HabHabit Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 The thing with Gill is that he's a huge player who doesn't hit or play physically. He has good reach, but his mobility is questionable and he is not going to smoke forwards along the boards if that's what everyone is hoping for. Gill is a perfect example of how chasing size on its own merit can be a faulty strategy. Dagenais was big too and did squat with his big frame. Mara will be a better addition in the physicality department, and I'm hoping that O'Byrne can make that leap too. But Gill? Waste of cap and a roster spot IMO. There are other reasons for size in a defenceman - reach is a big one. Gill is quite effective in this respect, in intercepting passes and clearing the puck away from the net and out of the passing lanes. Against Detroit, which has a great net presence, he was excellent at this, and yet did not impede Fleury's ability to see the puck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsforlifee Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 Well said . I think we all agree that the corps has improved from last year , it's a little better , but not great. Beauchemin would have been a good fit, Montador has that hard nose work ethic on D like Moen brings to the wing . Komisarek was left out to dry and fight all the other teams` tough guys, because there was no one else , that's where a guy like an Exelby, Jackman, or Witt would have played a huge part for us to clear the front of the net and take out anyone trying to take liberties out on our goaltenders . Hopefully someone will teach O'Byrne how to skate, because he's a terrible skater ; Fischer, Weber and Subban will be just fine with some patience and playing experience . Honestly although I agree with you that our defence is slighty better and your last paragraph, I don't see how beauchemin is the answer. He is so far hiped up in my books it isn't ever funny. Mara has a better PPG average than Beauchemin, and Beauchemin is supose to be this amazing "offence first" defencemen. We just got spacek who is better than Beaucemin offensively, and mara who is better offensively all the while having the two we picked up being better defensively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourtrax Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 There are other reasons for size in a defenceman - reach is a big one. Gill is quite effective in this respect, in intercepting passes and clearing the puck away from the net and out of the passing lanes. Against Detroit, which has a great net presence, he was excellent at this, and yet did not impede Fleury's ability to see the puck. I know his reach is good, but we'll see. One good playoff run doesn't mean he's suddenly become a top-four guy. If we use him in limited third-pairing minutes, he might be all right. Honestly although I agree with you that our defence is slighty better and your last paragraph, I don't see how beauchemin is the answer. He is so far hiped up in my books it isn't ever funny. Mara has a better PPG average than Beauchemin, and Beauchemin is supose to be this amazing "offence first" defencemen. We just got spacek who is better than Beaucemin offensively, and mara who is better offensively all the while having the two we picked up being better defensively. According to who? Beauchemin has never posted more than 34 points in a regular season. I don't know who's rating him as an amazing offensive defenseman. From what I've seen, he's a very solid defensive defenseman who chips in with some offense now and again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stajan1 Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 According to who? Beauchemin has never posted more than 34 points in a regular season. I don't know who's rating him as an amazing offensive defenseman. From what I've seen, he's a very solid defensive defenseman who chips in with some offense now and again. he can speak the mystical language that is french. i think that is supposed to add 25 points/season to his stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ianzy Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 I know his reach is good, but we'll see. One good playoff run doesn't mean he's suddenly become a top-four guy. If we use him in limited third-pairing minutes, he might be all right. Definitely agreed there, you need to use him in a role he can be effective in, and that would be the 3rd pairing. Also, i think we will his physical side infront of the habs net. As you suggested, i don't see him crushing ppl along the boards like komisarek did at times, but rather clearing people more effectively infront of price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSD Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 he can speak the mystical language that is french. i think that is supposed to add 25 points/season to his stats. classic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourtrax Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 he can speak the mystical language that is french. i think that is supposed to add 25 points/season to his stats. Well, I sure would have preferred him to