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Franzen Resigned For 9-10 Years


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Guest ForeverGuyLafleur
Lol. 9-10 years and 'hometown discount' is almost an oxymoron.

Im quite surprised Holland did this deal. I mean, regardless of money, a 10 year contract in the current economic situation, seems like madness.

I agree with you: I'm quite disappointed to see Holland go that way when we he shouldn't. Tthe Red Wings are always good at negotiating, so I don't see the point of signing him for that long.

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Ken Holland sees a dynasty in Franzen, Zetterberg and Datsyuk and he has now built it. I'm not sure how long it will last. Lidstrom and Rafalski are old and getting older, and this means they likely won't have enough cash for Hossa.

at 10 years though they could have signed Franzen for a small amount of cash, even 4.5 per.

Lol. 9-10 years and 'hometown discount' is almost an oxymoron.

Im quite surprised Holland did this deal. I mean, regardless of money, a 10 year contract in the current economic situation, seems like madness.

Especially since Detroit probably has the worst "current economic situation" of any major city in NA.

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What do they have that's comparable to the automakers' collapse?

They don't have anything, the whole Florida market was built around the housing bubble, theres no products in this area.

On topic however....

the numbers are in via Damien Cox, 3.95 mil for the next 11 years, making a grand total of 43.5 mil. Franzen will be 40 at contracts end.

Cox also anlayzes that unless he takes a huge discount, Hossa will not resign in Detroit.

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I see more teams going this route...Long term at less money...really 3.95 million is not bad for this kid == he is likley going to score 35 plus goals... the next 6 or 7 years will be his best years...players today are in that much better shape that their prime years take them into and past their mid 30's its the last 3, 4 or 5 years that COULD be a problem.

If he was like 23, 24 or 25....I would say an excellent deal.

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Another contract that exploits a loophole in the CBA. I guarantee this loophole gets fixed next CBA.

Basically what happened is they tried to fix one loophole and created another. The original problem was that they didn't want a team to be able to basically 'go for it' one season by bringing in a bunch of free agents at a discount one year in return for paying them extra the following years. The fix was to make cap hit the average of the contract, but this opened up a whole bunch of problems when players frontload long-term deals. The main problem is that if a player retires or gets bought out or goes to the minors in the "cheap" years of his deal, there is a bunch of money that never gets counted against the cap.

The owners anticipated this to a point, and it was the reason for that "if you sign a deal over the age of 35, you count against the cap no matter what", to prevent some situations. An example of what could happen if they didn't have this is us signing Schneider in the summer to a 10 year deal, which pays him 5 million for 2 years and then league minimum for the rest. Since he's guaranteed to retire within 2 years (or we could send him to the minors if he stuck around), he gets a nice paycheck in his final 2 seasons, but our cap hit is less than 2 million for both years he's playing and nothing for the rest. Rich teams could use this to spend over the cap essentially, but the "over 35" rule makes it so that this situation would actually result in that cap hit for the next 10 years.

What they didn't anticipate was guys signing these massive deals well under the age of 35 that go until they're 40 or whatever. I think they'll patch it in one of a few ways: either just get rid of the "average of the contract" rule and make the cap hit whatever the player actually makes; change the "over 35" rule to apply to all players this age, regardless of what age they signed the contract; or try to patch all the loopholes individually (this is the wrong way to go about it, that's what they did last CBA and everytime they patch a loophole they open up 10 new ones).

Personally, I hope they just abolish the "average of contract" rule.

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They don't have anything, the whole Flord an economy jiida market was built around the housing bubble, theres no products in this area.

This doesn't make sense, an economy can't be built on a housing bubble since you can't export it. Sure, it can build value in people who invest in real estate, but how does the fact that there is a housing bubble provide jobs, get people to move there, etc? Also, a housing bubble can't develop without and underlying economy to make people want to purchase houses there.

And as for they don't have anything, a decent summary from Wikipedia:

Several large companies are headquartered in or around Miami, including but not limited to: Alienware, Arquitectonica, Arrow Air, Bacardi, Benihana, Brightstar Corporation, Burger King, Celebrity Cruises, Carnival Corporation, Carnival Cruise Lines, CompUSA, Crispin Porter + Bogusky, Espírito Santo Financial Group, Fizber.com, Greenberg Traurig, Interval International, Lennar, Norwegian Cruise Lines, Perry Ellis International, RCTV International, Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines, Ryder Systems, Seabourn Cruise Line, Telefónica USA, TeleFutura, Telemundo, Univision, U.S. Century Bank, and World Fuel Services. Because of its proximity to Latin America, Miami serves as the headquarters of Latin American operations for more than 1400 multinational corporations, including AIG, American Airlines, Cisco, Disney, Exxon, FedEx, Kraft Foods, Microsoft, Oracle, SBC Communications, Sony, and Visa International.

