Manatee-X Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 No, a retired player should at least finish his long-term career with his team and accomplished a championship. He did neither. I like him but I will go with a No on this one. Lafleur didn't finish his long-term career with his team. Should his number not be retired? Trevor Linden never won a championship. He never won a scoring title, or any major award for that matter. Should his number not be retired by the Canucks? Like Forever Habs #10 said, there are really no defined criteria for retiring a jersey. I know what you're saying, and especially on this team there are so many deserving players that it's hard to say Saku deserves it more than some of the others from the dynasty teams that have yet to be honoured. The thing is, though, those eras had their superstars and those players have already been retired. Yes, there are other who also played great and put up huge amounts of points, but we can't exactly retire the entire 70s dynasty team. Retiring jerseys, for me at least, isn't about points or awards or even championships. Instead, it's about saying to a player "you were so important to this franchise, to your teammates, to this city, that we can't imagine letting just any player wear the number that you made famous". I think Linden in Vancouver was actually a great example, the fans there love him in the same way we love Koivu. I was at his retirement ceremony, and they didn't spend much time talking about his point totals. Instead, they talked about his character, his skill, his heart and his charity work. Do any of those things not describe Saku perfectly? They showed a bunch of videos of important moments in his career, and amongst all the highlight reel and overtime winning goals the two biggest cheers from the crowd were for a video of a shift where he fought in the corners for about 80 seconds against three guys and one where he was visiting sick kids at the BC Children's Hospital. Again, sound familiar? Sorry this was such a long post, but for Koivu it's not about just having heart and his charity work and all that. It's that combined with his skill, combined with his great on-ice leadership of such a lacklustre team for so many year, and most of all combined with the sheer emotional connection he's had with the city of Montreal and its fans. Even amongst all of the Habs greats, he's a special player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElCapitan_mtl Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 Why? 10 years as captain, longer than any other except Beliveau 10th highest scorer in franchise history (and if he wasn't being ousted like this, he'd have climbed higher) An entire career of bringing everything he has to every game he played, every shift.... Surviving cancer and providing Canadiens fans one of the most memorable moments in sports history, Saku's return. Every player in the NHL took note... Undeniably the best overall Canadiens player in the last 20 years... Points.....I pointed out somewhere else not long ago that I remember before Saku became captain, before his first leg injury, he was leading the League in points at the 38 game mark. He was ahead of Sakic, ahead of Jagr, ahead of Lindros, ahead of everyone. Then he suffered a major injury that almost ended his career. But he came back, and he never regained his speed. Not that he was slow, but he had lost a step. He was still a damn good player. Then another leg injury, but he still came back. What he had lost in speed he made up for in smarts. He was one of the finest playmakers I've ever seen. And he was awarded the captaincy after Vincent Damphousse was let go. Our team was a mess, but Saku did everything he could, game in, game out. He didn't go out and play for himself, for points, for a better contract. He played for the team. That's what a captain should do. Then came cancer and I doubt I was alone thinking we would never see Saku play again. But he fought cancer, and he beat it, and he came back and it was one of the most inspiring moments in history. It went beyond hockey. Top Ten Scorers...they all deserve their jerseys retired in my opinion.... Player Pos GP G A Pts P/G Guy Lafleur RW 961 518 728 1246 1.30 Jean Beliveau C 1125 507 712 1219 1.08 Henri Richard C 1256 358 688 1046 .83 Maurice Richard RW 978 544 421 965 .99 Larry Robinson D 1202 197 686 883 .73 Yvan Cournoyer RW 968 428 435 863 .89 Jacques Lemaire C 853 366 469 835 .98 Steve Shutt LW 871 408 368 776 .89 Bernie Geoffrion RW 766 371 388 759 .99 Saku Koivu C 779 191 450 641 .81 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchlueterMan Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 No wouldn't Kirk Muller be more deserving? Maybe a co-retirement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElCapitan_mtl Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 Forgot to mention the eye injury too....a moment every habs fan will never forget. I mean this guy should have a purple heart or something too...lol And another point on points, remember Koivu played at a time when goals and points were not as easy to come by as in the 70's and 80's.