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Kirk Muller 2009-10


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Still trying to figure out how he kept his job through the Off-Season of Long Knives.

no idea. we got rid of jarvis, lever, carbo and melanson but kept muller? who has zero chance of becoming head coach? who has no more familiarity with the new players than martin?

he looks good in the team photo i guess.

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So it's time to pick on Muller now? I have to keep up with these things.

I don't think anyone is picking on him. But he is the sole holdover from the previous coaching staff, so it's only reasonable for us to wonder why he kept his job and whether he has been effective this season in his designated role, whatever that may be.

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no idea. we got rid of jarvis, lever, carbo and melanson but kept muller?

Well, I presume there's something that gainey & co saw in Muller they still liked.

you dont have to change everyone/everything just because the rest went. Who knows what the management is seeing/looking for in an assistant.

who has zero chance of becoming head coach?

Sorry, on what fact do you base this? Seems like a totally arbitrary and bizarre statement - not to mention the fact that we arent asking him to be a head coach - if he can be a competent assistant & maintain that job for the next 2, 4 or 40 years, who cares? Our goal in finding the right assistant shouldnt be whether or not he can one day be a head coach.

who has no more familiarity with the new players than martin?

True, but he has 2 things Martin doesnt:

1 ) Familiarity with the existing players (which is still over half the team) and

2 ) A history in the NHL - at an elite level. He's also just a smidgen older than many of our players. He relates to them better than a 57 year old career coach who never played an nhl game - for what thats worth.

Again, I have no idea if these (or what) criteria are what kept him his job, but there certainly are some potential obvious reasons for it, true or not.

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Despite how fast we are, and the fact we won last night I'm concerned about one thing in particular. To many outside shots, we're not setting up in the slot, and we don't have much of a prescence in front of the net. Any team we play against protects the net, forcing outside shots, we were lucky we forced overtime last night.

I think Cammalleri, Gomez, Gionta, Plekanec, to name a few will all have better chances if we can tie up the opposing defence with a body in front of the net.

Another concern despite his stellar play, is the large rebounds Price has been giving up. The Predators really took advantage of that, and our defence wasn't able to rest. In a fast paced game the more rebounds the more chances for uncharacteristic errors due to fatigue. It doesn't hurt to stop the play and allow your "D" to regroup. A physically fit hockey player may only need 20 seconds to recover.....If you think about it your defence plays 24 plus minutes a game.

Stopage of play is a good thing !!!

Stamina is often the most overlooked attribute of an athlete, it is also the most technical....

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He relates to them better than a 57 year old career coach who never played an nhl game - for what thats worth.

I doubt his nhl career allows his to relate better. It didn't work for carbo, gretzky, etc.

anyway, i am not sure why you think anyone is picking on him. we are struggling mightily in player development and execution, and as the asst coach, I am simply asking what he does and why he is still around. martin, gainey and most of the players being questioned, i don't see why we can't do the same for muller.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Kirk Muller was the assistant coach in charge of the offense last year. And I am assuming that he is in the same role since Martin is "supposedly" the defensive guru. :huh:

I asked this question over and over and over again last year. Why is Muller here?

It is obvious that he is clueless when it comes to developing an offensive scheme. The Canadiens cannot complete a pass. They are all standing around in their own zone and thus cannot break out of their zone. The other teams have figured out that if you send in two guys to forecheck that the Canadiens will not be able to get the puck out of their end unless they just randomly fire it in the general direction of the Red Line.

Pathetic. Beyond pathetic. And yes, it is the exact same problem that we had last year.....and Muller was there leading the "practices???" last year.

Muller has to go. And he has to go now or else get used to the cellar as the Leafs pass us by.

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Muller doesn't get much love but apparently he runs the PK which has been absolutely outstanding lately. The last 5 or 6 games now we've been perfect on the PK and there have been plenty of opportunities. Wel done Kirk.

Just thought I'd add, PK % is now at 82.7% good for 10th in the league.

Wow. If he runs the PK then anyone who has been slamming him lately deserves to be eating crow, because the PK has been nothing short of phenomenal lately.

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Muller doesn't get much love but apparently he runs the PK which has been absolutely outstanding lately. The last 5 or 6 games now we've been perfect on the PK and there have been plenty of opportunities. Wel done Kirk.

Just thought I'd add, PK % is now at 82.7% good for 10th in the league.

Five or six games isn't a whole season. Let's see where the PK ends up before we start handing out kudos to Muller, who should be thanking his lucky stars that he still has a job in the organization. I am still trying to figure out how he survived the off-season purge. Sure, he's a positive presence behind the bench, but this isn't cheerleader try-out. We need more from Muller than energy and enthusiasm.

