Who Says Habs Are Small?

[shmitzy-11]

OK so I was reading a post from a different thread regarding all of Gainey's moves and such. This guy, who I won't mention, said how small and weak the Habs were and how he doesn't even want to know what will happen when the Habs face the big bad Leafs, made by Burke the genius.

It made me think. Every time I turn on the TV or go online this summer I have to hear about how small and crappy the Habs are and how big and awesome the Leafs are. I found it really strange because I thought – silly me – that the Habs actually got bigger and more improved but that's not what anyone wants us to believe. Well I wen to the stats myself to see just how much bigger the Leafs really are than our lowly, little Habs.

Here's what I found out from each team's official website:

Toronto Maple Leaves

Forwards — 16 listed, totaling 3,161 lbs. — 197.6 lb avg.

Defence — 8 factored, totaling 1,667 lbs. — 208.4 lb avg.

Team — 24 players, totaling 4,828 lbs. — 201.2 lb avg.

Montreal Canadiens

Forwards — 14 listed, totaling 2,863 lbs. — 204.5 lb avg.

Defence — 8 listed, totaling 1,699 lbs. — 212.4 lb avg.

Team — 22 players, totaling 4,562 lbs. — 207.4 lb avg.

Can someone explain to me how every media outlet seems to see the Habs as being smaller when they are clearly bigger than the so-called bully Leafs that everyone is supposed to be afraid of? My theory is it all stems from the fact our best players are the small ones. However, Gomez isn't really that small (5'11", 202) and all of our Big Three play like they are 30 lbs heavy, and they do it with durability. The Leafs best players are Blake and now Kessel. Both small. Neither durable in the least. And Komi is supposed to make those guys a playoff team? Only if the league's genius rule makers outlaw skating.

What is everyone's opinion on our so-called size deficiency??

[amp73]

I think the explanation is that the Canadiens top 6 forwards , the guys who are expected to log the most amount of ice time, and do the majority of the scoring are small. That is a fact

Yes we have 3rd and 4th liners who are relatively large but they aren't expected get that much ice time , unless Carbo is re hired

Then again a guy like Hal Gill compensates for Gionta and Cammi

[bailey1]

And of course the media is all "hunky dory" when they realize that the leafs have a similar situation with the height of players on their team. But, a month ago, our team is being critisized for being tooo small.

[fourtrax]

I think the explanation is that the Canadiens top 6 forwards , the guys who are expected to log the most amount of ice time, and do the majority of the scoring are small. That is a fact

Yes we have 3rd and 4th liners who are relatively large but they aren't expected get that much ice time , unless Carbo is re hired

Then again a guy like Hal Gill compensates for Gionta and Cammi

Not if he's a third-pairing D-man playing third-pairing minutes. Mara will probably play more, so he'll be the one compensating.

In terms of our top-six forwards and top-four defensemen, we're an average to small team, no getting around it. But I don't see that as a barrier to success, provided we do our best to maximize the abilities of each player, no matter how big or small he is.

[BrownSugarl]

Henri Richard - 5'7", 160lbs

Yvan Cournoyer - 5'7", 172lbs

Steve Shutt - 5'11", 185lbs

Martin St Louis - 5'9", 177lbs

I know it's comparing apples to oranges, considering the times they played/play in, but in the immortal words of Jedi Master Yoda, "Size matters not. Judge me by my size, do you?"

[kiprusoffk]

I too am sick of hearing about the "Bay Street Bullies". Living in the Toronto area, it's out of control by both the media and the fans. They have a few second-rate fighters playing in the pre-season who will be in the AHL. The only true proven fighter they have is Orr and how much of an impact will he make? We all know Komisarek and I sure am not scared about his fighting abilities. The Leaf fans all think Burke is rebuilding them into the Ducks that won the Cup, 1 huge difference though, those Ducks had Pronger, Selanne, Neidemayer,Getzlaf,Perry ,Kunitz,McDonald,Pahlsson etc. The leafs are a long way from filling out a roster like that.

[FirstStar]

So we have a few small players... Metro, Gionta, Cam, (gomez given his weight is in my books average).

We also have Mara, Gill, Lats, Moen, BGL, Hamrlik, Stewart, O'Byrne.

Then we have the average players like Markov, Lapierre, Andrei and Sergei who are 6"0 200+lbs, Gorges who plays bigger than his posted weight and height, Spacek.

I don't see what the big deal is... It's all about balance and I believe the Habs have a good balance.

[shmitzy-11]

So we have a few small players... Metro, Gionta, Cam, (gomez given his weight is in my books average).

We also have Mara, Gill, Lats, Moen, BGL, Hamrlik, Stewart, O'Byrne.

Then we have the average players like Markov, Lapierre, Andrei and Sergei who are 6"0 200+lbs, Gorges who plays bigger than his posted weight and height, Spacek.

I don't see what the big deal is... It's all about balance and I believe the Habs have a good balance.

My sentiments exact. No one will argue we have a few smaller, skilled guys but we have a pretty healthy stream of wrecking balls, who like nothing better than put people on the behinds.

[CanadianMike]

Who you calling SMURF? yo

never knew Rocket was THAT small...I have a pic inbetween the Richard brothers, but I was just thinking they shrunk as they got old.

[gracie12]

Every time I turn on the TV or go online this summer I have to hear about how small and crappy the Habs are and how big and awesome the Leafs are.

Unfortunately, this goes with the territory of being a Habs fan. Every year for the past couple of decades Ive heard what a "splash" the leafs have made & how they are going to "make noise" this year. Of course it never comes to fruition, so these days I use it as a bit of an inside joke.

