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The Next City In The States To Have A Team.....


whalerfan

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Hartford will not get a team again.

There is a reason why they went to Carolina. The Whalers just didn't have a big enough fan base.

I guess to answer that I re-post what I just posted on the whalers board.....

remember the owner of the whalers in '97 demanded a new arena with all the perks...HE GOT IT

he demanded 12,000 season tickets....HE GOT IT, by the way these were individual season ticket holders

BUT YET HE WAS STILL ALLOWED TO LEAVE TOWN

remember we had a downtown parade for winning one first round against the Nordiques....40,000 showed up

remember there also wasn't much to cheer about ....18 season...two of them over .500....any American NHL team would suffer in attendance with records like that

.................Heres my post from the whaler board

I agree with some of your points. Yes, attendance was dwindling but look at the big picture. The Whaler organization was always bush league. The treated the whalers as if they were still in the WHA. I have always thought they never grew out of that bush league thinking. Being a season ticket as you were, you know this is true. I am 46 years old, I was watching the whalers when they played at the Big E....I was a young kid but I remember. I know the management was always sub par. Marketing was non existent. The whalers did nothing to reach across to New Haven and Waterbury instead they seem to just concentrate on the Hartford area and even that was minimal.

Also take into consideration their record. As with any other pro sports teams ( with the exception of the Canadian hockey teams) many teams have attendance that falls when the team record falls. This was the case in Chicago, Washington, New York ( Islanders), St.Louis and even Boston. Ever wonder how 5,000 Montreal fans can get tickets on a Saturday night in Boston?? The whalers had the misfortune of having many and I mean many bad seasons ( only had , I believe 2 winning seasons). I would think and I know it is difficult to maintain 15,000 plus to watch a very poor product on the ice...LIKE ANY OTHER CITY. I refuse to accept the fact that Hartford leaving was due mostly to the fans. If one truly believes that they don't understand the whole picture.

I was there watching the whalers sweep the first place Nordiques. I saw the frenzied fans cheering, hungry for a winning team. I saw the team bring Montreal to 7 games with all the bars in the Hartford area packed with hockey fans ( I was in East Hartford with a packed house at the Sports page cafe) cheering on the whalers. I saw people crying after the Lemieux goal. I saw thousands upon thousands show up for a parade to honor a team that won a playoff round. You may say I am just living in the past but I am bringing up facts of what this city is capable of.

Imagine if it was the whalers who had won the cup in 2006. Imagin the crowds packed into a new arena, imagine the noise after waiting so long for a winning team. Imagine what it would have been like. To compare the cup celebration in Raleigh was in the RBC parking lot with 30,000 showing up. We had over that for a downtown parade for winning ONE ROUND. Blame the fans , I don't think so. I agree with you on the '92 playoffs. I was there and was in shock with the turnout. Maybe many expected a sweep by the habs...we did have a very awful season and were very lucky to make the playoffs. Who knows but I'm not going to sum up the fans by that one playoff round. The big picture must be taken into consideration.

Also, if the NHL was back then as it is now the turnout might have alkso been different. It is more small market friendly and Hartford could have survived. Whats really important here are the BIG FACTORS. Gov. John Rowland did not have his heart into saving the whalers. He was too busy being corrupt and chasing a pipe dream called the patriots. Gary Bettman had an agenda when he came into power.. Hartford, Quebec and Winnipeg were not in that agenda. He did not raise a finger to save any of those teams. Although recently he was in Pittsburgh, Nashville and Phoenix to save those teams. He made his presence well known and did all he could to save those teams...in fact he was quoted as saying " The NHL does not run out on cities".......really, Gary is that so? Finally, Peter Karmanos.....Weicker rallied behind this man (later served on his compuware board) to get him approved to purchase the whalers. This man also had his own agenda and keeping the whalers in Hartford was not one of them from day one. He would make a demand and to his surprise it was met. So then he would have to make yet another demand and those were met. He kept pushing until the State had enough and he had his way. Ask yourself how a city and its fans could make a season ticket demand, offer a new arena with all the perks and yet still have a team move......answer it wouldn't be allowed. Bettman wouldn't allow it but it happened with us. He was nowhere to be seen.

