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Trade Deadline Discussion Thread 2009


RicochetII

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If Olli Jokinen is available, he is our guy. Bob has to make it happen. Proven player, tough and hungry to win hopefully. Plus, on a down year, so is cheaper.

Jokinen

4th round

for

Higgins

Gorges

3rd rounder

We'd be left with Dandenault moving back to D.

He`s a proven player, just look at his record over the last 5or 6 years. This guy is just what this team needs for the big playoff push. No one knows what he can do in the playoffs but I see no reason that Olli can`t play well and contribute goals when needed and we need them badly.

Might have to pay a bit more for him with other teams likely in the hunt but, he would be well worth it I think.

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That's a good way to look at it. You have to wonder what management is forcasting based on the performance of the last 16 games. It really makes things tough on Gainey and Carbo.

I should the next 3 games be a losses I too would expect Gainey to re-evaluate the payroll too..

Good call.

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To MTL: Jokinen and a 3rd round pick in 2010

To PHX: Gorges, plekanec and a 2nd round pick in 09

I didn't want these kinds of posts unless they actually happened. :(

I read that and thought it was a done deal at first.

Discussing who is available is perfectly fine, but there are already threads for fantasy trades.

you can do all this calculating, but I wouldn't unless I was getting paid because it's a lot of work and even then you can't be sure you're close to being correct because you have to make a lot of assumptions for the precise info you don't have access to...

and joining "players on two-way contracts automatically don't have to clear waivers" in the incorrect ideas that people insist on repeating list is that "the salaries of players on Injured Reserve don't count against the cap"-- they do count against the cap... you can get cap-relief if the injured players qualify for the "Bona-Fide Long-TermInjury/Illness Exception to the Upper Limit"...

so do you really want to spend all this time 'guesstimating" cap room?...

there is no roster limit as of Trade Deadline Day... the other point:

"Not more than 50 Players signed to an SPC and not less than 24 Players and 3 goalkeepers under an SPC. Age 18 and age 19 Players who were returned to Juniors, and who have not played 11 NHL Games in one season, shall be exempt from inclusion in the 50 Player limit."

nine days to Trade Deadline Day...

It was a slow night and I realize I can't be completely accurate, but it doesn't hurt to be as informed as you possibly can. I don't mind doing it if it is useful and I like to have some idea of the possibilities that exist for our team to improve.

I had that same information about the roster restrictions available, but thanks anyway. What I was looking for was the actual CBA outlines. We currently have 54 players under contract, so there are players on either roster that are non-inclusive and I can't properly identify them without being aware of the regulations. I can guess that players on the IR don't count toward the limit, but unless those players are out for the rest of the season, we would have to move enough contracts to bring us under the 50 maximum. Knowing the exact regulations would allow us to determine if we "have to" make a move by March 4th to abide by that restriction.

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Sounds like our members of the fan forum have put a lot of thought into Joli Jokinen. Is he worth Pleks though, I like Plekanec, I like Higgins too.........Interesting to see if this one falls through.

I don't think any deal is worth P.K. Subban right now...It would be nice to see what offers might come up for him though....It never hurts to hear what the "Hot-Stove" is brewing up for our valued PK Subban.

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I guess Gainey's moves will depend on how the team performs over the next three games... If we lose all three, I doubt he makes any more moves, unless it's as a sellar for some of our U.F.A.s! If we win 2/3 or 3/3 then maybe he looks for help down the middle. :unsure:

I would tend to think that Gainey will feel more pressured to make a move if we were to drop farther in the standings before the deadline. I doubt either Gainey or Gillette will be impressed with missing the playoffs in our centennial, and I know the fans won't be impressed. Whether I agree with it or not, you have to consider that there is potential reasoning to make desperate deals. Even if it is at the expense of the next few years. This year is going to have a greater impact in the history of the club than the next few seasons and nobody at the helm would want that pock mark on their legacy.

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Would really like to see Gainey make a trade soon and not wait until TD day. Last year he did that and we ended up with nothing and lost Huet after the deal for Hossa fell through. Not saying they were linked but I still think teams should do more dealing before the TD day. The main reason i'm saying this is because I'm an income tax officer and can't take the day off...grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

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7.5 days to go :

From the NHL.com trade deadline page, http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=409842

Senators GM Brian Murray

"I get lots of calls, I make lots of calls," Murray said. "Through the week there will be a fair number of contacts with other managers. The teams that are like me, on the borderline, will be talking about what we can do with the unrestricted guys.

"We'll try not to let happen what's happened with a couple of guys in the past. That is, go away in July for nothing."

So he is speaking openly about looking to unload players such as : Neil, Kuba and Gerber

Boston's Chiarelli talked about how the Eastern Conference-leading Bruins are actively looking for depth and appeared to give credence to the fact that backup goalie Manny Fernandez might be in play this week.

Vancouver : Finally, Mike Gillis told the world that he made his big move with the addition of Mats Sundin. He doesn't foresee the club adding any other big pieces.

