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Jay Bouwmeester


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Much has been said about Bouwmeester's status with the Panthers and rumours have been ongoing that he won't re-sign with them. But where will he go and how long before he's traded? Seeing their problems putting the puck in the net and the lack of success on the ice, how long before Jacques Martin pulls the trigger?

November 5, 2008 | 3:07am ET

Panthers GM threatens changes

TheFourthPeriod.com

Panthers GM Jacques Martin is disappointed in his team's slow start to the season and is considering trading some of his players, reports the South Florida Sun-Sentinel.

The threat appears to be directed at the Panthers' veterans, who, for the most part, have failed to produce in the club's first 11 games.

"When I look at our performance so far, I don't think it's good enough," Martin told the Sun-Sentinel. "We made some moves in the off-season, and some of our veterans have to give us a better performance."

Martin believes his team needs to improve not only on its scoring, but its defensive game as well.

"We've probably given up too many," he said. "That's the biggest concern. We look at our goals against (35) and it's not just one group, it's six guys on the ice doing their job."

Among those struggling, Ville Peltonen, Brett McLean and Jay Bouwmeester have yet to score any goals, while Radek Dvorak, Richard Zednik and Stephen Weiss have just one each.

Source..

I would go hard after Bouwmeester, but so would a lot of teams. I wonder what kind of return he will fetch... Of course, signing him could very well spell the end of the Komisarek era in Montreal, but he's a huge improvement over Komi.

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I fail to see how Bouwmeister is a cleat cut improvement over Komi. Its like comparing apples and oranges. You have a bruiser, who strikes fear in opponents in Komi vs a marvel with the puck in Jay. Realistically, we would have no more bruisers on the back end if we let Komi walk, but we still have a puck mover without Jay.

This being said, If we go after anyone this year i really hope it is big Jay, as his addition gives us a D corps worthy of comparison to Detroit and Anaheim. The real problem will be that every team wants puck movers and he is an elite puck mover, thus his price will become far more than he is worth.

Probably something along the lines of:

Higgins or Pleks

Dandy / Cube ( more for salary cap purposes than as a actual benefit to the panthers)

1 Young forward with mediocre to high end potential (Dags/Chips/Patches/Maxwell)

and a high pick (1st or second), depending on the prospect is.

imo, this is getting a bit hefty for a guy that is most likely going to be gone after next year. I would prefer to go after a lesser known player to fill the role of our 4th D, possibly try to get one of NJ's Dmen once Weekes starts to drop off in exchange for Halak and something.

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To Florida:

  • Chris Higgins $1.7M (27 goals last year)
  • Steve Begin $1.057M (veteran depth, solid defensively, physical)
  • Ryan O'Byrne $0.942M (young defenseman with size)
  • Solid prospect like Carle, Weber or D'Agostini

To Montreal:

  • Jay Bouwmeester $4.875M

We have approximately $1.9M in cap room now and we're taking on $1.176M in that deal. Add Pacioretty (0.85M) or D'Agostini (0.5M) and we're still under the cap, without counting injuries.

Our team then:

Latendresse - Koivu - Tanguay (has worked pretty well so far)

A.Kostitsyn - Plekanec - Kovalev (they'll get their scoring touch)

*call up - Lang - S.Kostitsyn

Dandenault - Lapierre - Kostopoulos - Laraque

Markov - Komisarek

Hamrlik - Bouwmeester

Bouillon - Gorges

Brisebois

* Pacioretty or D'Agostini

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To Florida:

  • Chris Higgins $1.7M (27 goals last year)
  • Steve Begin $1.057M (veteran depth, solid defensively, physical)
  • Ryan O'Byrne $0.942M (young defenseman with size)
  • Solid prospect like Carle, Weber or D'Agostini

To Montreal:

  • Jay Bouwmeester $4.875M

We have approximately $1.9M in cap room now and we're taking on $1.176M in that deal. Add Pacioretty (0.85M) or D'Agostini (0.5M) and we're still under the cap, without counting injuries.

