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Report: Kovalchuk To Montreal Or Toronto?


jl-1

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I just don't see how we can get that 7.5 million dollar cap to fit.

We can send:

Christopher Higgins

Shawn Belle

PK Subban

2nd round draft choice 2009

Rights to Perezoghin

(That's 3 1st rounders and 2 2nd rounders)

And that's probably equivalent to Kovalchuk, but at that point we're missing about 4 million dollars.

If we add in Bouillon we might be able to mathematically pull it off at the trade deadline.

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I truly believe that to get this guy we will have to give good, young, cheap players in the trade and than trade some of our higher paid players to other teams for cheaper guys. The only way i see this working is this:

To Atlanta:

A.Kostitsyn

S.Kostitsyn

Mcdonagh OR Pacioretty

1st rounder 2009

late round pick like 4th-5th 2010

To Montreal:

Kovalchuk

4th rounder 2009

Then we would have to follow it with:

To Los Angles:

Kovalev

To Montreal:

B Boyle

1st rounder 2009

To St. Louis:

Dandenault

3rd rounder 2009

To Montreal:

Wagner

This way we would free up some space and than be able to keep Kovalchuk. The trades i made were quick so dont crucify me, i just wanted to make an example of what it would take.

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How is Waddell's last trade working out for him? :lol:

Eric Christensen? 1 goal, 7 assists, -7.

Colby Armstrong? 5 goals, 5 assists, even.

Angelo Esposito? A future A.H.L. regular? :o

Hossa, meanwhile, has 14 goals and 15 assists; and is +9 with an actual team!

Waddell made a dumb trade and got garbage from Pittsburgh. Who's to say he won't take my deal, too? Which, in my opinion, offers the same degree of value.

Perhaps however Christensen and Armstrong could easily have rebound seasons in the future and I believe you are underestimating Esposito. Nevertheless what reason would Waddell have accept such a deal? Atlanta will not make the playoffs this season, not even by a remote possibility; thus Kovalev is worthless as he will most certainly not resign with Atlanta. Your recent updated trade is even worse as Higgins is a sought out player, likely to sign either with us or another contender or would be contender. In your previous post how you can fathom us taking Atlanta's picks when they are in a must rebuild position baffles me.

Frankly for all those mentioning Kovalev in trade; take into consideration the only teams likely to accept him are would be contenders or those hopeful to scurry into the aforementioned playoffs in eighth. L.A. may contemplate Kovalev however I am doubtful of it.

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Frankly for all those mentioning Kovalev in trade; take into consideration the only teams likely to accept him are would be contenders or those hopeful to scurry into the aforementioned playoffs in eighth. L.A. may contemplate Kovalev however I am doubtful of it.

Right on. Kovalev's trade value is lower than people think right now. If we had really wanted to trade him, we should have done that in the off-season, after his great comeback year. Teams would've been interested, no doubt. Right now, he's a slumping UFA with a certain reputation. The return is going to be insignificant, not enough to warrant a trade I feel. He's still more valuable for our team as a player than the possible return he could fetch in a trade.

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Perhaps however Christensen and Armstrong could easily have rebound seasons in the future and I believe you are underestimating Esposito. Nevertheless what reason would Waddell have accept such a deal? Atlanta will not make the playoffs this season, not even by a remote possibility; thus Kovalev is worthless as he will most certainly not resign with Atlanta. Your recent updated trade is even worse as Higgins is a sought out player, likely to sign either with us or another contender or would be contender. In your previous post how you can fathom us taking Atlanta's picks when they are in a must rebuild position baffles me.

Frankly for all those mentioning Kovalev in trade; take into consideration the only teams likely to accept him are would be contenders or those hopeful to scurry into the aforementioned playoffs in eighth. L.A. may contemplate Kovalev however I am doubtful of it.

