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Is Bettman Anti Canadian?


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I dont know if this is the proper place for this but I keep hearing this notion that Bettman wants to have no part in any franchise establishing itself in another Canadian Market? What do you think?

It's not that he's anti-canadien.

The hockey market is well & strong in canada.

It'S not in parts of U.S.A.

Bettman's mission in life is to grow the game in the states/south

Whether anyone likes it or not,is his sense.

Even though a few teams are financially broken,in the hole etc...going bankrupt does not fizz him the least.

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No he is not, and I am sick and tired of hearing this *****. I'm going to copy and paste my post from another thread:

The reasons for teams like Phoenix and Nashville is simple, you see a large population, who if they become interested, could become a large source of revenue and you attack it.

Bettman's plan is still in its early stages, the owners knew EXACTLY what they were getting into from the start when they hired him. If any of them thought this was going to be a 5 or heck even a 10 year process they are idiots. If anyone is to blame for the owners losing money, it is the owners themselves.

The US population is enormous, and while their hockey interest isn't as large as persay a Hamilton market, if you CREATE the interest, it becomes a better long-term solution.

I live in the States and I can honestly say I've seen progression over the last few years. Hockey is slowly creeping up on basketball in terms of interest.

The problem is in order to create interest in a team, you need 2 things:

1. To win

2. National media coverage

#1 is hard to acheieve, for obvious reasons, so when you move a team to a market with next to no interest, its a risk you have to take that they will turn the franchise around (almost always a relocated team sucks because extended losing streaks leads to loss of revenue, there are exceptions such as a talented franchise such as the Nordiques). Bottom line is, a new customer to the sport will not come out to see a product where their team gets their butts handed to them night in and night out, for several years at a time.

The critics will say, "Well why risk getting new customers, when you have all these customers up North begging for hockey??!!" well the answer is a long-term one. You need to establish roots in the communities. You need parents telling their kids about that great Lightning cup run they saw when they were 16. Creating a fanbase is not a 5 year fix, it is a 15 maybe even 20 year process, but when all is said and done due to the large population of potential customers in comparison to Canadian markets, its for the best.

#2 This is a Bettman flaw IMO, he thought Versus was going to become bigger than it was (as in not located on a back burner channel is 65-70% of homes) and couldn't get a deal done with ESPN, albeit one where ESPN was basically ripping the NHL off (it was a free TV deal basically). One of the biggest reasons why I think the NHL is on a rebound, is because ESPN talks shows and Sportscenter are paying attention to hockey now, which is an effect of seeing how much the masses attend hockey games, which is a product of stablishing good regional markets for hockey teams and getting a very high number of gate intakes and attendance numbers.

--------------

To add onto this, I think because of the economic situation, a Canadian team is more likely than ever because its a better short-term solution.

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Bettman is anti-canadian. I bet you 5$ that bettman can't even skate or score on raycroft.

Do you think Stern is a good basketball player? What about Selig, could he hit a long ball off the worst SP in baseball (Roy Halladay :P ), I wonder how good Goodell is.

Bettman isn't anti Canadian, he's a business man and he loves what the Canadian teams are doing for the league right now. If there was another Canadian market that made total sense, had a new arena that upto NHL standards there would be a team there.

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Bettman is anti Canadian and it is so flipping obvious it is not funny.

First a rebuttal: though versus paid a lot for broadcasting rights to the NHL, NBC pays nothing. Bettman continues to pander to the big american network. Not only are games scheduled to suit NBC. But the outdoor classic, that started as an outdoor game between Canadian clubs, has now been turned into a US only spectacle for NBC. I doubt we will ever see a Canadian team play in the outdoor classic...

do you think the CBC could get a sweet deal like NBC?? After all the CBC broadcasts the games coast to coast every saturday night in prime time.

It irks me that he is such a liar. "we don't run out of cities" yeah who you think you are fooling Gary. The Nhl bailed on winnipeg, Quebec city, hartford, and minnesota in a hurry. Now He does all he can to save a team that has lost over $200M and had 13 years to develop a fan base because it was his baby and it is a team in the states.

Another lie - Gary was saying all was cool with the league the nhl was in good shape ,but now apparently the league has been running the coyotes since november. So either Gary was lying when he said all things are okay with the league or he is lying now.

