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Brian Burke


jerman66

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alright, so yea he's now the GM of the leafs..but i've respected this guy for years. he can make something out of nothing, great business man, and what he wants..he gets.

i know none of us want to admit this, but let's accept it, in a matter of 9 months he turned the leafs from a joke to a scary team in just about every sense of the word with the kessel deal.

he gave up 2 firsts and a 2nd for kessel, but signed 4 top prospects out of college, 3 of whom had projected rankings above any top 3-30 player in the upcoming drafts. he hardly paid a premium for a potential 50 goal scorer who is 21 years of age...and as habs fans, we all know how dynamic he is with or without savard.

i'm genuinely scared to watch this team, and haven't been since (ever?) lol. i'm just really hoping we can compete, and that our forward acquisitions don't get rocked too hard.

this guy deserves all the credit in the world for doing such an amazing job. like really, think about what he's done there. i know it sucks that it had to be the leafs of all teams, but the man himself deserves a ton of recognition.

thoughts on the toronto situation? please no ignorance

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Burke is a good GM and all, but like Gainey he's overrated.

I think they definitely overpaid a bit for Kessel and there are some factors that they should be concerned with, the loss of an elite play making center will hurt his numbers in the immediate future and the fact that his SH% doubled in 1 year has to be a concern it's really not a start that will or should vary that much from season to season with out some kind of external factor or a little bit of luck. Gomez had the samething happen to him the year he scored 33 goals.

With that being said, despite the steep price they did need to add a goal scorer and he is young and will grow with their young team. I don't really understand your point, sure Burke has made them better but it really started with Fletcher who made some pretty smart moves and there are a lot of organizations in this league doing smarter things that we never talk about because they don't play in a Montreal or Toronto type of market.

Also none of the college free agents he signed were projected as top 3 in any drafts lol. They're good kids, and nice to get for free but that is a huge over statement of facts, even Burke said they're more in the range of 2nd round types of talent. Sure it eased the blow of the Kessel trade and it was a luxury they didn't have a few years ago but one could argue the contract given to Kessel is a bigger blow than the picks awarded anyway.

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i know none of us want to admit this, but let's accept it, in a matter of 9 months he turned the leafs from a joke to a scary team in just about every sense of the word with the kessel deal.

You're way premature.

The leafs were bad last year but there's still no guarantee they're much better. Yes the Toronto media is making bold predictions but the very real fact is that they improved in some areas, weakened in others. They still have some gaping holes & major depth problems.

I wouldnt be surprised to see the make the playoffs - just like I wouldnt be surprised to see them finish dead last. Right now its a crap shoot for them.

I DO Think that Burke has made a plan & very diligently gone about making it fall into place. Whether or not its a good plan, I dont know. Time will tell.

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You're way premature.

The leafs were bad last year but there's still no guarantee they're much better. Yes the Toronto media is making bold predictions but the very real fact is that they improved in some areas, weakened in others. They still have some gaping holes & major depth problems.

I wouldnt be surprised to see the make the playoffs - just like I wouldnt be surprised to see them finish dead last. Right now its a crap shoot for them.

I DO Think that Burke has made a plan & very diligently gone about making it fall into place. Whether or not its a good plan, I dont know. Time will tell.

true, true. i don't see where that team has been weakened. maybe i've just been overwhelmed with seeing nothing but positive from toronto in years..but they got bigger, they got tougher, they got better on defense, better in goal..and now better upfront. true that time will tell, however. they'll need a good year from grabovski again..oohhh man i can't wait for him to visit the bell hahaha

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they got bigger

true - but they also got slower. If komi plays like he did last year in place of Kubina, they didnt get better on defense. I know a lot of people are very excited about Beauchemin but I think he's nothing but overrated. First he's had injury problems, second, he's not particularly strong defensively and third - when an "offensive" defensman cant break 40 points (beauchemin's best ever was 36pts - he's only broken 30 twice) then you're in trouble. Heck, Mara has broken 40 several times. ;)

they got tougher

Probably.

better in goal..

