Report: Kovalchuk To Montreal Or Toronto?

[Hoyle00cdn]

why is this thread still surfacing. Waddell denied all rumours about Kovalchuk being up for trade.

[Innis_Mor]

why is this thread still surfacing. Waddell denied all rumours about Kovalchuk being up for trade.

I dunno. Maybe 'cause Atlanta is in Montreal tonight. Reminds people about it, I guess.

[GreekHockeyCoach]

why is this thread still surfacing. Waddell denied all rumours about Kovalchuk being up for trade.

Actually I agreed with you and closed the thread. But then I got to thinking, how many GM's come out and publicly say that they're going to trade their star player. Therefore, I re-opened it. Given his recent slump and demotion, you never know. Let's keep this thread open a little longer.

[gracie12]

TCarolina: Eric Staal, Cam Ward (arguably)

Anaheim: Teemu Selanne, Scott Niedermayer, Chris Pronger, Jean-Sebastien Giguere

Detroit: Pavel Datsyuk, Henrik Zetterberg, Nicklas Lidstrom

Beyond Price who did not do well during the playoffs, we cannot hope to match the above teams save maybe Carolina although certainly not with how we have been playing. Furthermore Kovalchuk is 25, thus he is still considered youth. If a player like him is available you make an offer in a heartbeat unless your team is solid and ours is definitely not.

interesting break down, but I would argue we could compete with those names.

You've already mentioned Price.

Three times by three separate commentators this year I have heard Markov called "the Lidstrom of the east" - he can do it all: score, play defense, move big bodies - he's a top 5 defenseman in the league.

Now, anaheim had Pronger AND neidermayer - but it we were to add a top quality #4 dman, Id argue we might have the best 2 pairings in the league.

Selanne was an elite (top 5) player in his days in winnipeg and while he has had a resurgence in anaheim, his numbers have been close to those of Kovalev. Frankly its a toss up on which Id rather have in the playoffs. I would throw Koivu and Tanguay into that same category, so in essence we have MORE top quality players than Anaheim did.

I guess my point is that I rank Kovalchuk just slightly below Crosby Malkin & Ovechkin. I rank guys like Selanne, Koivu, Kovalev, Tanguay etc another step down from there.

Would I love to have Kovalchuk? Hell yeah. Do I think its possible right now? Yes...but at what cost? I think we would lower our overall team depth to get that one guy (a) because it will cost a lot and b ) because we would need to 'dump' useful players to make room for his cap hit). So while I think it may be doable, I think i would pass...which sounds strange because who passes on a top tier talent - but I think right now we're in too good a position to be blowing up the team.

Actually I agreed with you and closed the thread. But then I got to thinking, how many GM's come out and publicly say that they're going to trade their star player. Therefore, I re-opened it. Given his recent slump and demotion, you never know. Let's keep this thread open a little longer.

I agree. Its rare that GMs come out and say they are shopping a player because what happens if the deal falls through? "oh, they dont want me here" is what the player thinks.

I dont think you can ever take a GMs word on something like this. If they were to say "i havent spoken with _____ about this player" then Id believe it, but to say they arent going to trade someone...id take it with a grain of salt.

[SteenIsThaFuture]

Then to be frank, you dislike winning because players like Kovalchuk are game deciding players. Look at the last three Stanley Cup winners...

Carolina: Eric Staal, Cam Ward (arguably)

Anaheim: Teemu Selanne, Scott Niedermayer, Chris Pronger, Jean-Sebastien Giguere

Detroit: Pavel Datsyuk, Henrik Zetterberg, Nicklas Lidstrom

Beyond Price who did not do well during the playoffs, we cannot hope to match the above teams save maybe Carolina although certainly not with how we have been playing. Furthermore Kovalchuk is 25, thus he is still considered youth. If a player like him is available you make an offer in a heartbeat unless your team is solid and ours is definitely not.

We have Price and Markov but thats besides the point, if you have an excess of assets I don't mind making minor deadlin deals, but if you need a star player to contend you aren't a good team in the first place (how NYI got Ryan Smyth) which we are.

[leafs_rock_go_mccabe]

To :

Ilya Kovalchuk ($6.400) UFA in 2010-2011.

3rd round draft choice (2009).

2nd round draft choice (2010).