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"Anti-Canadian" is a bit of a funny term to use... <_< I mean, I don't follow the exploits of Gary Bettman closely, but I hardly think he's anti-Canadian. I think he's just driven by blind business/financial incentive. He sees the expansion into the U.S. market is instrumental to the future success of the NHL. I can agree that U.S. success will be important to the future successes of the NHL, but I do think another team in Canada is deserved. Stupid? Yes. Anti-Canadian? Probably not.
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OUI...he is and at times he may be anti-hockey :D

Bettman is an idiot

Where was he when Winnipeg,Quebec and Hartford were moving. Was he in the city blocking any move, trying to do all he could to save those team like he did in Nashville and Phoenix........NO

Is his dream of southern hockey working or is it becoming a nightmare. Teams in Nashville, Atlanta, and florida will fail. Carolina got very lucky thats all. Give them the whalers record and that team would be moving also

Change the rules to attract newer fans in the meantime lost the fans you had

KEN DRYDEN FOR COMMISH

hey , I did spot Bettman at a local nightspot here in Hartford. I took a video.............

thlaflacasbellacas.gif

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Is there a petition to get Gary Buttman out of hockey? The guy has prostituted the league to American investors with a house of cards for money, to cities that have no hockey roots. He has turned his back on Canadians, and Union States, for lack of a better word, who are the heart of the game, take us away and what are you're TV ratings Gary?...We're approaching 20 years of ineptitude, hockey needs a new commissioner.

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  • 3 weeks later...
I dont know if this is the proper place for this but I keep hearing this notion that Bettman wants to have no part in any franchise establishing itself in another Canadian Market? What do you think?

no, he is just pro-money. There is more opportunity to make money in an untapped market than an oversaturated market.

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no, he is just pro-money. There is more opportunity to make money in an untapped market than an oversaturated market.

Indeed! If some of the markets could of held a hockey team, then why did they fold up or move away?

It seems the opinions of most of the people here is that there shouldnt be hockey in the US. But it takes time for a sport to take root. Especially in southern areas. Most people here never played it or watched it until they were exposed to it. I cant speak for all the cities, but most of the teams are finally getting a solid base down here. (Even as far south as Tampa and Sunrise, despite the fact there is no ice except in our drinks). Just because some of you want all 30 teams in Canada, doesnt mean thats how it should be.

Oh wait, I forgot the last discussion on this. It was about removing 4 or 5 teams to begin with, then moving another 4 or 5 to Canada. Some probably wouldnt be happy unless it was all condensed down to just the original 6 again. But to make sure all 6 were in Canada. If the other teams south of the border are making money and has a good fanbase, then just suck it up. Its not just a Canadian sport anymore. Others are enjoying it too.

Maybe another good question is if Canadians are anti-american?

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Indeed! I cant speak for all the cities, but most of the teams are finally getting a solid base down here. (Even as far south as Tampa and Sunrise, despite the fact there is no ice except in our drinks). Just because some of you want all 30 teams in Canada, doesnt mean thats how it should be.

Maybe another good question is if Canadians are anti-american?

Tampa and Florida give tickets away and can't turn a profit. Columbus has such a bad deal they could make the finals and still not turn a profit. Atlanta is a big revenue drain. So all is not okay with the NHL despite what buttman was spewing earlier this season.

Despite what bettman says about corporate money, when it comes down to it, it is gate revenue that makes the league run. last time I checked all six canadian teams had excellent attendance and none of those seats included free beer and parking.

I don't think there is anyone here advocating for moving 30 teams to Canada.

But Hamilton has been pushed around by the NHL several times:

1) 1925 Tigers moved to NY.

2) Colorado rockies moving Hamilton was front running and the team moved to Jersey instead.

3) 1991 Ron Joyce (Tim Hortons) had an excellent bid and Tampa should have never got that franchise. hamilton had a 5 year old arena, the hockey fans, and corporate money.

That is off the top of my head and doesn't include all the times Hamilton has been used by an owner to get a better deal in their current location.

I think Canadian fans are getting fed up with having our game run out of NY, pandering to a US network that doesn't pay a cent, and watching franchises go south when there are untapped markets here.

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I don't think Bettman is anti Canadian, really. He has a vision of a wider market and income.

But what he has done, and is doing is effing dumb. It is fine to market the sport to the US and tap into that market. My question in that regard is, did and does it have to be done on the account of Canadians? Did all these Canadian teams really have to move south?

Couldn't there be like 10-15 teams in Canada and another 15-20 in the states?

While the teams in the states and more importantly, southern US, are building up the market, the Canadian teams with a proven income record could cover up that balance needed.

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I don't think Bettman is anti Canadian, really. He has a vision of a wider market and income.

But what he has done, and is doing is effing dumb. It is fine to market the sport to the US and tap into that market. My question in that regard is, did and does it have to be done on the account of Canadians? Did all these Canadian teams really have to move south?

Couldn't there be like 10-15 teams in Canada and another 15-20 in the states?

While the teams in the states and more importantly, southern US, are building up the market, the Canadian teams with a proven income record could cover up that balance needed.

Name me 4-9 Canadian markets that could not only support an NHL team right now (arena, money, investors, population) but on top of that be so profitable that they are contributing significantly to help balance the struggling team's down south.