Totally unproven. The "monster" has never played an NHL game & who knows how he will adapt. Its still going to be Toskala's team & if he plays like last year, they're in trouble.

and now better upfront. true that time will tell, however. they'll need a good year from grabovski again..oohhh man i can't wait for him to visit the bell hahaha

Kessel is a great player & helps, but they are still very slim up front.

We'll see i guess, but while im happy to praise burke for his vision, I am not prepared to praise him for any accomplishments...yet.

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Burke is way overrated and I have a dislike for him. He was unable to turn the Canucks into a contender. He always used the excuse that Vancouver had a hidden cap. (so did every other Canadian team other than the Leafs) He left the Canucks in a salary mess that cost Nonis his job. He went to Anaheim and thanks to the team Murray built won the cup. He left Anaheim in a mess with a ton of free agents and up hard against the cap to take the GM spot in Toronto.

Just to show how great a guy Burke is. Peter Zezel had requested a trade to the eastern conference as his niece was dying of cancer in Toronto. The canucks were nowhere near a playoff berth. Burke traded him as far away as he could from Toronto (Anaheim). Zezel retired to spend time with family.

Burke ran his mouth about Heatley - yet a few years earlier when Pronger requested a trade out of Edmonton there was Burke to scoop him up.

With Kessel, He did just what many other Leaf GMs have done - Mortgage the future to overpay a free agent. MMW those two first rounders will be in the top 10.

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alright, so yea he's now the GM of the leafs..but i've respected this guy for years. he can make something out of nothing, great business man, and what he wants..he gets.

i know none of us want to admit this, but let's accept it, in a matter of 9 months he turned the leafs from a joke to a scary team in just about every sense of the word with the kessel deal.

he gave up 2 firsts and a 2nd for kessel, but signed 4 top prospects out of college, 3 of whom had projected rankings above any top 3-30 player in the upcoming drafts. he hardly paid a premium for a potential 50 goal scorer who is 21 years of age...and as habs fans, we all know how dynamic he is with or without savard.

i'm genuinely scared to watch this team, and haven't been since (ever?) lol. i'm just really hoping we can compete, and that our forward acquisitions don't get rocked too hard.

this guy deserves all the credit in the world for doing such an amazing job. like really, think about what he's done there. i know it sucks that it had to be the leafs of all teams, but the man himself deserves a ton of recognition.

thoughts on the toronto situation? please no ignorance

I think you've posted in the wrong place. Here you go man.

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I for one don't like Burke.

I think he's a blowhard and a bully, and he'd probably agree but take it as a compliment.

I do think he's just what Toronto needs, because the Leafs have long clung to this (false) identity as a "rough gritty" team that played "old-fashioned Canadian hockey"....of course this was mostly translated as Bryan Mc Cabe grabbing jerseys and Tie Domi acting like a primate. After the lockout, predictably, the Leafs could no longer compete.

Burke has given them some foundation for their lost goonish identity, by signing some muscle, including Colton Orr, one of the dirtiest psychos in the sport of hockey. I have no doubt that Leafs fans will love the shenanigans they'll see on the ice this year.

Are the Laffs more competitive? probably.

But the single most glaring omission is one Burke has yet to work on: between the pipes.

Toskala has really struggled. He's a smallish guy, and will have problems with Allaire's style of goaltending...he has a damaged groin that may never really be ok, and he just doesn't have the size or athletics to really challenge shooters and impose his style. Having Toskala as his starter is a huge mistake...and the "monster" is not ready for the big time.

Burke has a glut of d-men, but no real talent in nets.

Kessel can't do it all, and such a huge contract, on the strength of just one really good year, is one heck of a gamble. BUT even if Kessel turns out to be a god, the team needs a real, proven, fit goalie.

Just my 2 cents...

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On a side note does anyone think the Laffs alternate logo looks like a nazi swastika?

LaffsNazilogo.jpg

Maybe its just me :lol:

Nah, I dont think so.