Higgins is a restricted free agent so he wouldn't be able to just, "Sign somewhere else." Kovalev absolutely has to be apart of the deal from a marketing standpoint for Atlanta (the need to put fans in the seat) and they need to get offense coming back in the deal. We also need to clear up cap room and we aren't going to be able to send them 4 NHL players and expect not to take any of Atlanta's other players back in the deal. Thus, continuing to make the money situation harder to navigate. I have also upgraded their draft choices, so as far as I am concerned it's not an issue. A principal I would operate on as G.M. of Montreal would be to attempt getting a pick (no matter how bad) back in a deal where you are giving up a pick. Knowing that Timmins is good at talent analysis, this seems like a decent idea to me. I think you are under-valuing my deal.

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Higgins is a restricted free agent so he wouldn't be able to just, "Sign somewhere else." Kovalev absolutely has to be apart of the deal from a marketing standpoint for Atlanta (the need to put fans in the seat) and they need to get offense coming back in the deal. We also need to clear up cap room and we aren't going to be able to send them 4 NHL players and expect not to take any of Atlanta's other players back in the deal. Thus, continuing to make the money situation harder to navigate. I have also upgraded their draft choices, so as far as I am concerned it's not an issue. A principal I would operate on as G.M. of Montreal would be to attempt getting a pick (no matter how bad) back in a deal where you are giving up a pick. Knowing that Timmins is good at talent analysis, this seems like a decent idea to me. I think you are under-valuing my deal.

Thats the thing though Kovalev does not want to be part of the deal.

Looking at it from a marketing standpoint is ridiculous, a GM's job is about player personnel, leave marketing to the business people and let the GM handle the franchise.

If they make that kind of move just so they can advertise someone because otherwise nobody will come to games, the franchise was lost from the start.

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ATLANTA JOURNAL-CONSTITUTION: Mark Bradley reports it's time for the Thrashers to trade star forward Ilya Kovalchuk. Bradley believes Kovalchuk will leave the team via free agency in 2010 so management shouldn't bother waiting, suggesting the talented forward would be best served playing on a team with other great players and suggesting the Thrashers could do no worse without him than they currently are with him.

SPECTOR'S NOTE: Bradley makes some good points in this article, but as long as GM Don Waddell either believes there's a chance of re-signing Kovalchuk or that the Thrashers gate would suffer more without Kovalchuk in the lineup he won't be going anywhere. If Waddell should change his mind or if Kovalchuk forces the issue by demanding a trade there would be considerable interest in him, but the absolute earliest we could expect a move would be the March trade deadline.

I don't know how much of his salary would count toward our cap at the deadline, but here's what I'm thinking for a deadline deal:

To ATL: Thomas Plekanec, Francis Bouillion, Jaroslav Halak, 1st rounder '09, 3rd rounder '09

To MTL: Ilya Kovalchuck, Jim Slater

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Thats the thing though Kovalev does not want to be part of the deal.

Looking at it from a marketing standpoint is ridiculous, a GM's job is about player personnel, leave marketing to the business people and let the GM handle the franchise.

If they make that kind of move just so they can advertise someone because otherwise nobody will come to games, the franchise was lost from the start.

Those are the realities of business, though. If the G.M. can't put fans in the stands, then he can say, "Bye-bye," to his comfy job. Kovalev would bring excitment for the remainder of the season, and he would put up some good numbers. Good players can put up good numbers on bad teams. Kovalev would do well. He might not like it, but pleasing Kovalev isn't what I was looking to do. I was hoping to make Montreal better! ;)

Does Kovalev have a limited no-trade, or something?

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ATLANTA JOURNAL-CONSTITUTION: Mark Bradley reports it's time for the Thrashers to trade star forward Ilya Kovalchuk. Bradley believes Kovalchuk will leave the team via free agency in 2010 so management shouldn't bother waiting, suggesting the talented forward would be best served playing on a team with other great players and suggesting the Thrashers could do no worse without him than they currently are with him.

SPECTOR'S NOTE: Bradley makes some good points in this article, but as long as GM Don Waddell either believes there's a chance of re-signing Kovalchuk or that the Thrashers gate would suffer more without Kovalchuk in the lineup he won't be going anywhere. If Waddell should change his mind or if Kovalchuk forces the issue by demanding a trade there would be considerable interest in him, but the absolute earliest we could expect a move would be the March trade deadline.

