Report: Kovalchuk To Montreal Or Toronto?

[SteenIsThaFuture]

Would be weird to make someone captain and trade him right after, don't you think?

I dunno, I don't see why it matters, its just a letter on a jersey.

[roy_133]

I dunno, I don't see why it matters, its just a letter on a jersey.

It doesn't matter, but if you were even entertaining the idea of trading a player it would be odd to make him a captain a few weeks before hand.

[SteenIsThaFuture]

It doesn't matter, but if you were even entertaining the idea of trading a player it would be odd to make him a captain a few weeks before hand.

Good points, but not knowing the operations inside the Thrashers, who knows if there is an intergral plan to trade him, or if all of a sudden a good deal pops up one day and they jump on it.

[some-guy-pp1]

Look how much hossa went for

Atlantas gm is a greedy guy

Bg will not deal the whole team for 1 player

The thing is, we might as well drop a few guys for the salary dump or player dump because we can spare a lot.

[roy_133]

Good points, but not knowing the operations inside the Thrashers, who knows if there is an intergral plan to trade him, or if all of a sudden a good deal pops up one day and they jump on it.

Well there's no question if the right deal came they'd move him, they're not in a position to make anyone untouchable with all their needs. I just think this is an indication they won't actively pursue a trade (which a lot of people around here seemed to think would happen)

[SteenIsThaFuture]

Well there's no question if the right deal came they'd move him, they're not in a position to make anyone untouchable with all their needs. I just think this is an indication they won't actively pursue a trade (which a lot of people around here seemed to think would happen)

They'll probably wait until the Draft to trade him IMO.

[S-Bah]

For Kovalchuk :

Hamrlik

McDonagh

1st pick 2009 and 2010

Matt d'agostini.

Hamrlik was 1st overall pick and a great replacement for Sheldon Souray,McDonagh was12th overall, before Pacioretty and Subban.the year before we got Fischer,Maxwell and Carle, defencemen usually take 3-4 yrs. experience to be NHl ready. D'agostini has taken that long to break into our lineup as a forward. Looking at our draft picks of the last few years, I wouldn't give up two first rounders as well as the other players short of getting Ovechkin, Malkin or Crosby not necessarily in that order.

Why not just give them the farm,er Hamilton Bulldogs, Cincinnati Cyclones and the Bell Centre.

Uh, that's not 'giving them the farm.' In fact, there is little incentive for Atlanta to make that deal, since McDonagh is the only blue-chip part of what we'd give. They'd have no use for Hamrlik except as a way to reach the cap floor, and D'Agostini is a solid 2nd or 3rd-line scorer, nothing more. McDonagh and two first-rounders is what we'd need even to get the conversation started.

I swear, people love to overrate our prospects and our depth, yet still somehow believe we can get Mario Lemieux reborn for a bag of pucks. To get a star player in his prime -- e.g. Kovalchuk -- you have to give up a lot.

[tony1234]

Thank you sportsfreak, that's exactly what I think too. It's not Lecavalier that's the problem, it's Lecavalier at his current cap hit for the next 10 years.

Does Bob maybe know some things we don't know ?

Are there going to be a bunch of guys leaving, and us being without any proven vets ?

Does he believe he has enough good young promising kids coming that he can surround that cap hit with cheap people for the next few years ?

There are alot more younger players being an impact in the game nowadays.

I don't like the cap hit either, but Bob has access to all this type of info, but more importantly, a capologist on staff.

I am sure if he decides to do something like this, it will be a pretty sound judgment.

[SteenIsThaFuture]

Does Bob maybe know some things we don't know ?

Are there going to be a bunch of guys leaving, and us being without any proven vets ?

Does he believe he has enough good young promising kids coming that he can surround that cap hit with cheap people for the next few years ?

There are alot more younger players being an impact in the game nowadays.

I don't like the cap hit either, but Bob has access to all this type of info, but more importantly, a capologist on staff.

I am sure if he decides to do something like this, it will be a pretty sound judgment.

