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Rebuild Or Continue


SteenIsThaFuture

Should the Habs Rebuild?  

128 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the Habs Rebuild?

    • Yes
      69
    • No
      59


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With the team off to a terrible start, the farm system barren, and a lot of the young kids struggling and/or failing to progress, including first round picks like Chipchura and Fischer and those whom are struggling lik Akost and Pacioretty, it may be time for the Habs to think about taking 3 steps back to get 5 steps further.

Now I'm not a huge fan of losing for the sake of winning, but it seems at this present time that the Habs end-result may not be much different with a "kids" lineup than with the present one. Also with Markov out for so long, it may be a reason to take a step back and consider this season a write-off. So essentially a short-term rebuild would consist of dumping contracts in the minors and dealing expiring players like Mara and Plekanec etc, the latter which may not be a bad idea considering how he's playing of late, it could be a case of sell high.

I personally believe the Habs are about two and a half to three years away, they need a better defensive core and with so much money tied in their forwards and with Price needed to resign after this year too, they need to get cheap, efficient production from their back-end and that doesn't come in the form of UFA deals. It might mean getting younger and/or making some shrewd moves.

The other option is to stand pat, and hope when Markov returns the Habs for now and the future can play like a 5-7 seed we thought they would be.

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I'm going to say no. I think we should stand pat for, at least, the remainder of the season. During the off-season, depending on how we play as the year comes to a close, I would be willing to make a decision as to rebuild/no rebuild based on the final result (with Markov in the lineup). I really do think we are a better team, on paper anyway, than what we have shown on the ice. I'm no hockey aficianado, but I believe the results haven't matched the effort and skill that this team has. However tempting a rebuild would be (imagining players of Toews calibre with the Habs) I really think we have what it takes here to be a consistent 4 - 7 place team. I would be happy with that if the post-season results are better than 1st round exits. We shall see, I guess.

Finally, I think the main reason we have to consider not rebuilding right now is due to the behemoth contracts Gomez, Gionta, and Cammalleri have. Perhaps there's a market for Gionta, assuming he continues to excel, but I think we might be stuck with Gomez... And Cammalleri is the one guy I DON'T want to trade.

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I thought we did just kinda rebuild. I'm not convinced Gainey was done either. He said himself last summer he may not have a somewhat finalized team until early October. But when Markov and O'byrne went down like dominoes it may have changed some plans. I guess we'll never know but I truly would not be surprised if something else was about to come to fruition.

Anyway, I voted no and would have to go with a February time frame.

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I thought we did just kinda rebuild. I'm not convinced Gainey was done either. He said himself last summer he may not have a somewhat finalized team until early October. But when Markov and O'byrne went down like dominoes it may have changed some plans. I guess we'll never know but I truly would not be surprised if something else was about to come to fruition.

Anyway, I voted no and would have to go with a February time frame.

I agree... we are already in the process of a rebuild.... albeit off to a questinable start in terms of strategy.

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I thought we did just kinda rebuild. I'm not convinced Gainey was done either. He said himself last summer he may not have a somewhat finalized team until early October. But when Markov and O'byrne went down like dominoes it may have changed some plans. I guess we'll never know but I truly would not be surprised if something else was about to come to fruition.

Anyway, I voted no and would have to go with a February time frame.

I'm not sure if we are in a rebuild in the most general sense... Sure we rebuilt our team this off-season by acquiring new players like Gomez, Gionta, Cammalleri, Mara, Gill, Spacek, and co., but I guess when talking, "Rebuild," we're talking from the ground up... Not through free agency. Or does it matter? I assume that Moneypuck was getting at, "Should we rebuild through the draft and by bombing for a few seasons?" Perhaps he wasn't? :huh:

Anyway! ;) I agree with your assessment that we should wait on deciding. And if the time does come, I'm not sure Bob Gainey is the man to handle the management anymore.

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I think that is one of the habs bad habbits.

They dont give Some of the players time to develope.