Our team then:

Latendresse - Koivu - Tanguay (has worked pretty well so far)

A.Kostitsyn - Plekanec - Kovalev (they'll get their scoring touch)

*call up - Lang - S.Kostitsyn

Dandenault - Lapierre - Kostopoulos - Laraque

Markov - Komisarek

Hamrlik - Bouwmeester

Bouillon - Gorges

Brisebois

* Pacioretty or D'Agostini

So let me get this straight.. We lose Komi in the offseason because of the Salary of resigning Boumiester.. We also lose O'Byrne who is the best Komi like player we have coming up.. We also lose Higgins and a top prospect? Also the cash that Boumister would demannd would be at the cost of more then just Komisarek.

So for me ... No thanks.

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To Florida:

  • Chris Higgins $1.7M (27 goals last year)
  • Steve Begin $1.057M (veteran depth, solid defensively, physical)
  • Ryan O'Byrne $0.942M (young defenseman with size)
  • Solid prospect like Carle, Weber or D'Agostini

To Montreal:

  • Jay Bouwmeester $4.875M

We have approximately $1.9M in cap room now and we're taking on $1.176M in that deal. Add Pacioretty (0.85M) or D'Agostini (0.5M) and we're still under the cap, without counting injuries.

Our team then:

Latendresse - Koivu - Tanguay (has worked pretty well so far)

A.Kostitsyn - Plekanec - Kovalev (they'll get their scoring touch)

*call up - Lang - S.Kostitsyn

Dandenault - Lapierre - Kostopoulos - Laraque

Markov - Komisarek

Hamrlik - Bouwmeester

Bouillon - Gorges

Brisebois

* Pacioretty or D'Agostini

It'll be a tough sell but I'd do this trade in a heartbeat.

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So let me get this straight.. We lose Komi in the offseason because of the Salary of resigning Boumiester.. We also lose O'Byrne who is the best Komi like player we have coming up.. We also lose Higgins and a top prospect? Also the cash that Boumister would demannd would be at the cost of more then just Komisarek.

So for me ... No thanks.

I'm not quite sure how you came to that conclusion. Why would you assume we would lose Komisarek at the end of the season, and then pay massive amounts to Bouwmeester (who is worth a good salary)? I think it's possible, depending on the cap, that we could resign both Bouwmeester AND Komisarek for the right cost and keep them both in Montreal, although I am sure Bouwmeester might want to test the market a little more than Komisarek.

Personally, I like JL's deal. Gainey has, in the past, gone for the big deal when he's feeling like he has a chance at winning the Cup. In Dallas he made a deal involving trading Iginla away, so I am sure it would be quite possible to deal Higgins away from Montreal if it means improving our chances at winning the Cup this season. The only thing I think might be a problem with the deal is Florida's reluctance to accept Steve Begin onto the roster without sending back a player of equal calibre to Montreal. However, Begin is an U.F.A. at the end of the season so it might not even matter.

Either way, it's fun to pretend we could have Markov/Komisarek, Hamrlik/Bouwmeester, Bouillon/Gorges for our defensemen. :o

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There's little point in arguing over this, in fact.

Our need : a 4th D to play anywhere between 18 and 20 minutes per game.

Suggested player : Bouwmeester, a 2nd D who usually logs between 25 and 28 minutes per game.

Expected price : Very high, a young 2nd D who is set to reach UFA status at the end of the season on a team in real need of help.

Conclusion : Player doesn't fit our needs as he's too good for the job, and far too pricey given the probable bidding war over his services.

No deal.

* BG looks elsewhere *

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I'm not quite sure how you came to that conclusion. Why would you assume we would lose Komisarek at the end of the season, and then pay massive amounts to Bouwmeester (who is worth a good salary)? I think it's possible, depending on the cap, that we could resign both Bouwmeester AND Komisarek for the right cost and keep them both in Montreal, although I am sure Bouwmeester might want to test the market a little more than Komisarek.

