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Are They Really Winners?


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A "bad" loss is defined as losing to a team you shouldn't. There are 3 exceptions to a "bad" loss. 1. The loss is to a division rival (Division rivals always play each other tough.) 2. Your team is plagued with injuries at the time. 3. You've already clinched a playoff spot and are just

killing time until the post season.

Let's take a look at Pittsburgh's 2008-2009 season. They had 16 bad losses and were in 11th place for more than half the season. To me that is not worthy of a Stanley Cup. That is not of the calibur of a championship team. Take a look at who they lost to during the regular season. Both Crosby and Malkin were present in all the defeats.

Columbus

Phoenix

Minnesota

Vancouver

Carolina

Florida

Buffalo x 2

Montreal x 2

Ottawa x 3

Toronto x 3

I'm sorry, but to me the Penguins don't deserve the Stanley Cup.

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I'm sorry, but to me the Penguins don't deserve the Stanley Cup.[/font][/size]

They made the playoffs

They then defeated the teams that they had to play to move on

Unltimatley they won the 16 games it takes to win the cup

Congrats to them, they are the 2008-2009 Champions

PS In 1993 a team won the Cup that probably didn't deserve it but they did and that's all that matters

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Winning the cup is just a matter of being good at the right time.

Pittsburgh had a tremendous run down the stretch and it carried into the playoffs. Many factors contributed to this, including a coaching change and the return of Sergei Gonchar to the lineup.

You can't judge a team based solely on "bad losses", there are a number of factors that make a team win a championship.

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You have to consider that there isn't a big difference between the best team and the worst team these days. The cap makes it so you can't really have to many stars on your team. Even Detroit is not as star studded as they were once upon a time. Then you have to take into account possible injuries, random luck, and other factors. I am of the opinion that you can never truely declare a team as the best as there always seems to be inconsistencies sooner or later with a team. I believe Detroit lost to a few bad teams during the regular season, but I doubt anyone would question them if they won the cup.

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A "bad" loss is defined as losing to a team you shouldn't. There are 3 exceptions to a "bad" loss. 1. The loss is to a division rival (Division rivals always play each other tough.) 2. Your team is plagued with injuries at the time. 3. You've already clinched a playoff spot and are just

killing time until the post season.

Let's take a look at Pittsburgh's 2008-2009 season. They had 16 bad losses and were in 11th place for more than half the season. To me that is not worthy of a Stanley Cup. That is not of the calibur of a championship team. Take a look at who they lost to during the regular season. Both Crosby and Malkin were present in all the defeats.

Columbus

Phoenix

Minnesota

Vancouver

Carolina

Florida

Buffalo x 2

Montreal x 2

Ottawa x 3

Toronto x 3

I'm sorry, but to me the Penguins don't deserve the Stanley Cup.

what do you even mean?? the team who deserves the cup should be at the top of the league all year?? thats not true at all...you know why the pens won the cup? because they came together as a team...as a team they said "no finishing 10th is not going to suffice" they made changes and played as a TEAM and as a TEAM they put on a show in the playoffs...they finished 4th in the conference and finished with a stanley cup...you dont have to be the best team in the league to win the cup and to say they dont deserve it?? :blink: they were 10th in the east and fought all the way to 4th and then went through the flyers, the caps, the canes and finally last seasons champions...how can you say they didnt deserve to win :huh: because they lost some games to some teams?? the canes beat the bruins...the ducks beat the sharks...the hawks beat the nucks etc etc...the purpose of the regular season is jockeying for playoff position who youre going to face and whether you get home ice...so the pens who werent even in the playoff picture made it to 4th place and all of a sudden they dont deserve to be champions?? the fact that they didnt give up on their dream is the exact reason as to why they do deserve to be champions...

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I'm sorry, but to me the Penguins don't deserve the Stanley Cup.[/font][/size]

Haha. How does a team that wins the cup not "deserve" it? Should we take all of their rings and give them to the Detroit players?

The Penguins acknowledged they had a problem when they were in 11th and corrected it. Ever since that point in time they flew into the playoffs and took the cup.

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I'm sorry, but to me the Penguins don't deserve the Stanley Cup.

I give them all the credit they deserve.

Congrats to the stanley cup champs.well dissevering.

This was a team,that in mid-season,was going sour.

They fired their coach at the time,Therrien,( Believe crosby & he was not on the same page) and brought in a young dude ,Bylsma.

Seemed that's all they needed,the team instantly changed,for the good,started winning roll.