Say that to Tampa and Ottawa, because their capologists should be hung and stoned if they were at all good at their jobs.

All moves are open to debate within the knowledge that is available to us.

[tony1234]

Say that to Tampa and Ottawa, because their capologists should be hung and stoned if they were at all good at their jobs.

All moves are open to debate within the knowledge that is available to us.

Of course all moves are open to debate, otherwise we wouldn't have a forum !!!

Just trying to bring some prospective here, Bob isn't out to wreck the franchise !!!!

And you are right, not all capologists may be good, but does that mean ours is bad ?

[SteenIsThaFuture]

Of course all moves are open to debate, otherwise we wouldn't have a forum !!!

Just trying to bring some prospective here, Bob isn't out to wreck the franchise !!!!

And you are right, not all capologists may be good, but does that mean ours is bad ?

No but until proven that he is the Adam Smith of Salary Cap, we can't take it for granted that every move the organazation makes will be the right one financially, if that was the case I'd just call a stock broker, ask for some blind advice and put my life savings into whatever penny stock I was told was hot.

[Bourne]

Uh, that's not 'giving them the farm.' In fact, there is little incentive for Atlanta to make that deal, since McDonagh is the only blue-chip part of what we'd give. They'd have no use for Hamrlik except as a way to reach the cap floor, and D'Agostini is a solid 2nd or 3rd-line scorer, nothing more. McDonagh and two first-rounders is what we'd need even to get the conversation started.

I swear, people love to overrate our prospects and our depth, yet still somehow believe we can get Mario Lemieux reborn for a bag of pucks. To get a star player in his prime -- e.g. Kovalchuk -- you have to give up a lot.

I could not agree more, Weep. Honestly some of the trades I have seen (not mentioning names, nor are all even on this site) leave me awe inspired how anyone could imagine we could dump our garbage on another team and expect a grand return. I wonder if this Lecavalier possibility will enlighten people just how much an 'proven star' can cost, although I'll be the first to say Vinny is a poor example given his contract and how Tampa actually believes they can squeeze as much as has been mentioned out of us.

[fourtrax]

Hamrlik was 1st overall pick and a great replacement for Sheldon Souray,McDonagh was12th overall, before Pacioretty and Subban.the year before we got Fischer,Maxwell and Carle, defencemen usually take 3-4 yrs. experience to be NHl ready. D'agostini has taken that long to break into our lineup as a forward. Looking at our draft picks of the last few years, I wouldn't give up two first rounders as well as the other players short of getting Ovechkin, Malkin or Crosby not necessarily in that order.

What does Hamrlik's draft status have to do with anything? Sure, he went 1st overall many years ago, but today, he's an aging mostly defensive defenseman with a $5.5 million cap hit. He won't be your no. 1 blue liner, he won't generate lots of points, why does Atlanta want that? They're planning for the future, and Hamrlik does nothing to help them in that regard. McDonagh and the picks are valuable, but the Thrashers will want more before they unload a star sniper in his prime. D'Agostini is just a second or third-line prospect, a good player but nothing special. You say you wouldn't make the deal unless it were for Crosby, Malkin or Ovechkin? I say Atlanta laughs in our face if we come to them with Hamrlik, McDonagh, D'Agostini & 2 first-rounders as a package for Kovalchuk. They'd want more, and they know they could get it easily from another team.

To Atlanta:

• McDonagh
• 1st-round pick 2009
• 1st-round pick 2010
• Fischer
• Higgins
• Halak
• Begin

To Montreal:

• A signed Kovalchuk -- contract extension of 4 years at $8 million per, weighted to pay him more in the first two years
• 2nd-round pick 2009
• 3rd-round pick 2010

I think this is a fair deal for both sides.

Atlanta gets 1 elite D prospect (McDonagh), 1 good D prospect (Fischer), a valuable two-way forward in his prime (Higgins), a potential starting goalie (Halak) to push Lehtonen, and two 1st-rounders to replenish their draft pool. We need them to take Begin for cap reasons, but he'll be UFA this summer so it shouldn't be a huge problem for them.