Personally, I like JL's deal. Gainey has, in the past, gone for the big deal when he's feeling like he has a chance at winning the Cup. In Dallas he made a deal involving trading Iginla away, so I am sure it would be quite possible to deal Higgins away from Montreal if it means improving our chances at winning the Cup this season. The only thing I think might be a problem with the deal is Florida's reluctance to accept Steve Begin onto the roster without sending back a player of equal calibre to Montreal. However, Begin is an U.F.A. at the end of the season so it might not even matter.

Either way, it's fun to pretend we could have Markov/Komisarek, Hamrlik/Bouwmeester, Bouillon/Gorges for our defensemen. :o

yes it would. wow.

my big problem with the deal is the call-up. pacioretty nor d'agostini are nhl ready, imho, and that puts us in a bit of hole come playoff time. at least o'byrne has some playoff experience under his belt if a trade doesn't happen.

further, at his current salary of nearly $5mil i think it's pretty safe to say that we aren't going to lock up over 10-12mil in two defensemen and expect to resign our other players in the off season.

bouwmeester is an exceptional talent and jl's trade makes a lot of sense (if i was florida i'm not sure i'd take that deal). i just think that there are other players that might come at a lower cost that could equally help our team. jordon leopold (at $1.5mil) is one example (the daily hab-it - but for the record i'm not at all in favour of trading halak right now).

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There's little point in arguing over this, in fact.

Our need : a 4th D to play anywhere between 18 and 20 minutes per game.

Suggested player : Bouwmeester, a 2nd D who usually logs between 25 and 28 minutes per game.

Expected price : Very high, a young 2nd D who is set to reach UFA status at the end of the season on a team in real need of help.

Conclusion : Player doesn't fit our needs as he's too good for the job, and far too pricey given the probable bidding war over his services.

No deal.

* BG looks elsewhere *

So you're saying we shouldn't go after him and try and win the cup because he's too good?

If you want to keep Komi so bad, trade Hammer. It would be great if we could pick up Jaybo.

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Much has been said about Bouwmeester's status with the Panthers and rumours have been ongoing that he won't re-sign with them. But where will he go and how long before he's traded? Seeing their problems putting the puck in the net and the lack of success on the ice, how long before Jacques Martin pulls the trigger?

I would go hard after Bouwmeester, but so would a lot of teams. I wonder what kind of return he will fetch... Of course, signing him could very well spell the end of the Komisarek era in Montreal, but he's a huge improvement over Komi.

If Bouwmeester is such a huge improvement over Komisarek, then how come he didn't lead the league in blocked shots? Because that's what Komi did...Mike Komisarek was 1st in blocked shots and 2nd in hits, NOT Jason Bouwmeester. We need Komi.

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If Bouwmeester is such a huge improvement over Komisarek, then how come he didn't lead the league in blocked shots? Because that's what Komi did...Mike Komisarek was 1st in blocked shots and 2nd in hits, NOT Jason Bouwmeester. We need Komi.

If Komisarek is better than Bouwmeester (which I assume is what you are saying), then why didn't Komisarek score 37 points last season, 42 points the season before that, and 46 points the season before that? :rolleyes:

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If Komisarek is better than Bouwmeester (which I assume is what you are saying), then why didn't Komisarek score 37 points last season, 42 points the season before that, and 46 points the season before that? :rolleyes:

So what you've just told me is: Bouwmeester's offensive numbers have steadily declined in the past 3 seasons...So we get young d-man who's numbers have (albiet gradually) steadily declined and on top of it all we have to give up the reigning shot-block leader of the NHL to get him? And if you don't think loosing a shot blocker is that big of a deal, then ask any coach how important those guys are, especially if you're taking a run at the championship.

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So you're saying we shouldn't go after him and try and win the cup because he's too good?

If you want to keep Komi so bad, trade Hammer. It would be great if we could pick up Jaybo.

No, as I said at least a dozen times now, I wouldn't go after him because he'll cost way too much, because he's too good.

And as I also stated, I firmly believe that we only need a small tweak to be over the top as we are contenders already. We need a 4th, not a 2nd.