They managed to grasp home-ice advantage,heading into the 1st round,matching up against the flyers.

What a series,which the flyers dominated most of the series,Fleury being the difference maker.

This was Fluery's time to shine,and he did not disappoint,he was great,IMO.

We got to enjoy the league's best top two players in the league with Crosby & my main man,Ovieeeeeeeeeeee.

Remember,those two getting the hat-tricks in game 2,that was something.

Well,pittsburgh manage to beat the caps in 7 games.

The hurricane series,well 4 straight for the pens,so much for that.

WOW,what the heck happened to ward????

Malkin was a huge part of that series,to mention.

Finally,they knock off the best team out there today,the wingssssssss.

They took it all the way to game 7,and still many had the wings coming out on top.

May not have been the easiest road the pens took,but they captured the main prize,and in my opinion...they deserved it.

What a series that was,eh?

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The regular season means very little unfortunately if you make the playoffs anything can happen just take a look at 1993's cup winner.

To say that the current champs are undeserving does a huge disservice to the Penguins. Its not like they breezed through to the finals they played a great Washington and Carolina team. Then they took on and beat last year's champion Detroit Red wings if that's not earning the cup I don't know what is.

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That's the whole point of having a League Champion based on the season....and the Stanley Cup Champion.......they are two completely different things. To win the cup, you need to qualify for the playoffs and then win 4 best of 7 series. It reminds me of a conversation I had with a friend when we were looking out of it last spring. He said, we basically have to play playoff hockey for the rest of the season if we wanted to make it. I said damn I wish. We have to play way better than playoff hockey. We have to win 6 out of 7.....

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They made the playoffs

They then defeated the teams that they had to play to move on

Unltimatley they won the 16 games it takes to win the cup

Congrats to them, they are the 2008-2009 Champions

PS In 1993 a team won the Cup that probably didn't deserve it but they did and that's all that matters

Not to mention 71 and 73 as well

Not to mention 71 and 73 as well

I really did not want to mention 67 but my wife made me she a leaf fan. I know we have more than 1 TV!

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A "bad" loss is defined as losing to a team you shouldn't. There are 3 exceptions to a "bad" loss. 1. The loss is to a division rival (Division rivals always play each other tough.) 2. Your team is plagued with injuries at the time. 3. You've already clinched a playoff spot and are just

killing time until the post season.

Let's take a look at Pittsburgh's 2008-2009 season. They had 16 bad losses and were in 11th place for more than half the season. To me that is not worthy of a Stanley Cup. That is not of the calibur of a championship team. Take a look at who they lost to during the regular season. Both Crosby and Malkin were present in all the defeats.

Columbus

Phoenix

Minnesota

Vancouver

Carolina

Florida

Buffalo x 2

Montreal x 2

Ottawa x 3

Toronto x 3

I'm sorry, but to me the Penguins don't deserve the Stanley Cup.

Like everyone else, I totally disagree. The fact is that this team won when it counted & thats all that matters.

The regular season is nothing but a lead up to the playoffs - if it were anything else then teams would get more value out of the regular season than just home ice. If the league felt that who you won or lost to in the regular season was so important, they would issue first round Byes - but they dont.

The reality with the penguins is that their entire season turned around when 2 things happened: 1) they got a competent coach who was able to right the ship and 2) they got their #1 defensman back.

Both a good coach and a #1 dman are virtual prerequisites for a stanley cup win & I think nothing should be taken away from pittsburg for getting better after both happened.

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Well I agree with the OP in a small, small sense. Did the Pens deserve the cup? Absolutely, because under the current system , you are the champion if you win 4 best of 7 series. However, one can argue about how good that system is in ultimately defining a champion, because we of course want the best team to be champion come seasons end, that is the goal of a championship.

I have complaints about the current system, IMO 7 games is not enough to properly judge a team. Theres been enough statistical evidence throughout time to back this up.

I also feel 8 teams is too much, I see no need to let that many teams hav a shot at the Cup. If we want to truly define a champion, a better way IMO would be 4 teams on each side and a best of 11 series. It would still have flaws, but it would be better than the current one in minimizing luck in a series.

For fiscal reasons, none of this will ever happen though.

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A "bad" loss is defined as losing to a team you shouldn't. There are 3 exceptions to a "bad" loss. 1. The loss is to a division rival (Division rivals always play each other tough.) 2. Your team is plagued with injuries at the time. 3. You've already clinched a playoff spot and are just

killing time until the post season.

