catt-_mtlc Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 I was listening to the Team 990 and Tony Marinaro, he raised an interesting question. Would you accept a rebuild if it meant finishing last or in the bottom 5 for a few years. Would you accept a Habs team finishing in the cellar in order to build a contender. I appolgise if this thread is in the wrong place or the question has as already been asked. I was just curious to know what everyone thought about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteenIsThaFuture Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 I wouldn't accept it personally because I don't think its neccesary. A rebuild in that kind of term is something you do when you're completely depleted of assets. The Habs are not in that situation, a move/break here or there and they could be a 4-6th seed team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs_AK27 Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 I wouldn't accept it personally because I don't think its neccesary. A rebuild in that kind of term is something you do when you're completely depleted of assets. The Habs are not in that situation, a move/break here or there and they could be a 4-6th seed team. yeah but thats the same story every year. enough is enough already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiLla Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 yeah but thats the same story every year. enough is enough already. And that rebuild absolutely guarantees you that it will never be like that again? Highly unrealistic. I'm with Moneypuck on that one, why should I 'accept' a rebuild if it's not needed? You basically accept a rebuild when your team flat out sucks and you've got virtually nothing to work with, i.e. the Leafs after Sundin walked. We've got quite a few cornerstones in place already, we need to make the next step, not start all over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteenIsThaFuture Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 yeah but thats the same story every year. enough is enough already. Yes but tanking for 3-5 years doesn't guarantee anything. Chicago tanked for years before they finally hit on a few picks (one playoff appearance from 1998-2008). Picks don't pan out, depth isn't aquired, injuries, things happen etc. Tanking does increase the chances of doing better, but it's by no mean any guarantee and the Pittsburghs of the world have put a misconception of how hard a full-fledged rebuild is to do such as what the Islanders are trying to do with one post-lockout playoff appearance and no contender on the horizon for some time. The Kings no playoffs since 2002 and they're only 5th in the West now. You are essentially pissing away 5+ years and putting a crap product on the ice for a marginally larger chance of being a competetitor after that timespan. A full out rebuild is extremely hard, time-consuming and complicated. It is by no means a sure thing and exteremly overrated unless absolutely neccesary which it is not at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QbGamer Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Should we tank this season. YES..... < 28% of making the playoffs, our #1 goalscorer injured. Ak injured. our sopposive #1 goalie has won something like 10 games. go for that better pick, there is always next season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozweego Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 The only thing that the Habs need to rebuild, is the front office!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortwinkler Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Another rebuild? Isn't that what they've been doing since about 1995? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catt-_mtlc Posted February 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Another rebuild? Isn't that what they've been doing since about 1995? Basically yes but what if we try a different approach? What if we try selling our off overpriced assets, give the young kids a chance in the NHL and possibly finish in the cellar? I'd grin and bear it for a few years if it would give us a contending team and possibly a cup in a few years. I'm so sick of the patch jobs and bandaids so that we can sell out the Bell Center every game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gracie12 Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 I wouldn't accept it personally because I don't think its neccesary. A rebuild in that kind of term is something you do when you're completely depleted of assets. The Habs are not in that situation, a move/break here or there and they could be a 4-6th seed team. I tend to agree. I personally dont have a problem with a true rebuild...if its necessary. At this point, Im not sure it is. Most of the time when teams rebuild they do not have Markov, Cammy, Gionta, Gomez, AK, Pouliot, Price, Halak, Hamrlik etc on their roster. This is a solid core. The problem, in today's NHL is that when you look at our "core" you realize what w'ere really missing is that one key gamebreaker: Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, Datsyuk, etc. We have no one like this & it is nigh impossible to trade for one. So how do you get your gamebreaker? You draft him....which makes most teams, fans, media think: Better tank & get that #1 pick, but look back over the years - no every elite player is drafted in the top 3. We need better drafting (Right now we draft very "good" but mostly 'safe' - we need to take some calculated risks) and we certainly appear to need better development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiprusoffk Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 i'D like to think we have the cornerstones in place but I just don't see them. Kostitsyns??meh....Price (not seeing that yet).....Markov(will be on the decline)...Gomez Gionta???(nah)....Obyrne/Weber(not top 2 D)..... I see 1 impact player on the horizon and thats Subban and hes some years away from that as well. omg i just depressed myself...i better stop. How does Gainey have his job still??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gracie12 Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Another rebuild? Isn't that what they've been doing since about 1995? No. We havent done this properly, thats the problem. Bandaid moves & trades for washed up talent is not really a rebuild, its just a lateral re-face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteenIsThaFuture Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 I tend to agree. I personally dont have a problem with a true rebuild...if its necessary. At this point, Im not sure it is. Most of the time when teams rebuild they do not have Markov, Cammy, Gionta, Gomez, AK, Pouliot, Price, Halak, Hamrlik etc on their roster. This is a solid core. The problem, in today's NHL is that when you look at our "core" you realize what w'ere really missing is that one key gamebreaker: Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, Datsyuk, etc. We have no one like this & it is nigh impossible to trade for one. So how do you get your gamebreaker? You draft him....which makes most teams, fans, media think: Better tank & get that #1 pick, but look back over the years - no every elite player is drafted in the top 3. We need better drafting (Right now we draft very "good" but mostly 'safe' - we need to take some calculated risks) and we certainly appear to need better development. I'd argue Markov is somewhat of a gamebreaker and Price in 2-3 years could be that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QbGamer Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Markov is far from being a game breaker.