To :

Alexei Kovalev ($4.500) - UFA in 2009-2010.

Mathieu Dandenault ($1.725) - UFA in 2009-2010.

Matt D'Agostini ($0.500) - RFA in 2009-2010.

Yannick Weber ($0.875) - RFA in 2011-2012.

1st round draft choice (2009).

4th round draft choice (2010).

POST TRADE ROSTER:

C. Higgins - S. Koivu - I. Kovalchuk

G. Latendresse - R. Lang - A. Kostitsyn

S. Kostitsyn - T. Plekanec - T. Kostopoulos

K. Chipchura - S. Begin - M. Lapierre

A. Markov - M. Komisarek

R. Hamrlik - J. Gorges

F. Bouillon - P. Brisebois

(R. O'Byrne, G. Laraque, M. Glumac) - Additional/press-box.

C. Price

J. Halak

Bam!

[GreekHockeyCoach]

To :

Ilya Kovalchuk ($6.400) UFA in 2010-2011.

3rd round draft choice (2009).

2nd round draft choice (2010).

To :

Alexei Kovalev ($4.500) - UFA in 2009-2010.

Mathieu Dandenault ($1.725) - UFA in 2009-2010.

Matt D'Agostini ($0.500) - RFA in 2009-2010.

Yannick Weber ($0.875) - RFA in 2011-2012.

1st round draft choice (2009).

4th round draft choice (2010).

POST TRADE ROSTER:

C. Higgins - S. Koivu - I. Kovalchuk

G. Latendresse - R. Lang - A. Kostitsyn

S. Kostitsyn - T. Plekanec - T. Kostopoulos

K. Chipchura - S. Begin - M. Lapierre

A. Markov - M. Komisarek

R. Hamrlik - J. Gorges

F. Bouillon - P. Brisebois

(R. O'Byrne, G. Laraque, M. Glumac) - Additional/press-box.

C. Price

J. Halak

Bam!

I think Webber ruins that deal for me. Where's Tanguay? Now if you replace Dags and Weber with Higgins, I'd do this deal

[SteenIsThaFuture]

Not to mention that neither Dandy nor Kovalev are viable trade bait especially for a team currently on pace to win 33 games.

I would imagine a 1st round pick of this year (which I can't see Gainey going 2 straight years without a 1st rounder) but anyways, maybe a 2nd or 3rd round in 2010, Pacioretty would be a good piece and one of our lesser d-man propsects such as Weber or Subban or replace Max Pac with McDonuagh and D'Agostini with another minor prospect thrown in.

[leafs_rock_go_mccabe]

I think Webber ruins that deal for me. Where's Tanguay? Now if you replace Dags and Weber with Higgins, I'd do this deal

I am trying to save the fans the FUTURE stress/anger when they don't like D'Agostini and Weber in 2011 because they are not producing enough points for twenty-something year olds.

[GreekHockeyCoach]

I am trying to save the fans the FUTURE stress/anger when they don't like D'Agostini and Weber in 2011 because they are not producing enough points for twenty-something year olds.

Good thinking, I retract my post, make the deal

[Hoyle00cdn]

To :

Ilya Kovalchuk ($6.400) UFA in 2010-2011.

3rd round draft choice (2009).

2nd round draft choice (2010).

To :

Alexei Kovalev ($4.500) - UFA in 2009-2010.

Mathieu Dandenault ($1.725) - UFA in 2009-2010.

Matt D'Agostini ($0.500) - RFA in 2009-2010.

Yannick Weber ($0.875) - RFA in 2011-2012.

1st round draft choice (2009).

4th round draft choice (2010).

POST TRADE ROSTER:

C. Higgins - S. Koivu - I. Kovalchuk

G. Latendresse - R. Lang - A. Kostitsyn

S. Kostitsyn - T. Plekanec - T. Kostopoulos

K. Chipchura - S. Begin - M. Lapierre

A. Markov - M. Komisarek

R. Hamrlik - J. Gorges

F. Bouillon - P. Brisebois

(R. O'Byrne, G. Laraque, M. Glumac) - Additional/press-box.

C. Price

J. Halak

Bam!

Waddell won't trade Kovalchuk for two UFA veterans, and two AHL regulars.

[Hoyle00cdn]

If anyone here is serious about Kovalchuk THIS is around the ballpark of what it would cost.