I don't know. He was nothing but a high school coach before we hired him, he had no real credentials to coach at this level, and after three years behind the bench, I'm really not impressed.

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I don't know why he stuck either, and frankly have never really said anything positive about him because I didn't what he brought to the team. But in the pre-game Martin said he runs the PK which has been really great lately. A few good games does not a season make, but at least this is evidence of some tangible contribution by Muller, even if it is a small sample so far. (asside from the cheerleading ;))

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Five or six games isn't a whole season. Let's see where the PK ends up before we start handing out kudos to Muller, who should be thanking his lucky stars that he still has a job in the organization. I am still trying to figure out how he survived the off-season purge. Sure, he's a positive presence behind the bench, but this isn't cheerleader try-out. We need more from Muller than energy and enthusiasm.

I don't know. He was nothing but a high school coach before we hired him, he had no real credentials to coach at this level, and after three years behind the bench, I'm really not impressed.

Well, last season the penalty kill finished 11th overall at 82.4%. So far this season they're currently sitting 10th at 83.3% while also being perfect in their last 6 games killing off 26 penalties.

It looks like he's doing a lot more than just being a "cheerleader" as you say.

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Lol @ putting such a high emphasis of special teams success on the coach.

I'm sure he has a role in it, but could it be that Scott Gomez, Tomas Plekanec, Hal Gill, Roman Hamrlik, Travis Moen etc. have just been and always have been at least for the most part good penalty killers?

:(

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Lol @ putting such a high emphasis of special teams success on the coach.

I'm sure he has a role in it, but could it be that Scott Gomez, Tomas Plekanec, Hal Gill, Roman Hamrlik, Travis Moen etc. have just been and always have been at least for the most part good penalty killers?

Kirk will show them where to position themselves in all PK situations but in the end the bys are the ones out there doing it

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Lol @ putting such a high emphasis of special teams success on the coach.

I'm sure he has a role in it, but could it be that Scott Gomez, Tomas Plekanec, Hal Gill, Roman Hamrlik, Travis Moen etc. have just been and always have been at least for the most part good penalty killers?

Yep, I'd agree with that. I don't see anything fancy about what they're doing, just good honest PK work from players with the ability to anticipate a developing play and break it up. All the players mentioned have been historically quite good on the penalty kill.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Yep, I'd agree with that. I don't see anything fancy about what they're doing, just good honest PK work from players with the ability to anticipate a developing play and break it up. All the players mentioned have been historically quite good on the penalty kill.

yes, although they are pressuring the puck carriers more this year I find. A feat they can accomplish with good execution because of their speed, and I think that the coaches recognized this and stuctured the PK as such.

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yes, although they are pressuring the puck carriers more this year I find. A feat they can accomplish with good execution because of their speed, and I think that the coaches recognized this and stuctured the PK as such.

Interesting point. I guess this is why guys like Sergei are seeing PK time over former PK mainstays like Lapierre.

To me, though, a good penalty-killing forward's primary attribute should be intelligent anticipation, not speed per se. Speed is great, of course, but when the other team has the box set up, speed isn't necessarily going to be tremendously important unless you've already broken contain and you need to accelerate past the enemy point men to start an odd-man rush. On the other hand, the ability to read a play as and before it develops is valuable in any PK situation, because it allows you to be proactive and break up plays rather than waiting for the play to happen. It could be as simple as getting a stick in a passing lane at the last second without telegraphing your intentions. Just like a good cornerback will bait the enemy QB into making an ill-advised throw by playing off his receiver for a while, then breaking on the ball for an interception, a good PK can bait the other team into starting plays which he subsequently breaks up because he already has a bead on what they're doing. He's thinking a step ahead instead of being purely reactive.

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Interesting point. I guess this is why guys like Sergei are seeing PK time over former PK mainstays like Lapierre.

To me, though, a good penalty-killing forward's primary attribute should be intelligent anticipation, not speed per se. Speed is great, of course, but when the other team has the box set up, speed isn't necessarily going to be tremendously important unless you've already broken contain and you need to accelerate past the enemy point men to start an odd-man rush. On the other hand, the ability to read a play as and before it develops is valuable in any PK situation, because it allows you to be proactive and break up plays rather than waiting for the play to happen. It could be as simple as getting a stick in a passing lane at the last second without telegraphing your intentions. Just like a good cornerback will bait the enemy QB into making an ill-advised throw by playing off his receiver for a while, then breaking on the ball for an interception, a good PK can bait the other team into starting plays which he subsequently breaks up because he already has a bead on what they're doing. He's thinking a step ahead instead of being purely reactive.