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manatee-X Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 Why? 10 years as captain, longer than any other except Beliveau 10th highest scorer in franchise history (and if he wasn't being ousted like this, he'd have climbed higher) An entire career of bringing everything he has to every game he played, every shift.... Surviving cancer and providing Canadiens fans one of the most memorable moments in sports history, Saku's return. Every player in the NHL took note... Undeniably the best overall Canadiens player in the last 20 years... Points.....I pointed out somewhere else not long ago that I remember before Saku became captain, before his first leg injury, he was leading the League in points at the 38 game mark. He was ahead of Sakic, ahead of Jagr, ahead of Lindros, ahead of everyone. Then he suffered a major injury that almost ended his career. But he came back, and he never regained his speed. Not that he was slow, but he had lost a step. He was still a damn good player. Then another leg injury, but he still came back. What he had lost in speed he made up for in smarts. He was one of the finest playmakers I've ever seen. And he was awarded the captaincy after Vincent Damphousse was let go. Our team was a mess, but Saku did everything he could, game in, game out. He didn't go out and play for himself, for points, for a better contract. He played for the team. That's what a captain should do. Then came cancer and I doubt I was alone thinking we would never see Saku play again. But he fought cancer, and he beat it, and he came back and it was one of the most inspiring moments in history. It went beyond hockey. Top Ten Scorers...they all deserve their jerseys retired in my opinion.... Player Pos GP G A Pts P/G Guy Lafleur RW 961 518 728 1246 1.30 Jean Beliveau C 1125 507 712 1219 1.08 Henri Richard C 1256 358 688 1046 .83 Maurice Richard RW 978 544 421 965 .99 Larry Robinson D 1202 197 686 883 .73 Yvan Cournoyer RW 968 428 435 863 .89 Jacques Lemaire C 853 366 469 835 .98 Steve Shutt LW 871 408 368 776 .89 Bernie Geoffrion RW 766 371 388 759 .99 Saku Koivu C 779 191 450 641 .81 Good point! People talk about Saku like he never scored. Most of those people above him on the list are retired, and they ALL played with a much better team surrounding them. Edit: Also, look how close his PPG was to Henri Richard. Did anyone complain when his number was raised? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElCapitan_mtl Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 No wouldn't Kirk Muller be more deserving? Maybe a co-retirement 3 and half season, 267 games, 247 points...um no. I love Kirk too, and glad he's staying. But he'd be more fittingly retired by the Devils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtl4thewin Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 Well, I think in order to answer this question we need to understand what it means to have a number retired with the Montreal Canadiens. Is it purely based on hockey numbers, and accolades? Or does it extend further, into the character of the player and their influence on the game/community, etc? To me I believe the sweater retirement is done to commemorate the greatest players who wore the red, white, and blue. As an example to all future players/fans of those who have carved the great history of the organization. But I think greatness shouldn't be purely based on hockey numbers and accolades, although it is important, I think other elements can help define greatness. In Saku's case, he has some very respectable numbers, which by themselves as a measure of greatness, I dont think would qualify him as one of the greatest to wear the Jersey. But Saku is a great example of perseverance, a quality which I think fans and future players should be reminded of. But there is a due process for the retirement of a number so the answer to this question will have to wait quite a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amp73 Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 Edit: Also, look how close his PPG was to Henri Richard. Did anyone complain when his number was raised? FYI Henri Richard won 11 Stanley Cups , more than any other player, Hab or not And, no # 11 should still not be retired IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSD Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 3 and half season, 267 games, 247 points...um no. I love Kirk too, and glad he's staying. But he'd be more fittingly retired by the Devils. 247 in 267 not bad lol i didnt know that anyways i said no because i dont think now is the time to retire his number will it ever get retired probably in about 5-10 years once his career is over but i duno i mean i dont think its a priority right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father-and-Daughter-HABS Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 "Saku that's a gigantic project!" he said "This is what I want to do, this is what I want to give back to the people of Montreal who have been so good to me." The same people asking if this topic is a "joke." You know what, you people are the joke and you make me sick see you talk about our captain this way!!!! Of course he was never able to bring the cup here, as some one stated earlier, look at who he played with. Yet when he was healthy he was still always able to put up consistant #'s despite playing with nobody. If you want go right ahead and take a look at his numbers and then do some calculating. If he was to stick with this team until he retires, which by the was is what he wants to do, which I think is quite comendable, say he play's another 4 or 5 years and put up the same numbers or close to the same numbers that he has it would put him in 5 or 7 on the Canadiesn all time point list.......a pretty nice accomplish ment for a team with a hundered years worth of players don't you think. But that is still not enough for some of you who seem to think that he should have brought a cup to Montreal................ALL BY HIMSELF!!!!!! You people are ignorant and obviously don't know the true meaning of HEART and SOUL!!!!! ......and I truly hope there is no one on this forum or no one anywhere saying no this this question who where at the Bell Centre that April evening not to manying years ago chanting........SAKU,SAKU,SAKU,SAKU,SAKU!!!! .....how easy it is for some to forget.......but I won't forget.......and hopfully the Montreal Canadiens organization can make sure that nobody forgets and make sure that the next generation of Habs fans can look up to the Bell Centre rafters when they rasie the #11 and tell stories past down from relatives of the many GREAT things Saku Koivu did for this team, organization..............and for the city!!!!!! You will forever be remembered and missed Saku Koivu......and I do hope one day you have the honor of watching your number 11 be raised to the rafters at the Bell Centre. Kaptain K - 11 Forever!