Kovalchuk

FOR

Higgins

Lapierre

Gorges

S.Kostitsyn

1st rounder

As soon as you guys start reducing prospects from that calibur you're not long speaking realistic trades, but fantasy trades.

[SteenIsThaFuture]

If anyone here is serious about Kovalchuk THIS is around the ballpark of what it would cost.

Kovalchuk

FOR

Higgins

Lapierre

Gorges

S.Kostitsyn

1st rounder

As soon as you guys start reducing prospects from that calibur you're not long speaking realistic trades, but fantasy trades.

In my trade though I'm aware of the fact that you need to trade top of the line prospects whicb is why I mention Max Pac and McDonaugh although once again I am completely against trading young players.

To be honest I don't think that gets it done, Higgins is gonna hav a big pay raise so you would hav to couple that with like Pacioretty or whatever instead of a nobody like Lapierre.

Andrei Kostitsyn would be a prime piece in a deal.

[flames4eva]

In my trade though I'm aware of the fact that you need to trade top of the line prospects whicb is why I mention Max Pac and McDonaugh although once again I am completely against trading young players.

To be honest I don't think that gets it done, Higgins is gonna hav a big pay raise so you would hav to couple that with like Pacioretty or whatever instead of a nobody like Lapierre.

Andrei Kostitsyn would be a prime piece in a deal.

I don't see why Higgins would deserve a big pay raise at this point.

[SteenIsThaFuture]

I don't see why Higgins would deserve a big pay raise at this point.

By big I don't mean 5 mil, but when he proves that he can get to that 25 goal rang with consistency and with his best years coming right now, he is going to go into the 3's without a doubt and I doubt teams like to take on young players just to give them a salary boost right after.

[leafs_rock_go_mccabe]

Waddell won't trade Kovalchuk for two UFA veterans, and two AHL regulars.

How is Waddell's last trade working out for him?

Eric Christensen? 1 goal, 7 assists, -7.

Colby Armstrong? 5 goals, 5 assists, even.

Angelo Esposito? A future A.H.L. regular?

Hossa, meanwhile, has 14 goals and 15 assists; and is +9 with an actual team!

Waddell made a dumb trade and got garbage from Pittsburgh. Who's to say he won't take my deal, too? Which, in my opinion, offers the same degree of value.

[SteenIsThaFuture]

How is Waddell's last trade working out for him?

Eric Christensen? 1 goal, 7 assists, -7.

Colby Armstrong? 5 goals, 5 assists, even.

Angelo Esposito? A future A.H.L. regular?

Hossa, meanwhile, has 14 goals and 15 assists; and is +9 with an actual team!

Waddell made a dumb trade and got garbage from Pittsburgh. Who's to say he won't take my deal, too? Which, in my opinion, offers the same degree of value.

He got young value though, he got pittsburghs 1st round pick, their 1st rounder of the past draft (Espo), a former 1st rounder (Colby) and Christensen who has shown flashes.

The point is he won't want impending UFA's.

[Bourne]

interesting break down, but I would argue we could compete with those names.

You've already mentioned Price.

Three times by three separate commentators this year I have heard Markov called "the Lidstrom of the east" - he can do it all: score, play defense, move big bodies - he's a top 5 defenseman in the league.

Now, anaheim had Pronger AND neidermayer - but it we were to add a top quality #4 dman, Id argue we might have the best 2 pairings in the league.

Selanne was an elite (top 5) player in his days in winnipeg and while he has had a resurgence in anaheim, his numbers have been close to those of Kovalev. Frankly its a toss up on which Id rather have in the playoffs. I would throw Koivu and Tanguay into that same category, so in essence we have MORE top quality players than Anaheim did.

I guess my point is that I rank Kovalchuk just slightly below Crosby Malkin & Ovechkin. I rank guys like Selanne, Koivu, Kovalev, Tanguay etc another step down from there.

Would I love to have Kovalchuk? Hell yeah. Do I think its possible right now? Yes...but at what cost? I think we would lower our overall team depth to get that one guy (a) because it will cost a lot and b ) because we would need to 'dump' useful players to make room for his cap hit). So while I think it may be doable, I think i would pass...which sounds strange because who passes on a top tier talent - but I think right now we're in too good a position to be blowing up the team.