They expect the young guys to just jump out and know the game.

One bad season shouldnt result in a trade or rebuild. And especially now,

New owner, new coach, and half a new roster. And look at the new that

we have now, they arent exactly new to the game of hockey. Give them

a bit more time and we will be back to having a number 1 team. They need

to get use to each other first

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Ahh we are 0nly 18 games into the season, not even a 1/4 ways through and your talkin shut er down and rebuild. C'mon people, wait till we have a healthy team again(well markov anyways), if we can just hold it half ways together until feb. then we will be alright, its hard to replace on of the best d men in the leauge/world, with markov we will be alright, with out him the meeh!!, not so much.

RELAX, rebuilding sucks

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I'm going to have to say 'no'. Like some people, and as hard as the start to the season has been to take, I don't feel as if what we've seen is all this Team has to offer. I like how Jennifer_Rocket put it: "the results haven't matched the effort and skill that this team has" (emphasis mine). I've probably only been able to actually watch maybe 1/2 of the games so far but, as poor as the mistakes have been, it seems like this Team really wants to win. There seemed to be a lot of lackadaisicalness (probably not a word) last year that was frustrating.

Sometimes I think we're one goal away from everything falling into place. It never happens because it seems like every possible bounce goes the wrong way this year. Let's be honest: no one has really seen the Team play much this year, on account of early injuries to key players. I, for one, am subscribing to the 'wait-and-see' approach. We're only 2 points out of 8th right now so turning things around can happen at any point and, as much as I creep closer to panic with every loss and extra-time victory, I don't think it's time to start writing things off just yet.

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With the team off to a terrible start, the farm system barren, and a lot of the young kids struggling and/or failing to progress, including first round picks like Chipchura and Fischer and those whom are struggling lik Akost and Pacioretty, it may be time for the Habs to think about taking 3 steps back to get 5 steps further.

Now I'm not a huge fan of losing for the sake of winning, but it seems at this present time that the Habs end-result may not be much different with a "kids" lineup than with the present one. Also with Markov out for so long, it may be a reason to take a step back and consider this season a write-off. So essentially a short-term rebuild would consist of dumping contracts in the minors and dealing expiring players like Mara and Plekanec etc, the latter which may not be a bad idea considering how he's playing of late, it could be a case of sell high.

I personally believe the Habs are about two and a half to three years away, they need a better defensive core and with so much money tied in their forwards and with Price needed to resign after this year too, they need to get cheap, efficient production from their back-end and that doesn't come in the form of UFA deals. It might mean getting younger and/or making some shrewd moves.

The other option is to stand pat, and hope when Markov returns the Habs for now and the future can play like a 5-7 seed we thought they would be.

By the time Markov gets back, it'll be too late to make any kind of playoff run IMO.

I vote for a rebuild now. If Markov were healthy, I'm sure we'd all feel differently, but he's not back until February. This season is likely going to be a write-off, so why not shed some contract, give the kids the reins, and think about next year? I know that's a depressing thought 18 games into the season, and maybe in a month or two I'll be singing a different tune because we're on a hot winning streak and right in the playoff mix, but in the here and now, I'd rather replenish our prospect pool and finish lower than return to the familiar embrace of mediocrity.

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By the time Markov gets back, it'll be too late to make any kind of playoff run IMO.

I vote for a rebuild now. If Markov were healthy, I'm sure we'd all feel differently, but he's not back until February. This season is likely going to be a write-off, so why not shed some contract, give the kids the reins, and think about next year? I know that's a depressing thought 18 games into the season, and maybe in a month or two I'll be singing a different tune because we're on a hot winning streak and right in the playoff mix, but in the here and now, I'd rather replenish our prospect pool and finish lower than return to the familiar embrace of mediocrity.

But what if Markov comes back and then team looks good? Obviously not 1st place good, but what about 5th - 6th place good. Aren't you a little curious to see what this team can offer? I mean, to consider tearing it all apart now would be pulling the plug pretty quickly on the new group. I think changes are necessary, but I don't think another overhaul is what we need before taking the time to see where we end up after 70 games.