I don't know how much of his salary would count toward our cap at the deadline, but here's what I'm thinking for a deadline deal:

To ATL: Thomas Plekanec, Francis Bouillion, Jaroslav Halak, 1st rounder '09, 3rd rounder '09

To MTL: Ilya Kovalchuck, Jim Slater

Plekanec has to stay in Montreal, he's the only one certified good center that we got for years to come, and to trade him for a winger would make no sense at all, who's your second center once you bring Kovalchuck? Begin or Lapierre?

Never in a million years.

I could see Chris Higgins and O'byrne being part of a deal for a trade, but i don't even believe for a minute that Kovalchuk got 1% chance of coming to Montreal.

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Higgins is a restricted free agent so he wouldn't be able to just, "Sign somewhere else." Kovalev absolutely has to be apart of the deal from a marketing standpoint for Atlanta (the need to put fans in the seat) and they need to get offense coming back in the deal. We also need to clear up cap room and we aren't going to be able to send them 4 NHL players and expect not to take any of Atlanta's other players back in the deal. Thus, continuing to make the money situation harder to navigate. I have also upgraded their draft choices, so as far as I am concerned it's not an issue. A principal I would operate on as G.M. of Montreal would be to attempt getting a pick (no matter how bad) back in a deal where you are giving up a pick. Knowing that Timmins is good at talent analysis, this seems like a decent idea to me. I think you are under-valuing my deal.

Those are the realities of business, though. If the G.M. can't put fans in the stands, then he can say, "Bye-bye," to his comfy job. Kovalev would bring excitment for the remainder of the season, and he would put up some good numbers. Good players can put up good numbers on bad teams. Kovalev would do well. He might not like it, but pleasing Kovalev isn't what I was looking to do. I was hoping to make Montreal better! ;)

Does Kovalev have a limited no-trade, or something?

Kovalev is not exciting for fans of Atlanta who frankly could care less who is on their team so long as the team is winning. Furthermore Kovalev is having yet another slumping season on the scoring department despite of having talented players on the roster with him. I can imagine the trend will only continue if not worsen in Atlanta. You are severely overestimating Kovalev's current league wide value, which frankly I believe is rapidly dwindling as not only his personal slump but the team's as well. Now if you offer a bonus should Kovalev cause not to sign with Atlanta, Waddel may be more interested. As for principal it means little because Atlanta is not likely to offer any picks regardless of their value. Pittsburgh was straight up for Hossa and it will be the same for Kovalchuk (i.e. we only get Kovalchuk)

I will however concede Higgins based on I had forgottenhe he is a restricted free agent. I do however believe O'Bynre will have to be substituted out for another defensive prospect without any further alteration to your trade. O'Bynre's market value since the Long Island game is nonexistent, even as a throw in few teams are going to gamble on what is currently perceived as a defensive liability.

Thats the thing though Kovalev does not want to be part of the deal.

Looking at it from a marketing standpoint is ridiculous, a GM's job is about player personnel, leave marketing to the business people and let the GM handle the franchise.

If they make that kind of move just so they can advertise someone because otherwise nobody will come to games, the franchise was lost from the start.

Incorrect mate, hockey is as much a business as Starbucks, McDonalds or Blockbusters. A GM's job is to provide a marketable franchise that can earn a reasonable profit for the owner in question. Whether or not Kovalev wants to be traded is not a matter he is able to completely decide. He can veto any trade that will send him to the west however that is the extent of his negotiation abilities.

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To Atlanta:

A.Kostitsyn

S.Kostitsyn

Mcdonagh OR Pacioretty

1st rounder 2009

late round pick like 4th-5th 2010

To Montreal:

Kovalchuk

4th rounder 2009

3 1st rounders (A. Kostitsyn, McDonough and next year's), who are like 3, 7 and 10 years from free agency, for Ilya Kovalchuk who is 1 year from free agency and commanding a 7.5 million cap hit?

And on top of that you want to give up Sergei Kostitsyn?

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Those are the realities of business, though. If the G.M. can't put fans in the stands, then he can say, "Bye-bye," to his comfy job. Kovalev would bring excitment for the remainder of the season, and he would put up some good numbers. Good players can put up good numbers on bad teams. Kovalev would do well. He might not like it, but pleasing Kovalev isn't what I was looking to do. I was hoping to make Montreal better! ;)

Does Kovalev have a limited no-trade, or something?