We get our marquee sniper for the remainder of this season and 5 more years. We get a couple of lower-round picks to offset the drain on our resources, which Timmins should be able to convert into roster players down the road. And we don't actually give up a roster d-man this season, thus keeping our blue line strong for a playoff run.

[SteenIsThaFuture]

@ weep, I don't think they want Halak, they have a young top prospect goalie in Ondrej Havelec.

Also IMO, Davis Fischer may be overrated by this organzation.

[DA_Champion]

What does Hamrlik's draft status have to do with anything? Sure, he went 1st overall many years ago, but today, he's an aging mostly defensive defenseman with a $5.5 million cap hit. He won't be your no. 1 blue liner, he won't generate lots of points, why does Atlanta want that? They're planning for the future, and Hamrlik does nothing to help them in that regard. McDonagh and the picks are valuable, but the Thrashers will want more before they unload a star sniper in his prime. D'Agostini is just a second or third-line prospect, a good player but nothing special. You say you wouldn't make the deal unless it were for Crosby, Malkin or Ovechkin? I say Atlanta laughs in our face if we come to them with Hamrlik, McDonagh, D'Agostini & 2 first-rounders as a package for Kovalchuk. They'd want more, and they know they could get it easily from another team.

To Atlanta:

• McDonagh
• 1st-round pick 2009
• 1st-round pick 2010
• Fischer
• Higgins
• Halak
• Begin

To Montreal:

• A signed Kovalchuk -- contract extension of 4 years at $8 million per, weighted to pay him more in the first two years
• 2nd-round pick 2009
• 3rd-round pick 2010

I think this is a fair deal for both sides.

Atlanta gets 1 elite D prospect (McDonagh), 1 good D prospect (Fischer), a valuable two-way forward in his prime (Higgins), a potential starting goalie (Halak) to push Lehtonen, and two 1st-rounders to replenish their draft pool. We need them to take Begin for cap reasons, but he'll be UFA this summer so it shouldn't be a huge problem for them.

We get our marquee sniper for the remainder of this season and 5 more years. We get a couple of lower-round picks to offset the drain on our resources, which Timmins should be able to convert into roster players down the road. And we don't actually give up a roster d-man this season, thus keeping our blue line strong for a playoff run.

Weeping Minotaur,

I think you are sometimes a very skeptical person; you say you are a graduate student in literature, is it something truly depressing like Canadian literature or 19th century Russian literature? I want to compare your Kovalchuk trade to the Hossa trade from a year ago:

Roster players:

Higgins, Halak, and Begin vs Armstrong and Christensen

Prospects:

McDonough and Fischer vs Esposito

Picks:

2 1st rounders vs 1 1st rounder.

In other words, you are saying that Kovalchuk with 1.5 years left is worth approximately double what Hossa was worth.

I think a more reasonable estimate is that (Kovalchuk Value) = (Hossa Value + Epsilon), something like Yannick Weber, or the rights to Perezhogin, or a 2nd rounder.

[fourtrax]

@ weep, I don't think they want Halak, they have a young top prospect goalie in Ondrej Havelec.

Also IMO, Davis Fischer may be overrated by this organzation.

Okay, I didn't know that about Havelec, but he can't be ready right now, can he? Halak has to be farther ahead in his development. If not, replace Halak with someone like D'Agostini.

As for Fischer, he isn't supposed to be the main piece in the deal -- that's McDonagh, no question -- so I don't think I'm overrating him. But if you object, then swap him out for Weber and/or Carle.

Weeping Minotaur,

I think you are sometimes a very skeptical person; you say you are a graduate student in literature, is it something truly depressing like Canadian literature or 19th century Russian literature? I want to compare your Kovalchuk trade to the Hossa trade from a year ago:

Roster players:

Higgins, Halak, and Begin vs Armstrong and Christensen

Prospects:

McDonough and Fischer vs Esposito

Picks:

2 1st rounders vs 1 1st rounder.