Agreed. Speed is always nice of course but the PK is one of the situations where speed actually probably helps the least. It`s generally a really controlled situation that doesn`t involve much skating that`s why guys like Gill are great at it. It`s a little more important for forwards especially if you want to create shorthanded chances but hockey sense and anticipation are way more important on the PK.

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Interesting point. I guess this is why guys like Sergei are seeing PK time over former PK mainstays like Lapierre.

To me, though, a good penalty-killing forward's primary attribute should be intelligent anticipation, not speed per se. Speed is great, of course, but when the other team has the box set up, speed isn't necessarily going to be tremendously important unless you've already broken contain and you need to accelerate past the enemy point men to start an odd-man rush. On the other hand, the ability to read a play as and before it develops is valuable in any PK situation, because it allows you to be proactive and break up plays rather than waiting for the play to happen. It could be as simple as getting a stick in a passing lane at the last second without telegraphing your intentions. Just like a good cornerback will bait the enemy QB into making an ill-advised throw by playing off his receiver for a while, then breaking on the ball for an interception, a good PK can bait the other team into starting plays which he subsequently breaks up because he already has a bead on what they're doing. He's thinking a step ahead instead of being purely reactive.

Good points. This is why I think offensive players make good penalty killers. They see the same passing lanes as the player holding onto the puck which is why they know where to keep their stick and when to burst into an open area to pick off a pass. Players like Plekanec, Gomez and Sergei are passers on offense which is why on the PK they seem to have a knack for breaking up passing plays, they are seeing the ice but from the inverted point of view.

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  • 3 weeks later...
Interesting point. I guess this is why guys like Sergei are seeing PK time over former PK mainstays like Lapierre.

To me, though, a good penalty-killing forward's primary attribute should be intelligent anticipation, not speed per se. Speed is great, of course, but when the other team has the box set up, speed isn't necessarily going to be tremendously important unless you've already broken contain and you need to accelerate past the enemy point men to start an odd-man rush. On the other hand, the ability to read a play as and before it develops is valuable in any PK situation, because it allows you to be proactive and break up plays rather than waiting for the play to happen. It could be as simple as getting a stick in a passing lane at the last second without telegraphing your intentions. Just like a good cornerback will bait the enemy QB into making an ill-advised throw by playing off his receiver for a while, then breaking on the ball for an interception, a good PK can bait the other team into starting plays which he subsequently breaks up because he already has a bead on what they're doing. He's thinking a step ahead instead of being purely reactive.

Agreed. Speed is always nice of course but the PK is one of the situations where speed actually probably helps the least. It`s generally a really controlled situation that doesn`t involve much skating that`s why guys like Gill are great at it. It`s a little more important for forwards especially if you want to create shorthanded chances but hockey sense and anticipation are way more important on the PK.

Good points. This is why I think offensive players make good penalty killers. They see the same passing lanes as the player holding onto the puck which is why they know where to keep their stick and when to burst into an open area to pick off a pass. Players like Plekanec, Gomez and Sergei are passers on offense which is why on the PK they seem to have a knack for breaking up passing plays, they are seeing the ice but from the inverted point of view.

Great points guys.

While I do agree that anticipation is fundamental for a good PK, the fact that our PK this year seems to have an 'edge' must be due to the speed. The anticipation was there in the past (as Kovi for example is one of the best in the game at anticipating passes), and speed seems to favor them to get back into position if they make the 'wrong' choice. If you notice, There is much more pressure being put on the puck carriers, and they will either a) cough it up b] make a pass (good or bad) to another teamate or c) try to stick handle through the approaching player (which rarely works). In both the cases for b] and c) the forwards tend to have the quickness to get back into position with their sticks in the passing lane.

I can remember in midget, I played BB both years and this seemed to be the deciding factor between an average PK and top in the league as the coaching staff and bulk of the players remained the same, only there were a few more 'speedy' forwards that were added to the mix. I guess you could argue that the familiarity between teamates added to the chemistry which made the PK click, but I'll stick with my hypothesis until it is outright refuted :P

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I'm only half-serious here, but I'm starting to wonder about Muller's influence on the team.

This team plays the same garbage style it did last season. But we have a new head coach and a plethora of new players. And if you're going to tell me that guys like Markov, Hamrlik, and Plekanec are the problem, I just won't believe you. :)

The only continuity on the coaching staff is Muller. Coincidence?

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I'm only half-serious here, but I'm starting to wonder about Muller's influence on the team.

This team plays the same garbage style it did last season. But we have a new head coach and a plethora of new players. And if you're going to tell me that guys like Markov, Hamrlik, and Plekanec are the problem, I just won't believe you. :)

The only continuity on the coaching staff is Muller. Coincidence?

so we still suck this year because of Muller? thats the reason?

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