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyMan86 Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 "Saku that's a gigantic project!" he said "This is what I want to do, this is what I want to give back to the people of Montreal who have been so good to me." The same people asking if this topic is a "joke." You know what, you people are the joke and you make me sick see you talk about our captain this way!!!! Of course he was never able to bring the cup here, as some one stated earlier, look at who he played with. Yet when he was healthy he was still always able to put up consistant #'s despite playing with nobody. If you want go right ahead and take a look at his numbers and then do some calculating. If he was to stick with this team until he retires, which by the was is what he wants to do, which I think is quite comendable, say he play's another 4 or 5 years and put up the same numbers or close to the same numbers that he has it would put him in 5 or 7 on the Canadiesn all time point list.......a pretty nice accomplish ment for a team with a hundered years worth of players don't you think. But that is still not enough for some of you who seem to think that he should have brought a cup to Montreal................ALL BY HIMSELF!!!!!! You people are ignorant and obviously don't know the true meaning of HEART and SOUL!!!!! ......and I truly hope there is no one on this forum or no one anywhere saying no this this question who where at the Bell Centre that April evening not to manying years ago chanting........SAKU,SAKU,SAKU,SAKU,SAKU!!!! .....how easy it is for some to forget.......but I won't forget.......and hopfully the Montreal Canadiens organization can make sure that nobody forgets and make sure that the next generation of Habs fans can look up to the Bell Centre rafters when they rasie the #11 and tell stories past down from relatives of the many GREAT things Saku Koivu did for this team, organization..............and for the city!!!!!! You will forever be remembered and missed Saku Koivu......and I do hope one day you have the honor of watching your number 11 be raised to the rafters at the Bell Centre. Kaptain K - 11 Forever!!!! I totally agree such a shame ppl forget what he has done for the habs.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patinwoody Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 Saku Koivu will get a LONG standing ovation when he returns to Montreal with a different team. Thanks for the memories - here's a nice painting of yourself. Clap clap clap. Let's drop the puck and play. Too bad Saku could not take a lesser role like Mike Modano in Dallas. Thanks for everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chromedome_mtl Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 Lafleur didn't finish his long-term career with his team. Should his number not be retired? Trevor Linden never won a championship. He never won a scoring title, or any major award for that matter. Should his number not be retired by the Canucks? Like Forever Habs #10 said, there are really no defined criteria for retiring a jersey. I know what you're saying, and especially on this team there are so many deserving players that it's hard to say Saku deserves it more than some of the others from the dynasty teams that have yet to be honoured. The thing is, though, those eras had their superstars and those players have already been retired. Yes, there are other who also played great and put up huge amounts of points, but we can't exactly retire the entire 70s dynasty team. Retiring jerseys, for me at least, isn't about points or awards or even championships. Instead, it's about saying to a player "you were so important to this franchise, to your teammates, to this city, that we can't imagine letting just any player wear the number that you made famous". I think Linden in Vancouver was actually a great example, the fans there love him in the same way we love Koivu. I was at his retirement ceremony, and they didn't spend much time talking about his point totals. Instead, they talked about his character, his skill, his heart and his charity work. Do any of those things not describe Saku perfectly? They showed a bunch of videos of important moments in his career, and amongst all the highlight reel and overtime winning goals the two biggest cheers from the crowd were for a video of a shift where he fought in the corners for about 80 seconds against three guys and one where he was visiting sick kids at the BC Children's Hospital. Again, sound familiar? Sorry this was such a long post, but for Koivu it's not about just having heart and his charity work and all that. It's that combined with his skill, combined with his great on-ice leadership of such a lacklustre team for so many year, and most of all combined with the sheer emotional connection he's had with the city of Montreal and its fans. Even amongst all of the Habs greats, he's a special player. Thank you for putting it in such great terms and words that at least some of the hard-core know-it-alls that don't feel he won enough, or scored enough points to merit being honored, must be questioning their own thoughts now !Well spoken! It never occurred to me to consider Linden's situation with Vancouver as a superb example of why it is simply just RIGHT to give Saku his due! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 Without a doubt,,,,,,YES I'm still holding out hope that we will see him retire in a Habs jersey so i would put it on hold until that announcement ( his retirement) is made. In the meantime, i would hope the team unofficially retire the number by not allowing another player to wear it. Anybody daring to wear that number this year will undoubtedly get booed off the ice. Some great arguments have been made in this thread in support of Koivu and i am in TOTAL agreement. I would hope those against ,,,,reflect further about his contributions to the city and team of Montreal. Please look back on the retirement ceremonies we have seen this year and past, and picture the look of admiration that Saku displayed on his face during each and every banner raising. He was like a little kid looking up to his heroes. He is the HABS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EckCH Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 No, no and.... NO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strollerhnjhjjhjkind Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 No. Saku is just not like Beliveau, Lafleur, Richard, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyMan86 Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 i find it funny the ppl against saku koivus number being retired can only say "no" and can only say "hes not like this habs legend" who gives a crap? is that the only reason u guys are against his number being retired? because hes not like the rest of the habs past? im sorry but koivu didnt give us a cup fine but hes done a ton of things for montreal A TON! so please instead of just saying "no" or "hes not like*insert old habs name here*" anything else you guys got? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren19 Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 i find it funny the ppl against saku koivus number being retired can only say "no" and can only say "hes not like this habs legend" who gives a crap? is that the only reason u guys are against his number being retired? because hes not like the rest of the habs past? im sorry but koivu didnt give us a cup fine but hes done a ton of things for montreal A TON! so please instead of just saying "no" or "hes not like*insert old habs name here*" anything else you guys got? What exactly did he do that would warrant such an honor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyMan86 Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 What exactly did he do that would warrant such an honor? flip to page 2 and read my reasons and everyone elses as to why he should get this honor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 I also dont buy the argument of comparing him to past Hab greats. It was a different era back then. Most players stayed with their team for their whole careers. The Teams controlled player movement back then, unlike today where players have options during their playing years. Saku has chosen to stay with the Habs despite his option of going elsewhere for more money in the past. I beleive he would once again accept below market value to finnish his career as a Hab. It would be virtually impossible for the modern player to get his number retired today based on having his playing years spread over several teams. IMO guys that choose to remain loyal to a team and city while playing at a high level, should receive consideration and recognition. If anybody meets those requirements in todays NHL then thats Saku. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteenIsThaFuture Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 No. Saku is just not like Beliveau, Lafleur, Richard, etc. Ok but thats not a fair comparison. Just because there are some elites up on the rafters doesn't mean you excluse all non-elite players. This is an individual case, not one made by comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren19 Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 flip to page 2 and read my reasons and everyone elses as to why he should get this honor. Using cancer as one of the reason is pathetic. Most people have to rely on the public system to cure and recover from that desease...he had millions in the bank to do so. He gets so sympathy from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jean-1 Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 As much as I love Saku, I do not believe his number should be retired. I do believe if he moves on and signs with another team they should give him a nice tribute, let him know he was a big part of the habs. It is still a shock to me that he is gone...... what can I say,,,I am a huge saku fan and always will be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyMan86 Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 Using cancer as one of the reason is pathetic. Most people have to rely on the public system to cure and recover from that desease...he had millions in the bank to do so. He gets so sympathy from me. Oh yeah its pathetic that he actually gave a poop and started a donation to buy a pet scan that cost around 2.5m for montreal yeah thats so pathetic anything else my friend? cause if thats all you got then thats pathetic in itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amp73 Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 Oh yeah its pathetic that he actually gave a poop and started a donation to buy a pet scan that cost around 2.5m for montreal yeah thats so pathetic anything else my friend? cause if thats all you got then thats pathetic in itself. I already did on Page # 2 He never won a Stanely Cup An NHL award scoring title he holds no Hab or NHl records for goals, pts , assists etc Other than being one of the longest serving captains in Hab history and the face of the Habs that the " newer " generation of fans could relate to why should he have his number retired Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.