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New Potential Ownership Group: The Phoenix/ Saskatoon Coyotes?


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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hock...article1231960/

If the National Hockey League approves the plan, the Coyotes would play “home games” in Saskatoon's 11,300- seat Credit Union Centre against the Montreal Canadiens, Calgary Flames, Edmonton Oilers, New Jersey Devils and Vancouver Canucks.

I'm all for it. It sounds similar to when the Expos were playing a bunch of their games in Puerto Rico. The Coyotes could slowly increase the number of games in Saskatoon every year, and (hopefully) eventually move the team back to Canada.

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That would be a huge success. I'm really surprised Canada only has 4 of 29 AHL teams (Hamilton, Toronto, Winnipeg and starting next season, Abbotsford, BC. We deserve more teams in the NHL and AHL.

Damn right we do. Hockey is a fringe sport in the U.S. just like Nascar and the UFC. While I'll admit that the NHL got some well deserved attention by the American media during this year's playoffs, hockey gets very little coverage during the summer if any. During the regular season it get some but very little on ESPN. NFL, MLB, and NBA gets coverage all year long.

I very much doubt a number of teams moving to Canada would effect the NHL and their media coverage since the NHL does a lousy job as is promoting the league. In fact I think it would strengthen the league if it got rid of alot of the dead weight teams and maybe even eliminate a few so that the talent isn't as diluted as it is now.

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Damn right we do. Hockey is a fringe sport in the U.S. just like Nascar and the UFC. While I'll admit that the NHL got some well deserved attention by the American media during this year's playoffs, hockey gets very little coverage during the summer if any. During the regular season it get some but very little on ESPN. NFL, MLB, and NBA gets coverage all year long.

Yes but US Population>>>>>>Canadian population. If you establish a sport there like they've done with Nascar look what happens (albeit its died out slightly due to poor expansion to the North). Its still big though.

They need a TV deal with ESPN, which should happen in 2 years from now, thats what will propel them into good times (and coincidentally the CBA expires then and Kelly says the PA wants a say in TV deals, looks like hes on the same page). I truly believe in that instance, with the NHL on the uptip and the NBA on the downtip, the NHL can make a run to overtake them.

I very much doubt a number of teams moving to Canada would effect the NHL and their media coverage since the NHL does a lousy job as is promoting the league. In fact I think it would strengthen the league if it got rid of alot of the dead weight teams and maybe even eliminate a few so that the talent isn't as diluted as it is now.

The NHL expanded too fast, and maybe 1 Canadian team can help during bad times, but to completely draw back IMO is stupid. You won't create a market if you don't estalish yourself like the Stars, Sharks, Ducks, Lightning, Avalanche etc. have done. You can't relocate at every sign of trouble, otherwise you'll have owners packing up every time their teams had 2-3 consectutive bad years which results in poor income.

----------------

A piece from the Arizona Republic:

They have not even tendered an offer yet, and would-be owners of the Coyotes already are yapping about having some “home” games in Saskatoon.

Once that news got out, the salivating again began north of the border.

This is, plain and simple, an idiotic idea. What a great way to alienate even more fans, especially season ticket holders. The bottom line is to bring more fans into the fold, not drive them away. For a franchise that prides itself on being fan-friendly, this scheme ranks with the worst of them.

The Board of Governors should squash this one in rapid fashion.

-Jim Gintonio of IceChips at the Arizona Republic.

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/JimGintonio/58846

I don't agree completelt with what he says, but the whole Canadian pride thing does need to come to an end, if people think its for good business fine at least thats a reason. If its because its "our game" please do people a favor and don't say anything.

The NHL should only consider this if they plan an eventual relocation, if they plan to keep the team in Phoenix, which they've made every indication they will, this idea won't get past the opening statements of a meeting.

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Moneypuck,

Sport is not a rational exercise like the development of solar panels or something like that, it's a game, which appeals to people's animal instincts.

Nationalism is thus an integral part of the equations.

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Moneypuck,

Sport is not a rational exercise like the development of solar panels or something like that, it's a game, which appeals to people's animal instincts.

Nationalism is thus an integral part of the equations.