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I'm going to have to say 'no'. Like some people, and as hard as the start to the season has been to take, I don't feel as if what we've seen is all this Team has to offer. I like how Jennifer_Rocket put it: "the results haven't matched the effort and skill that this team has" (emphasis mine). I've probably only been able to actually watch maybe 1/2 of the games so far but, as poor as the mistakes have been, it seems like this Team really wants to win. There seemed to be a lot of lackadaisicalness (probably not a word) last year that was frustrating.

Sometimes I think we're one goal away from everything falling into place. It never happens because it seems like every possible bounce goes the wrong way this year. Let's be honest: no one has really seen the Team play much this year, on account of early injuries to key players. I, for one, am subscribing to the 'wait-and-see' approach. We're only 2 points out of 8th right now so turning things around can happen at any point and, as much as I creep closer to panic with every loss and extra-time victory, I don't think it's time to start writing things off just yet.

+1. :D

Agree, 100%. I want to see what the team can offer with Markov in the lineup, and with O'B learning another year of D. I think changes can be implemented without rebuilding the roster. ie. Firing Bob Gainey, and trying to trade some of our slowly developing prospects for a top-6 forward. I'm not talking superstar calibre, but someone we could possibly take a chance on. Dustin Penner 2008-2009 style guy. Someone with SIZE!

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But what if Markov comes back and then team looks good? Obviously not 1st place good, but what about 5th - 6th place good. Aren't you a little curious to see what this team can offer? I mean, to consider tearing it all apart now would be pulling the plug pretty quickly on the new group. I think changes are necessary, but I don't think another overhaul is what we need before taking the time to see where we end up after 70 games.

When Markov comes back, I don't think we'll be in the playoff picture. He is simply out for too long for this season to be salvageable. That's just my opinion, though. And even when Markov does come back, he'll have been on the shelf for over four months ... after having played 1.5 regular-season games, a handful of exhibition games, and then a summer of inactivity following his 08-09 injury. He'll have a ton of rust on him and will need even more time to regain his game shape and edge, and this team just isn't good enough to keep things together while we wait for him.

My idea of a rebuild isn't a total overhaul, BTW. It's more in line with MP's approach: deal pending UFAs, bury albatross contracts in the minors (*cough cough* Laraque *cough cough*), and give our D prospects a lot of valuable playing time so that next season, we can squeeze more out of them for less dollars than we'd otherwise spend on free agents.

Trade: Mara, Plekanec, Metro (the perfect contracts for playoff contenders -- cheap and short term)

Waive: Laraque, MAB, Gill (assign to Hamilton post-haste!)

Promote: Belle, Carle, O'Byrne (let's get our next generation of talent on the road to fulfilling their potential ASAP)

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The time to start a rebuild was last summer.

Right now we have all these huge contracts we probably can't get rid of, plus after the number of changes we made you can't just give up on the new group after 20 games. Like it or not, Gainey's made the chances of a true rebuild slim for a few years.

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When Markov comes back, I don't think we'll be in the playoff picture. He is simply out for too long for this season to be salvageable. That's just my opinion, though. And even when Markov does come back, he'll have been on the shelf for over four months ... after having played 1.5 regular-season games, a handful of exhibition games, and then a summer of inactivity following his 08-09 injury. He'll have a ton of rust on him and will need even more time to regain his game shape and edge, and this team just isn't good enough to keep things together while we wait for him.

My idea of a rebuild isn't a total overhaul, BTW. It's more in line with MP's approach: deal pending UFAs, bury albatross contracts in the minors (*cough cough* Laraque *cough cough*), and give our D prospects a lot of valuable playing time so that next season, we can squeeze more out of them for less dollars than we'd otherwise spend on free agents.

Trade: Mara, Plekanec, Metro (the perfect contracts for playoff contenders -- cheap and short term)

Waive: Laraque, MAB, Gill (assign to Hamilton post-haste!)