True to an extent however with Selanne, during the season the Ducks won he hit close to 100 points, if not actually breaching passed such an achievement. Thus I would rank Selanne well above Kovalev for not only that however for his consistency, as even when Selanne struggled, he mounted a comeback whereas Kovalev has yet to do so. You could also argue Kovalchuk into the the ranking with Crosby, Malkin and Ovechkin given that he has numbers quite similar barring Ovechkin's crazed season.

My stand on trading for him is essentially we have quite a number of rookies and few are making to the roster due to our roster players. Thus why not ship some (not all) to land a true star player?

[Hoyle00cdn]

How is Waddell's last trade working out for him?

Eric Christensen? 1 goal, 7 assists, -7.

Colby Armstrong? 5 goals, 5 assists, even.

Angelo Esposito? A future A.H.L. regular?

Hossa, meanwhile, has 14 goals and 15 assists; and is +9 with an actual team!

Waddell made a dumb trade and got garbage from Pittsburgh. Who's to say he won't take my deal, too? Which, in my opinion, offers the same degree of value.

Hossa didn't have another year left on his contract, nor did Waddell trade for players he'd have to immediately resign.

[Habsology]

How is Waddell's last trade working out for him?

Eric Christensen? 1 goal, 7 assists, -7.

Colby Armstrong? 5 goals, 5 assists, even.

Angelo Esposito? A future A.H.L. regular?

Hossa, meanwhile, has 14 goals and 15 assists; and is +9 with an actual team!

Waddell made a dumb trade and got garbage from Pittsburgh. Who's to say he won't take my deal, too? Which, in my opinion, offers the same degree of value.

I always thought that Waddell got the lower end of that deal. If he traded with us he would have had much better players and prospects....

[leafs_rock_go_mccabe]

He got young value though, he got pittsburghs 1st round pick, their 1st rounder of the past draft (Espo), a former 1st rounder (Colby) and Christensen who has shown flashes.

The point is he won't want impending UFA's.

Fair enough!

I was just thinking Kovalev would have to be a part of the deal because of cap requirements. It won't work otherwise. It gives Atlanta a marketing tool for the rest of the campaign, too. On a bad team, Kovalev would be very good. It's not hard to put up big numbers on a bad team.

Hossa didn't have another year left on his contract, nor did Waddell trade for players he'd have to immediately resign.

Well, the meat of the trade is Weber, the 1st rounder, and D'Agostini.

[animerules1x3]

I always thought that Waddell got the lower end of that deal. If he traded with us he would have had much better players and prospects....

Well, if we really offered more than Shero, he would have taken our offer.

I think some undervalue the young players the Thrashers got. Sure, they seem to be underperforming, but they left one of the top teams in the East, Armstrong had Crosby setting him up, and Christensen was actually playing with decent guys on the team's lower 2 lines.

An offensive drop from these two was to be expected, I'm sure Waddell knew that, as he's not blind, he knows that his team is VERY short on depth.

[habby67]

We may as well forget it, he ain't coming here either...

[leafs_rock_go_mccabe]

Source (Farber)

Like the horizontal scar on the bridge of his nose, Ilya Kovalchuk wears his frustrations honorably. In five NHL seasons, he had as many 40-plus goal seasons as playoff games: four. Despite the futility, he still plays with a high-revving motor, maybe one not cranked to Alexander Ovechkin's RPMs, but certainly high enough.

Kovalchuk has done everything the Atlanta Thrashers could possibly expect of him, but he is no closer to winning -- indeed, he's probably farther away -- than he has been since his first few seasons when the team was still experiencing expansion growing pains. By the time his contract expires at the end of 2009-2010, Kovalchuk will likely have missed the playoffs two more times.

"I put thinking in the future (on the back burner) because I love hockey so much," Kovalchuk told On The Fly. "Sometimes I get frustrated, but it's not like I go home and cry in my pillow. We'll get through this and be a better team."

The question: Will Kovalchuk be around to see it?

General manager Don Waddell dawdled last season, hoping to sign Marian Hossa to a long-term deal and finally wheeling him to Pittsburgh in a trade deadline auction for Colby Armstrong, Erik Christensen, prospect Angelo Esposito and the Penguins' 2008 first-round draft choice -- a modest 29th overall. Those are not exactly building blocks of a future Stanley Cup threat.