It is a pretty good example of horrible design though.

I mean distorting a serifed font like that - plus the overlays - its pretty terrible use and deformity of a mediocre font to begin with. The M is expanded so much its just nasty & the intersect between the L & the T is crude & lacks visual consideration. Im actually fairly surprised - despite my dislike for them, the leafs usually have some good designers working on their behalf. This one looks like someone at staples designed it.

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I'm afraid to say the Leafs have improved quite a bit. For one moment, fellas, forget that you hate Burke and analyze the moves they (the entire org. has made). Living in Toronto, every hockey fan is bombarded with Leaf talk. Is it overblown? Sure it is, just like in other markets like Mtl.

The Kessel deal aside, do not underestimate the college acquisitions. I am not saying they're going to all become stars, but I've watched them enough now (including tonight where they were the best players on the ice) to realize he got these guys for next to nothing, and that can't hurt, regardless of how they develop. It's as though he manufactured an additional draft for them. Bozak and Stalberg are good players... Gustafson? It really doen't matter... i think he's a bit of a non-factor. If he doesn't pan out, they lost nothing... they can address goaltending later on since they're not ready to truly compete for bragging rights.

The perception among many Mtl fans and others around the league is that the Leafs can't score. In fact they had very balanced scoring last year and finished the season scoring more goals than 20 other teams. They've improved in their potential for greater offensive output over the offseason. Watch for Hagman... he's sleeper... a dandy player who can score 30 goals... I don't see their goal production going down.

Their defense is markedly improved. I watched their game tonight and a few others along the way; I hate to tell you this but Komesarek is gonna have a very goo stint with the Leafs... He and Kaberle are already gelling very well.. and he's playing as tough as nails right now..

The sleeper in that blueline mix is Beauchemin... he's a bull and a very underrated d-man... played an excllent game for them tonight and he even won a fight...

There are other things that they did that add to there rise in general. Thngs like bringing in the NHL's best goaltending coach, building a state-of-the-art facility with probably the finest training complex in the league... they've bolstered their scouting big time across Europe and NA.

Plus, they have a number of solid prospects that we don't hear much of... guys like Slaney, Gunnarrson and Stefanivich...plus the above-mentioned..

BTW, Kadri is the real deal.. he was their best player tonight and scored 2 goals... but it's how he scores... he reminds, somewhat, of Doug Gilmour for some reason... he has an edge to his game.. smallish but very fast and skilled with some sandpaper to his game... He and Kessel will be very dynamic one day..

Should be interesting for them... I think they could make the 8th spot... but either way, the franchise has made major strides and they have a bright future...

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Nah, I dont think so.

It is a pretty good example of horrible design though.

I mean distorting a serifed font like that - plus the overlays - its pretty terrible use and deformity of a mediocre font to begin with. The M is expanded so much its just nasty & the intersect between the L & the T is crude & lacks visual consideration. Im actually fairly surprised - despite my dislike for them, the leafs usually have some good designers working on their behalf. This one looks like someone at staples designed it.

I agree, it's ugly..

BTW, I doubt the Leafs were attempting to recreate the Nazi symbol given that the chair of the co. is Jewish!

I for one don't like Burke.

I think he's a blowhard and a bully, and he'd probably agree but take it as a compliment.

I do think he's just what Toronto needs, because the Leafs have long clung to this (false) identity as a "rough gritty" team that played "old-fashioned Canadian hockey"....of course this was mostly translated as Bryan Mc Cabe grabbing jerseys and Tie Domi acting like a primate. After the lockout, predictably, the Leafs could no longer compete.

Burke has given them some foundation for their lost goonish identity, by signing some muscle, including Colton Orr, one of the dirtiest psychos in the sport of hockey. I have no doubt that Leafs fans will love the shenanigans they'll see on the ice this year.

Are the Laffs more competitive? probably.

But the single most glaring omission is one Burke has yet to work on: between the pipes.