Is there a petition to get Gary Buttman out of hockey? The guy has prostituted the league to American investors with a house of cards for money, to cities that have no hockey roots. He has turned his back on Canadians, and Union States, for lack of a better word, who are the heart of the game, take us away and what are you're TV ratings Gary?...We're approaching 20 years of ineptitude, hockey needs a new commissioner.

The owners are the ones who did that, Bettman didn't act alone. Ask the Molson's (or any owner) if they were complaining cashing all those expansion fee cheques while the NHL tried to capitalize on the Gretzky factor.

Gary is basically the face of the board of governors but he's not making big decisions like this on his own, that's for sure.

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Maybe another good question is if Canadians are anti-american?

uh, well I wouldn't say canadians are anti-american. Such generic statements are never accurate. But when it comes to hockey canadians are extremely passionate, possessive and irrational from time to time. Hockey is more than a sport here. It is a way of life, an identity, a running thread from community to community which creates a bond if only in the mind. And this hockey identity is inexplicably tied to our national identity (see coaches corner). So most stereotypical traits of canadians are traditionally projected upon hockey players but then the sight of america co-opting the sport and having 5 times as many teams as there are in canada instead of making many canadians proud of the game's growth it can instill fear in the diehards that the game will not be the same as it will turn into another nba or nfl which are both seen as being 'less respectful' leagues in these canadians' minds. So you could say there is a definite subtle bigotry at work here but it is only due to such an intense love.

I think Canadian fans are getting fed up with having our game run out of NY, pandering to a US network that doesn't pay a cent, and watching franchises go south when there are untapped markets here.

This is a bit disingenuous. Two of the next plausible hockey markets in canada were unable to support teams back in the 90's. It's tough to say whether or not they would be able to do so these days but I wouldn't put money on it. Beyond those two cities you'll be hard pressed to find many markets that could support a team. Hamilton is the only plausible market and it would very likely steal much of Buffalo's business and a little of Toronto's business (which is sort of irrelevant because they are so huge) so the league wouldn't be benefitting. If anything, they would be worse off to have 7 canadian teams if the canadian dollar lost a lot of its value once again.

I don't think Bettman is anti Canadian, really. He has a vision of a wider market and income.

But what he has done, and is doing is effing dumb. It is fine to market the sport to the US and tap into that market. My question in that regard is, did and does it have to be done on the account of Canadians? Did all these Canadian teams really have to move south?

Couldn't there be like 10-15 teams in Canada and another 15-20 in the states?

While the teams in the states and more importantly, southern US, are building up the market, the Canadian teams with a proven income record could cover up that balance needed.

No there couldn't. Canada's major markets have been tapped. Beyond these 6 teams you'll be lucky to squeeze out two more teams. But anything beyond that (and potentially including the 7th and 8th teams) and you'll have teams losing lots of money without the potential to grow because the market is only so big. Meanwhile in the states the belief is that there is much more room to grow because the population is so vast. In theory the US should be able to support 60 teams - if they were supporting their teams on the same level as canadians. Take Nashville for example. This is a team which has been plagued by financial troubles for some time now. But they have a population that is greater than Calgary, Edmonton and Ottawa. So if these three teams can be profitable why not Nashville? These aren't my thoughts but the league's thoughts. If the NHL were able to grab the public's interest in the lesser-fan states, they would be sitting on a gold mine. I am not sure if it is possible and may indeed be a losing strategy in the long run but then again I know next to nothing about business so I tend not to question what these guys do with their money.

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"This is a bit disingenuous. Two of the next plausible hockey markets in canada were unable to support teams back in the 90's. It's tough to say whether or not they would be able to do so these days but I wouldn't put money on it. Beyond those two cities you'll be hard pressed to find many markets that could support a team. Hamilton is the only plausible market and it would very likely steal much of Buffalo's business and a little of Toronto's business (which is sort of irrelevant because they are so huge) so the league wouldn't be benefitting. If anything, they would be worse off to have 7 canadian teams if the canadian dollar lost a lot of its value once again. "

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There will not be an empty seat in the ACC. Toronto's numbers at the gate will be the same. 8 million people in the golden horseshoe can support at least 2 teams. If Buffalo depends on canadian fans to make a go, too bad so sad. With the new border restrictions in place, there will be a drop in Canadian visits to Sabres games anyway. I didn't hear a huge outcry from Canadiens fans that western Quebeckers and eastern ontarians would stop supporting the Habs when a team was put just across the border in Kenora. Yeah if the canadian dollar falls the teams will drop revenue. However, currently the Canadian dollar has gained on the greenback and is sitting at 90 cents US. If the CAD stays near there, the Canadian franchises will again be sitting pretty.