In other words, you are saying that Kovalchuk with 1.5 years left is worth approximately double what Hossa was worth.

I think a more reasonable estimate is that (Kovalchuk Value) = (Hossa Value + Epsilon), something like Yannick Weber, or the rights to Perezhogin, or a 2nd rounder.

Your intro cracked me up, Champion! But seriously, though, read my post again. I am not saying Kovalchuk for one more year is worth all that. What we get is a signed Kovalchuk to a four-year contract extension.

[SteenIsThaFuture]

Okay, I didn't know that about Havelec, but he can't be ready right now, can he? Halak has to be farther ahead in his development. If not, replace Halak with someone like D'Agostini.

As for Fischer, he isn't supposed to be the main piece in the deal -- that's McDonagh, no question -- so I don't think I'm overrating him. But if you object, then swap him out for Weber and/or Carle.

I don't think an NHL ready goalie would matter, Atlanta isn't competeing right now, and Havelec is pressuring Kari enough.

[fourtrax]

I don't think an NHL ready goalie would matter, Atlanta isn't competeing right now, and Havelec is pressuring Kari enough.

OK, then like I said, replace Halak with D'Agostini in the trade. In fact, that's probably better for us, since we have plenty of winger depth but not so much on the goalie front.

[357908_1475251331]

i used to think atlanta could use halak, but with clemenson, labarbera, and all the ufa goalies nest year atlanta can pick exactly who they want without bargaining their potential with more experienced teams like the habs.

i think its time to switch course.

i'd be surprised to see hossa make the mistake of not wading deep into the ufa situation by waiting till the last minute to make a decision, which just makes for agents thinking like sundin- that a great forward is not part of a team, but a great forward.

third- its pretty obvious that dollars are the key- the payout and the standing are one in the same, so even building a team to trade on, with an eye for acquiring kovalchuk on fantasy hope is getting mundane.

ergo- this is a poor man's hope- we better stop buying the lease's on the likes of kovalchuk and vinny, and even stop hoping for hossa before that comes around, because we still need to think team- unlike the rest of the league who needs to think payout, to keep the players that we have unsigned but necessary.

just a thought.

[habs1119]

i used to think atlanta could use halak, but with clemenson, labarbera, and all the ufa goalies nest year atlanta can pick exactly who they want without bargaining their potential with more experienced teams like the habs.

i think its time to switch course.

i'd be surprised to see hossa make the mistake of not wading deep into the ufa situation by waiting till the last minute to make a decision, which just makes for agents thinking like sundin- that a great forward is not part of a team, but a great forward.

third- its pretty obvious that dollars are the key- the payout and the standing are one in the same, so even building a team to trade on, with an eye for acquiring kovalchuk on fantasy hope is getting mundane.

ergo- this is a poor man's hope- we better stop buying the lease's on the likes of kovalchuk and vinny, and even stop hoping for hossa before that comes around, because we still need to think team- unlike the rest of the league who needs to think payout, to keep the players that we have unsigned but necessary.

just a thought.

It's a great thought. It's basically what BG has been saying all along. And it's exactly why I feel he'll make a deal for a top 4 D-man before a blockbuster with Tampa. No need to bleed the team dry and ruin the depth we have if it means crippling our blueline (which is what needs the most help)

[Habcup]

They'll probably wait until the Draft to trade him IMO.

[booboo_mtl]

Everyone says that Vinny comes with this HUGE contract that we'd be stuck with. It is one of the bigger ones in the league but do you really think that in 10 years this contract will look big?

[KOVALUV]

Do you think that Atlanta would still consider trading Kovalchuk, I mean they recentley named him team captain and have been praising his new role as captain saying how much he has stepped up. Do you see Atlanta still wanting to trade him? I think they made him captain for just that purpose. But i realize just because your captain does not mean your safe

[booboo_mtl]

Everyone says that Vinny comes with this HUGE contract that we'd be stuck with. It is one of the bigger ones in the league but do you really think that in 10 years this contract will look big?

Please allow me to blast myself. Wrong thread goof.