mac--amp--Cheese Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 The numbers don't add up... just as his salry/caphit is pro-rated so are any Habs (and I would suggest it is tabulated on the number of games played by a player's team to-date.) Why do you think he will not re-sign with a team he is traded to... Brian, I’m not challenging your formula to pro-rate, and it make sense to me. However, I have been using a different formula, dividing salary by 186 days and subtracting that from total number of days left,( approx. 126x daily salary ). I think Oct.10 or 6th. was the start. Have I been wasting time? Dividing games into salary is easier and faster to get a pro-rated cap hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mauro-Biello Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 Seems like alot to give up,really. Never see that happening. C'mon,your kidding around......are you? Go habs... Well I doubt that adding a 2nd Rounder and a 3rd rounder would make the offer more tempting for Waddell. I don't think he would take it anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koivu-the-great Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 This is my thought on a possible trade: TO ATL: Latendresse Higgins 1st Round pick 09 OByrne To MTL Kovalchuk Signing Kovalchuk long-term outweighs any production, combined by those players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mauro-Biello Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 This is my thought on a possible trade: TO ATL: Latendresse Higgins 1st Round pick 09 OByrne To MTL Kovalchuk Signing Kovalchuk long-term outweighs any production, combined by those players Doubt it. Remember that Kovalchuk is a better player than Hossa and he has one more year left in his contract. Christensen and Armstrong both had one more year in their contracts. Latendresse and Higgins become RFA and UFA after this season. I really don't think there would be any agreement between Gainey and Waddell. I think Waddell would want something more like this: 1st Rounder Andrei Kostitsyn Latendresse (RFA) Higgins (UFA) McDonagh O'Byrne or Carle Christensen was a talented player who couldnt do much in the NHL, but I believe Armstrong contributes more than Latendresse. McDonagh is sorta like Esposito. And because Kovalchuk is worth more than Hossa, we'll need to add in AK46 and maybe carle or obyrne. Now this is something I would never do. I'd actually be more inclined to do my last proposition with the draft picks (but substituting the 2nd pick for a 4th) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flames4eva Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 Brian, I’m not challenging your formula to pro-rate, and it make sense to me. However, I have been using a different formula, dividing salary by 186 days and subtracting that from total number of days left,( approx. 126x daily salary ). I think Oct.10 or 6th. was the start. Have I been wasting time? Dividing games into salary is easier and faster to get a pro-rated cap hit.I don't think you have been wasying your time. However, games played are what make up a season for a team at any given time. (Players are payed in bonus terms per round for playoffs, where number of total days cannot be calculated.) Your system could be valid... maybe I'm the one that is wrong.... but I would suggest my method does represent services performed and not days accumulated that may not include the same number of games from one team to another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac--amp--Cheese Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 I don't think you have been wasting your time. However, games played are what make up a season for a team at any given time. (Players are payed in bonus terms per round for playoffs, where number of total days cannot be calculated.) Your system could be valid... maybe I'm the one that is wrong.... but I would suggest my method does represent services performed and not days accumulated that may not include the same number of games from one team to another. Thank you Brian, I have been searching the CBA for the past two hours for conformation of either, and the closest I can find is this; There are other areas of the CBA that list the league season by days. "To understand how each team's cap count is calculated, think of a bank account. For the 2007-08 season, teams got a "deposit" of about $268,984 each day which they can spend on player salaries. (This is $50.3 million divided by 187 days, the length of the ’07-08 season; the season is deemed to have started on October 3, 2007 even though there were two regular-season games played in London.) The difference left over is the "payroll room", the amount that can be used in the future - so each team's cap count can go up or down on a daily basis. The amount of "payroll room" can never fall below zero - so teams can't borrow from the future to pay for today." I like your system of games better, it's easier and faster. However, I think member Graeme posted a a easy guide last year outlining the formula to be used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac--amp--Cheese Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 Rocket had the cost/cap today for Kovalchuk using games at $3.5 million. If we use the league season (days ) the cost/cap today would be $5,107.377 million (approx) That kind of cap hit would not work. The league season runs from opening day until July 1st. ( 186 days ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket-1 Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 Rocket had the cost/cap today for Kovalchuk using games at $3.5 million. If we use the league season (days ) the cost/cap today would be $5,107.377 million (approx) That kind of cap hit would not work. The league season runs from opening day until July 1st. ( 186 days ) The players don't get pay by the "day" but once every 2 weeks, so im pretty sure my numbers are in the "correct range" they might not be totally exact, but they're not too far of the reality either. Why do you think he will not re-sign with a team he is traded to... Him and his agent are gonna want the big bucks of July 1st. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flames4eva Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 Rocket had the cost/cap today for Kovalchuk using games at $3.5 million. If we use the league season (days ) the cost/cap today would be $5,107.377 million (approx) That kind of cap hit would not work. The league season runs from opening day until July 1st. ( 186 days ) Rocket actually used a weekly pay schedule I believe and not games. But he forgot that Habs' salaries/Cap hit would have to be pro-rated too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket-1 Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 Rocket actually used a weekly pay schedule I believe and not games. But he forgot that Habs' salaries/Cap hit would have to be pro-rated too. I didn't forget that, remember about the part where i said that at least 1 or 2 players with NHL contract would need to go the other way, i guess you forgot to add that extra money to create cap room. We won't get any superstar for free unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flames4eva Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 I didn't forget that, remember about the part where i said that at least 1 or 2 players with NHL contract would need to go the other way, i guess you forgot to add that extra money to create cap room. We won't get any superstar for free unfortunately. You said, "We only need 1,090,000$ to make room for Kovalchuk, so if 1 or 2 players with NHL contracts are involve in the trade we got enough room for him. I'll explain myself, the cap space at the moment is: 1,550,000$ (you could easily add 860,000$ to that amount (Ryan O'byrne salary if sent to hamilton) so that would makes it: 2,410,000$))" O'Byrne's cap hit would need to be pro-rated... as well as any other Hab in the trade, is what I'm saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arpem-can Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 BG wants us to win this year...if the price is right he pulls the trigger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HABFANDOG Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 BG wants us to win this year...if the price is right he pulls the trigger couldn't agree more. he is also signed for one more season and is a superstar. opens up alot of different sceneios in the offseason when you have a great player for the upcoming season signed and so many ufa's to tend to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA_Champion Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Marian Hossa, a rental player of similar value, warranted medium quality roster players, medium to high quality prospects, and a late 1st round draft pick. It was the best offer in the league. How about this: Roster players Guillaume Latendresse Ryan O'Byrne Christopher Higgins (Worth more than Christensen and Armstrong) Prospects: One of Yannick Weber, Mathieu Carle or PK Subban (An offensive defensemen) Thomas Beauregard (Worth about as much as Angelo Esposito) Draft Picks 2nd round pick 2009 1st round pick 2010 3rd round pick 2010 conditional on Habs making Stanley Cup Finals in either year (Worth a little bit more than one immediate 1st round pick) Also: Salary dump, likely Francis Bouillon So overall we give up a bit more than the Penguins gave up, where everyone thinks they overpaid, for a player of slightly higher value. It makes sense, And then we have a second line of: Kovalchuk - Lang/Plekanec - Kovalev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket-1 Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 lol you guys are giving up so much that the trashers would probably do it in a heart beat. Thank god Bob Gainey is not like you guys lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HABFANDOG Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 lol you guys are giving up so much that the trashers would probably do it in a heart beat. Thank god Bob Gainey is not like you guys lol. agreed. these offers are way too much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mauro-Biello Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Marian Hossa, a rental player of similar value, warranted medium quality roster players, medium to high quality prospects, and a late 1st round draft pick. It was the best offer in the league. How about this: Roster players Guillaume Latendresse Ryan O'Byrne Christopher Higgins (Worth more than Christensen and Armstrong) Prospects: One of Yannick Weber, Mathieu Carle or PK Subban (An offensive defensemen) Thomas Beauregard (Worth about as much as Angelo Esposito) Draft Picks 2nd round pick 2009 1st round pick 2010 3rd round pick 2010 conditional on Habs making Stanley Cup Finals in either year (Worth a little bit more than one immediate 1st round pick) Also: Salary dump, likely Francis