Doesn't make it right, I understand why people feel that way, but its not nationalism, people think its nationalism. They think they have some sort of connection to the team, its evident in how people say "we" and "us" when referring to the Habs but they have no connection to the team other than the fact they watch them.

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Yes but US Population>>>>>>Canadian population. If you establish a sport there like they've done with Nascar look what happens (albeit its died out slightly due to poor expansion to the North). Its still big though.

They need a TV deal with ESPN, which should happen in 2 years from now, thats what will propel them into good times (and coincidentally the CBA expires then and Kelly says the PA wants a say in TV deals, looks like hes on the same page). I truly believe in that instance, with the NHL on the uptip and the NBA on the downtip, the NHL can make a run to overtake them.

The NHL expanded too fast, and maybe 1 Canadian team can help during bad times, but to completely draw back IMO is stupid. You won't create a market if you don't estalish yourself like the Stars, Sharks, Ducks, Lightning, Avalanche etc. have done. You can't relocate at every sign of trouble, otherwise you'll have owners packing up every time their teams had 2-3 consectutive bad years which results in poor income.

----------------

A piece from the Arizona Republic:

They have not even tendered an offer yet, and would-be owners of the Coyotes already are yapping about having some “home” games in Saskatoon.

Once that news got out, the salivating again began north of the border.

This is, plain and simple, an idiotic idea. What a great way to alienate even more fans, especially season ticket holders. The bottom line is to bring more fans into the fold, not drive them away. For a franchise that prides itself on being fan-friendly, this scheme ranks with the worst of them.

The Board of Governors should squash this one in rapid fashion.

-Jim Gintonio of IceChips at the Arizona Republic.

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/JimGintonio/58846

I don't agree completelt with what he says, but the whole Canadian pride thing does need to come to an end, if people think its for good business fine at least thats a reason. If its because its "our game" please do people a favor and don't say anything.

The NHL should only consider this if they plan an eventual relocation, if they plan to keep the team in Phoenix, which they've made every indication they will, this idea won't get past the opening statements of a meeting.

If they get a TV deal with ESPN NHL exposure will be amazing, as it is right now its on VS which is a cable channel that's not available to everyone and NBC on rare occasions. The NBA is on the decline and now's a great time for the NHL to make its move like you said.

As for moving and eliminating teams I'm not talking about the teams that have only been in the league a few years and haven't really gotten a chance to take root and generate a fan base. I'm talking about teams that have been in the league for a number of years and can't give tickets away ie Tampa Bay, Florida, Atlanta, Nashville and of course Phoenix. Each of those teams has been at its current location for at least 10 years now. If you can't make a go of it in 10 years its time to throw in the towel and relocate.

This whole Saskatoon idea is really a desperation move by a franchise that's hemorrhaging money if they can make it north of the border more power to them. As someone else said in this thread, it really reminds you of what the Expos did during their final years in Montreal.

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Doesn't make it right, I understand why people feel that way, but its not nationalism, people think its nationalism. They think they have some sort of connection to the team, its evident in how people say "we" and "us" when referring to the Habs but they have no connection to the team other than the fact they watch them.

a bit hypocritical though, isn't it? I assume you consider yourself a Habs fan? Why even cheer for any team unless you are playing on that team. Really you should just be watching the game for the hockey and not care which team wins.

Why cheer for Team Canada at the olympics unless you're on the team? Why feel proud when your country does something great on the international stage even if that had nothing to do with you?

I really don't get where you're going with this, unless someone has a direct connection to something it isn't right that they hope for it?

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a bit hypocritical though, isn't it? I assume you consider yourself a Habs fan? Why even cheer for any team unless you are playing on that team. Really you should just be watching the game for the hockey and not care which team wins.

I was referring more to the fact people feel a sense of attachment to the team.

Why cheer for Team Canada at the olympics unless you're on the team? Why feel proud when your country does something great on the international stage even if that had nothing to do with you?

I don't feel proud for my country.

I really don't get where you're going with this, unless someone has a direct connection to something it isn't right that they hope for it?

No but my point is people have a sense of attachment to teams and more specifically to their country in relation to hockey being "their game".

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I was referring more to the fact people feel a sense of attachment to the team.

If you're a fan isn't that a sense of pointless attachment too though

No but my point is people have a sense of attachment to teams and more specifically to their country in relation to hockey being "their game".