Let's take a look at Pittsburgh's 2008-2009 season. They had 16 bad losses and were in 11th place for more than half the season. To me that is not worthy of a Stanley Cup. That is not of the calibur of a championship team. Take a look at who they lost to during the regular season. Both Crosby and Malkin were present in all the defeats.

Columbus

Phoenix

Minnesota

Vancouver

Carolina

Florida

Buffalo x 2

Montreal x 2

Ottawa x 3

Toronto x 3

I'm sorry, but to me the Penguins don't deserve the Stanley Cup.

They won, they deserve! The team that was most deserving (whatever that team was) in your eyes lost, so they obviously did not deserve.

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Man, this topic was just eaten alive by the forum members. lol

we might be habs fans but we dont just sit there and say hmm well no way the pens deserved to win, they lost to teams this season...i dont think there is a more deserving team than the pens if you look at what they went through...from out of the playoffs to becoming the champions...thats determination...lol saying they dont deserve to be champions is a low blow

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we might be habs fans but we dont just sit there and say hmm well no way the pens deserved to win, they lost to teams this season...i dont think there is a more deserving team than the pens if you look at what they went through...from out of the playoffs to becoming the champions...thats determination...lol saying they dont deserve to be champions is a low blow

Well once again I bring up the fact that absolutely they deserve to be champions, they did everything needed to according to the NHL's system of awarding a championship, therefore they 100% deserve to be champions.

The problem IMO, is that is this system the best one to judge that? I say no.

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Well once again I bring up the fact that absolutely they deserve to be champions, they did everything needed to according to the NHL's system of awarding a championship, therefore they 100% deserve to be champions.

The problem IMO, is that is this system the best one to judge that? I say no.

Under the other system you proposed the regular season would be significantly shorter, about 66-70 games rather than 82-82, there would thus be a lot more luck in terms of who makes it to the post-season. A good example is the wild card race in baseball.

Pittsburgh was the best team this year. They were dominant in the playoffs, and they played well when it counted.

San Jose had the best regular season record but they were not the best team. The Anaheim Ducks massacred them in a best of 7 series.

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Under the other system you proposed the regular season would be significantly shorter, about 66-70 games rather than 82-82, there would thus be a lot more luck in terms of who makes it to the post-season. A good example is the wild card race in baseball.

Pittsburgh was the best team this year. They were dominant in the playoffs, and they played well when it counted.

San Jose had the best regular season record but they were not the best team. The Anaheim Ducks massacred them in a best of 7 series.

In the other system I proposed it would be around 75 games probably. A maximum of 33 playoff games isntead of 28. I would rather a small decrease in luck in the postseason, due to increased importance and increase luck in the regular season of the same proportion.

Pittsburgh was not the best team this year, I'd bet their win % out of all their games was not the best in the league in reg season+ playoffs. Boston was better than them just as an example.

Anaheim may have massacred the Sharks in a best of 7, but thats assumign a best of 7 is a proper meausre of a teams abilities.

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In the other system I proposed it would be around 75 games probably. A maximum of 33 playoff games isntead of 28. I would rather a small decrease in luck in the postseason, due to increased importance and increase luck in the regular season of the same proportion.

Pittsburgh was not the best team this year, I'd bet their win % out of all their games was not the best in the league in reg season+ playoffs. Boston was better than them just as an example.

Anaheim may have massacred the Sharks in a best of 7, but thats assumign a best of 7 is a proper meausre of a teams abilities.

i duno man, sometimes you got to throw the numbers and stats away and realize that these are human beings playing a sport not robots and that at some point the desire and will to win will outweigh what the numbers and statistics say...this is exactly what happened, the penguines defied the statisitics/numbers/odds...these teams arent made up of robots who only have a certain potential based on what the numbers say...the numbers only show a ranking because we are so concerned with rankings...what would an 11 game series do other than drag out the process? the ducks could/would still have eliminated the sharks, it would just take 2 more games to do it...yeah you want to give a team who finished higher in the standings a chance to come back but if they are just tired and dont have the will do it in 7 how can you be so sure that they'll do it in 11? see, the playoffs is beyond the numbers its about the will to win and if a group of men come together have have that will (like the penguines did) they will win...im not saying the other teams didnt have the will, the penguines just had that much more of a will/desire to win...and thats what happened...in my opinion anyways...i just dont think we can rely on statistics/numbers too much because you cannot measure the will to win and that plays a big role in it too...

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