I want to keep our big 3 together. Markov and Hamrlik are solid and reasonably signed for the next 2 seasons. And Komisarek will need a significant raise.

Bouwmeester wll get more than Hamrlik's salary, I'm pretty sure of it. So, if we replace Hamrlik, who is perfectly suited for the role of a 3rd D, with Bouwmeester, who's still better than a 3rd, and will be paid more, then, we'd still be eating more against our cap for the same damn job.

Sure, it would be very, very nice to have four top 2 D playing on our top 4, but this means that we would pay too much for our top 4, and cut elsewhere. There are other positions to think of, we must've invest all our extra cash in defense, even if it is major.

Again, why pay for a ferrari when you already have a porsche, a mustang and a viper ? You only need, then, a f.... camry to get to work without gazing down your weekly salary to get there.

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I would say: One giant leap forward, and two small steps back... :D

Not a giant leap forward. Bouwmeester is great if you use him 25 mins, because the fact that he can do it is the reason he's going to be paid so much. He's not supporting cast, he's a cornerstone. A team that already has its cornerstones, and is in search for a support cast won't get a guy like him, because they'd end up underutilizing him, and thus, not justifying the fact that they had to overpay to get him in the first place.

Bouwmeester would make sense in a team like Phoenix, where they actually need a 2nd D. Or LA. Or Boston. Not on a team already stacked on D.

If Komisarek is better than Bouwmeester (which I assume is what you are saying), then why didn't Komisarek score 37 points last season, 42 points the season before that, and 46 points the season before that? :rolleyes:

Because Komisarek isn't better than Bouwmeester, he is different. If you sacrifice Komisarek to get Bouwmeester, you create a hole that you didn't have before. You're not progressing.

We have puck-moving D-men coming in only a few years, we aren't in a position where we are in desperate need of this asset. We will have it for free come next year or the year after that.

What we need is a 'cheap' rental, a temporary solution who'se cost won't outweight its income.

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So what you've just told me is: Bouwmeester's offensive numbers have steadily declined in the past 3 seasons...So we get young d-man who's numbers have (albiet gradually) steadily declined and on top of it all we have to give up the reigning shot-block leader of the NHL to get him? And if you don't think loosing a shot blocker is that big of a deal, then ask any coach how important those guys are, especially if you're taking a run at the championship.

We need not to forget, too, his leadership role on this team. Many foresee Komisarek as the next Habs captain. We have no idea if Bouwmeester can provide that, and being a newcomer on the team, he woudn't be expected to. In the end, alongside the shot blocking, the hits, and the intimidating presence in general Komi brings, you'd also sacrifice your possible replacement for Saku as captain of the team down the next three to four years (I expect Koivu to re-sign, not a surprise).

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Just like the song : One step forward and two steps back...

Bouwmeester is a giant step forward and the steps back are minimal as we're trading from a position of strength, on the wing.

There's little point in arguing over this, in fact.

Our need : a 4th D to play anywhere between 18 and 20 minutes per game.

Suggested player : Bouwmeester, a 2nd D who usually logs between 25 and 28 minutes per game.

Expected price : Very high, a young 2nd D who is set to reach UFA status at the end of the season on a team in real need of help.

Conclusion : Player doesn't fit our needs as he's too good for the job, and far too pricey given the probable bidding war over his services.

No deal.

* BG looks elsewhere *

Our need is a top 4 defenseman, not a fourth defenseman. The top two pairs would be getting most of the ice time. Anaheim had Neidermayer, Pronger, Schneider and Beauchemin. Were they complaining?

I like GHC's quote as it truly sounds like you're saying that Bouwmeeter is too good for us. :lol:

Which team is better might I ask? Before or after the trade? (Why am I asking when I know the answer...)

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Bouwmeester is a giant step forward and the steps back are minimal as we're trading from a position of strength, on the wing.

If you are fine going with yet another unexperienced forward in Higgins' place, with no garanty whatsoever that he will get the job done, then, go for it but I say useless risk. We can get the quick fix on D at a much lower cost.

