gracie12 Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 He wasn't really fired. His contract had expired and had not been renewed because the organization simply decided to go another direction (possibly giving Guy Boucher a chance?). I mean, the writing was on the wall already, Gainey having given he and Wilson the opportunity to pursue a job elsewhere last month. I would agree that this is the best way to explain things. I think Gainey felt the direction was different & probably had fully planned this for the better part of last year, but while many of us fans thought Lever was brought up to help, or be tutored in coaching in the NHL, i think gainey brought up lever to see if there was anywhere the guy did fit into our plans and obviously, based on todays news, the answer is no. Good luck Don, you seemed like a class guy. People will bring up Lever's Calder Cup, but honestly, the point is to hoist the Stanley Cup. I don't give a damn one way or another how many Calder Cups the Bulldogs win, provided the Habs are successful. Well and i think that while Lever made some good coaching moves on the way to the win, if it werent for things like Price's MVP performance, there would have been no cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
js2 Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 Well and i think that while Lever made some good coaching moves on the way to the win, if it werent for things like Price's MVP performance, there would have been no cup. The Bulldogs didn't win just because of Prices "MVP" performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glory_Days Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 The Bulldogs didn't win just because of Prices "MVP" performance. That's no what he wrote.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catt-_mtlc Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 I don't know what in the world Gainey can do without getting bashed all the time. When the season ended there were people in here calling for Gainey's resignation or firing for a lousy 100th Centennial, then the same bashers wanted wholsale changes to be made to make this team better. Well now it's hapening, first with the coaches and coaching staff at both levels. I know Don Lever won a cup for Hamilton and no one is disputing that he is not a good coach, but I think that Gainey wants continuity all across the board when it comes to the coaches. He wants everyone to be on the same page from the AHL, ECHL and the NHL club. All those who want change are now getting it. With change comes moves that you may not like but that's life get over it. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't just have changes to certain things without affecting other things, it's just the process of doing things. Just let Gainey do the things he thinks he needs to do without bashing him on every move. This will probably be Gainey's last season if he doesn't get things turned around anyway. So we might as well see how the off season and regular season plays out. The team is better today than it was 5-10 years ago, everything can't happen over night. I want a championship team as quickly as the next Habs fan, but I'm also a realist, I know that you don't go to bed one night and a transformation occurs where you wake up and the team is 180 degrees better. If Gainey was not running the ship, then we would only be bashing someone else. In the end I really don't see where it gets us. I know we all like to vent out our fustrations, but I know after I type it out it still doesn't change anything. I still have to wait for things to happen, even if they seem like they are at a snails pace. This season will be better than last years team, because the hype of the 100th Centennial is over and theplayers who have had bad years will not duplicate them again this season, and by point total we were not that bad. I still have confidence in Bob to get the job done, but it just doesn't make any sense to see every move microscoped like we have been doing. I bet if the delivery guy took a different route to get to the Bell Centre, there would be an outcry at to what motovatd him to change is course. Right on. I believe you're right if Gainey wasn't GM the fans would be bashing someone else. I also believe that this is a make it or break it year for Bob. With all these players as free agents if he doesn't come through and sign these guys, land a big free agent or make a blockbuster deal in the off season it could spell the end for his job as GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chromedome_mtl Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 Right on. I believe you're right if Gainey wasn't GM the fans would be bashing someone else. I also believe that this is a make it or break it year for Bob. With all these players as free agents if he doesn't come through and sign these guys, land a big free agent or make a blockbuster deal in the off season it could spell the end for his job as GM. Here we go again with somebody teasing me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catt-_mtlc Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 Here we go again with somebody teasing me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madsprite18 Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 And just two names that have nothing to do with Lever. Well Boudreau and Julien both developed numerous prospects for the NHL, both went deep in the Calder Cup playoffs a number of times and both were said to not have enough experience to coach an NHL team, both were seen as purely AHL coaches - I think that fits Lever pretty well. (Oh and by the way both eventually won the Adams award and had winning NHL records ) (Not to mention Julien was the one that first brought the Habs back into playoff contention with a fairly weak team, after developing many prospects in Hamilton and was fired with a winning NHL record in a season where there were many serious Hab injuries). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madsprite18 Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 Their source (http://www.thespec.com/News/BreakingNews/article/587421) gives a pretty biased take on the whole thing, but you've got to admit it would have been nice to have a little bit more in the way of an explanation. Maybe it's forthcoming? Why 'biased"??? - at least until we hear the other side of the story - in the meantime, say what you will about them, but neither Lever nor Wilson has ever minced words about the team, the players or themselves - if they were given a reason they would state it - considering both have been loyal foot soldiers to the Habs, have developed numerous prospects and had great success at the AHL level (which does help develop players too!) they deserved better! I am still waiting for what Gainey has to say about all this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madsprite18 Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 I don't know what in the world Gainey can do without getting bashed all the time. When the season ended there were people in here calling for Gainey's resignation or firing for a lousy 100th Centennial, then the same bashers wanted wholsale changes to be made to make this team better. Well now it's hapening, first with the coaches and coaching staff at both levels. I know Don Lever won a cup for Hamilton and no one is disputing that he is not a good coach, but I think that Gainey wants continuity all across the board when it comes to the coaches. He wants everyone to be on the same page from the AHL, ECHL and the NHL club. All those who want change are now getting it. With change comes moves that you may not like but that's life get over it. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't just have changes to certain things without affecting other things, it's just the process of doing things. Just let Gainey do the things he thinks he needs to do without bashing him on every move. This will probably be Gainey's last season if he doesn't get things turned around anyway. So we might as well see how the off season and regular season plays out. The team is better today than it was 5-10 years ago, everything can't happen over night. I want a championship team as quickly as the next Habs fan, but I'm also a realist, I know that you don't go to bed one night and a transformation occurs where you wake up and the team is 180 degrees better. If Gainey was not running the ship, then we would only be bashing someone else. In the end I really don't see where it gets us. I know we all like to vent out our fustrations, but I know after I type it out it still doesn't change anything. I still have to wait for things to happen, even if they seem like they are at a snails pace. This season will be better than last years team, because the hype of the 100th Centennial is over and theplayers who have had bad years will not duplicate them again this season, and by point total we were not that bad. I still have confidence in Bob to get the job done, but it just doesn't make any sense to see every move microscoped like we have been doing. I bet if the delivery guy took a different route to get to the Bell Centre, there would be an outcry at to what motovatd him to change is course. I hope you are right but you are forgetting his treatment of Julien - same deal - Julien was the first coach to turn this team around and actually make a bit of a playoff run - that was with a pretty weak team - we in Hamilton all knew he was on a short leash from the start as BG wanted either Jarvis (who was hopeless as an AHL coach) or eventually Carbonneau as coach - the minute Julien started to struggle with an injury racked lineup and troublesome cliques (Theodore et al) he was let go - even though he had a winning record!!! He has done fairly well since (and so did his former protege Ryder once he was coaching him again!) It is interesting you say they are getting things in line - they tried that with Jarvis who stressed a similar system in Hamilton and he bascially destroyed the chances of a stellar Bulldog team - maybe they should get the NHL philsophy in line with the farm team's philosophies - both Julien and Lever/Wilson's systems were more effective with the prospects we had/have. Yes we want change but it needs to start in the NHL where things have been breaking down - in the AHL and ECHL things have been going well in terms of the team but more importantly in terms of developing prospects - check out the number of Bulldog players from the last 5 or 6 years who have become full time NHLers and successful ones at that! - many of them no longer with the Habs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs-24 Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 i for one dont understand this decision at all, 2 years removed from a calder cup and doing a damn fine job with all the young talent.. i just dont know i guess its all to get a french guy in Hamilton now, sheeeesh... because thats what its all about these days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
