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And They Call Habs Fans Whiners....


habs_10

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I must say, I watch all 4 pro games, MLB, NBA, NFL AND NHL, and absolutely no refs in any league, absolutely none, are more incompetent than nhl refs. they are so scared to get yelled at because of their tiny lil ego, they whistle once the puck touches the goalie, in the meanwhile, they stand at the far corner where they see nothing. the one ref system had less contreversies than with 2 system. Plus, what is disturbing, is the day after, no one in the league tells them how bad a job they did and punishes them like any other job would hold.

Let's see how TSN and CBC portray us as whiners and cry babies again, although God forbid it was leafs, it would be on every show for at least a week, and how can we solve these bad refs.

I was there sitting a couple of rows behind Ward and i saw the pucks were loose on both occasions. They just don't make any sense at all. Money wasted, cuz I got screwed and so did our Habs

AWFUL.

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You really should watch MLB from the 80's and compare it to today and tell me that umps don't screw pitchers on every letter high strike.

Or watch how the NFL Wideout offciails take away any physical aspect from football.

Solution is simple, take away the officating and use computers, but until that happens we have humans.

Enjoy penalties every twenty seconds of the game :lol:

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To hell with anyone who says "zomg u whiners suk it up n00b!" Even in an unbiased eye you KNOW the calls were going Carolina's way. Toronto Sports Network and Hockey Night in Toronto are terrible things to watch anyway. RDS is much better and I will watch it instead since then I will not have to deal with idiots calling us "whiners" when the Laff and Canuck fans are even WORSE.

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I don't mind if an Official is criticized if he makes a mistake, and they do make mistakes, they're only human...

but what I see here is no different than what I see most other places -- unwarranted criticism from ill-informed or completely biased people who don't know what they're talking about or simply don't care because things go against their team...

and let's be clear: just because you watch a sport does NOT mean you understand what it means to officiate that sport... and unless you've actually read the Rule book, there's no reason to think you know what the Rules are just because you watch them being enforced because you don't know why calls are being made or not made...

I must say, I watch all 4 pro games, MLB, NBA, NFL AND NHL, and absolutely no refs in any league, absolutely none, are more incompetent than nhl refs. they are so scared to get yelled at because of their tiny lil ego, they whistle once the puck touches the goalie, in the meanwhile, they stand at the far corner where they see nothing. the one ref system had less contreversies than with 2 system. Plus, what is disturbing, is the day after, no one in the league tells them how bad a job they did and punishes them like any other job would hold.
for the record, the deep Referee is supposed to stay in the corner, out of the play, with the best view of the whole zone, until the play moves to the net...

and that last sentence just tells me that you have absolutely no idea how the Officiatiing system works in the NHL, because you're 100% wrong, yet you still criticize it... not that you're alone in this incorrect assumption...

You really should watch MLB from the 80's and compare it to today and tell me that umps don't screw pitchers on every letter high strike.

Or watch how the NFL Wideout offciails take away any physical aspect from football.

Solution is simple, take away the officating and use computers, but until that happens we have humans.

here's the thing about NFL/CFL/college football officials, they aren't full-time officials, they have regular jobs and officiating is something they do on the side... I don't know if telecasts do it anymore but they used to give the full-time professions of the officiating crews...

and yes, MLB umpires were notorious for with their handling of games back in the day... actually, destroying of the umpire union actually helped the game, it got rid of a lot of bad umpires...

but it's unfair to compare the job a MLB umpire has to do with the job an NHL Referee has to do... baseball has very few 'judgement calls' -- e.g. whether a pitch is a ball or strike is NOT a 'judgement call', since the strike zone is definitively defined in the Rule book and the umpire's task is just to make a determination of which it is... it can be, and actually often is, measured to assess an umpire's performance... so it's a matter of getting a black or white call correct, ball or strike, fair or foul, runner or throw/tag... even a checked swing is supposed to be a determination of whether the batter went too far, not a judgement call... in theory, if you show a close play to a bunch of umpires, they should all come up with the same call... about the only judgement calls in baseball I can think of off-hand are when is a pop-up easy enough to handle to call an 'Infield Fly', in some Balk cases, and at which point does the yapping result in an ejection... on the other hand, Officiating a hockey game is mostly judgement calls... penalties, for example, how do you measure 'roughing'? how do you get every official to agree at which point it becomes a penalty? how is that measureable?... how do you measure the ability of a defender to beat the puck to the red line so icing should be waved off?... was the pucked 'kicked' (illegal) or simply 'redirected' (legal) into the net with the skate?... it's not black-and-white, it's black-through infinite shades of grey-to-white...

so while you can, and they do, use computers in baseball, it'd be pretty hard to do in hockey...