No there couldn't. Canada's major markets have been tapped. Beyond these 6 teams you'll be lucky to squeeze out two more teams. But anything beyond that (and potentially including the 7th and 8th teams) and you'll have teams losing lots of money without the potential to grow because the market is only so big. Meanwhile in the states the belief is that there is much more room to grow because the population is so vast. In theory the US should be able to support 60 teams - if they were supporting their teams on the same level as canadians. Take Nashville for example. This is a team which has been plagued by financial troubles for some time now. But they have a population that is greater than Calgary, Edmonton and Ottawa. So if these three teams can be profitable why not Nashville? These aren't my thoughts but the league's thoughts. If the NHL were able to grab the public's interest in the lesser-fan states, they would be sitting on a gold mine. I am not sure if it is possible and may indeed be a losing strategy in the long run but then again I know next to nothing about business so I tend not to question what these guys do with their money."

By the same logic, if Americans cared as much for soccer as the English than MSL would rival MLB in terms of revenue. So lets expand the MLS hey Anchorage and Honolulu have no major league sports teams.

Maybe just maybe the NHL should place franchises where there is already an interest in the sport and continue building a following. Hartford, Fargo?, Seattle, rather than put them in places where there is very little interest in the game

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There will not be an empty seat in the ACC. Toronto's numbers at the gate will be the same. 8 million people in the golden horseshoe can support at least 2 teams. If Buffalo depends on canadian fans to make a go, too bad so sad. With the new border restrictions in place, there will be a drop in Canadian visits to Sabres games anyway. I didn't hear a huge outcry from Canadiens fans that western Quebeckers and eastern ontarians would stop supporting the Habs when a team was put just across the border in Kenora. Yeah if the canadian dollar falls the teams will drop revenue. However, currently the Canadian dollar has gained on the greenback and is sitting at 90 cents US. If the CAD stays near there, the Canadian franchises will again be sitting pretty.

Where is the logic in this bolded statement?

Fixing one problem market (Phoenix) by moving the team to the "golden horseshoe", while creating another troubled market (Buffalo) doesn't make much sense to me. Why not move the team somewhere else that they can be successful and have two good markets?

I suspect I already know the answer... selfishness. It's not about what's actually best for the league, just what's "best" for bandwagoning Canadian hockey fans.

Also, this CAD talk is very short-sighted.

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OUI...he is and at times he may be anti-hockey :D

Bettman is an idiot

Where was he when Winnipeg,Quebec and Hartford were moving. Was he in the city blocking any move, trying to do all he could to save those team like he did in Nashville and Phoenix........NO

Is his dream of southern hockey working or is it becoming a nightmare. Teams in Nashville, Atlanta, and florida will fail. Carolina got very lucky thats all. Give them the whalers record and that team would be moving also

Change the rules to attract newer fans in the meantime lost the fans you had

Took the words right out of my mouth. This guy is a complete moron who caters to the American franchises (I still can't believe he's blocking a move from Phoenix) and is bending over for NBC. I know he wants network exposure but to cave in to NBC and schedule back to back games in the finals shows how completely weak he is. I don't see Stern the comish of the NBA ever doing this. Hell they're not even buying the games!

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Took the words right out of my mouth. This guy is a complete moron who caters to the American franchises (I still can't believe he's blocking a move from Phoenix) and is bending over for NBC. I know he wants network exposure but to cave in to NBC and schedule back to back games in the finals shows how completely weak he is. I don't see Stern the comish of the NBA ever doing this. Hell they're not even buying the games!

Caters to American teams when face it the majority don't give a rats ***** about hockey......

The man is living in a dream world. What a joke this league has become and its a damn shame. I love this game with all my heart. I'm pushing 50 and still play goal. It is sad to see hockey being played in half empty arenas down south when I know I could see games being played in a packed house in Quebec , Winnipeg or Hamilton. The NHL always made their money on gate revenue and smaller arenas were fine before the salaries got out of hand. Salaries NEED to come back to reality. The NHL will never get the TV money the other big sports get and with that in mind the salaries need to reflect that. If the players can't accept that then they should learn baseball and move on. The owners need to stop demanding new arenas in order to hold a team hostage or threatning to take it away.

I am Canadian ( from St.Georges) and living in Hartford. There are plenty of American cities that love their hockey teams and sadly plenty that don't care and theres one city that would love their WHALERS back. Its time we true hockey fans DEMAND our game back. Put hockey back in cities that should never have lost their teams and put hockey in cities that really want a team. Less than 500 people showed up for a save the coyotes rally :blink: AND YET THERE IS BETTMAN IN PHOENIX

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH

BETTMAN MUST GO

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Caters to American teams when face it the majority don't give a rats ***** about hockey......

You realize the amount of Americans watching the Finals is double that of Canadians. Sure there are plenty more Americans in the country, and if we would do what % of the country watches it would probably favor Canada, but right now hockey is on a big uprise in the States.

Also for the last time, the owners are approving of what Bettman is doing, blame the owners as much as you blame Gary.

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