Toskala has really struggled. He's a smallish guy, and will have problems with Allaire's style of goaltending...he has a damaged groin that may never really be ok, and he just doesn't have the size or athletics to really challenge shooters and impose his style. Having Toskala as his starter is a huge mistake...and the "monster" is not ready for the big time.

Burke has a glut of d-men, but no real talent in nets.

Kessel can't do it all, and such a huge contract, on the strength of just one really good year, is one heck of a gamble. BUT even if Kessel turns out to be a god, the team needs a real, proven, fit goalie.

Just my 2 cents...

Historically speaking, the Leafs won (albeit a long time ago) on grit.. they were never a hugely telented team and the 60's teams won on grit and tenacity.. just look a the scoring leaders... can you think of any Leafs?

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true - but they also got slower. If komi plays like he did last year in place of Kubina, they didnt get better on defense. I know a lot of people are very excited about Beauchemin but I think he's nothing but overrated. First he's had injury problems, second, he's not particularly strong defensively and third - when an "offensive" defensman cant break 40 points (beauchemin's best ever was 36pts - he's only broken 30 twice) then you're in trouble. Heck, Mara has broken 40 several times. ;)

Probably.

Totally unproven. The "monster" has never played an NHL game & who knows how he will adapt. Its still going to be Toskala's team & if he plays like last year, they're in trouble.

Kessel is a great player & helps, but they are still very slim up front.

We'll see i guess, but while im happy to praise burke for his vision, I am not prepared to praise him for any accomplishments...yet.

FYI beauchemin is likely to make the Team Canada lineup for Vancouver 2010! He's an excellent defenseman... The Habs should never have given up on him...

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The problem with discussing the Leafs is that all our info comes thru a huge hype-machine that never dials itself down. "Leafs Nation" tends to believe the hype and build it until a guy who'd be a 4th liner on any other team is hailed as some future Hall of Famer.

Seriously, last year some Laffs fans on their forum actually thought Luke Schenn should be nominated for the Calder trophy.

So obviously Burke emerges here as a prophet, a guy who's got it all figured out....

As critical as we are of the Habs, it's exactly the opposite with Leafs fans.

They don't even mind that the team loses, as long as they get to see some guy on the other team get a good pounding. So Burke is a perfect fit for that.

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Like most Habs fans.....scratch that, HOCKEY fans I hate the leafs. But it is not for this reason that I dislike Bruke and think he is overrated. What has the guy really done? Won a cup? Really? Of that cup winning team, how many players did he bring in and how many where there when he started? 2 of the best defensemen of the past decade fell into his lap, and both had little to do with Bruke. One guy wanted to play with his brother, and the other's wife , who clearly has final say in taht relationship, wanted to move to sunny Cali. Last year was an indication of the team Bruke actually put together with the Ducks. A team fighting for their playoff spot. Does anyone remember the Canucks being much of a powerhouse under Bruke? Cause I sure don't.

The leafs are a scarier team to play against.....cause of the goonish Defense. Not cause they are a threat. Skate hard against Komi or Exelby, take the holding plenty, and burn them on the PP. As for offense? two 1st round picks and a 2nd round pick for Phil Kessel? Bruke does know Savard doesn't come with this guy, right? Kessel is one of these players that got overhyped because of WHO he played with. This isn't a pure goal score like an Ovie or an Iggie. He's a Ryder. Good shot, but he needs that perfect set up to be a factor, otherwise he's a non-factor....and the Leafs collection of AHL over acheivers aint' gonna cut it.

The Leafs will be a tough team to watch yoru team play against, because of fear of injury due to goonish play. But with zero transition game possible between their d and their offense, and no real answer in goal, the leafs are still a few years away from doing much of anything. and even then Bruke is gonna need more luck, like he had with the Ducks

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I'm afraid to say the Leafs have improved quite a bit. For one moment, fellas, forget that you hate Burke and analyze the moves they (the entire org. has made). Living in Toronto, every hockey fan is bombarded with Leaf talk. Is it overblown? Sure it is, just like in other markets like Mtl.