Glen Sather, NYR : "We don't want to trade any young players... we're not up against the cap, there are lots of things that can happen."

Vancouver appears to be off the market this year.

Boston is shopping for depth. Fernandez being the means to acquire it is logical, but speculation.

NYR is investigating their options.

Burke made quite a few newsworthy points.

* Burke said he was offered a trade on Tuesday, a deal interesting enough to have his staff begin the vetting process.

* He also said that an unidentified team made a pitch for young defenseman Luke Schenn, perhaps the only untouchable player on Toronto's roster. Burke's respond was a classic: "It was a short conversation. I asked him, 'You want me to trade a Top 5 pick, someone who might eventually be able to play, for an 18-year-old who is playing 22-minutes a game right now?'"

* Leafs defenseman Tomas Kaberle likely isn't going anywhere. Kaberle has waived his no-trade deal to facilitate a trade, but Burke said he doesn't see it happening. "It has to be a deal that blows my doors off and that hasn't happened."

* Speaking of no-trade clauses, Burke was characteristically blunt: "No-trade contracts are coach killers. I hate them. They suck."

* Burke also said he has no intentions of pulling the plug on this season for a shot at the No. 1 pick, which he believes will be junior superstar John Tavares from the London Knights. "We'd have to lose a lot more games for that to happen," he said. "If I could make a trade today that would put us in the playoffs, I would do it right away. That's my job. Those aren't the kind of deals that are presenting themselves to us. Our job is to win as many games as we can."

Toronto may have a deal in the works. Kaberle and Schenn are likely off the table.

Will the Penguins make a move before the deadline?

GM Ray Shero says the answer is no, insisting the firing of Michel Therrien and the naming of new coach Dan Bylsma is the season-saving move he had up his sleeve.

This isn't a direct quote, but it's worth noting that Shero may not make any moves. As much as the outside world feels the Pens must, it's possible it may not happen.

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It was a slow night and I realize I can't be completely accurate, but it doesn't hurt to be as informed as you possibly can. I don't mind doing it if it is useful and I like to have some idea of the possibilities that exist for our team to improve.
well, for that to be true, you would also have to do it for the other team(s) as well... :P

frankly, the team can get below the cap by demoting players if absolutely necessary, so it seems like a lot of work that might not even come into play...

I had that same information about the roster restrictions available, but thanks anyway. What I was looking for was the actual CBA outlines. We currently have 54 players under contract, so there are players on either roster that are non-inclusive and I can't properly identify them without being aware of the regulations. I can guess that players on the IR don't count toward the limit, but unless those players are out for the rest of the season, we would have to move enough contracts to bring us under the 50 maximum. Knowing the exact regulations would allow us to determine if we "have to" make a move by March 4th to abide by that restriction.
how did you get 54?... I think guys on IR would count, guys who have been suspended, e.g. Pavel Valentenko, would not...

once again, almost certainly not an issue that would bar a transaction... if you're bringing in a guy who is among your 23 best players, what difference does it make that the guy who was #50 before that acquisition is released from the Reserve List -- they'll still have to pay him until he's bought out...

I think you're making it more complicated for yourself than it needs to be -- and this from someone who actually likes the minutiae of it all :D

edit:

7.5 days to go

still over eight days... either people are miscounting or they think the deadline is other than 3:00 pm ET, March 04....

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well, for that to be true, you would also have to do it for the other team(s) as well... :P

frankly, the team can get below the cap by demoting players if absolutely necessary, so it seems like a lot of work that might not even come into play...

how did you get 54?... I think guys on IR would count, guys who have been suspended, e.g. Pavel Valentenko, would not...

once again, almost certainly not an issue that would bar a transaction... if you're bringing in a guy who is among your 23 best players, what difference does it make that the guy who was #50 before that acquisition is released from the Reserve List -- they'll still have to pay him until he's bought out...

I think you're making it more complicated for yourself than it needs to be -- and this from someone who actually likes the minutiae of it all :D

edit:

still over eight days... either people are miscounting or they think the deadline is other than 3:00 pm ET, March 04....

At the time, I added the rosters of both teams and came up with 54 players under contract. That doesn't account for whether they are signed to an SPC or not. I don't have that information.

I don't mind complicated, I find it entertaining. ;)

It's after noon here so I was a little off, but trade deadline day begins at 12:01am next Wednesday. That's when the roster restriction is removed, and I believe teams are allowed to exceed the cap by a certain amount as well. i can't recall when the team has to be back under the limit, it could be at the deadline, or 24 hours after. I can't recall.

7 days 11 hours and 30 minutes as of this submission. ;)

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At the time, I added the rosters of both teams and came up with 54 players under contract. That doesn't account for whether they are signed to an SPC or not. I don't have that information.

I don't mind complicated, I find it entertaining. ;)

It's after noon here so I was a little off, but trade deadline day begins at 12:01am next Wednesday. That's when the roster restriction is removed, and I believe teams are allowed to exceed the cap by a certain amount as well. i can't recall when the team has to be back under the limit, it could be at the deadline, or 24 hours after. I can't recall.