If hes a GM and Presidnt its one thing, but if hes solely a GM his job is player personnel, nothing more and nothing less.

The business side of the organazation, making money and whatnot is a job for the president and while the prez may request a marketable player from the GM to up ratings and attendance, it is not the GM's responsiblity.

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Plekanec has to stay in Montreal, he's the only one certified good center that we got for years to come, and to trade him for a winger would make no sense at all, who's your second center once you bring Kovalchuck? Begin or Lapierre?

Never in a million years.

I could see Chris Higgins and O'byrne being part of a deal for a trade, but i don't even believe for a minute that Kovalchuk got 1% chance of coming to Montreal.

This.

I would love to have kovalchuk here but because of a) what it would cost to acquire him in terms of players and B) what we would have to move/dump to fit him under the cap, i think we'd be really messing with an already strong team in a move that could backfire. Sure, if you could just 'add' kovalchuk tomorrow, great - but moving someone like Plekanec - our only surefire top 2 centres who is likely to be playing in a couple of years, would be a huge mistake.

I love the fantasy of having Kovalchuk-Koivu-Tanguay as our first line, but I just dont see it happening.

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Kovalev is not exciting for fans of Atlanta who frankly could care less who is on their team so long as the team is winning. Furthermore Kovalev is having yet another slumping season on the scoring department despite of having talented players on the roster with him. I can imagine the trend will only continue if not worsen in Atlanta. You are severely overestimating Kovalev's current league wide value, which frankly I believe is rapidly dwindling as not only his personal slump but the team's as well. Now if you offer a bonus should Kovalev cause not to sign with Atlanta, Waddel may be more interested. As for principal it means little because Atlanta is not likely to offer any picks regardless of their value. Pittsburgh was straight up for Hossa and it will be the same for Kovalchuk (i.e. we only get Kovalchuk)

I will however concede Higgins based on I had forgottenhe he is a restricted free agent. I do however believe O'Bynre will have to be substituted out for another defensive prospect without any further alteration to your trade. O'Bynre's market value since the Long Island game is nonexistent, even as a throw in few teams are going to gamble on what is currently perceived as a defensive liability.

If Kovalev scores a goal in Atlanta... and no one's around... does he really score? :lol: Do the fans even care if the team is winning. I am just thinking that Kovalev would be someone exciting who can play on the 1st line that Atlanta could make use of for the remainder of the seasons. Obviously this wouldn't work if the trade were to happen later in the season, as opposed to sooner. I don't think I am over-estimating his value, just commenting that he is exciting, he does score points, and he would be interesting for the fans to watch. O'Byrne, too, I think still has value. I think most smart general managers would see that, despite one huge error, he still has future upside. Although, I will concede, as an Atlanta fan it would be funny. "What the heck? We traded Kovalchuk for the guy who scored on his own net?" ;)

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A revision on my Kovalchuk trade.

To medium.png :

Ilya Kovalchuk ($6.400) UFA in 2010-2011.

4th round draft choice (2009).

4th round draft choice (2010).

To medium.png :

Alexei Kovalev ($4.500) - UFA in 2009-2010.

Chris Higgins ($1.700) - RFA in 2009-2010.

Ryan O'Byrne ($0.950) - RFA in 2011-2012.

Shawn Belle ($0.600) - RFA in 2009-2010.

1st round draft choice (2009).

3rd round draft choice (2010).

My 3rd revision in an attempt to obtain Kovalchuk AND impress the members of the board. :lol:;)

To medium.png :

Ilya Kovalchuk ($6.400) - UFA in 2010-2011.

Niclas Havelid ($2.700) - UFA in 2009-2010.

4th round draft choice (2009).

To medium.png :

Alexei Kovalev ($4.500) - UFA in 2009-2010.

Chris Higgins ($1.700) - RFA in 2009-2010.

Francis Bouillon ($1.875) - UFA in 2009-2010.

Guillaume Latendresse ($0.850) - RFA in 2009-2010.

Yannick Weber ($0.875) - RFA in 2011-2012.

1st round draft choice (2009).

2nd round draft choice (2010).