Everything that could possibly go wrong did...it was a perfect storm if you will. A commissioner that cared nothing for Hartford, an owner that had a patsy for the killing of the whalers ( the fans) and a Gov who had his fingers in too much stuff to give much thought to the whalers. Its sad that there are still those who would blame the fans for the loss of the whalers. Perhaps one day when this NHL and it's expansion into non-hockey cities begins to fail ( the ice is starting to crack now) will the powers to be understand that they made a BIG mistake not working to keep teams in those three cities.....Hartford, Quebec and Winnipeg

Now I understand I post alot about the Whalers here on a habs board.....reason being that I was a whaler fan but before 1979 I was a habs fan ( being that I am from St.Georges) now that the whalers are gone , I have returned to my roots and I am cheering on the habs again. HEY , I even risked my life wearing a habs jersey in damn Boston last year...lol....A habs fan I am.

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I would love to bring back all the other teams like the Nordiques, Whalers, Jets, Rockies, Seals and other hockey teams from other provinces and states in North America. Instead of having the eastern conference and the west, we would have a prince of whales division and ... ( i forgot the other name)

this was how the league was separated when the Nordiques were playing...

There will be 10 teams instead of 8 making the playoffs and there will be 1 more round in the playoffs.

The more teams, the Better!

It would bring a fanbase to every state and province. Yes there will oviously be alot of money involved in the project of having a team in every state and province but, I think its worth it!

GO HABS GO!!

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Hartford will not get a team again.

There is a reason why they went to Carolina. The Whalers just didn't have a big enough fan base.

Think this poster forgets that Denver once had a team called the Rockies. They left due to financial reasons. They got a team back in Denver and except for last year the Avs are doing well financially. Minnesota had the North Stars and they left town. Now the Wild have great attendance a nice rink etc.. So never say never.

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I would love to bring back all the other teams like the Nordiques, Whalers, Jets, Rockies, Seals and other hockey teams from other provinces and states in North America. Instead of having the eastern conference and the west, we would have a prince of whales division and ... ( i forgot the other name)

this was how the league was separated when the Nordiques were playing...

There will be 10 teams instead of 8 making the playoffs and there will be 1 more round in the playoffs.

The more teams, the Better!

It would bring a fanbase to every state and province. Yes there will oviously be alot of money involved in the project of having a team in every state and province but, I think its worth it!

GO HABS GO!!

Oh god no. 16 teams total is more then enough. Having the stanley cup hoiseted on Canada day/4th of july would suck. The season is long enough now with it going on for close to 10 months out of the year.

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It's really sad that Winnipeg, Quebec and Hartford left their respective markets. Where was Bettman when these cities were going to lose their teams? That's why this whole Phoenix situation really makes me angry and shows how much of a hypocrite Bettman is.

I'm pretty sure the league stuck by those teams for a decent while even when they were losing money, had poor arena deals etc. etc. Like with Phoenix, the league also wants to avoid relocation as much as possible (to avoid rapid relocation and in turn market depreciation), but at some point when they play all their cards and still they got nothing they have to get up and move.

On the playoff topics, personally I'd rather see 4 or 6 teams make it, the 8 is just ridiculous.

EDIT: On-topic though, I like Wisconsin (and prolly Milwaukeee if the Admirals approve and theres a good arena there).

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I'm pretty sure the league stuck by those teams for a decent while even when they were losing money, had poor arena deals etc. etc. Like with Phoenix, the league also wants to avoid relocation as much as possible (to avoid rapid relocation and in turn market depreciation), but at some point when they play all their cards and still they got nothing they have to get up and move.

On the playoff topics, personally I'd rather see 4 or 6 teams make it, the 8 is just ridiculous.

EDIT: On-topic though, I like Wisconsin (and prolly Milwaukeee if the Admirals approve and theres a good arena there).