Gill, but what's done is done. Definitely agreed there, you need to use him in a role he can be effective in, and that would be the 3rd pairing. Also, i think we will his physical side infront of the habs net. As you suggested, i don't see him crushing ppl along the boards like komisarek did at times, but rather clearing people more effectively infront of price. This is a good point. If Gill can be even halfway more effective than Komisarek at clearing the net, he'll be useful. Komisarek was nigh useless in that capacity last season. I got tired of screaming at my TV every time an enemy forward put in his own rebound while Komisarek just stood around looking confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteenIsThaFuture Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 I got tired of screaming at my TV every time an enemy forward put in his own rebound while Komisarek just stood around looking confused. Hey what did the TV ever do to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourtrax Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 Hey what did the TV ever do to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmash Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 Out: Komisarek, Schneider, Bouillion, (not counting Dandy since he was mostly a forward) In: Spacek, Mara, Gill I'd say that's maybe a slight improvement. Spacek should be a step up on Schneider, and Gill/Mara (not sure who is considered the lesser of the two) is a definite step up on Bouillion, however, neither is as good as Komisarek (although it kind of depends if you base it off what Komisarek is capable of vs. what he did for us last season). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habsgal Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 I love the new look d.. Its a HUGE improvement on last years. First off Komi flat out sucked last year.. I don't care what anyone says and the truth is it started before the Lucic fight that just gave him an excuse. He did get worse after the fight and lost his edge but he was bad before the fight too. he was no #2 d-man last year not even close.. he was more like our number #4 or #5 last year behind Markov, Georges and Hamer for sure and at the end I would even say Schinder. Komi from two years ago was great but last years guy was awful and I took it way to easy on the guy in my comments because I liked him. I am no fan of Hall Gill. I have called him a pylon for years and that not going to chancge.. But I will admit that his addition was a good move. 1. Because it fills Komis spot... not to the same degree as the Komi from 2 years back, but from last years guy? Yeah I buy that. Gill is not a guy I want on the ice 5 on 5 against a fast skating line. He is not mobile enough to catch the aster fowards of the league. However on the PK he might be one of the most effective d-men we could have got. he is physical and clears that front of the net.. something we struggled with last year. He has a long stick and takes away passing lanes. He also adds size and grit to a samll team. Spacek was a good move too. He adds more puck movement. IMO last year we had problems in this department big time. After Markov we really fell of the map in this regard. We did not have a defence that could get the puck to the forwards in postions to create offence. Oou MO was throw the puck to the point which lead to turnovers and created more offence for the oppisition. Spacek is needed because of his vision and puck movement.. If each pairing has a guy who can move the puck we are much better off. He also can shoot from the point.. he is no 15-20 goal guy like Souray but it adds a bit more of a threat that wasn't there for much of last season. Mara actualy made me very happy. I really like this guy. He adds more size and some grit. I love his postoning and defensive game.. and he has a bit of offence too. he can move the puck and has a hard shot. Its not accurate as it could be thats for sure but the guy did score 15 in the past. He has been more of a 5 goal guy as of late but again liek spacek adds a bit more of a threat. They guy is not great at anything but is good and solid at everything. Nice well rounded guy with a great work ethic and attitude. Nice leader type guy here. I like that he has played with Gill, and Gomez in the past as well. It helps to have some of these new guys play with each other in the past since there is so many new faces. Over all I think our d is much more well rounded then last years.. Much better puck movement. more options for point shots. more size and much more versitility. I love this balanced aproach I believe it will prove to be a much greater asset then the Leafs Big Banger d that has very little puck movement or offence after Kaberlae who will likely be traded anyway. I also believe this group will be much more durable then last years group which seemed to always have 2 or more guys out of the line up.. And if and when a guy does go down I like I haveing Webber, O'Byrne, Carle, Belle, Fisher and Subban as options to sill out the bottom pairing.. This is a deep and balanced group. I like it a lot. Excellent post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