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I am a hockey referee I will critize the way they officiate the game we call everything too and we make mistake too and when players complain to the league we have to answer to some of the calls we made so I say that nhl should answer even more because they are supposed to be professionals out there but tonight was far from that....

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here's the thing about NFL/CFL/college football officials, they aren't full-time officials, they have regular jobs and officiating is something they do on the side... I don't know if telecasts do it anymore but they used to give the full-time professions of the officiating crews...

Fair, I'll give you that

and yes, MLB umpires were notorious for with their handling of games back in the day... actually, destroying of the umpire union actually helped the game, it got rid of a lot of bad umpires...

I wasn't even talking about that, I was referring to how the strike zone has "shrunk"

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...780/2/index.htm

but it's unfair to compare the job a MLB umpire has to do with the job an NHL Referee has to do... baseball has very few 'judgement calls' -- e.g. whether a pitch is a ball or strike is NOT a 'judgement call', since the strike zone is definitively defined in the Rule book and the umpire's task is just to make a determination of which it is...

Yes however if you watch games, you'll see that different umpires have very different ideas of what the strike zone actually is besides the rulebook defeinition.

it can be, and actually often is, measured to assess an umpire's performance... so it's a matter of getting a black or white call correct, ball or strike, fair or foul, runner or throw/tag... even a checked swing is supposed to be a determination of whether the batter went too far, not a judgement call... in theory, if you show a close play to a bunch of umpires, they should all come up with the same call... about the only judgement calls in baseball I can think of off-hand are when is a pop-up easy enough to handle to call an 'Infield Fly', in some Balk cases, and at which point does the yapping result in an ejection... on the other hand,

Good points

Officiating a hockey game is mostly judgement calls... penalties, for example, how do you measure 'roughing'? how do you get every official to agree at which point it becomes a penalty? how is that measureable?... how do you measure the ability of a defender to beat the puck to the red line so icing should be waved off?... was the pucked 'kicked' (illegal) or simply 'redirected' (legal) into the net with the skate?... it's not black-and-white, it's black-through infinite shades of grey-to-white...

Which is why I'v said on numerous times since that game that refs make so many good calls that go unnoticed, I'll agree its a hard sport to officiate, basketball too with having to see precise contact, feet down etc. Thats what the human element is though, and nobody should be surprised by it.

so while you can, and they do, use computers in baseball, it'd be pretty hard to do in hockey...

Well you could put some sort od detectors in the stick, and some in the jersey, and if ever the stick went horizontal it would touch the jersey, put detctors on the elbows for elbowing, high sticking the dector would evaluate how high the stick is and if it makes contact with any opposing player, lines play would be doable too.

However that is wayy too out there and we're decades away from that.

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I don't mind if an Official is criticized if he makes a mistake, and they do make mistakes, they're only human...

but what I see here is no different than what I see most other places -- unwarranted criticism from ill-informed or completely biased people who don't know what they're talking about or simply don't care because things go against their team...

So what you're saying is : even as ill-informed or biased as I am (because I can't speak for nobody else), the goal that gave the canes the two points was good, even though the Lat's goal was EXACTLY THE SAME KIND OF GOAL, but it was disallowed ?

Also, holding a stick in hockey, even though I haven't read the rule book of the NHL (and I won't bother) is supposed to draw a penalty. Enlighten me, is there a minimum of holding time that needs to be fulfilled before the ref calls for the penalty ? If so, how much ? Because I remember SEEING, from THOUSANDS OF MILES AWAY, in my LAPTOP, the number 79 of the Habs get his stick BLATANTLY hold in front of the refs and there was no call made.