Waddell can go the same route with Kovalchuk, who says all the right things about the organization. Or he can be preemptive and make a move in the next few months, sending the left winger to a contender who can handle the contract -- Kovalchuk earns $7.5 million annually -- and has enough depth to package draft choices and at least one future first-pair defenseman.

Atlanta had exactly that player, Braydon Coburn, who was traded to Philadelphia for Alexei Zhitnik when Waddell was under orders in 2006-07 to get the Thrashers into the playoffs. For that cameo playoff appearance -- a sweep at the hands of the New York Rangers -- Atlanta forfeited a player who should anchor an NHL defense for a decade.

The Thrashers continue to give up a bushel of good scoring chances each game, a heavy workload for the fragile Kari Lehtonen (who is still out with back problems) and everybody's favorite backup, Johan Hedberg. Since their inception, the Thrashers never have managed to solve their problems on the back end.

Of course, Waddell could be endangering his job by trading his best player, but the Thrashers already were tied for the fewest points with Tampa Bay entering Tuesday's games and were drawing poorly at home. With the team's conflicted ownership situation, Waddell, who now has hired three coaches and served as his own bench boss for much of last season, might be able to survive that, too.

Although Kovalchuk had 15 points in his past 12 games entering Tuesday, his numbers are down. With rookie coach John Anderson shaking up his lines, Kovalchuk (eight goals 13 assists) was expected to play with right wing Chris Thorburn (one and one) and center Marty Reasoner (four and three) against Montreal following a disappointing home loss to St. Louis. Kovalchuk has not had a playmaking center worthy of his finishing skills since the gifted but problematic Marc Savard signed as a free agent with Boston in 2006.

"Actually it's not that important who his center is," Hedberg said. "He's not a winger who is going to sit out there, waiting for the centerman to get him the puck. He's going to grab the puck and go and try to score. He just needs to play with guys who can win faceoffs, get him the puck at the right times and support him.

"Kovy enjoys playing the game so much that he's been frustrated at times. But he's still been creating chances and with one bounce, he'll be right back. Guys like him don't lose their enthusiasm. This is what he wanted to be doing since he was 10 years old. He wants to score so badly. And when he's scoring, he's happy."

Kovalchuk, of course, would be happier if he were doing it when it really mattered -- in the playoffs. "That," he said, "is when you show your real game. I'm getting tired of playing 82 (regular-season) games and watching on TV."

He better have HD. Unless Waddell makes a preemptive trade, Kovalchuk will have wasted another year of a fabulous career that could, depending on Sergei Fedorov's late-career productivity, make him the first Russian player in NHL history to score 500 goals.

[leafs_rock_go_mccabe]

To :

Ilya Kovalchuk ($6.400) UFA in 2010-2011.

3rd round draft choice (2009).

2nd round draft choice (2010).

To :

Alexei Kovalev ($4.500) - UFA in 2009-2010.

Mathieu Dandenault ($1.725) - UFA in 2009-2010.

Matt D'Agostini ($0.500) - RFA in 2009-2010.

Yannick Weber ($0.875) - RFA in 2011-2012.

1st round draft choice (2009).

4th round draft choice (2010).

A revision on my Kovalchuk trade.

To :

Ilya Kovalchuk ($6.400) UFA in 2010-2011.

4th round draft choice (2009).

4th round draft choice (2010).

To :

Alexei Kovalev ($4.500) - UFA in 2009-2010.

Chris Higgins ($1.700) - RFA in 2009-2010.

Ryan O'Byrne ($0.950) - RFA in 2011-2012.

Shawn Belle ($0.600) - RFA in 2009-2010.

1st round draft choice (2009).

3rd round draft choice (2010).

POST-TRADE ROSTER:

A. Kostitsyn - S. Koivu - M. D'Agostini

G. Latendresse - R. Lang - I. Kovalchuk

A. Tanguay - T. Plekanec - T. Kostopoulos

K. Chipchura - S. Begin - M. Lapierre

A. Markov - M. Komisarek

R. Hamrlik - J. Gorges

F. Bouillon - M. Dandenault

(P. Brisebois, G. Laraque, S. Kostitsyn) - Additional/press-box.

C. Price

J. Halak