New Jersey Devils @ Montreal Canadiens

[GreekHockeyCoach]

right, but you do not seem to like the majority of opinions here that it was no price who lost the team two points but the anemic offense and lost special teams...

And I did say in my eyes you are blaming not criticizing - again, opinion

You quoted me as I was editing my post, I replied to the "blaming" comment.

[roy_133]

What is developing here is unfortunate. People are putting players ahead of the team. Everyone can criticize say Kovalev or Koivu for example, players that have paid their dues and have proven their worth and no one says anything. However, when something even remotely negative is posted about Price, all the diehard supporters jump on the members that are posting their thoughts.

Greek I disagree with your assessment that everyone can criticize Koivu or Kovalev and not have similar backlash. In fact, someone complained about the exact samething except saying that Kovalev was "untouchable" rather than Price the other day. It really is a matter of perception I suppose. There are lots of Kovalev fans, lots of Price fans, Lots of Koivu, Gainey, Carbo, Markov, Komisarek fans and they all basically act the sameway IMO.

[GreekHockeyCoach]

right, but you do not seem to like the majority of opinions here that it was no price who lost the team two points but the anemic offense and lost special teams...

And I did say in my eyes you are blaming not criticizing - again, opinion

Whoa there bud. Did I go off on someone that didn't agree with my opinion, did I curse at someone. No, I debated my point of view and presented my argument in a respectable manner.

[mbryson27]

And what is wrong with that, I stated my opinion, I said the say I see it, I didn't state it as a fact. This forum is for stating our opinions and if an opinion is construed as criticism then that fine and it is allowed if done within the forum rules.

As far as to your claim of me blaming Price, I'm sure he slept well last night and is not worried about any blame that any of us have put on him.

I dont believe that any player is going to be losing sleep over our debates, but thanks for the patronizing comment.

[GreekHockeyCoach]

Greek I disagree with your assessment that everyone can criticize Koivu or Kovalev and not have similar backlash. In fact, someone complained about the exact samething except saying that Kovalev was "untouchable" rather than Price the other day. It really is a matter of perception I suppose. There are lots of Kovalev fans, lots of Price fans, Lots of Koivu, Gainey, Carbo, Markov, Komisarek fans and they all basically act the sameway IMO.

Well Roy, we'll have to disagree then. Price has gotten special treatment from day 1, whether it was from the media, the GM, the coaching staff or the fans. It seems that he's off limits when it comes to criticism.

I dont believe that any player is going to be losing sleep over our debates, but thanks for the patronizing comment.

It wasn't a patronizing comment and I'm sorry if you took it that way. You're telling me that I'm blaming Price from my previous comments and I'm telling you that I was solely expressing my opinion, even that opinion was one of criticism or blame, it is my right as a member to post that.

[mbryson27]

Well Roy, we'll have to disagree then. Price has gotten special treatment from day 1, whether it was from the media, the GM, the coaching staff or the fans. It seems that he's off limits when it comes to criticism.

It wasn't a patronizing comment and I'm sorry if you took it that way. You're telling me that I'm blaming Price from my previous comments and I'm telling you that I was solely expressing my opinion, even that opinion was one of criticism or blame, it is my right as a member to post that.

I guess we are just in different camps then..I have no problem with criticizing Price....I just feel that last night is not one of those cases...it is you right to feel that way as you have stated and I have no problem with that...I just disagree with your opinion...

anyways, the game is over and our debate is now merely circular...I'll move on to the next game....there are no hard feelings from me, just enjoying the debate.

[roy_133]

Well Roy, we'll have to disagree then. Price has gotten special treatment from day 1, whether it was from the media, the GM, the coaching staff or the fans. It seems that he's off limits when it comes to criticism.

Well he's a special talent, and they usually do get a bit more "slack" than other players, whether it's fair or not it's not just Carey Price or Montreal that does this, he's also the best goaltending prospect in the world playing in Montreal so ofcourse he will be over hyped. I don't know that he's gotten special treatment from the media, I read a lot of people calling him out after the playoffs unless you mean simply interms of exposure which I guess is simply because of the fact that his name sells.

It's hard to quantify whether or not the organization has given him special treatment, I would hope they're acting soley in the organization's best interest whether that be in the immediate future or in the bigger picture going forward and not just Carey Price's best interests.