Komi is supposed to make those guys a playoff team? Only if the league's genius rule makers outlaw skating.

This made me laugh

What is everyone's opinion on our so-called size deficiency??

Ive mentioned my opinion in a few other threads. I think size is overrated (both ways) and I think it has a lot more to do with how a player plays & the durability of said player.

Look at some of the most injury prone players in recent memory:

Forsberg: 6'1" - 210 lbs

Lindros: 6'4" - 240lbs

Havlat: 6'1" - 205lbs

Gaborik: 6'1" - 210lbs

Meanwhile, look at some of the little guys over the years who never seemed to get injured much:

Fleury

Gionta

Hudler

Gilmour

Shutt

etc etc etc.

We have small players, yes, but unlike some of our past small players, none are particularly injury prone & all play like they are much bigger.

[pistol-pierre]

i have to hear about the leafs every year and trust me leafs fans are the most idiotic fans in the NHL. if you look at it the leafs always play a solid game against the habs then go and loose against a team like the isles. bigger do not always make better. i dont think komi is going to save them one bad hit and his shoulder is out and so is he. we might be smaller but we have more skill players then they do. keep cheering this is going to be a great season. GO HABS GO

[HabzNation11]

theyre jealous....lool

[AK-1]

I think the explanation is that the Canadiens top 6 forwards , the guys who are expected to log the most amount of ice time, and do the majority of the scoring are small. That is a fact

Yes we have 3rd and 4th liners who are relatively large but they aren't expected get that much ice time , unless Carbo is re hired

Then again a guy like Hal Gill compensates for Gionta and Cammi

Isn't it the same situation with the Leafs? Their top line players - Blake, Grabovski & Kessel - aren't even 6ft tall. Yet, all we hear is the media raving about Brian Burke's work (see McGuire, Pierre) while constantly labeling our team as small.

[leafsbaby08]

Our small top liners like Gomez, Gionta, Cammy don't play small. They're very fast and skilled players but what makes them big is their hockey sense. They know how to protect themselves, the know how and how not to go into the corners and they have good anticipation of what is going to happen. These factors CAN outweigh the size factor.

[jst-onge]

Reporters say the Canadiens are small. Who are most reporters EX coaches, EX general managers, and Ex players. For the most part they have failed and I guess they have and certain view of what big is. For example is 6'3 big if the player backs off every time someone makes contact. Or is 5'10 205lbs big when the man has no fear and makes you play even if you get close, Besides if you skate in the middle of the ice and control the puck in the middle of the ice you do not have tobe as big in fact playing that type of game plan with a quick speedy forewards will mean the other team would have to be just as quick or they are going to take a lot of penalties and be very tried in the third period. Gainey got a little bigger on the back end and got guys who can make a good outlet pass and because of our speed big teams with no speed are going to have long nights.

[fourtrax]

Isn't it the same situation with the Leafs? Their top line players - Blake, Grabovski & Kessel - aren't even 6ft tall. Yet, all we hear is the media raving about Brian Burke's work (see McGuire, Pierre) while constantly labeling our team as small.

Great point, AK. I hadn't even thought about the Leafs' average size up front, but you're bang on.

[billy-piton]

So we have a few small players... Metro, Gionta, Cam, (gomez given his weight is in my books average).

We also have Mara, Gill, Lats, Moen, BGL, Hamrlik, Stewart, O'Byrne.

Then we have the average players like Markov, Lapierre, Andrei and Sergei who are 6"0 200+lbs, Gorges who plays bigger than his posted weight and height, Spacek.

I don't see what the big deal is... It's all about balance and I believe the Habs have a good balance.

lapierre is 6''2, just as lats, hammer, moen and stewart, so i would rather call him a big guy, than an average one

[cbarker78]

MMW our defense is bigger and meaner then I can ever remember for my lifetime.

[Rocket-1]

MMW our defense is bigger and meaner then I can ever remember for my lifetime.

How old are you?

[CanadianMike]

How old are you?

not very old I guess...

[fourtrax]

So we have a few small players... Metro, Gionta, Cam, (gomez given his weight is in my books average).

We also have Mara, Gill, Lats, Moen, BGL, Hamrlik, Stewart, O'Byrne.

Then we have the average players like Markov, Lapierre, Andrei and Sergei who are 6"0 200+lbs, Gorges who plays bigger than his posted weight and height, Spacek.

I don't see what the big deal is... It's all about balance and I believe the Habs have a good balance.

But again, it's not really that significant if 85% of our big players are third-pairing d-men or lower-line forwards who will play less minutes than the so-called smurfs.

Our top-six forwards are Gomez, Cammalleri, Gionta, AK, Plekanec, and likely Pacioretty. That's a group I'd classify as small to average.

Our top-four defensemen (IMO, though I realize this list is certainly debatable) are Markov, Hamrlik, Spacek, and Mara. I'd classify this group as average.

Guys like Latendresse, Moen, Stewart, Laraque, Gill, and O'Byrne simply aren't going to play enough minutes (barring injury) for their size to be much of a factor.

[FirstStar]

Not if he's a third-pairing D-man playing third-pairing minutes. Mara will probably play more, so he'll be the one compensating.

In terms of our top-six forwards and top-four defensemen, we're an average to small team, no getting around it. But I don't see that as a barrier to success, provided we do our best to maximize the abilities of each player, no matter how big or small he is.

I think you hit the nail on the head Weep.