The Kessel deal aside, do not underestimate the college acquisitions. I am not saying they're going to all become stars, but I've watched them enough now (including tonight where they were the best players on the ice) to realize he got these guys for next to nothing, and that can't hurt, regardless of how they develop. It's as though he manufactured an additional draft for them. Bozak and Stalberg are good players... Gustafson? It really doen't matter... i think he's a bit of a non-factor. If he doesn't pan out, they lost nothing... they can address goaltending later on since they're not ready to truly compete for bragging rights.

First off, I don't generally 'hate' the Leafs as much as some other Habs fans, but I will say that whether it was Grabovski or something else they were starting to get under my skin last year.

As for the college prospects that Burke signed, I think there's a difference between people saying that they tend to be overvalued by the Leafs Nation Propaganda Machine and people saying that it wasn't a good move to go out and get them. I don't think they're the equivalent of top 15 draft picks as a previous poster mentioned, probably closer to mid-to-high second-rounders. Having said that, second rounders can sometimes pan out. And considering the fact that the Leafs didn't give up anything to sign them, it was definitely a good move by Burke to bring them in. That doesn't change the fact that I see them as being overvalued by a lot of fans (not you in particular).

The perception among many Mtl fans and others around the league is that the Leafs can't score. In fact they had very balanced scoring last year and finished the season scoring more goals than 20 other teams. They've improved in their potential for greater offensive output over the offseason. Watch for Hagman... he's sleeper... a dandy player who can score 30 goals... I don't see their goal production going down.

Their defense is markedly improved. I watched their game tonight and a few others along the way; I hate to tell you this but Komesarek is gonna have a very goo stint with the Leafs... He and Kaberle are already gelling very well.. and he's playing as tough as nails right now..

The sleeper in that blueline mix is Beauchemin... he's a bull and a very underrated d-man... played an excllent game for them tonight and he even won a fight...

I'm going to address both of these points at once, since I think they're related. The Leafs lost their top scoring forward last year in Antropov, but yeah, you could make a pretty good arguement that Kessel (once healthy) and some developing players should be able to make up that production.

Contrary to what you always hear on Leafs TV, though, I would actually say their biggest team weakness right now is their defense. They'll be able to protect the front of their net like nobody's business, I have no doubt of that, and their team goals against will probably be improved. But, aside from Kaberle (who is excellent, but may be traded) they have nobody who's good at moving the puck up the ice. I think the Leafs will actually miss Kubina more than anyone else from last year's team. No matter how good your forwards are, if you've got no transition game you're just not going to score very often. Ask any Montreal fan how we made out with Komisarek on the top line when Markov was injured... it was brutal.

There are other things that they did that add to there rise in general. Thngs like bringing in the NHL's best goaltending coach, building a state-of-the-art facility with probably the finest training complex in the league... they've bolstered their scouting big time across Europe and NA.

Plus, they have a number of solid prospects that we don't hear much of... guys like Slaney, Gunnarrson and Stefanivich...plus the above-mentioned..

BTW, Kadri is the real deal.. he was their best player tonight and scored 2 goals... but it's how he scores... he reminds, somewhat, of Doug Gilmour for some reason... he has an edge to his game.. smallish but very fast and skilled with some sandpaper to his game... He and Kessel will be very dynamic one day..

Should be interesting for them... I think they could make the 8th spot... but either way, the franchise has made major strides and they have a bright future...

Solid prospects are great, but really, every team's got them. What matters is how many of those prospects actually turn into good NHL players (and the numbers aren't real high). Now admittedly I don't follow the Leaf's farm system very much, but I say you can't count on a prospect until you have actually seen him play at an NHL level. Fans of the Habs have heard enough about Montreal's 'amazing prospect depth' while at the same time struggling to find a competent centre to bring up that we are starting to understand this :)

Anyways, just my opinion, but with such a defensive group of defensemen (and without enough solid two-way forwards to play more of a classic New Jersey style) I just don't see the Leafs finishing over 10th in the East. I look forward to seeing them try, though. (And hopefully to seeing them fail ;))

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:lol: Yeah, ok.