js2 Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 i for one dont understand this decision at all, 2 years removed from a calder cup and doing a damn fine job with all the young talent.. i just dont know i guess its all to get a french guy in Hamilton now, sheeeesh... because thats what its all about these days Gotta please all the french speaking fans and media in Hamilton! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madsprite18 Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 Gotta please all the french speaking fans and media in Hamilton! Didn't the media like him here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs-24 Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 Gotta please all the french speaking fans and media in Hamilton! its not because of that duhhh, its just the way this organization thinks top to bottom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amp73 Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 This season will be better than last years team, because the hype of the 100th Centennial is over and theplayers who have had bad years will not duplicate them again this season,............. 1/2 the players are UFA 's and may not be back The one's who are currently signed for next year are the 3rd and 4 th liners Somehow BG let 1/2 the team become UFA's at the same time . Not sure if that was planned or just so happened but right now he's got a farm team for an NHL team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs-24 Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 1/2 the players are UFA 's and may not be back The one's who are currently signed for next year are the 3rd and 4 th liners Somehow BG let 1/2 the team become UFA's at the same time . Not sure if that was planned or just so happened but right now he's got a farm team for an NHL team probably was planned knowing Bob, big master plan that is leaving a hugeeee gap in the team and will require 10 years to fix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronixx Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 gainey was my hero lol now i see him as a messy butcher what on earth is he doin to my team i think he should hold a press conference this is total crap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyMan86 Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 You guys have to think of it this way. The players that lever taught in the AHL were brought up to the NHL. The problem was...the players lever taught were not solid enough two way players. Think of the hamilton bull dogs as the mini habs the babies until they are brought up to the habs the adults. so the things they are taught as babies(the AHL) come into play when they are adults(brought to the NHL) yea yea im pretty sure everyone knows this maybe some don't. So i am GUESSING the reason why lever was fired was because BG was not happy with the AHL players coming up were playing aka two way hockey they were either good at offence or defence (talking about the forwards) and non of them really had good two way hockey abilities. well this is why I THINK lever was fired anyways lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drydenforprimeminister Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 Welcome to our Montreal to New Jersey flight; No smoking please and feel free to get up and use the washroom, you won't miss much while you're gone, we are going to grind, grind, grind so fasten your seat belt, some of our spoiled players are in for a rocky ride. I don't think Bob has gone into random mode, he is a thoughtful and methodical guy, always was. I felt very bad for Carbo and you can almost smell the politics in this move and the very small amount of patience this team has displayed for coaches lately. I have to agree that Julien got shafted as did Carbo, but in both cases there was rot in the room and I believe that the posters here want to ignore that. The Ribero-Theo-Dagenais saga was as embarassing as the past seasons Kostitsyns-Price-Hamerlik issues and both coaches were punished for their inability to control the off ice behaviour of their players. As yourself: What Would Scotty Do? Onto Lever: So....you have top 20 draft pick who can't get out of the minors (Chipchura), you have two young defenceman get called up, one for his size (O'Byrne) one for his offence (Weber) and frankly neither one of them had a hot clue how to play the pro game. Both Kostitstyns have been/are complete defensive liabilities despite spending time in Hamilton, especially Sergi. What does that say about what they're learning in Hamilton? They need a guy to teach them to follow orders and make them accountable. That wasn't Lever. Lever was a great x's and o's guy, nice guy, but not a leader of men. I would love to see your basic marine corp. drill sergeant get the gig and teach these guys how to win. I too am hoping to see more consistency between the Dawg's and the Habs a la Detroit and see a much harder-nosed two way team develop. Let's face it: Look at the Habs Top 5 young players and their top 10 prospects: See an Ovechkin or Malkin in there? Nope....Bob is going to try buy some REAL talent in about 6 days and the rest of them are going to learn to grind it out. Look for this team to be much less exciting than two years ago, much harder to play against and likely more successful, especially in the playoffs. I think there will be some surprised fans when they see who Gainey gets in the UFA lottery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manatee-X Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 Why 'biased"??? - at least until we hear the other side of the story - in the meantime, say what you will about them, but neither Lever nor Wilson has ever minced words about the team, the players or themselves - if they were given a reason they would state it - considering both have been loyal foot soldiers to the Habs, have developed numerous prospects and had great success at the AHL level (which does help develop players too!) they deserved better! I am still waiting for what Gainey has to say about all this! I only said 'biased' because of exactly what you pointed out: they only gave one side of the story. I'm not knocking the writers, since in all likelyhood the official line