74Kos-yn-31Price Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 TORHABSFAN hit it right on the head, this defensive group is way better than last years... Opposing teams no longer have to just shut down Markovs offensive play from the back end... I think we have a group that our young goalies are really going to sine behind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtl_-Habs4Life-_mtlc Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 HUGE improvement. Maybe not the theoretically ideal moves (I'll admit that Beauchemin would have been nice to have), but this group is leaps and bounds better than the one we iced last year. More size, much more offense, much better defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiapo Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 ...people are writing gill off way too early, why do i say this? because he just came off a championship team...hear me out for a second...if this guy was such a useless d-man right, wouldnt the pens have gotten rid of him during trade deadline? why would they keep someone that was going to free agency that they didnt want because he was so useless, they could have traded him and got a pick...instead they kept him at trade deadline added guerin and went on a playoff run that took them from 10th to the cup...they used him, the new coach in town obviously saw a use and need for him because he was used throughout the playoffs wasnt he?...the guy obviously knows what to do, some people are judging based on what they think they've seen...he wasnt the greatest on toronto, but who is? this guy ended up getting traded to the pens who for the seasons that they had him went to the finals both times...yeah hes not going to get points all the time, but what he is going to do is clear the front of the net something that komiserek could not do effectively this past season... ['TORHABSFAN' date=Jul 11 2009, 08:58 AM' post='1517977] I love the new look d.. Its a HUGE improvement on last years. ...I am no fan of Hall Gill. I have called him a pylon for years and that not going to change... 'weepingminotaur' date='Jul 11 2009, 03:26 PM' post='1518183'] The thing with Gill is that he's a huge player who doesn't hit or play physically. He has good reach, but his mobility is questionable and he is not going to smoke forwards along the boards if that's what everyone is hoping for. Gill is a perfect example of how chasing size on its own merit can be a faulty strategy. Dagenais was big too and did squat with his big frame...= I dunno.... Gill did pretty well against the best team in league. I think if he is used well( 3rd pairing minutes), he could be a real asset to the team. Some good observations, and to add just one more... the Pittsburgh coach had enough faith/trust/confidence in Gill to have him on the ice in the last 2 minutes of game 7 against Detroit. Are we still seeing Gill as a useless pylon with the Maple Leafs? Perhaps he has improved immensely since then. As for me... I'm shooting for the sky. He'll become another Chara. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfourni Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 The thing with Gill is that he's a huge player who doesn't hit or play physically. He has good reach, but his mobility is questionable and he is not going to smoke forwards along the boards if that's what everyone is hoping for. Gill is a perfect example of how chasing size on its own merit can be a faulty strategy. Dagenais was big too and did squat with his big frame. Mara will be a better addition in the physicality department, and I'm hoping that O'Byrne can make that leap too. But Gill? Waste of cap and a roster spot IMO. Sorry Weep but I have to disagree with this. Ok, Gill may not go for the big hits like Komi did, but he will be extremely effective in pinning guys against the boards, clearing alot of room in front of the net....I think what Gainey was going for here is a large body to exhaust the opposing team in the corners and in front of the net. Mark my words, in the D-zone he will be very tough to get around and to budge him from the front of the net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
losthab Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 as a unit the d looks solid and unspectatular, i hope weber gets a chance, as i think he will be better than schneider was in his prime, from my opinion it would be gorges as the 7th man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QbGamer Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 its soo much better then last year. As much as we loved Bouillion he was 5'8 back there.. Breezer. Was way past his prime, and due to our other d's stinkin it up, we had to use him alot more then we intended too.. Komi was awefull.