7 days 11 hours and 30 minutes as of this submission. ;)

I agree with Wayne, you're far too complicating Ric :lol:

However, I'm entertained as well :lol:

P.S. Great job with this thread.

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At the time, I added the rosters of both teams and came up with 54 players under contract. That doesn't account for whether they are signed to an SPC or not. I don't have that information.
by 'both teams', I guess you mean the Habs and the Bulldogs...

there are problems with a couple of the things you said and hopefully by explaining why they are 'wrong', you'll understand where you're getting it confused (I tried writing something else for 15 minutes and I'm not sure it explains it any better :blink: )

"We currently have 54 players under contract" -- the 'we' should apply to the Habs only (I would have said the Habs/Canadiens specifically to avoid confusion about who 'we' is)... if you're concerned with the NHL CBA, you need to think of the Habs and the Bulldogs as two separate entities... so this statement is incorrect...

"... they are signed to an SPC or not" -- 'under contract' means signed to an SPC, they're synonymous since 'SPC' stands for 'Standard Player Contract'... there is an NHL SPC and a different AHL SPC, but the NHL CBA only deals with the NHL SPC... so if X players are under contract, X players have an SPC...

it appears you started by errorneously lumping together players from the two teams, then tried to pick guys out on a basis that didn't make sense...

you're making it more complicated than required, and it's unnecessary since the Habs have nowhere near 50 players under contract...

It's after noon here so I was a little off, but trade deadline day begins at 12:01am next Wednesday. That's when the roster restriction is removed, and I believe teams are allowed to exceed the cap by a certain amount as well. i can't recall when the team has to be back under the limit, it could be at the deadline, or 24 hours after. I can't recall.

7 days 11 hours and 30 minutes as of this submission. ;)

okay, so you're counting down to the start of the day, instead of the actual deadline, for a reason that wasn't stated -- and once again really isn't necessary...

technically, things could happen at 12:01 am, but the people involved aren't going to be up in the middle of the night doing deals, it's still a business to them... that's why the deadline isn't at midnight, or even noon ET, to make it reasonable for people in all the time zones...

as far as trades are concerned, the roster limit restriction is a non-issue for most teams... if they make a trade before deadline day that puts them over the active roster limit, they just send guys down 'on paper', until they can be recalled on Mar 04... the players usually don't actually go down...

teams CANNOT exceed the cap to make a trade -- otherwise the trade will not be approved... they can file the paperwork to make the moves to make the cap room at the same time as the trade is called in and chances are the processing of the trade will take place after the other moves...

these are all little technical points that very rarely come into play... honestly, if any of these points were to be an issue, they would have been resolved well before we ever get wind of the proposed deal...

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Just curious, are we sellers or buyers? What does everyone think?

Sellers, are you nuts, we are buyers, no question, just a matter of what we can get, and not get beat out last second by some over bidder. Look at pittsburgh now, gave up all those players for a 3 month rental, now look at em, if the didnt have the two leading scorers in the nhl on the team they would be last place

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This is a funny site for any Eklund haters, and to discredit anyone who actually uses his links as a reference:

http://hockeybuzzhogwash.com/

Incorrect Rumors since January 2008: 333

Correct Rumors since January 2008: 10

Success Rate since January 2008: 2.9%

EDIT: Apparently hockeybuzz is trying to sue them now.

Lol, the guy should drop the site, come join our forum, and give out these stats after trade deadline, every year.

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Lol, the guy should drop the site, come join our forum, and give out these stats after trade deadline, every year.

Whats even funnier is Dirk Hoag, a famous hockey statistician ran some probabilities in which he did this:

I’ve come up with a set of trade deadline scenarios which are likely to be more accurate than the 3.6%** Eklund's running as of this writing.

** It was 3.6 at the time

1. I begin with a list of all players eligible for Unrestricted Free Agency this summer, from teams currently outside the playoffs.

2. I eliminated players who have cleared waivers on their way down from the NHL, are on injured reserve, or have already been traded this year (i.e. Brad May and Wade Brookbank).

3. For each player, they are given 17 “rumors”. One indicating that they’ll stay with their current team, and the other 16 have them going to a team currently in the playoffs.

By the end of Trade Deadline Day, each of these 1,768 possibilities will be weighed against the results. Now I realize that simply dumping that list on you all at once is a bit much, so in the meantime I’ve crafted something that can dish out these little nuggets of inside hockey scoop one morsel at a time…

The Forechecker's Mysterious NHL Rumor Generator

.

A popcorn vendor heard that Samuel Pahlsson will be part of a blockbuster deal with the Montreal Canadiens (e2) 2/25/2009 19:36:07

I guess that I will have be right at around the 5% range.

---------

http://www.kuklaskorner.com/index.php/otf/...ous_rumor_mill/

This will be jokes if him throwing darts blindly at the wall works better than Eklund :lol::lol:

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