from Habs management was 'no comment'. I was just pointing out that the article only contained comments from Lever's point of view. I'm not knocking Lever either... by all accounts he's done a pretty good job. I think that Guy has a similar coaching style to Jacques Martin in that they both are both defensive minded coaches who preach discipline. I think Gainey wants the young guns from the farm to be ready to play the style of the big team when they get there rather than be lost out on the ice, trying to find their way. This is the way Detroit utilizes their farm system and finally in a long time the Habs are starting to get the ship turned around. A very good point. It wouldn't surprise me if this had something to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madsprite18 Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 Welcome to our Montreal to New Jersey flight; No smoking please and feel free to get up and use the washroom, you won't miss much while you're gone, we are going to grind, grind, grind so fasten your seat belt, some of our spoiled players are in for a rocky ride. I don't think Bob has gone into random mode, he is a thoughtful and methodical guy, always was. I felt very bad for Carbo and you can almost smell the politics in this move and the very small amount of patience this team has displayed for coaches lately. I have to agree that Julien got shafted as did Carbo, but in both cases there was rot in the room and I believe that the posters here want to ignore that. The Ribero-Theo-Dagenais saga was as embarassing as the past seasons Kostitsyns-Price-Hamerlik issues and both coaches were punished for their inability to control the off ice behaviour of their players. As yourself: What Would Scotty Do? Onto Lever: So....you have top 20 draft pick who can't get out of the minors (Chipchura), you have two young defenceman get called up, one for his size (O'Byrne) one for his offence (Weber) and frankly neither one of them had a hot clue how to play the pro game. Both Kostitstyns have been/are complete defensive liabilities despite spending time in Hamilton, especially Sergi. What does that say about what they're learning in Hamilton? They need a guy to teach them to follow orders and make them accountable. That wasn't Lever. Lever was a great x's and o's guy, nice guy, but not a leader of men. I would love to see your basic marine corp. drill sergeant get the gig and teach these guys how to win. I too am hoping to see more consistency between the Dawg's and the Habs a la Detroit and see a much harder-nosed two way team develop. It seems like everyone is getting the blame except where it should be - Gainey. Lever developed most of these very well - but I've seen many of them regress under Gainey/Carbonneau - Plekanec, Higgins, Komisarek - they came out of AHL strong enough to play regular shifts and were very strong LAST season - This past season all of them took a step back - you mention Sergei - well he spent little time here at all -22 games one season and 16 the next (and frankly had a lousy attitude when he was here) - he could have done with more time under Lever. A. Kostitsyn was weak when he came to the AHL and Lever and the Dogs finally brought him around to be able to be a strong NHLer - since then he has also regressed. It is interesting how many of the non-Lever AHL players were inconsistent or weak - Kovalev, Koivu, Latendresse (who bypassed the NHL altogether!) O'Byrne was probably promoted too quickly and Weber is extremely young - he managed fine when he did come up but to expect him to be NHL ready this season was insane -(when he does come up he will be more than ready thanks to Lever/Wilson - they have had him working on his defensive game - he will be stellar!). Look at Lapierre, who has spent many games under Lever/Wilson and was sent down numerous times for reworking - probably one of our most consistent, spirited two way players. Look at D'ags. Chipchura certainly was more consistent than our "stars" and should have been granted a bigger role. Don't blame Lever/Wilson my friend - blame the Habs and the vets they are the ones that are screwing up the excellent players being sent to them. Not to mention solid players they never gave a chance - JP Cote - an excellent stay at home defenceman, Ferland, maybe even Locke. Just wait to you see the players they worked with this season - we had a ridiculously young team and we were strong almost all year - noone expected anything from the BUlldogs this year and we had a strong winning season and you will soon see how well they developed the players!!! Gainey should fix things at the top first - clear up the off-ice problems, call down the vets who aren't performing, utilize and train his two young goalies more efficiently. He should have also had the class to make a statement beyond "we are moving in a different direction" and made it clear to Lever and Wilson that they would not be rehired - in person!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
js2 Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 Didn't the media like him here? Yeah, I'm sure they did. I was referring to the reason to hire french speaking coaches in Montreal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