Promote: Belle, Carle, O'Byrne (let's get our next generation of talent on the road to fulfilling their potential ASAP)

Understood. However, I disagree that Markov's return for this season is not salvageable. We've been playing just shy of .500 hockey and if we win the next two on the road we're still very much in the picture for 8th place. I don't think Markov's return is LIKELY to be heroic, but there's a chance we could be a better team by 2 or 3 positions in the standings with him! ;)

I agree with some of what you're saying. Burying Laraque in the minors, giving playing time to the kids (Carle), and trying to obtain draft choices for pending UFAs (something I was praying we would do with Kovalev, Komisarek, and co. last season :( ).

In all honesty, though. I think we are one top-6 winger and Markov + O'B's development away from being a decent hockey team. I'm not sure if you would find that dellusional, but I think that's realistic. We could be a 5th - 6th place team with POTENTIAL to get past the 2nd round with some time.

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Whoa, you know things are dire when Moneypuck is putting a rebuild on the table. :P :P

But you know he's just waiting to dive into the fray and say he wouldn't rebuild. :lol::P

Well like I said in my OP, I don't see how this current team would be significantly better in the lower roles, such as 2nd-4th lines and 2nd-3rd pairings on D at this time with kids or the signed vets, so for a future perspective. Like it may be a matter of a couple of wins, but nothing substantial IMO and that's why I feel it would be better to go the developmental route.

My stance on rebuild that most people put on the table is that's in a terrible financial move (unless everything you do hits) and you can't just tank and tada everything is fixed. Carolina got Staal, but where would they have been without Ward, Brindy, Whitney etc. Boston got Kessel, but they needed Chara, Savard, Thomas, Krejci, Lucic, Bergeron, Ryder etc. Philly has JVR, but they also needed Timmo, Carter, Richards, etc.

I'm not against taking a step back, I just think it has to be done through the proper avenue, you won't win just by hitting on high first round picks/tanking, which it itself is a risk and may not pan out, it's the entire organazation that has to be built up properly. There is a very large difference between tanking and a rebuild.

Also to those who said we rebuilt already, not really, the core may have changed but the overall strength of the organzation did not. The stream of young, cheap talent remained stagnant and that is the lifeblood of a franchise. Replacing Koivu with Gomez and Kovy with Cammy is not a rebuild because the organazation still is unsupprted for the future as much as it was last year.

EDIT: Also, I'm not advocating a blow it all up, maybe a rebuild of a lesser degree.

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Well like I said in my OP, I don't see how this current team would be significantly better in the lower roles, such as 2nd-4th lines and 2nd-3rd pairings on D at this time with kids or the signed vets, so for a future perspective. Like it may be a matter of a couple of wins, but nothing substantial IMO and that's why I feel it would be better to go the developmental route.

My stance on rebuild that most people put on the table is that's in a terrible financial move (unless everything you do hits) and you can't just tank and tada everything is fixed. Carolina got Staal, but where would they have been without Ward, Brindy, Whitney etc. Boston got Kessel, but they needed Chara, Savard, Thomas, Krejci, Lucic, Bergeron, Ryder etc. Philly has JVR, but they also needed Timmo, Carter, Richards, etc.

I'm not against taking a step back, I just think it has to be done through the proper avenue, you won't win just by hitting on high first round picks/tanking, which it itself is a risk and may not pan out, it's the entire organazation that has to be built up properly. There is a very large difference between tanking and a rebuild.

Also to those who said we rebuilt already, not really, the core may have changed but the overall strength of the organzation did not. The stream of young, cheap talent remained stagnant and that is the lifeblood of a franchise. Replacing Koivu with Gomez and Kovy with Cammy is not a rebuild because the organazation still is unsupprted for the future as much as it was last year.

Curiously, would you be in favour of a new general manager taking the reigns and handling the organization's path (whatever that may be) for the next 3 or 4 years?

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