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bell-Centre-Hotdog Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 I support rebuilding the team ... but I think we need a different architect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteenIsThaFuture Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Markov is far from being a game breaker.. Just because he doesn't make highlight reel plays doesn't make him a top-end player. He is consistently a top 10 defenseman in the NHL the last few years, he does it quietly but I can't believe anyone here still questions the effect he has on the team at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocu-canadian Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 No not at all!! Unacceptable. As the most storied franchise in the NHL, we have been "rebuilding" since the 1993 Cup win. Unless I am forgetting a year, we have not been to the Conference Final since 1993.. 17 years and still rebuilding?? ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruuvimeisseli Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 I believe that the habs should suck this year and next year, trade away vets like Markov, Gionta, Metropolit etc..., let the youth play and make a coaching change + staff change like GM. We don't need a full rebuild like Pitsburg, 1) we need a prospect with star potential, Taylor Hall/Tyler Senquin. 2) Young defense don't sign players like Gill, Spacek let Weber and O'bryne play instead. 3) A run and gun system (Chicago) not the classic trap (New Jersey)or what ever junk were using. 4) Real role player like Moen but younger use Stewart, Conboy grinders that can skate and are physical. I think the poll should have 3 options. Yes, full rebuild. No, our team is underrated. Yes but not a full rebuild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leafs_rock_go_mccabe Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 I would definitely tolerate another G.M. coming in here and destroying things. I don't mind the idea of starting over because I don't think Gainey ever put together a good team. We had some decent teams (2006-2007 was an anomoly), but he never really got to make a BIG decision until he gave us Gomez, Gionta, Gill, Mara, Spacek, and Cammalleri. Which basically screws us for trying a rebuild. We're now officially good enough to finish 7th - 11th for the next 4 or 5 years. YAY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawker_mtl Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 I don't want to rebuild. I think we still have quality players on this team, and we had quality players last year too. My biggest disappointment this year is despite hiring Jacques Martin, we still have no system to speak of. Hockey is a team game first and foremost, and without a system it doesn't matter who you have for players. Martin said at the start of this year that this team would be a hard-working, hard forechecking team. That just hasn't been the case at all. If we actually worked hard the majority of the time we would at least be able to draw penalties, let our PP go to work, score some goals and take some pressure of our D and our goalies. At the very minimum I was expecting a defensive system makeover with Martin, but we haven't improved in that aspect either when compared to last year. I say no to a rebuild, at least until we can see these players playing a good systematic team game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChitownHabby Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Tough question. In theory it sounds good, but I really look forward to watching the games in the hopes that the Habs will surprise me, play well and win. With a depleted roster and my busy schedule I'd definitely stop watching knowing they'd lose. It's not bandwagon but just reality if we were the Hurricanes right now, I'd find it hard to watch nightly. I think there are key elements in place and some on the horizon that make a full rebuild extreme. I think we can now officially tank this season and get a top 5 draft pick, while dumping salary this offeseason and trade deadline to chase Kovalchuk. That's it that's all. If we needed to trade K bros, Price, Hamrlik and Plekanec in order to sign and trade for Kovalchuk I would do that and consider that our rebuild. Draft picks often turn into Alex Daigle more often than Alex Ovechkin. In the modern NHL turning over the roster is possible quickly as long as you have movable assets which we have. So, my convuluted answer is this current roster needs to be rebuilt but I don't think last place for 3 seasons is tolerable or necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooch-a-mania Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 ok..I really do think we r only a few players away for a good team. We have had a bad run on injury this year for sure. But I do think if we make a move for 1 def and on 1-2 forward just might do it. and I hope we do. I am ot good with names and contract and bla bla bla.. but if Tor and Calg can make those moves.. we can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmerpuck Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 No rebuild for me. What I would like is for the present GM or future GM to get a coach who is more offensively minded. I can hardly watch anymore. I will keep watching because I don't place most of the blame on the players on the ice for the little predicament this team is in. And I don't consider Markov a gamebreaker either. If he steps up to the plate and leads this team on a winning streak going into the Olympic break I will reconsider. To be a gamebreaker I think you need to perform under pressure too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gracie12 Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Just because he doesn't make highlight reel plays doesn't make him a top-end player. He is consistently a top 10 defenseman in the NHL the last few years, he does it quietly but I can't believe anyone here still questions the effect he has on the team at this point. True, good point. Markov is a gamebreaker...but a more subtle one: He's good both ends & scores 60+ pts a year, certainly elite - but is that on par with 130+pts from a Malkin et al? Im not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteenIsThaFuture Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 True, good point. Markov is a gamebreaker...but a more subtle one: He's good both ends & scores 60+ pts a year, certainly elite - but is that on par with 130+pts from a Malkin et al? Im not sure. Do you want me to get into player values statistics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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