Bouillon So overall we give up a bit more than the Penguins gave up, where everyone thinks they overpaid, for a player of slightly higher value. I believe the Pens overpaid, but that's what it takes to get a player of this calibre. I don't believe Higgins is worth more than Christensen and Armstrong. Remember he is going to be a UFA. Christensen and Armstrong had one year left in their contracts. Beauregard as good as Esposito? Beauregard is older, undrafted and plays in the ECHL... Esposito might not be much right now but he is a wild card and has more untapped potential. This deal is not as lean as some of the other deals I've seen but I think Waddell might want some more quality and less quantity. Also if I were Bob, I don't think I would want to part with so many draft picks. I just don't think it would be a good idea to get Kovalchuk here, he will cost too much. lol you guys are giving up so much that the trashers would probably do it in a heart beat. Thank god Bob Gainey is not like you guys lol. I doubt Gainey will be able to get him here via a trade. But I can't believe some of the propositions I've seen here. Most of you are definetely underestimating Kovalchuk. Waddell is not going to just hand him away to us for a cheap package. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac--amp--Cheese Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Rocket actually used a weekly pay schedule I believe and not games. But he forgot that Habs' salaries/Cap hit would have to be pro-rated too. I guess I didn’t explain myself very well, First I would love to have Kovalchuk. Now, with that out of the way. I was questioning ‘Rocket’s’ formula for pro-rated the balance of cap only, not the frequency of being paid. My reason for that is; I once posted something similar for another player and used, number of games (82) / by cap hit and I was corrected by a member and reminded to use the CBA formula of taking the league season of 186 days and dividing into the total cap the team acquiring the player is only responsible for the remaining days of that season. A example would be, Kovalchuk cap hit is $6.4 million Divided by 186= $34,408.60 per day . From today, 60 days have expired from the 186 Meaning, (according to the CBA ) For Montreal to acquire Kovalchuk it would be 126* 34408.60 = a balance of cap at $5,105.337. Where is Graeme or the numbers guy when you need them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leafsbaby08 Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 This would be great but once again, do we ever get superstar goalscorers? nope. Just another one of those situations where its a nice thought but way too good to be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amp73 Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 . I don't believe Higgins is worth more than Christensen and Armstrong. Remember he is going to be a UFA. Christensen and Armstrong had one year left in their contracts. Higgins is a RFA in 2009-2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mauro-Biello Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Higgins is a RFA in 2009-2010 Uh which is right after this season no? EDIT: oh right U FA.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HABFANDOG Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 i would say that it would take both christensen & armstrong to get higgins so he is definately worth more!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concreteveins Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Higgins is a RFA in 2009-2010 Yeah that's true. http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?tea...amp;season=0809 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habby67 Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Kov is never and I repeat never coming to Montreal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket-1 Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 I guess I didn’t explain myself very well, First I would love to have Kovalchuk. Now, with that out of the way. I was questioning ‘Rocket’s’ formula for pro-rated the balance of cap only, not the frequency of being paid. My reason for that is; I once posted something similar for another player and used, number of games (82) / by cap hit and I was corrected by a member and reminded to use the CBA formula of taking the league season of 186 days and dividing into the total cap the team acquiring the player is only responsible for the remaining days of that season. A example would be, Kovalchuk cap hit is $6.4 million Divided by 186= $34,408.60 per day . From today, 60 days have expired from the 186 Meaning, (according to the CBA ) For Montreal to acquire Kovalchuk it would be 126* 34408.60 = a balance of cap at $5,105.337. Where is Graeme or the numbers guy when you need them. The only reason my numbers were a little off it's because ive read somewhere that Kovalchuk was making 290,000$ a week, but that was probably translated into canadiens dollars for some reason, anyway your math on 34,408.60 times 126 is wrong and it's 4,335,483.60 and minus 240,860.20 every week from now on. So next week it's a little more than 4 million minus our cap room + 2 players with NHL contract going the other way, that would be possible. The only problem is...... I don't want Kovalchuk unless he comes here with an extension already signed which is..... never going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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