Miami International Airport and the Port of Miami are among the nation's busiest ports of entry, especially for cargo from South America and the Caribbean. Additionally, Downtown has the largest concentration of international banks in the country located mostly in Brickell, Miami's financial district. Miami was also the host city of the 2003 Free Trade Area of the Americas negotiations, and is one of the leading candidates to become the trading bloc's headquarters.

Villa Vizcaya, built in 1914, is a popular tourist attraction

Tourism is also an important industry in Miami. The beaches, conventions, festivals and events draw over 12 million visitors annually from across the country and around the world, spending $17.1 billion.[38] The historical Art Deco district in South Beach, is widely regarded as one of the most glamorous in the world for its world-famous nightclubs, beaches, historical buildings, and shopping. However, it is important to note that Miami Beach is a separate city from the City of Miami.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami,_Florida#Economy

Not to say they haven't been hit, but I'd be less worried than Detroit which is built almost solely on the auto industry, which not only is suffering due to the economy, but which has been pushing their luck for some time now.

Im quite surprised Holland did this deal. I mean, regardless of money, a 10 year contract in the current economic situation, seems like madness.

I don't really agree with this either though. I mean since the worst of this is expected to be roughly the next year or so, a 2 or 3 year deal is equally as risky. In fact, you could argue that the low price tag of the deal is just what teams need to do to get the current recession.

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This doesn't make sense, an economy can't be built on a housing bubble since you can't export it. Sure, it can build value in people who invest in real estate, but how does the fact that there is a housing bubble provide jobs, get people to move there, etc? Also, a housing bubble can't develop without and underlying economy to make people want to purchase houses there.

And as for they don't have anything, a decent summary from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami,_Florida#Economy

Not to say they haven't been hit, but I'd be less worried than Detroit which is built almost solely on the auto industry, which not only is suffering due to the economy, but which has been pushing their luck for some time now.

I don't really agree with this either though. I mean since the worst of this is expected to be roughly the next year or so, a 2 or 3 year deal is equally as risky. In fact, you could argue that the low price tag of the deal is just what teams need to do to get the current recession.

Maybe saying nothing was too much exaggeration. Obviously there are companies and industries here, but isn't Florida like 48th or 49th in terms of production? (I'm not sure if the term GDP applies to states on their own).

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I don't really agree with this either though. I mean since the worst of this is expected to be roughly the next year or so, a 2 or 3 year deal is equally as risky. In fact, you could argue that the low price tag of the deal is just what teams need to do to get the current recession.

Time will tell. Ive yet to see any long term year deals that have after looked good a few years into the contract - and I am frankly shocked that arguably the best GM in the league just pulled a "garth snow" I also am sitting with the school of economists who believe the worst will NOT be over in 2 to 3 years. God I hope they are wrong, but I see no reason why they will be - but that, of course, is for another thread.

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Time will tell. Ive yet to see any long term year deals that have after looked good a few years into the contract

Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin? There hasn't exactly been a huge sample of 10+ year deals, and so far other than maybe DiPietro I haven't seen any that so far made me think "big mistake".

- and I am frankly shocked that arguably the best GM in the league just pulled a "garth snow"

Well Snow had nothing to do with the DiPietro deal, but anyways, this is a different situation.

DiPietro was a case of he wasn't worth 4.5 million in the first place, but they figured he will be worth way more than that. In this case at least the player is already proven and you're signing him for less (per year) than he's worth. And while there are definite risks, it's a brilliant cap move because you get a great cap deal in the early years and the later years you can likely afford to use minors, buyout, or ask for retirement to get rid of the cap hit if he goes down hill. I'd really only think of it as a 7 or 8 year deal, because the last years are so easy to bury (the loophole I discussed earlier).

I also am sitting with the school of economists who believe the worst will NOT be over in 2 to 3 years. God I hope they are wrong, but I see no reason why they will be - but that, of course, is for another thread.

If we had seen deflation as those economists predicted by now I'd be inclined to agree with them, but so far the extremely pessimistic predictions have been, well wrong. This is a bad recession, but it doesn't seem to be that different than the one back in the early 80s, although we'll probably recover more slowly.

In any case, even if things go way worse than generally predicted, 4 million isn't an insane salary to take on. If it gets to the point where this will be unaffordable, the league will be bankrupt anyways and the contract will be voided.