I also saw Lapierre get tripped by ward, and at least two whistles that were faster than The Flash. And call me crazy, but there was a stop made by Price during the game, can't remember when, when I could seriously ask myself "why isn't the ref stopping the game ? Price wants to stop the puck, whistle already!".

So yeah, I may be biased, I may be ill-informed, and I may not know what I am talking about, but in this particular game, the 5 guys in the red jerseys had to beat the 5 guys in the white jerseys, plus the 3 guys that looks like zebras. For the second time. In a row.

Yeah, I know I am not on the ice, I know it was a split-second decision, but please don't tell me it's normal. Because it's not. No conspiracy there, but just horrible, horrible reffing.

You call it what you want, I call it incompetence, even keeping in mind I have no idea what the rule book looks like. It doesn't take a genius to realize the game was reffed in a disgusting manner.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, on a delayed penalty the team being penalized has to have control of the puck before the whistle is blown right? The if that is true how the hell can they say Ward had control of the puck on the disallowed goal? The puck bounced off of him before it was shot into the net. Were these the same two idiot refs from the other night? And when is Guy gonna start throwing things on the ice and getting some light shown on the horrible officiating against the Habs. It seems every night it keeps getting worse!!!!

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Correct me if I'm wrong, on a delayed penalty the team being penalized has to have control of the puck before the whistle is blown right? The if that is true how the hell can they say Ward had control of the puck on the disallowed goal? The puck bounced off of him before it was shot into the net. Were these the same two idiot refs from the other night? And when is Guy gonna start throwing things on the ice and getting some light shown on the horrible officiating against the Habs. It seems every night it keeps getting worse!!!!

Exactly, i don't need to know the rule book to know that the canes had to have posession of the puck in order for the whistle to be blown.... in which they never had, and it was right in front of the ref, if i saw it from the stands, i think he'd be able to see it in front of his face....

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Here are my 2 cents. Being a Canadiens fan as well as a Canadian hockey fan. By the looks of the officiating when an American vs Canadian team occurs I find that the offciating leans towards the American team side. I'm pretty sure we can all agree that Betman wants this sport to be U.S. dominated. It's not only from a crazy Habs fan but all over canadian media as well. Now with both 'Canes games passed, the officiating was absolutely without a doubt leaning towards the U.S. team. I could not believe my eyes. This all stems from 1993. Toronto vs L.A. I know, I know the notrious "missed" high sticking call. But it did happen. Even though I hate the leafs. That being said, I did witness a hooking call on Mats Sundin that was just insane. The two players just crossed paths and his stick hit the waist of the other player and Mats got a penalty. I hate the leafs as I mentioned, but that call was even rediculous.

Unfortunately the only thing our Canadiens and Canadian teams can do is just SCORE!! Instead of worry about diving, or "drawing" a penalty. Worry about driving that puck right through the net. So hard, so fast that it breaks bones, hurts people on it's path to the back of the net. To have no excuse, no reason to call back a goal. No reason for a loss. Prove that canadian teams take no prisoners.

Oh wait, to many "Euro's" on the Canadiens anyway.

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To hell with anyone who says "zomg u whiners suk it up n00b!" Even in an unbiased eye you KNOW the calls were going Carolina's way. Toronto Sports Network and Hockey Night in Toronto are terrible things to watch anyway. RDS is much better and I will watch it instead since then I will not have to deal with idiots calling us "whiners" when the Laff and Canuck fans are even WORSE.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Thats the funniest thing I've read on this forum.

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To grow the sport in the USA the easiest thing to do is to make the game easy to learn to new fans. That is what turns most non hockey fans off. So to assume that the refs make more calls against canadian teams vs. american teams is a joke. Officiating all around is bad. And that is why the sport does not grow as fast as it should. A casual or non hockey fan doesnt understand the game from one game to another. What was a hooking or holding once, isnt in the other. Or what was a roughing call in one game isnt in the other. I am a STH to an american team and witness bad officiating all the time. Some older refs still think this is the 80's and some just have chips on their shoulders against certain teams/players/coaches. The best thing to do is just to play your game. Dont give the refs any chance to call anything. If you put your stick in the midsection of a guy or take a couple wacks at their hands or stick, you will get called, no matter if it was called before or not.