Our need is a top 4 defenseman, not a fourth defenseman. The top two pairs would be getting most of the ice time. Anaheim had Neidermayer, Pronger, Schneider and Beauchemin. Were they complaining?

They were lacking depth. They had these only for one season, and it forced them to let go a 40'ish point getter in Penner, then they had to waive Schneider, and might very well lose yet another one in the recent future. I don't envy them.

I like GHC's quote as it truly sounds like you're saying that Bouwmeeter is too good for us. :lol:

GHC's post doesn't deserve the credit you give him, as he purposedly ignored the reason behind my position. It is not because Bouwmeester is too good, it is because he is too good for the role we have to fill. Nuance.

Which team is better might I ask? Before or after the trade? (Why am I asking when I know the answer...)

Before the trade, the team has three legitimate scoring lines, a very good energy line and a d-corps with a glaring hole besides Hamrlik.

Just after the trade, the team has a fully stacked D-corps with no hole, and two legitimate scoring lines, an uncertain third with very little experience going in a cup run, and certain cap problems, and less youth ready to replace the players we'll ought to let go.

After the summer, we are a significantly weaker team.

Now, let me question you back :

Option A :

- We get a 2nd D to play 4th D (18-20 mins).

- We lose a 50-pt winger soon to be entering his prime, a known leader.

- We put ourselves in a negociating problem with Komisarek.

- We give away a top prospect.

Option B :

- We get a real 4th to play 4th D (18-20 mins).

- We keep our 50-pt winger.

- We don't create a conflict between Komisarek and the organization by having him compare himself to a player who'll get more than him.

- We still give away a prospect and a pick.

Which is better ?

I know the answer to this. I prefer to fix our hole on D and keep a known and useful commodity as a 50-pt scorer, friend with the other players on the team, and known leader.

Why not have both ?

Will Bouwmeester provide the points we'll lose by the loss of Higgins ? History says no. Will Bouwmeester be interested to re-sign with the Habs ? History says don't count too much on this. Will Bouwmeester be happy to see his icetime reduced from 25-28 to 18-20 ? I don't think so. Will BG do such an unecessary and costly move ? I won't hold my breath on it.

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No, as I said at least a dozen times now, I wouldn't go after him because he'll cost way too much, because he's too good.

Its a funny way of saying it, but I kind of agree.

I think i would rather have a top 3 of Markov-Komi-Hamrlik & hope someone can move into that #4 spot, than trade away top prospects knowing that its going to be Komi OR Bouwmeester come spring. Dont get me wrong, I do believe Bouwmeester is an overall upgrade on Komi - but in Markov & Hamrlik, we do already have 2 very solid all around dmen. Do we need to lose Komi / add JayBo and then likely not have enough money for other key areas? Im not sold on the idea. If we didnt have Markov, then yes Id go hard after JayBo. If we didnt have Hamrlik, Id consider it. But since we DO have both, im not sure it makes sense to get him. I think its overkill - especially when we all know Carbo will NOT roll 2 defensive units only (ala anaheim) he wants to play all 3, evenly.

The only way I would make this move (to acquire Bouwmeester) is if I was Gainey, have talked to Komi & been told he wants $6m+ - in that case, we need to let him walk. If there's any way to sign him for a slight hometown discount, Id do it & if we could get Bouwmeester as a rental this year (for not too much cost trade-wise) then id def consider that.

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Its a funny way of saying it, but I kind of agree.

I think i would rather have a top 3 of Markov-Komi-Hamrlik & hope someone can move into that #4 spot, than trade away top prospects knowing that its going to be Komi OR Bouwmeester come spring. Dont get me wrong, I do believe Bouwmeester is an overall upgrade on Komi - but in Markov & Hamrlik, we do already have 2 very solid all around dmen. Do we need to lose Komi / add JayBo and then likely not have enough money for other key areas? Im not sold on the idea. If we didnt have Markov, then yes Id go hard after JayBo. If we didnt have Hamrlik, Id consider it. But since we DO have both, im not sure it makes sense to get him. I think its overkill - especially when we all know Carbo will NOT roll 2 defensive units only (ala anaheim) he wants to play all 3, evenly.