The bigger concern is overall Detroit is taking on a lot of salary with all these players. Going forward with Detroit's local economy (which is in major trouble regardless of the general economy), is Detroit really a team that can afford to spend near the cap? Detroit could find themselves a small market team in a few years.

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Lol. 9-10 years and 'hometown discount' is almost an oxymoron.

Im quite surprised Holland did this deal. I mean, regardless of money, a 10 year contract in the current economic situation, seems like madness.

Jedimas:

Mike Illitch, the owner of the Red Wings, Detroit Tigers and the Fox Theatre in Detroit, made his fortune on Little Ceasars Pizza. He is not nearly as dependent on the auto industry fortunes as some others are. Matter of fact, if it were not for people like him, Detroit and the rest of Michigan would be in a much larger pickle than it currently is. He has been huge in the revitalization of downtown Detroit and helping add to its growing economic diversity.

And I like what Illitch and his people have done, putting people to work who might otherwise not have jobs and just be hanging around the streets of Detroit. I had the pleasure of meeting one such person at a Detroit Tigers game last summer, and we talked extensively during a rain delay. Sure, he could have taken the woe be me excuse, but he did something about his life. He told me how happy he was that he got the job, which he has held for over 12 years at Joe Louis Arena, and how it carried over to Comerica Park once the ballpark opened in 2000. He told me how happy he was to not hang around the streets of Detroit and get into trouble.

Sure, Little Caesars doesn't pay a lot of money for its regular workers (perhaps a little more than minimum wage), but they have offered all kinds of franchising opportunities.

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If we had seen deflation as those economists predicted by now I'd be inclined to agree with them, but so far the extremely pessimistic predictions have been, well wrong. This is a bad recession, but it doesn't seem to be that different than the one back in the early 80s, although we'll probably recover more slowly.

The problem, Graeme is that while we keep comparing the current situation to the 80s or even the great depression we have never lived in a time where more people were in personal debt. Like I said, I hope they are wrong but I still believe we are in for a very rough ride ahead. Again, we're off tangent so I'll drop the discussion.

Jedimas:

Mike Illitch, the owner of the Red Wings, Detroit Tigers and the Fox Theatre in Detroit, made his fortune on Little Ceasars Pizza. He is not nearly as dependent on the auto industry fortunes as some others are. Matter of fact, if it were not for people like him, Detroit and the rest of Michigan would be in a much larger pickle than it currently is. He has been huge in the revitalization of downtown Detroit and helping add to its growing economic diversity.

And I like what Illitch and his people have done, putting people to work who might otherwise not have jobs and just be hanging around the streets of Detroit. I had the pleasure of meeting one such person at a Detroit Tigers game last summer, and we talked extensively during a rain delay. Sure, he could have taken the woe be me excuse, but he did something about his life. He told me how happy he was that he got the job, which he has held for over 12 years at Joe Louis Arena, and how it carried over to Comerica Park once the ballpark opened in 2000. He told me how happy he was to not hang around the streets of Detroit and get into trouble.

Sure, Little Caesars doesn't pay a lot of money for its regular workers (perhaps a little more than minimum wage), but they have offered all kinds of franchising opportunities.

Larry, Im well aware of Illitch's contributions (i grew up in Milwaukee so heard plenty about the michigan economy).

Im not sure why: a) you directed the history lesson at me and b ) what that has to do with giving someone a long term deal.

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The problem, Graeme is that while we keep comparing the current situation to the 80s or even the great depression we have never lived in a time where more people were in personal debt. Like I said, I hope they are wrong but I still believe we are in for a very rough ride ahead. Again, we're off tangent so I'll drop the discussion.

But as long as that debt is controlled, it doesn't really affect the short term recovery. Of course that debt wasn't controlled and caused a lot of problems in the financial sector, but I think the worst of that is over, and we managed to control it. Again, if things were that dire, how have we not seen deflation, or even close to deflation, yet? I'm worried long term about both personal and government debt increasing, it will lead to huge problems, but I don't think it's going to be a major hurdle in the current recession.

In any case, it's kind of irrelevant because even if the cap drops in half, a 4 million cap hit is still affordable (although he'll obviously be overpaid). If the cap ever dropped to something that like 20 million, the whole league would likely be bankrupt.

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These long-term contracts are stupid. It kills the sport. I wouldn't even want to re-sign Komisarek to a 10-year deal, 5-year absolutely.

I was also hoping that Franzen would hit the market. Plekanec has been struggling all year long and the Mule would have been a great replacement.

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