js2 Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 Onto Lever: So....you have top 20 draft pick who can't get out of the minors (Chipchura), you have two young defenceman get called up, one for his size (O'Byrne) one for his offence (Weber) and frankly neither one of them had a hot clue how to play the pro game. Both Kostitstyns have been/are complete defensive liabilities despite spending time in Hamilton, especially Sergi. What does that say about what they're learning in Hamilton? They need a guy to teach them to follow orders and make them accountable. That wasn't Lever. Lever was a great x's and o's guy, nice guy, but not a leader of men. I would love to see your basic marine corp. drill sergeant get the gig and teach these guys how to win. Lever did a great job developing our young players. Ever notice how all the young players that have been brought up started out great and then once they got a good dose of Carbo they started to struggle? And Chipchura has been playing great hockey here in Hamilton but for some reason the upper management in Montreal don't like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourtrax Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 The Ribero-Theo-Dagenais saga was as embarassing as the past seasons Kostitsyns-Price-Hamerlik issues and both coaches were punished for their inability to control the off ice behaviour of their players. What are you referring to? Price's occasional penchant for partying? Gasp! A young, wealthy hockey player likes to have a good time? Stop the presses! The Kostitsyns and Hamrlik were cleared by a POLICE INVESTIGATION of any wrongdoing. Please tell me what the 'issue' is here, because I don't see it. Chris Chelios also liked to party during the day, we traded him, and boy did we pay for that trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstStar Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 What are you referring to? Price's occasional penchant for partying? Gasp! A young, wealthy hockey player likes to have a good time? Stop the presses! The Kostitsyns and Hamrlik were cleared by a POLICE INVESTIGATION of any wrongdoing. Please tell me what the 'issue' is here, because I don't see it. Chris Chelios also liked to party during the day, we traded him, and boy did we pay for that trade. People forget quickly don't they weep? It's always been this way in Montreal, specially with players coming from out of province. Pretty much ever Habs player we've had in the past have enjoyed our nightlife and have broken curfew. Chris Chelios had his issues with the nightlife-a friend of mines father was a cop back then, apparently they were always going to bars to break up a fight between Chelios and some loudmouth or investigating accusations that Chris was going after young girls. Lafleur was always seen in the clubs after curfew, even Carbo admitted (on a CBC special-Habs Centennial) to enjoying the nightlife and didn't respect his curfew. My gawd, I could go on and on, even teams like Boston, Chicago and New York loved to come here and play, just so they could have a night in the famous Chez Pare strip joint... And we're talking the 70's here! The only difference between Price, Komi, Kos Bros, Hamrlik and the past Habs players, is that the old timers didn't let their game slip. It was no secret back then that Chelios loved the nose candy, Lemaire love the booze, Lafleur loved the women and booze. The only reason this is an issue now-a-days is cos of advanced technology(everyone has cel phones with cameras) and the media, due to the centennial. As for Bob, I'll never forget the night we ran into Foster Gillett on Crescent Street, right after an embarrassing loss to the leafs (last March-approx). He told us we were in for some real changes this summer. He was right, I guess he knew then that his father was considering selling back then... In fact, I think it came out several weeks later. We don't know know what goes on behind closed doors, maybe Bob's hands were tied with Gillett as the big boss. It sure looks like things are changing quickly, let's face it, we're about a week away from the July 1st deadline and not one player has been signed! I loved Jarvis, as a faceoff man, you couldn't get any better than him. As a defensive coach, I always questioned that move. I'm excited for the new season to start, I'm excited for the Habs to start signing players and looking to free agents. Having the Molson's back behind the drivers seat, just might be the edge we needed to sign the big names. The Molson's are no strangers to Montreal, we won a lot of cups under their ownership. It's bound to go up cos I can't see us getting much lower. Specially when you consider the talent we had this season. The kos bros should stay imo, it's still too soon to write em off. The Sedin's have been in Vancouver how long? And are finally at the point where (they believe) they can start asking for the big bucks. Stamkos, who was a star in the Jr's, didn't do what everyone expected him to do once he hit the NHL. Sometimes it takes several years for a player to develop... Both Steve Shutt and lafleur had mediocre beginnings (spent a lot of time in the press box), until they were paired up with P. Mahovlich, to become the dynamic due we remember today. Some of the moves have me scratching my head (like I've been doing since Bob took over), but it looks like the organization is heading in a different direction. Lever did great in Hamilton, but to say he properly prepared his players for the big league, has yet to be proven. Only a handful who've come out of Hamilton, have really excelled. Apart from Lapierre, Komi and at times Halak, we haven't had a real force come up from Hamilton in several years. We've had a lot of promise, only a handful have stayed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstStar Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 Just to add to my post... I think the fact that we're about a week away from the July 1st deadline and no one has been signed yet, leads me to believe that something big is going to go down shortly after or during draft night. Expect a different team next year people, different faces and not just the coaching staff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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