The fans, I feel give all our players special treatment at times, there are groups of fans who are extremely loyal to particular players and that goes well beyond Carey, I guess we disagree there.

What I've seen is because of the pedestal people preceive Price as being on, they're harder on him, which is unfair. Just because people think he's Patrick Roy 2.0, doesn't mean he is, and that seems to be the standard he is held to. People seem shocked that a 21 year old with 62 games of NHL experience gave up a weak goal, when in reality that's part of the package, no kid has been immune to it at that age. Price has things to work on, his focus, his consistency being his main problems IMO.

[GreekHockeyCoach]

I guess we are just in different camps then..I have no problem with criticizing Price....I just feel that last night is not one of those cases...it is you right to feel that way as you have stated and I have no problem with that...I just disagree with your opinion...

anyways, the game is over and our debate is now merely circular...I'll move on to the next game....there are no hard feelings from me, just enjoying the debate.

No hard feelings whatsoever, glad we butted heads

[GreekHockeyCoach]

Well he's a special talent, and they usually do get a bit more "slack" than other players, whether it's fair or not it's not just Carey Price or Montreal that does this, he's also the best goaltending prospect in the world playing in Montreal so ofcourse he will be over hyped. I don't know that he's gotten special treatment from the media, I read a lot of people calling him out after the playoffs unless you mean simply interms of exposure which I guess is simply because of the fact that his name sells.

It's hard to quantify whether or not the organization has given him special treatment, I would hope they're acting soley in the organization's best interest whether that be in the immediate future or in the bigger picture going forward and not just Carey Price's best interests.

The fans, I feel give all our players special treatment at times, there are groups of fans who are extremely loyal to particular players and that goes well beyond Carey, I guess we disagree there.

What I've seen is because of the pedestal people preceive Price as being on, they're harder on him, which is unfair. Just because people think he's Patrick Roy 2.0, doesn't mean he is, and that seems to be the standard he is held to. People seem shocked that a 21 year old with 62 games of NHL experience gave up a weak goal, when in reality that's part of the package, no kid has been immune to it at that age. Price has things to work on, his focus, his consistency being his main problems IMO.

Well, let's examine all of this. All this started because I made a comment that the momentum shifted after the soft goal and it has spun into this whole debate on Price. Think about it, we've had so many pages on this all because I made one negative comment about Price. Had I made a comment about Kovalev, Markov, Koivu etc. no one would have thought anything of it and in all probability, they would have added to the negativity as is the case most times when a player messes up. Now here comes a comment about Price and we have pages and pages of this thread filling up.

Given my statement above, how can you disagree with me when I say that he's gotten or gets special treatment. Any other goaltender would have been crucified in the media last year after his playoff performance yet he wasn't. Granted, he's young and he has to learn, but somewhere, someone screwed up last year when they put all this pressure on such a young goalie. I blame management for that. But now we're getting off topic.

My main point is, just look at what happened in this thread since last night when I made those comments, it turned into World War 3

I won't even mention that the backlash would have been a lot worse if I wasn't a moderator.

[MJG93]

a game vs new jersey a powerplay goal usually makes the difference between winning and losing...and another 0 for night... So whaddya do with the powerplay now...?

"If I had to watch that team play 82 games, I'd open a vein" said Marc-Antoine Godin of La Presse, feigning a slicing motion on his left forearm.

No one asked Carbo what it's like to watch Alex Kovalev play 82 games.

The coach might have pretended to slit his own throat. "

- BOONE

:lol:

[SteenIsThaFuture]

Well, let's examine all of this. All this started because I made a comment that the momentum shifted after the soft goal and it has spun into this whole debate on Price. Think about it, we've had so many pages on this all because I made one negative comment about Price. Had I made a comment about Kovalev, Markov, Koivu etc. no one would have thought anything of it and in all probability, they would have added to the negativity as is the case most times when a player messes up. Now here comes a comment about Price and we have pages and pages of this thread filling up.

Given my statement above, how can you disagree with me when I say that he's gotten or gets special treatment. Any other goaltender would have been crucified in the media last year after his playoff performance yet he wasn't. Granted, he's young and he has to learn, but somewhere, someone screwed up last year when they put all this pressure on such a young goalie. I blame management for that. But now we're getting off topic.

My main point is, just look at what happened in this thread since last night when I made those comments, it turned into World War 3

I won't even mention that the backlash would have been a lot worse if I wasn't a moderator.