I see no problem with that, as valid as any other attachment in my opinion.

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This is stupid. I wish Bettman wasn't such an idiot about this. It's not like the Coyotes have been around for a while, or ever even had a real fanbase. Just move them to Hamilton already where they will have a real fan base and a thriving club for many years. Enough with the *****.

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http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=457863

and we have a WINNER!!

NHL unanimously approves Reinsdorf application ...

Surprise! Buttman wins again. He's found his new puppet owner. This joke of a franchise will fail.

This means almost nothing. The judge has made it pretty clear it will be an auction, I doubt he really cares who the NHL wants to let in. Additionally, all it means is he "can" be an NHL owner, the NHL isn't able to pick who to sell it to, bankrupt or not, the board of governors don't have this power.

What will hurt Ballsille isn't be rejected by the board, but the fact that he wants to move the team whereas the judge will give preference to owners who want to keep the team in Phoenix.

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This is stupid. I wish Bettman wasn't such an idiot about this. It's not like the Coyotes have been around for a while, or ever even had a real fanbase. Just move them to Hamilton already where they will have a real fan base and a thriving club for many years. Enough with the *****.

Since 1997 to be exact..12 years enough is enough. A smart commissioner would have moved this team before they declared bankruptcy.

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If you're a fan isn't that a sense of pointless attachment too though

Not really, as a fan you want a certain team to win. I don't have any sort of connection to the team other than wanting good things for them, I'm not devastated after a loss as I'm not giddy after a win. People want all sorts of things all the time, people want lower taxes, so you can say they're a fan of lower taxes, doesn't mean they have a attachment to lower taxes.

I see no problem with that, as valid as any other attachment in my opinion.

In my opinoin, its a problem when people start demanding relocation to Canada because its "their game".

Since 1997 to be exact..12 years enough is enough. A smart commissioner would have moved this team before they declared bankruptcy.

Here are some point totals since they moved to Phoenix

83

82

90

90

90

95

78

68

81

67

83

79

I don't care what team you are, you move to a market that is unfamiilar to a sport and you stink like that you will alienate a fanbase. On that note, I'm probably leaning towards a Phoenix relocation because of the circumstances, in my opinoin they could be saved if they go to Scottsdale, but this whole predictament is not because Phoenix is a bad hockey market.

As for moving and eliminating teams I'm not talking about the teams that have only been in the league a few years and haven't really gotten a chance to take root and generate a fan base. I'm talking about teams that have been in the league for a number of years and can't give tickets away ie Tampa Bay, Florida, Atlanta, Nashville and of course Phoenix. Each of those teams has been at its current location for at least 10 years now. If you can't make a go of it in 10 years its time to throw in the towel and relocate.

Check Tampa and for that matter Florida's attendance when their teams were competetive. Tampa was near the top of the league in attendnace post-lockout.

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Check Tampa and for that matter Florida's attendance when their teams were competetive. Tampa was near the top of the league in attendnace post-lockout.

It doesn't really matter though. If the only time these teams can generate ticket sales is when they are hoisting the cup, then they are bound to fail. You also have to take into consideration the fanboys who jump on the bandwagon during the cup run, or the non-team fans who just go because they want to watch playoff hockey/the stanley cup finals.

I mean look at the Blackhawks for example. They were in a slump for a loooooong time and yet they still kept a solid fanbase. If one of these southern teams was in a slump like that...well....just look at what is happening to the Coyotes.

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It doesn't really matter though. If the only time these teams can generate ticket sales is when they are hoisting the cup, then they are bound to fail. You also have to take into consideration the fanboys who jump on the bandwagon during the cup run, or the non-team fans who just go because they want to watch playoff hockey/the stanley cup finals.

I mean look at the Blackhawks for example. They were in a slump for a loooooong time and yet they still kept a solid fanbase. If one of these southern teams was in a slump like that...well....just look at what is happening to the Coyotes.

Thats a joke right?