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leafs_rock_go_mccabe Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 Out: Bouillon Brisebois Dandenault Schneider Komisarek In: Gill Mara Spacek Spacek clearly brings an offensive element that we were missing for most of last season. Schneider provided that element near the end of the season I am wondering if Schneider on a 1-year deal wouldn't have been a better idea than Spacek on a 3-year deal. Schneider on a 1-year deal would have also given us a better opportunity to let Yannick Weber get more playing time at the NHL level. I truly believe that Mara and Gill are better replacements for Komisarek. Komisarek, much over-hyped by us, was really poor last season. I never realized how bad his outlet ability was, and I am praying that Mara and/or Gill can provide that veteran stability required when you are under pressure from attacking forwards. Brisebois and Bouillon's times were overdue. I am glad to see them leaving and think O'Byrne and Gorges can easily take those spots on the roster! The D is improved... By how much? It's tough to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gracie12 Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 Spacek clearly brings an offensive element that we were missing for most of last season. Schneider provided that element near the end of the season I am wondering if Schneider on a 1-year deal wouldn't have been a better idea than Spacek on a 3-year deal. Schneider on a 1-year deal would have also given us a better opportunity to let Yannick Weber get more playing time at the NHL level. I truly believe that Mara and Gill are better replacements for Komisarek. Komisarek, much over-hyped by us, was really poor last season. I never realized how bad his outlet ability was, and I am praying that Mara and/or Gill can provide that veteran stability required when you are under pressure from attacking forwards. Brisebois and Bouillon's times were overdue. I am glad to see them leaving and think O'Byrne and Gorges can easily take those spots on the roster! The D is improved... By how much? It's tough to say. There is still speculation that Schneider may still be offered a contract once the dust of RFA settles. Take it for what its worth. Wont offer our youngsters much ice time when everyone's healthy but there will be injuries & therefore, opportunities Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leafs_rock_go_mccabe Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 There is still speculation that Schneider may still be offered a contract once the dust of RFA settles. Take it for what its worth. Wont offer our youngsters much ice time when everyone's healthy but there will be injuries & therefore, opportunities Wasn't that a rumour originating from Eklund? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstStar Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 There is still speculation that Schneider may still be offered a contract once the dust of RFA settles. Take it for what its worth. Wont offer our youngsters much ice time when everyone's healthy but there will be injuries & therefore, opportunities I don't think signing Schneidy would be a bad idea. Let's face it, the guy's getting old, doesn't look like he's slowed down much, but time will catch up to him. I did notice that he wasn't as sharp on back to back nights, still better than most of our D-men though. If we do sign him, we can give him some much needed rest. Hand the torch off to the younger guys and keep Schneidy's ice-time down, keeping him fresh in case of injury or as a secondary PP unit. He proved last season that he still has a shot and can defend as well. I think he'd be much more valuable if we cut down his ice-time and use him smartly. He'd also be a great mentor for Weber(and other youngsters coming up ie: Subban), I honestly believe we could use him. I'm my opinion, he could be our choice for captain. He bring experience, he's not afraid of working hard and he seems well liked and respected by his team mates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourtrax Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 If Gainey re-signs Schneider, I'm going to proceed to stage 2 of my full-blown drinking problem. It's like he is intent on preventing our prospects from ever getting to a stage where they could be top-four d-men, thereby obviating the need to keep signing octogenarians to short-term contracts. We already have six veteran d-men under contract (if you include Gorges). So already O'Byrne, Weber, and possibly Carle are all just fighting for a reserve spot, which might mean splitting the season with Gill or Gorges unless serious injuries strike. So why in God's name sign Schneider? He has one value only at this point, and that's on the power play, but how long do we keep relying on him to deliver a good point shot instead of developing an in-house solution ourselves? If you play Schneider, you hamstring yourself, because at this point all he's good for is power-play duty. At even strength, he's too slow, too small, too easily pushed off the puck. We have Spacek, Mara, and the Kostitsyns as point shot options. Let's seriously develop those options so we don't have to wonder every year who's going to be the triggerman for Markov with the man advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manatee-X Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 I don't think signing Schneidy would be a bad idea. Let's face it, the guy's getting old, doesn't look like he's slowed