I agree with you Greek, no player is above the team. I don't care if someone insults one of our players, demands he gets traded, if he actually gets traded, or if hes criticized to no end, its a main reason why I don't have "favorite players" because I cheer for the Habs, and whoever happens to be in their uniform at the time.

[roy_133]

Well, let's examine all of this. All this started because I made a comment that the momentum shifted after the soft goal and it has spun into this whole debate on Price. Think about it, we've had so many pages on this all because I made one negative comment about Price. Had I made a comment about Kovalev, Markov, Koivu etc. no one would have thought anything of it and in all probability, they would have added to the negativity as is the case most times when a player messes up. Now here comes a comment about Price and we have pages and pages of this thread filling up.

You made the comment after a game that Price was named first star, take away that one goal we'd be talking about how great he played. Let's say, for arguments sake, Kovalev score 2 goals and made one bad play resulting in a goal against, if you came on and implied he was the reason for the loss because he shifted the momentum I'm confident you'd get similar backlash.

It's a hard argument to buy, we're not talking about Price giving up the goal late in the game, we're talking about 40 minutes of momentum? Are you contending that if the Devils had scored on one of their "good" scoring chances that the momentum doesn't shift, and we win the game? If that takes away momentum why didn't one of Price's big saves in the 3rd gives us momentum?

Given my statement above, how can you disagree with me when I say that he's gotten or gets special treatment. Any other goaltender would have been crucified in the media last year after his playoff performance yet he wasn't. Granted, he's young and he has to learn, but somewhere, someone screwed up last year when they put all this pressure on such a young goalie. I blame management for that. But now we're getting off topic.

He got his fair share of the blame in the media last year, I don't know what you expected them to say, "Carey Price sucks", the general feeling was Price was one of the major reasons we lost against Philly, no one made any bones about that, not that I read anyway.

Anytime you goto an inexperienced goalie there's bumps in the road, the pressure and problems would be there whether he was 20 or 23, either way he was going to be a young goalie adjusting to a tough city and a tough league. The "bumps" in the road are greatly exaggerated though, Huet gave up as many weak goals as Carey and Huet had a habit of giving up a bad goal at bad times, so who do we go with? Get the same type of goaltending and mistakes from a 32 year old? If Halak was better than Price I'm convinced he'd be playing, and he's just as inexperienced so we'd be facing similar problems. What was the solution? Lock up a star goalie and block our kids path?

[Niflster]

Please,

People can't 'blame' Kovalev for the OT loss last night. The team played bad. They came into the first period on fire, got in a goal. Came second period however their game was non-existent...AND remained as such. They just yawned their way from place to place. Even Koivu wasn't anywhere NEAR his abilities.

If anyone really wants to play the blame game, then blame the entire team for sloppy efforts. Really, where are they??

As for no one jumping on Price, he unfortunatly happens to have more hype behind him than other 'easy' targets. Ahh, I remember when it was Theodor that was the scapegoat. Good days that hehe. It's always easy to blame one person.

The penalty Kovy took last night looked questionable to me. But like everyone else on our regular roaster, he also played sloppy. He got it regardless. Bleh... Maybe he'll be back to his last season maybe not but he's not at sole fault for the loss.

~Ze Nif

[nhlnetworkcoach]

Please,

People can't 'blame' Kovalev for the OT loss last night. The team played bad. They came into the first period on fire, got in a goal. Came second period however their game was non-existent...AND remained as such. They just yawned their way from place to place. Even Koivu wasn't anywhere NEAR his abilities.

If anyone really wants to play the blame game, then blame the entire team for sloppy efforts.

Amen! I'm going bonkers just wondering every night which Habs team is going to show up. It's becoming pretty obvious to me that this year's squad is not going to be winning any Cup this season. We might even win the East, but we won't knock Detroit or San Jose out of anything if we face them. Way too much inconsistency from night to night.

[habs-24]

Well, I've read every post in this thread, since I was here from start of the game and I don't see where anyone jumped on Price. A few of us stated our opinions. I was the one that made the initial post about momentum shifting after the soft goal and a few others followed suit. Some agreed and some didn't but no one jumped on Price.

What is developing here is unfortunate. People are putting players ahead of the team. Everyone can criticize say Kovalev or Koivu for example, players that have paid their dues and have proven their worth and no one says anything. However, when something even remotely negative is posted about Price, all the diehard supporters jump on the members that are posting their thoughts.