For all the anti Canadian hoopla it would have been very easy for the league to give up and move Ottawa, Calgary and Edmonton at some point in the late 90's - early 00's. The league stuck by those markets, they stuck by Buffalo. For any pro sports league relocation is the absolute last resort, as it should be.

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If it was my pick: Seattle ... they have no arena, but minor details :lol:

The keyArena is not all that bad. It sits about 15000 currently for hockey. If someone put up their own money, it could easily be upgraded. The taxpayers in Seattle won't foot the bill. The NBA Sonics left in part because the public wouldn't fund an upgrade.

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I'm pretty sure the league stuck by those teams for a decent while even when they were losing money, had poor arena deals etc. etc. Like with Phoenix, the league also wants to avoid relocation as much as possible (to avoid rapid relocation and in turn market depreciation), but at some point when they play all their cards and still they got nothing they have to get up and move.

On the playoff topics, personally I'd rather see 4 or 6 teams make it, the 8 is just ridiculous.

EDIT: On-topic though, I like Wisconsin (and prolly Milwaukeee if the Admirals approve and theres a good arena there).

Guess you didn't read my posts....the NHL did nothing to save those teams. If I am mistaken , I will admit it. There is a huge difference in their actions to save teams now compared to then. Again, when a city is held ransom and their team is held hostage with demands of a new arena and a certian season ticket holder base ARE MET and yet is still allowed to leave how is that sticking by those teams. The league in my opinion became a joke when they let teams leave traditional hockey markets ( ESPECIALLY QUEBEC) for non-traditional cities.....which is slowly beginning to fail miserably. Although I don't want to see the NHL become more of a joke , I'll risk it if it means the failure and departure of Bettman.

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Guess you didn't read my posts....the NHL did nothing to save those teams. If I am mistaken , I will admit it. There is a huge difference in their actions to save teams now compared to then. Again, when a city is held ransom and their team is held hostage with demands of a new arena and a certian season ticket holder base ARE MET and yet is still allowed to leave how is that sticking by those teams. The league in my opinion became a joke when they let teams leave traditional hockey markets ( ESPECIALLY QUEBEC) for non-traditional cities.....which is slowly beginning to fail miserably. Although I don't want to see the NHL become more of a joke , I'll risk it if it means the failure and departure of Bettman.

Again, the NHL does not move teams, it is a vote by the owners/Board of Governors. So you can cry Bettman and the NHL sucks but bottom line is the leagues executives didn't decide it nor was it their choice.

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Again, the NHL does not move teams, it is a vote by the owners/Board of Governors. So you can cry Bettman and the NHL sucks but bottom line is the leagues executives didn't decide it nor was it their choice.

I understand how a team moves but I also understand the influence Bettman has in that decision. So, when Bettman is invisible and says nothing and does nothing to help that team stay then they end up leaving. Interesting how Bettman was very visible with Pittsburgh, Nashville and Phoenix and those teams are still intact. Bettman had a role , a larger role than you think I guess in the demise of those teams.

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Again, the NHL does not move teams, it is a vote by the owners/Board of Governors. So you can cry Bettman and the NHL sucks but bottom line is the leagues executives didn't decide it nor was it their choice.

Then why did Bettman/Daly send out a letter to the owners saying how they're planning on stopping Balsillie from buying and moving the Coyotes?

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I understand how a team moves but I also understand the influence Bettman has in that decision. So, when Bettman is invisible and says nothing and does nothing to help that team stay then they end up leaving. Interesting how Bettman was very visible with Pittsburgh, Nashville and Phoenix and those teams are still intact. Bettman had a role , a larger role than you think I guess in the demise of those teams.

Really you do? Are you in those Board of Governors meetings?

Then why did Bettman/Daly send out a letter to the owners saying how they're planning on stopping Balsillie from buying and moving the Coyotes?

Depends the timeframe, it was now, it could be inrelation to the denied ownershio application and they're fighting the legality of it, or just a recommndation from the executive office in which case is just a suggestion and the BOG can still call what they want.

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