You would think players would understand that. Just because it wasnt called before, doesnt mean it wont be called later.

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So what you're saying is : even as ill-informed or biased as I am (because I can't speak for nobody else), the goal that gave the canes the two points was good, even though the Lat's goal was EXACTLY THE SAME KIND OF GOAL, but it was disallowed ?

Also, holding a stick in hockey, even though I haven't read the rule book of the NHL (and I won't bother) is supposed to draw a penalty. Enlighten me, is there a minimum of holding time that needs to be fulfilled before the ref calls for the penalty ? If so, how much ? Because I remember SEEING, from THOUSANDS OF MILES AWAY, in my LAPTOP, the number 79 of the Habs get his stick BLATANTLY hold in front of the refs and there was no call made.

I also saw Lapierre get tripped by ward, and at least two whistles that were faster than The Flash. And call me crazy, but there was a stop made by Price during the game, can't remember when, when I could seriously ask myself "why isn't the ref stopping the game ? Price wants to stop the puck, whistle already!".

So yeah, I may be biased, I may be ill-informed, and I may not know what I am talking about, but in this particular game, the 5 guys in the red jerseys had to beat the 5 guys in the white jerseys, plus the 3 guys that looks like zebras. For the second time. In a row.

Yeah, I know I am not on the ice, I know it was a split-second decision, but please don't tell me it's normal. Because it's not. No conspiracy there, but just horrible, horrible reffing.

You call it what you want, I call it incompetence, even keeping in mind I have no idea what the rule book looks like. It doesn't take a genius to realize the game was reffed in a disgusting manner.

Very well put with the emphasis being placed in the highlighted parts!
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I don't mind if an Official is criticized if he makes a mistake, and they do make mistakes, they're only human...

but what I see here is no different than what I see most other places -- unwarranted criticism from ill-informed or completely biased people who don't know what they're talking about or simply don't care because things go against their team...

and let's be clear: just because you watch a sport does NOT mean you understand what it means to officiate that sport... and unless you've actually read the Rule book, there's no reason to think you know what the Rules are just because you watch them being enforced because you don't know why calls are being made or not made...

for the record, the deep Referee is supposed to stay in the corner, out of the play, with the best view of the whole zone, until the play moves to the net...

and that last sentence just tells me that you have absolutely no idea how the Officiatiing system works in the NHL, because you're 100% wrong, yet you still criticize it... not that you're alone in this incorrect assumption...

here's the thing about NFL/CFL/college football officials, they aren't full-time officials, they have regular jobs and officiating is something they do on the side... I don't know if telecasts do it anymore but they used to give the full-time professions of the officiating crews...

and yes, MLB umpires were notorious for with their handling of games back in the day... actually, destroying of the umpire union actually helped the game, it got rid of a lot of bad umpires...

but it's unfair to compare the job a MLB umpire has to do with the job an NHL Referee has to do... baseball has very few 'judgement calls' -- e.g. whether a pitch is a ball or strike is NOT a 'judgement call', since the strike zone is definitively defined in the Rule book and the umpire's task is just to make a determination of which it is... it can be, and actually often is, measured to assess an umpire's performance... so it's a matter of getting a black or white call correct, ball or strike, fair or foul, runner or throw/tag... even a checked swing is supposed to be a determination of whether the batter went too far, not a judgement call... in theory, if you show a close play to a bunch of umpires, they should all come up with the same call... about the only judgement calls in baseball I can think of off-hand are when is a pop-up easy enough to handle to call an 'Infield Fly', in some Balk cases, and at which point does the yapping result in an ejection... on the other hand, Officiating a hockey game is mostly judgement calls... penalties, for example, how do you measure 'roughing'? how do you get every official to agree at which point it becomes a penalty? how is that measureable?... how do you measure the ability of a defender to beat the puck to the red line so icing should be waved off?... was the pucked 'kicked' (illegal) or simply 'redirected' (legal) into the net with the skate?... it's not black-and-white, it's black-through infinite shades of grey-to-white...

so while you can, and they do, use computers in baseball, it'd be pretty hard to do in hockey...

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