flames4eva Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Closer to the biggest defensive overhaul in the history of the organization. OUT Soupy Dandy Brisebois Komisarek Schneider (From February to April) IN Spacek Mara Gill And now Bergeron (did I forget anyone) For the guys coming in as well as the guys who stayed, it's quite the shake up. It's bound to cause problems. Specially when they've been practicing with their linemate for the last month, only to be forced to re-adjust again with the loss of Markov and O'Byrne. We haven't even brought up the roles and the impact the players that are gone-to injury-have on this team. Neither group is anything to get exited about really IMO. But what the Habs may have gained in terms of size to some extent, does not offset what they have lost in terms of overall speed and toughness I believe. The other glaring problem, for me at least, is the loss of three true right-hand d-men... with O'Byrne out and when Weber returns to Hamilton we won't have any, which I would suggest is and will remain a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leafs_rock_go_mccabe Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 When looking at our new defensive core people need to keep in mind that Patrice Brisebois, Mathieu Dandenault, and Mathieu Schneider were so much on the downside of their careers that one retired, one couldn't find a job, and the other is out with a shoulder injury. I, for one, think the players we have signed ARE, indeed, superior to those we had last year. For anyone who wants to take shots at Hal Gill... By all means, go ahead. But, in my honest opinion, he's no worse than our former, "Future captain of the Montreal Canadiens, Mike Komisarek." Gill, one could argue, is actually better along the boards than Komisarek is. He might not be mobile, and have the occasional gaffe, but Komisarek has looked pretty brutal in a Leafs' uniform, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flames4eva Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 When looking at our new defensive core people need to keep in mind that Patrice Brisebois, Mathieu Dandenault, and Mathieu Schneider were so much on the downside of their careers that one retired, one couldn't find a job, and the other is out with a shoulder injury. I, for one, think the players we have signed ARE, indeed, superior to those we had last year. For anyone who wants to take shots at Hal Gill... By all means, go ahead. But, in my honest opinion, he's no worse than our former, "Future captain of the Montreal Canadiens, Mike Komisarek." Gill, one could argue, is actually better along the boards than Komisarek is. He might not be mobile, and have the occasional gaffe, but Komisarek has looked pretty brutal in a Leafs' uniform, too. Cliche response IMO. One could say the same thing about Gill, Mara and Spacek had BG not signed them... very weak argument that does not address the points that I brought up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leafs_rock_go_mccabe Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Cliche response IMO. One could say the same thing about Gill, Mara and Spacek had BG not signed them... very weak argument that does not address the points that I brought up. I disagree. Spacek, Gill, and Mara (in my opinion) would have easily found suitors had Gainey not signed them given their age and season of success in 2008-2009. I also believe it's far too early in the season to determine which have been failures or successes. Spacek had 40 points and was +2 last season with Buffalo. Gill, despite not putting up many points, had an extremely successful post-season run (+8, Stanley Cup)! Mara had 21 points and a +2 rating playing in New York. I believe all were playing decent minutes, too. I'm also aware of the difference between last season and this season, but these guys, ON PAPER, are better than what we had last year. Let's hope they can translate that into victories for our club this season because the game isn't played on paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
357908_1475251331 Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 so like i said the core is essentially better, but maybe gill expected to get some trust + respect for having a cup win, or be roused by the pavillions in appreciation of his good work to bring an underdog team through game 7 of the finals. i don't know, i know i never would have given him an "A"- i'm a believer in positive reinforcement, but he's in for a surprise if he is ever going to play in the bell, no? the bigger they are the harder they fall? maybe hamr should be made "C" i bet he thinks he's overpayed, and let him earn his spend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flames4eva Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 I disagree. Spacek, Gill, and Mara (in my opinion) would have easily found suitors had Gainey not signed them given their age and season of success in 2008-2009. I also believe it's far too early in the season to determine which have been failures or successes. Spacek had 40 points and was +2 last season with Buffalo. Gill, despite not putting up many points, had an extremely successful post-season run (+8, Stanley Cup)! Mara had 21 points and a +2 rating playing in New York. I believe all were playing decent minutes, too. I'm also aware of the difference between last season and this season, but these guys, ON PAPER, are better than what we had last year. Let's hope they can translate that into victories for our club this season because the game isn't played on paper. I disagree with this and you still did not address what I had said in terms of differences... all things are not relative when you consider the team's these guys were playing for, whom they may have been playing with before and the roles they were given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmerpuck Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Which new defensive core are we talking about now? Markov / Spacek / O'Byrne / Gorges / Mara / Gill Spacek / Hamrlik / O'Byrne / Gorges / Mara / Gill Spacek / Hamrlik / Gorges / Mara / Gill / Weber or Coming Soon to an Ice Rink Near You............ Spacek / Hamrlik / Gorges / Mara / Gill / Bergeron I think we should change the poll question to: Which defensive core will we have at the end of the year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstStar Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Neither group is anything to get exited about really IMO. But what the Habs may have gained in terms of size to some extent, does not offset what they have lost in terms of overall speed and toughness I believe. The other glaring problem, for me at least, is the loss of three true right-hand d-men... with O'Byrne out and when Weber returns to Hamilton we won't have any, which I would suggest is and will remain a problem. If you read my post correctly, I wasn't saying we have players that excite us. Was just pointing out that with such a drastic change, there's bound to be problems. I agree with you... I feel a right handed shot is just as important as a left handed pitcher in baseball. I've been saying this for a while, which is why I was disappointed when we lost Ryder and didn't pick up another right handed winger. I was happy when we finally signed Lang and what an impact he made. People under-estimate the importance of a good right handed shot. Let's face it, Lang wasn't a fast skater, yet he still lead the Habs in scoring until his injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leafs_rock_go_mccabe Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 I disagree with this and you still did not address what I had said in terms of differences... all things are not relative when you consider the team's these guys were playing for, whom they may have been playing with before and the roles they were given. What you're saying is true, but in any instance of free agent signing a certain degree of risk is taken. There's always a risk that someone like Hal Gill will come here and be a disaster. After all, he was playing with Crosby and Malkin before. However, that's the risk you have to take sometimes. Years of mediocrity with the likes of Bouillon, Dandenault, Brisebois, Komisarek, and co. Well, it was time to try something new, I guess. I am going to continue to wait before seeing if Spacek and co. pan out. I have hope that they will have a good season. Even without Markov I think we have a team that can keep ourselves in a post-season position until he returns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flames4eva Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 What you're saying is true, but in any instance of free agent signing a certain degree of risk is taken. There's always a risk that someone like Hal Gill will come here and be a disaster. After all, he was playing with Crosby and Malkin before. However, that's the risk you have to take sometimes. Years of mediocrity with the likes of Bouillon, Dandenault, Brisebois, Komisarek, and co. Well, it was time to try something new, I guess. I am going to continue to wait before seeing if Spacek and co. pan out. I have hope that they will have a good season. Even without Markov I think we have a team that can keep ourselves in a post-season position until he returns. I agree... but, here's the thing... If for example we decided to pay a player like Hal Gill 2.25 million, (and for two years) based on playing him 5th/6th defensive pairing minutes, we simply paid too much when at the time there were other potential signings out there that would have filled the role at less cost (Andrew Alberts was signed by the Canes for $1,050,000/2yrs., for example and Martin Skoula was recently signed by Pitt for $575,000). That one signing took away money that could have been better spent towards another top-four d-man (perhaps with a right-hand shot to boot... ). Adrien Aucoin signed for 2.5 million/1yr. with the Yotes. Derek Morris for 3.3 million/1yr with the Bruins. Both right-hand shots with decent size and arguably better than Gill and still capable of 4th d-man minutes for one more year. I understand the Spacek signing in one respect (power play), but do not in terms of age and length of contract. Many thought that Bouillon and Dandenault (even Breezer perhaps) were overpaid for the roles they were intended to play... to put it in perspetive. Holding that thought, Mara was a better deal as the 5th left d-man than Gill IMO. Not signing Dandenault for one year on the cheap was a bit of a dissapointment for me, considering his versatility and the fact that when given the chance last year he did play very decent on "D". We could have had a better more balanced, tougher and faster "D" IMO. The jury is still out to be sure... the season is young and as a team the Habs may be capable of making the playoffs... but, IMO, not because they have an improved defense corps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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