down much, but time will catch up to him. I did notice that he wasn't as sharp on back to back nights, still better than most of our D-men though. If we do sign him, we can give him some much needed rest. Hand the torch off to the younger guys and keep Schneidy's ice-time down, keeping him fresh in case of injury or as a secondary PP unit. He proved last season that he still has a shot and can defend as well. I think he'd be much more valuable if we cut down his ice-time and use him smartly. He'd also be a great mentor for Weber(and other youngsters coming up ie: Subban), I honestly believe we could use him. I'm my opinion, he could be our choice for captain. He bring experience, he's not afraid of working hard and he seems well liked and respected by his team mates. This would be nice, but how can he mentor all of these young players when signing Schneider means that they're stuck in Hamilton? I'm not as fervent as a lot of posters when it comes to the idea of playing a lot of youngsters in order to let them develop. My thought is that you keep a few fighting for spots on the big club. There are going to be injuries throughout the year that let them play more, and if they're good enough to play in the NHL they should be good enough to steal that spot (see: Maxime LaPierre, Andrei Kostitsyn, etc). Having said that though, there's got to be a limit. Having 7 veteran defensemen is just a little much, no? Say we sign him, who gets put in reserve? Georges? Gill? That's either wasting our only young defenseman who's currently playing really well or putting big salary on the bench for a player that's not as good. No thank you. Signing Mara effectively killed any remote chance of Schneider signing, IMO. Besides, is he even that good? Other than the power play, do you think he'll play better than O'Byrne or Weber if they're given a consistant shot? To be honest, I don't. With the team we have now I wouldn't take him for free. You're just going to sit someone better to play him, and even if there are injuries our prospects still wouldn't get the chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstStar Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Geez people are hard to follow... All last year people were screaming to get us some good d-men. Bob finally does it and those same people are now screaming cos there's too many NHL d-men and no room for youngins. I agree, we can't let player rot away in the AHL, they have to be brought up and given a chance. But you have to introduce em gradually and not all at one time. You think the d was a mess last year, put a few AHLers from Hamilton and the goals will go in. Why? Cos they're young and they are going to makes mistakes, some very costly. Right now with Price's confidence on the line, it is not the time to be taking chances on green d-men. Webber will most likely be in Montreal this year with O'Byrnes, I say that's enough, for now. Any seasoned winger coming into our zone will (9 times out of 10) go on the wing of the rookie. And that's cos they lack NHL experience and the chances of getting around em is greater than getting around Markov, Spacek, Hammer, etc... There's a system to bringing and introducing rookie d-men to the NHL. Pair him up with a seasoned vet, someone he can look up to and someone who can come in and help out if the kid finds himself in trouble. There were 4 pages of posts last year when O'B was turned inside out by (I think) Lindstrom. The original error wasn't made by O'B, but he got the blame after a goal went in. Webber played well last year, but as he continues to play in the NHL, he's going to learn some very valuable lessons. He's going to screw up, he's suppose to screw up, that's how he will learn and mature. Could you imagine if we had 3 or 4 rookie d-men on the team? Pretty much on every defensive pairing, we'd have a rookie kid who could make a very costly mistake (most likely at the wrong time... During a tight game). I'm just as curious to see what these kids will turn into, but I don't want to go through another mediocre season just to introduce kids to the NHL. There will be injuries and spots will open up. If they're good enough to crack the lineup on a full-time basis, then we'll have trade-bate come the trade deadline. I think people forget that we have a shaky goalie who's looking for confidence. Unfortunately, our focus has to be on him right now. Once he finds his game and can steal games for us, then we'll be able to introduce some AHLer's, until then, our focus should be on Price. If we can't bring up some young d-men, don't blame the off-season signings, blame the fact that they brought up a kid, much too young and too inexperienced to take the starter position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
losthab Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 weber will make mistakes in his 1st few years, another year in hamilton wont cure that, he was our best defencmen in the awful playoffs, he is the real deal, he should play with spacek regular minutes and the pp, maybe not pk duty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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