I cheer for the Habs, I don't cheer for individuals and if a player plays poorly in my opinion, I'll post about it without worrying if I've offended the adherents. I don't feel that anyone on this forum should walk on eggshells when offering an opinion (within the forum rules of course) on a player or of his performance.

well said man

[FirstStar]

Well, I've read every post in this thread, since I was here from start of the game and I don't see where anyone jumped on Price. A few of us stated our opinions. I was the one that made the initial post about momentum shifting after the soft goal and a few others followed suit. Some agreed and some didn't but no one jumped on Price.

What is developing here is unfortunate. People are putting players ahead of the team. Everyone can criticize say Kovalev or Koivu for example, players that have paid their dues and have proven their worth and no one says anything. However, when something even remotely negative is posted about Price, all the diehard supporters jump on the members that are posting their thoughts.

I cheer for the Habs, I don't cheer for individuals and if a player plays poorly in my opinion, I'll post about it without worrying if I've offended the adherents. I don't feel that anyone on this forum should walk on eggshells when offering an opinion (within the forum rules of course) on a player or of his performance.

Agreed!

Some people when they have a favorite player, that player can do no wrong in their eyes. I've seen it on this forum so many times with Price. I for one have been critical and hard on him, probably cos I too was a goalie. I love the kid, but if he's not playing up to par, then I'm gonna say it.

Concerning last night though, Price did let in a very soft goal, should've had his legs closed tight. He left a bit of room and the puck found it's way to the back of the net. Although, I will not say he lost us the game. Price was the one who kept us in the game through the 2nd and 3rd periods. It was sloppy play in the 2nd and 3rd (forwards not shooting), a costly penalty with less than 30 seconds left and the fact Marky was not on the ice for the PK. A few players kept up the pace, but it takes a team effort to win and that was lost after the 1st period.

That's the game I saw, don't know about the rest of you.

[kovalev47]

Well, I've read every post in this thread, since I was here from start of the game and I don't see where anyone jumped on Price. A few of us stated our opinions. I was the one that made the initial post about momentum shifting after the soft goal and a few others followed suit. Some agreed and some didn't but no one jumped on Price.

What is developing here is unfortunate. People are putting players ahead of the team. Everyone can criticize say Kovalev or Koivu for example, players that have paid their dues and have proven their worth and no one says anything. However, when something even remotely negative is posted about Price, all the diehard supporters jump on the members that are posting their thoughts.

I cheer for the Habs, I don't cheer for individuals and if a player plays poorly in my opinion, I'll post about it without worrying if I've offended the adherents. I don't feel that anyone on this forum should walk on eggshells when offering an opinion (within the forum rules of course) on a player or of his performance.

Completely agreed. I'm beginning to think some people would rather have an empty forum with no discussion at all. It seems some people feel it's fine to criticize certain players on the team or some former players and even make personal attacks about them. But if anyhing is said about "fan favorites" on the team a whole band of people come to attack the poster. This is probably another reason game trends are getting smaller.

I think people feel that it isn't fun having to walk on eggshells and have constant fights instead of actual debates. I don't see why it is so difficult for people to debate the content instead of attacking the post or poster. Roy_133 and I don't exactly agree on the issue of goaltending. But we had a good debate without any personal attacks from either side. In fact he convinced me in some parts of his viewpoints.

[Stanley25]

Here is the definition of democracy:

The term democracy is of Greek origin and means ‘the people’. It is the people who rule, the voice of the people is interpreted by the authorities in order to carry out the people’s will, not their authority. This is the difference between democracy, autocracy, plutocracy, oligarchy, bureaucracy, technocracy. It is really all the people, the citizens, who rule. And for a democracy to be truly genuine, all the citizens must have the right to express themselves, to participate.

Hence why I stated that a difference of opinion is the cornerstone of true democracy

of course, the notion of democracy doesn't really work that well in practice.

[scarhand]

price is like a rollercoaster sometimes

he will make rediculously good saves, and then a few minutes later let in rediculously bad shots

and if you have a problem with me stating my opinions about price go grab yourself a tissue and shut off your computer

professional athletes are expected to be able to take a bit of criticism, i'm sure price could care less about the bad things we say about him. he seems mentally strong enough.

quit getting so butthurt over our opinions.