The only way I would make this move (to acquire Bouwmeester) is if I was Gainey, have talked to Komi & been told he wants $6m+ - in that case, we need to let him walk. If there's any way to sign him for a slight hometown discount, Id do it & if we could get Bouwmeester as a rental this year (for not too much cost trade-wise) then id def consider that.

I honestly think you could get Komisarek for 3.5...It's reasonable

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I honestly think you could get Komisarek for 3.5...It's reasonable

The fact is, that Komisarek might think otherwise. We must cover our lower backs for this. I personally expects him to get anything between 4.5 and 5.5, and my official prediction is 5.25. Long-term, though.

I would never say no to a player who's "too good".

Again, if you want to use my terms on purpose, don't cut my sentences in half. It's bad faith.

Bouwmeester isn't just too good, that is illogical, he's too good for the role we need to have filled.

Besides, in a salary cap world, you have to say no sometimes to very talented players.

In a salary-cap-less league, sure, the Habs could afford Bouwmeester, Gaborik and Kovalchuk in addition to their current roster, the organization is amongst those who could spend much more than the max cap. But this isn't such a league anymore. Choices has to be made, and weighted carefully before.

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The fact is, that Komisarek might think otherwise. We must cover our lower backs for this. I personally expects him to get anything between 4.5 and 5.5, and my official prediction is 5.25. Long-term, though.

Again, if you want to use my terms on purpose, don't cut my sentences in half. It's bad faith.

Bouwmeester isn't just too good, that is illogical, he's too good for the role we need to have filled.

Besides, in a salary cap world, you have to say no sometimes to very talented players.

In a salary-cap-less league, sure, the Habs could afford Bouwmeester, Gaborik and Kovalchuk in addition to their current roster, the organization is amongst those who could spend much more than the max cap. But this isn't such a league anymore. Choices has to be made, and weighted carefully before.

The goal post keeps moving... let's move along then...

Roles change. If we get Bowmeester, we have two pairs who can play 20-25 minutes a game. What is wrong with that? NOTHING! Who gives a hoot about the numbers attached to our defensemen? It's the work they do, how well they play under the circumstances they're asked to perform under that counts! I don't care if Komisarek is second, third or fourth defenseman on my team. What I care about is how he performs when he's on the ice. He'll still be a top 4 garnering top 4 minutes, and the same goes for Markov and Hamrlik, period. Ultimately, it's the TEAM that's automatically better.

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To Florida:

  • Chris Higgins $1.7M (27 goals last year)
  • Steve Begin $1.057M (veteran depth, solid defensively, physical)
  • Ryan O'Byrne $0.942M (young defenseman with size)
  • Solid prospect like Carle, Weber or D'Agostini

To Montreal:

  • Jay Bouwmeester $4.875M

We have approximately $1.9M in cap room now and we're taking on $1.176M in that deal. Add Pacioretty (0.85M) or D'Agostini (0.5M) and we're still under the cap, without counting injuries.

Our team then:

Latendresse - Koivu - Tanguay (has worked pretty well so far)

A.Kostitsyn - Plekanec - Kovalev (they'll get their scoring touch)

*call up - Lang - S.Kostitsyn

Dandenault - Lapierre - Kostopoulos - Laraque

Markov - Komisarek

Hamrlik - Bouwmeester

Bouillon - Gorges

Brisebois

* Pacioretty or D'Agostini

AAhhh no, not bad for us, great for Panthers. Why is higgins always the odd man out. Sorry, a future 30 goal two way player, a bang and crash insurance veteran guy, a big indimidating d-man who will be pretty good in the next year or so and our famous prospects that are the future of the NHL are not worth Bouwmeester, is he even playing this year cause I havent even heard his name except for silly trade rumours

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