Well he did get invited to the camp, that's not to say he'll make the team (personally I don't think he will) but it can't be that ridiculous of an idea or why invite him in the first place?

Anyways, Burke is overrated. He's good at pulling off moves, but he's never shown he can build a team and make them a contender. He didn't really "build" Anaheim (he pulled off a few key moves to take a great team over the edge, but doesn't have that luxury in Toronto). And while Vancouver was a decent team for awhile, they never got close to a cup and Burke left them in pretty bad shape (only saved by Nonis's Luongo deal).

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Well he did get invited to the camp, that's not to say he'll make the team (personally I don't think he will) but it can't be that ridiculous of an idea or why invite him in the first place?

16 defensmen were invited. the Op said that beauchemin is "likely" to make the team. If he had said there's an outside chance I think we would have said "yes, there is an outside chance" but saying that he's "likely" to make the team over 10 of the following is worth a chuckle:

Bouwmeester

Boyle

Niedermayer

Pronger

Regehr

Phaneuf

Staal

Weber

Burns

Doughty

Robidas

Green

Hamhuis

Keith

Seabrook

I would certainly put him right near the bottom of that list.

Anyways, Burke is overrated. He's good at pulling off moves, but he's never shown he can build a team and make them a contender. He didn't really "build" Anaheim (he pulled off a few key moves to take a great team over the edge, but doesn't have that luxury in Toronto). And while Vancouver was a decent team for awhile, they never got close to a cup and Burke left them in pretty bad shape (only saved by Nonis's Luongo deal).

Agree completely.

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16 defensmen were invited. the Op said that beauchemin is "likely" to make the team. If he had said there's an outside chance I think we would have said "yes, there is an outside chance" but saying that he's "likely" to make the team over 10 of the following is worth a chuckle:

Bouwmeester

Boyle

Niedermayer

Pronger

Regehr

Phaneuf

Staal

Weber

Burns

Doughty

Robidas

Green

Hamhuis

Keith

Seabrook

Well it's actually 9 of them since I think 7 dmen make the team (plus one alternate which I'm not including). Factor in that there are probably going to be a few injuries in there (in 2006, of the starting 7, 2 withdrew due to injury), it isn't a ridiculous chance.

Again I don't think he will make it, but if there's a few injuries, he has a shot. I wouldn't put him on the bottom of that list (although I'm not overly familiar with all the players),

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Well it's actually 9 of them since I think 7 dmen make the team (plus one alternate which I'm not including).

Again, I still think its all in the way the OP said it - and relates to overvaluing Burke & TML:

the word used was "likely" and I most definitely wouldnt say his chances are "likely" - possible, yes - likely: no.

It would be sort of like saying Cam ward was 'likely' going to make the squad. He's a good goalie & its possible he'll make it, but certainly not "likely" over the others trying to backup Luongo.

Factor in that there are probably going to be a few injuries in there (in 2006, of the starting 7, 2 withdrew due to injury), it isn't a ridiculous chance.

Again I don't think he will make it, but if there's a few injuries, he has a shot

There will also be add ons too. You can bet at least 4 - 6 guys not on that list will be invited to camp based on their play this season.

I wouldn't put him on the bottom of that list (although I'm not overly familiar with all the players)

Id flat out put him below:

Bouwmeester

Niedermayer

Pronger

Regehr

Phaneuf

Weber

Keith

Seabrook

Burns

Boyle

Green

He may be a better allround defender than the last two, but they both bring a lot more offense & will likely rank way ahead of Beauchemin on team canada's list.

He may be on par with:

Hamhuis

Doughty

Staal

But both are way younger & if team canada is thinking of the future, they will take precedence over a 30 year old.

So, id say he has a better chance than

Robidas

In conclusion: possible, yes but a long shot.

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