POST-TRADE ROSTER:

A. Kostitsyn - S. Koivu - M. D'Agostini

A. Tanguay - R. Lang - I. Kovalchuk

C. Higgins - T. Plekanec - S. Kostitsyn

K. Chipchura - S. Begin - T. Kostopoulos

A. Markov - M. Komisarek

R. Hamrlik - J. Gorges

N. Havelid - R. O'Byrne

(G. Laraque, P. Brisebois, M. Lapierre) - Additional/Press-box.

C. Price

J. Halak

Whew! :lol:

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IMO, Atlanta simply does not have enough talent that giving them Kovalev will make them any more successful. They should take a page out of the Leafs book (can't believe i said that :blink: ) and try to build a team that never gives up, that plays hard every game. Toronto is having some success that way, and I think Atlanta could too (which would then put more fans in their seats). A team that never quits is always exciting to watch. So I suggest we give them young character players.

To Montreal: Kovalchuk

To Atlanta: Higgins, Chipchura, D'Agostini, Weber

that's 2 first round picks (one with around 25 goals for 3 consecutive seasons, one who has been a captain everywhere he's been), one of the top AHL players this season who is NHL ready now (they could have had Grabovski last year for Hossa, they better not miss the train with D'Agostini ;) ) and one of the top defensemen in the OHL last season and who is off to a great start in the AHL. If they want another NHL'er we can add either Latendresse or O'Byrne. If they want another prospect we can give them one of White, Fischer, Kristo.

Now they have a stronger neucleus of character players, and next season they can add Tavares or Hedman to their roster (even with Kovalchuk they'd finish last). The only problem is how to fit him under our salary cap.

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IMO, Atlanta simply does not have enough talent that giving them Kovalev will make them any more successful. They should take a page out of the Leafs book (can't believe i said that :blink: ) and try to build a team that never gives up, that plays hard every game. Toronto is having some success that way, and I think Atlanta could too (which would then put more fans in their seats). A team that never quits is always exciting to watch. So I suggest we give them young character players.

To Montreal: Kovalchuk

To Atlanta: Higgins, Chipchura, D'Agostini, Weber

that's 2 first round picks (one with around 25 goals for 3 consecutive seasons, one who has been a captain everywhere he's been), one of the top AHL players this season who is NHL ready now (they could have had Grabovski last year for Hossa, they better not miss the train with D'Agostini ;) ) and one of the top defensemen in the OHL last season and who is off to a great start in the AHL. If they want another NHL'er we can add either Latendresse or O'Byrne. If they want another prospect we can give them one of White, Fischer, Kristo.

Now they have a stronger neucleus of character players, and next season they can add Tavares or Hedman to their roster (even with Kovalchuk they'd finish last). The only problem is how to fit him under our salary cap.

In case that seems like a low ball offer, I'd also do Higgins, Chipchura, D'Agostini, McDonagh for Kovalchuk.

(Tried to edit my last post, but it didn't let me)

As appealing as both of those deals would be for Atlanta, they make no sense financially, as we wouldn't be able to fit Kovalchuk under our cap, making the deal impossible. Someone, like Kovalev, HAS to go back the other way to make the numbers work. ;)

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As appealing as both of those deals would be for Atlanta, they make no sense financially, as we wouldn't be able to fit Kovalchuk under our cap, making the deal impossible. Someone, like Kovalev, HAS to go back the other way to make the numbers work. ;)

I'm no salary cap expert, but we are saving money from Komisarek since he's on injured reserve, + we initially had cap room, so I'm hoping that if we get Kovalchuk in a few weeks, that maybe we'd only have to dump somebody like Begin. I do realize however that that may be wishful thinking and that you're right that we have to shed a larger salary <_<

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Man, after watching Kovalchuk (last two nights) and AK46 (Tuesday), do these guys ever look similar on the ice (skating, puckhandling, sturdy on the skates).

It'd sure be great if Andrei accelerated into becoming a Kovulchuk!

He won't become like Ilya, but I honestly think Andrei is one of the most underrated youngsters in the game (hes still only 23), and 40 goals is a very realistic expectation even though 35-38 should be a good expectation level.

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