but I'm not so sure how it holds up. The truth is that I'm sure plenty of Americans also haven't heard of Vancouver, Ottawa, Edmonton, and Calgary (and maybe even Montreal). Hockey fans know of these cities basically because we placed teams there.

And I certainly agree Hamilton wouldn't be a "big" draw, but I don't know that it would be any worse than a lot of other teams. I mean there are some games fans go to for the opposing team, but there's already plenty of games where they are just going for the home team anyways, I'm not sure Hamilton would make things any worse.

However, I do think overall another Toronto team makes the most sense. If the team agrees to rent out ACC, the Leafs could come out ahead and probably won't object. While a team in Hamilton (or the old K-W discussions) would easily work, they would count on drawing a lot of people out of Toronto anyways (who can't get Leafs tickets), so at least this way you are right there. Leafs tickets are the most expensive in the league and still impossible to get. Just look at the population of the GTA, and this doesn't even include cities like K-W and London. Look at the population of places like Ottawa and Edmonton: Toronto could easily support 2 teams, easily. You could have 2 Toronto teams and a Hamilton team and all would be healthy: the size of the population combined with the popularity of hockey is something that exists in no other market.

That said, I'd prefer the team be in another Southern Ontario city, but I can see why the NHL would prefer Toronto.

exactly... thats pretty much what i was trying to say but you just worded it like 100X better.

i hope they bring one to southern ontario...the leafs will always have the die hards that will pay the money to see them, but for other people who just want to go watch a NHL game it would make it a lot easier...then i would by seasons tickets :P

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interesting point, but I'm not so sure how it holds up. The truth is that I'm sure plenty of Americans also haven't heard of Vancouver, Ottawa, Edmonton, and Calgary (and maybe even Montreal). Hockey fans know of these cities basically because we placed teams there.

And I certainly agree Hamilton wouldn't be a "big" draw, but I don't know that it would be any worse than a lot of other teams. I mean there are some games fans go to for the opposing team, but there's already plenty of games where they are just going for the home team anyways, I'm not sure Hamilton would make things any worse.

However, I do think overall another Toronto team makes the most sense. If the team agrees to rent out ACC, the Leafs could come out ahead and probably won't object. While a team in Hamilton (or the old K-W discussions) would easily work, they would count on drawing a lot of people out of Toronto anyways (who can't get Leafs tickets), so at least this way you are right there. Leafs tickets are the most expensive in the league and still impossible to get. Just look at the population of the GTA, and this doesn't even include cities like K-W and London. Look at the population of places like Ottawa and Edmonton: Toronto could easily support 2 teams, easily. You could have 2 Toronto teams and a Hamilton team and all would be healthy: the size of the population combined with the popularity of hockey is something that exists in no other market.

That said, I'd prefer the team be in another Southern Ontario city, but I can see why the NHL would prefer Toronto.

Yeah I'd like to see 2 teams in TO so I could get double the pleasure in seeing them extend the 40 year thing...you could even add 2 years for every year because it's Toronto based...so next year would be 42 then 44 then 46 ................then 100
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