2003 NHL attendance Chicago 24th overall at 14,794

2004 NHL attendance Chicago 27th overall at 13,253

2006 NHL attendance Chicago 29th overall at 13,318

2007 NHL attendance Chicago 29th overall at 12,727

2008 NHL attendance Chicago 19th overall at 16,814

2009 NHL attendance Chicago 1st overall at 22,247

Yep no bandwagoners there.. solid fanbase :rolleyes:

In fact Phoenix's 14,875 last year was about the same if not better than when the Blackhawks were struggling.

Chicago= Joke of a franchise.

On any matter though on your little point here,

If the only time these teams can generate ticket sales is when they are hoisting the cup, then they are bound to fail.

Welcome to the world of pro sports, where if your name isn't the Yankees, Cowboys, Lakers or Habs you gotta give the fans a product for them to dish out cash to you. Heck the Habs even had declining attendance during the dark days of the 90's.

Wins=attedance in 90% of pro sports venues, its just how it works.

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Not really, as a fan you want a certain team to win. I don't have any sort of connection to the team other than wanting good things for them, I'm not devastated after a loss as I'm not giddy after a win. People want all sorts of things all the time, people want lower taxes, so you can say they're a fan of lower taxes, doesn't mean they have a attachment to lower taxes.

In my opinoin, its a problem when people start demanding relocation to Canada because its "their game".

Here are some point totals since they moved to Phoenix

83

82

90

90

90

95

78

68

81

67

83

79

I don't care what team you are, you move to a market that is unfamiilar to a sport and you stink like that you will alienate a fanbase. On that note, I'm probably leaning towards a Phoenix relocation because of the circumstances, in my opinoin they could be saved if they go to Scottsdale, but this whole predictament is not because Phoenix is a bad hockey market.

Check Tampa and for that matter Florida's attendance when their teams were competetive. Tampa was near the top of the league in attendnace post-lockout.

Tampa yes, the Panthers not so much. I'm not sure what the attendance numbers were when Florida made it to the finals in 96 but that was 13 years ago, these are the numbers for the last 9 seasons and it isn't pretty for Florida.

2001:

Florida 26th in attendance

Tampa Bay 25th in attendance

2002:

Florida 18th in attendance

Tampa Bay 20th in attendance

2003:

Florida 20th in attendance

Tampa Bay 16th in attendance

2004:

Florida 17th in attendance

Tampa Bay 12th in attendance

2005:

Lockout

2006:

Florida 19th in attendance

Tampa Bay 2nd in attendance

2007:

Florida 22nd in attendance

Tampa Bay 3rd in attendance

2008:

Florida 25th in attendance

Tampa Bay 8th in attendance

2009:

Florida 24th in attendance

Tampa Bay 21st in attendance

Take a guess who finished in the bottom 3 the last 2 years, you guessed it Phoenix.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance

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there is no guarantee that a franchise in hamilton will have a solid fan base and be successful either...realistically, if hamilton got a franchise and it turned out to be another cyotes (in terms of standings in the league) how can anyone here say attendance won't sink and suffer...if anything send the team back to winnipeg...i dont see why ontario needs a 3rd team...i dont understand why california needs 3 either...with odds like that they should be winning more cups lol...

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How about posting a source for your numbers?

ESPN

Tampa yes, the Panthers not so much. I'm not sure what the attendance numbers were when Florida made it to the finals in 96 but that was 13 years ago, these are the numbers for the last 9 seasons and it isn't pretty for Florida.

2001:

Florida 26th in attendance

Tampa Bay 25th in attendance

2002:

Florida 18th in attendance

Tampa Bay 20th in attendance

2003:

Florida 20th in attendance

Tampa Bay 16th in attendance

2004:

Florida 17th in attendance

Tampa Bay 12th in attendance

2005:

Lockout

2006:

Florida 19th in attendance

Tampa Bay 2nd in attendance

2007:

Florida 22nd in attendance

Tampa Bay 3rd in attendance

2008:

Florida 25th in attendance

Tampa Bay 8th in attendance

2009:

Florida 24th in attendance

Tampa Bay 21st in attendance

Take a guess who finished in the bottom 3 the last 2 years, you guessed it Phoenix.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance

Well Phoenix also has been a terrible team the last 2 years, as I pointed out above about Chicago, Wins=Attendance.

BTW I was referring to the mid 90's Panthers, your started your analysis when they rang off 4 consecutive seasons under 80 points.

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